Hello, I am new to the next metagame, it looked interesting , so i decided to start posting here.
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Gen-NEXT development thread
- Thread starter Zarel
- Start date
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Question but, do Latios and Latias actually have abilities in Gen NEXT? The document detailing the changes doesn't actually list what abilities those two have in place of the original Levitate. I'd say Latias should get Illusion for flavour reasons, but I'd probably be told "we don't buff high-OU mons except in special cases" along with "that's OP".
Also, an idea I had for Healer since I noticed someone discussing it way earlier in the thread and see no references to it in the document:
Healer: On switch-out, this Pokémon cures the status conditions of all active allies, including the Pokémon that switches in to replace it.
Also, an idea I had for Healer since I noticed someone discussing it way earlier in the thread and see no references to it in the document:
Healer: On switch-out, this Pokémon cures the status conditions of all active allies, including the Pokémon that switches in to replace it.
How about Karate Chop or any Karate based attacks for Sawk's signature? Here's mine;
Sawk: Karate Chop (40 or 50 BP, 100% Accuracy, critical hit garenteed)
This guy needs serious buff like Throh.
Sawk: Karate Chop (40 or 50 BP, 100% Accuracy, critical hit garenteed)
This guy needs serious buff like Throh.
That translates into 60 and 75 BP respectively. I think 60 BP before the crit is better, effectively a Storm Throw clone.
Sound workable but clones are clones, so maybe instand of crit garenteed, it have 30% chance to lower target's Defense by two stages. It can combines well with it's Mold Breaker so he can slay off Rhyperior and others Physical Walls' Defense without having SE weakened or anything else, depended on their Ability, but only by a good chance and can still be stung by Ferrothorn.
Format:
Sawk: Karate Chop (Between 60 to 75 BP depended on what mods would say, 100% Acc, 30% chance to lower foe's Defense by 2 stages)
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mold breaker doesn't stop iron barbs
Thank you for the remark. :)
Also, change for the Metronome;
Metronome can now summon any moves except of Chatter, Sketch and Struggle, and gets a +7 priority but user delays it's move until it reached it's respective Priority Bracket, unless if it is Pursuit against the switching target. Also, gives a X1.33 boost to weak moves at 60 or under like Aqua Jet and Karate Chop (unless if the latter one will receive changes in this metagame if the Sawk Signature is accepted).
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Way too complicated, no. We're also not looking to add even more random elements into being a big part of the metagame.
I suppose you're right. Drop off the Metronome change. Sorry!
Edit: Moody should not touch evasioness and accuracy, only two random stats are touched, and will only occurs once.
- Sawk's Karate Chop (yeah I already nominated this but I changes the effect to not making it from being Persain's Slash rip-off): 70 BP, 100% acc., 15 PPs, raise user's Speed by one stage from 50% chance. Justification: Sawk is based from karate and this move needs to be acceptable.
- Gothitelle's Future Sight: 120 BP, 100% Acc., 5 PPs, now strike just at the next turn after use, instand of the two next turns. Justification: Gothitelle makes foresight by using psychic power on stars, which later caused a serious distortion which the attack would came from.
- Hypno's Dream Eater: 50 BP, 100% Acc, 10 PPs, now can hit even if the foe is not asleep but Base Power can becomes 100 before all damage calculations. Justification: Hypno specializes on dreams and about sleeping, and we can daydream, so why Dream Eater cannot work on an active foe?
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No change to already very viable OU mons, so basically all of your suggestions bar Snorlax and maybe Aerodactyl are invalid.
Aerodactyl was the one I was stressing the most.
A pair of ideas:
1) Make Unnerve grant Embargo on switch-in, preventing held items from working altogether (In another sense, it gives the opposing Pokemon Klutz in addition to its other ability)
Unnerve is a dead ability at the moment; this gives Unnerve the potential to be quite powerful, especially against Choice users. Since several pokemon with Unnerve get Volt Switch/U-Turn, they become wonderful little pests (in a good way). It also fits in spirit and flavor: the opposing Pokemon becomes too nervous to use its item. A few Pokemon who might like it:
The Pokemon that currently have Motor Drive are all in NU, and this ability isn't doing much for them at the moment. In a sense, this turns Electric type moves into Power-Up Punch for speed. It also resembles Speed Boost, but the caveat that you have to hit with an Electric move means that it's significantly harder to find the right opportunity to use. It's important that the move should have to connect, since it'd be pretty unfair to be able to still gain speed when your opponent switches in an electric-immune check.
This buff would primarily help Electivire, whose middling speed holds it back. This version of Motor Drive gives it the potential to generate the momentum to sweep with its great attack and solid coverage. It's still countered by walls like Weezing and Rhyperior, who can take hits from unboosted physical attackers all day long. Emolga would also enjoy the potential to shoot off Charge Beam and follow up with Baton Pass, allowing it to support the team like a Quiver Dancer.
1) Make Unnerve grant Embargo on switch-in, preventing held items from working altogether (In another sense, it gives the opposing Pokemon Klutz in addition to its other ability)
Unnerve is a dead ability at the moment; this gives Unnerve the potential to be quite powerful, especially against Choice users. Since several pokemon with Unnerve get Volt Switch/U-Turn, they become wonderful little pests (in a good way). It also fits in spirit and flavor: the opposing Pokemon becomes too nervous to use its item. A few Pokemon who might like it:
- Vespiquen: Vespiquen currently has no useful ability. With respectable bulk and recovery, it could function as a great pivot while hobbling opposing Pokemon that rely on their item.
- Galvantula: Volt Switch lets it get out after debuffing. Timed well, it can also take out Scarfers.
- Masquerain: A nice alternative to Intimidate to help it support the team.
- Aerodactyl: This would help more utility-oriented builds harry the opponent. It would also let you take out the opponent's item before you Mega-evolve.
- Tyranitar: Since Tyranitar is already OU, this is problematic. However, the special bulk and ability to shut down weather that Tyranitar gets from Sand Stream is significant enough that this doesn't seem like a buff to me, though it could be a viable alternative.
The Pokemon that currently have Motor Drive are all in NU, and this ability isn't doing much for them at the moment. In a sense, this turns Electric type moves into Power-Up Punch for speed. It also resembles Speed Boost, but the caveat that you have to hit with an Electric move means that it's significantly harder to find the right opportunity to use. It's important that the move should have to connect, since it'd be pretty unfair to be able to still gain speed when your opponent switches in an electric-immune check.
This buff would primarily help Electivire, whose middling speed holds it back. This version of Motor Drive gives it the potential to generate the momentum to sweep with its great attack and solid coverage. It's still countered by walls like Weezing and Rhyperior, who can take hits from unboosted physical attackers all day long. Emolga would also enjoy the potential to shoot off Charge Beam and follow up with Baton Pass, allowing it to support the team like a Quiver Dancer.
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In case this hasn't already been said, stat increases HAVE happened, usually only by 10 points total in only one stat, though Pika got 10 in two stats. Also, Zapdos' Hidden Ability was changed, but it was never released beforehand, so any Pokemon with an unreleased Hidden ability could be worked with.
Since Vital Throw is a delayed attack (negative priority under zero), but that never misses in general, I suggest to give 90/100 Base Power instand of the usual 80 BP so it can be properly used by bulky Fighting Pokémon like Throh.
Another Fighting Move that needs to be buffed is Brick Break. Now instand of 75 BP, it becomes 80 BP (this is still a difference) and raises damage by 50% when breaking not only Reflect and Light Screen, but also Safeguard and Magic Coat effects and disactivate some defensive Abilities like Shell Armor, Fur Coat and Sturdy (before the damage calculation).
Another Fighting Move that needs to be buffed is Brick Break. Now instand of 75 BP, it becomes 80 BP (this is still a difference) and raises damage by 50% when breaking not only Reflect and Light Screen, but also Safeguard and Magic Coat effects and disactivate some defensive Abilities like Shell Armor, Fur Coat and Sturdy (before the damage calculation).
that would be cool, but the 50% boost sounds unnecessary.
Have you thought about adding electric orb(paralyzing holder just like tolic orb)? I find it strange that there is no such item in original games and it could provide quite risky alternative for guts and quick feet users.
How far this has gone in ~2 1/3 years. Stall effectively controls the meta now,Zarel said:
MegaBro and Chansey synergize amazingly well as a core for stall and very difficult to counter; as far as I know,there's exactly one major check - Keldeo. The stall capabilities of the meta overwhelm the offensive capabilities, and with weather nerf'd, no one really does weather anymore either. Time to nerf the defensive or buff offensive mons. I've made a stall team based on this core to great success,with a 13-0 w/l ratio right now. It made mstp1 quit all 5 times he played against it, mostly because of slowbro.
kekbro (Slowbro) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Toxic/Magic Coat
The first part of the core of my team. This thing comes in to wall any physical attacks that come through. In a pinch, if they predict and switch into their special attacker, not allowing you to mega safely, you can switch out with Regenerator healing you from hazards. This slowbro is maximum physical bulk, with calm mind able to buff its special defense with proper set up time. 4 hp evs for speed creeping. Calm mind for raising sp.atk and sp.def. Scald for burn chance and STAB, slack off for recovery. The last move slot is for magic coat or toxic. If you worry about other pokes using toxic or taunt, magic coat is incredibly useful for bouncing it back to the opponent. Alternatively, slowbro can use toxic as another way to stall out the opponent. A major threat to it is Hydreigon, which literally always comes in to try to kill it. However,if you manage to set up at +2 or more, it should be safe.
Pink Blob of Doom (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
The other part of the core of my team. Aromatherapy for medic purposes, especially considering the 3 resters on the team. Toxic to stall, Seismic Toss to deal some damage. Soft-boiled for recovery. This thing has maximum special bulk to take in special attacks, with 4 speed for speed creeping. Beware Keldeo, who will always use secret sword.
**ckle (Shuckle) @ Stick
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk / null SpA
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rest
- Knock Off
Shuckle was always a scary tank with its insane defensive stats
Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Rest
I try to use this sparingly, because it isn't exactly the best tank. However, it is a useful spinner and walls pesky electric types. Filter helps it survive, and rapid spin removes setup. Stealth rock to make switches more dangerous for the opponent (which they'll end up doing often to deal significant damage to megabro/chansey), toxic to slowly deal damage, rest for recovery.
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
A standard physical tank renowned for its excellent typing, Skarmory is a very useful physical tank when slowbro can't do it safely. SR for previously listed reasons, roost for recovery, whirlwind to phaze, defog when the opponent's set up hazards on my side. EV'd for powerful physical bulk to take less damage than they will when they hit the rocky helmet :)
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest
- Curse
- Will-o-Wisp
No one really expects cofagrigus in NEXT, but it is incredibly useful. My major counter to Keldeo, it can set up toxic spikes, burn opponents, and nullify their abilities if they contact. WoW to cripple physical attackers, toxic spikes to get free toxic on opponent switch-ins, rest for recovery, and curse to deal heavy damage to opponents. It is usually my lead if they do not have keldeo (which is surprisingly often).
kekbro (Slowbro) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Toxic
- Slack Off
Pink Blob of Doom (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
Shuckle @ Stick
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk / null SpA
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rest
- Knock Off
Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Rest
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest
- Curse
- Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Toxic
- Slack Off
Pink Blob of Doom (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
Shuckle @ Stick
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk / null SpA
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Rest
- Knock Off
Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Rest
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest
- Curse
- Will-O-Wisp
We must take action before stall becomes the meta. I'd say buff some offensive capabilities to help counter stall.
anyway,that's my input,hoping this thread will revive again too n_n
and please,dont use my own team against me :)
Sadly NEXT is dead. The room us gone, thus eliminating the main location of theorymon discussion along with debating potential changes. However the challenge format remains. That being said as a response to your post:
Uhm Nasty Plot knock off Thundy is also a major check to both mega bro and chansey.
Toxic spikes as well. So is proper double switching and pivoting. VoltTurn comps also put immense pressure on you. Sure you can bring claydol into rotom but then you eat hydro pumps a ton (which I guess are filtered out but eventually you'll be forced to rest and sacrifice momentum.)
Taunt NP lorb thundurus also does a great deal. Gets boosts on chansey. Destroys megabro and skarmory. Probably beats cofag too though I doubt it's a OHKo even with rocks.
Also SD mega blaziken looks like it utterly destroys this team. SD blitz hjk and knock off obliterate a ton of members. Though sending in skarmory to die does pretty much ruin him due to recoil.
Same with SD lum or SD lorb bisharp who also is a major threat to chansey and megabro.
Or a bit rarer but SD lorb blaziken which hits harder than mega albeit at an even lower lasting time.
CM mega sable also looks like it poses an issue for this team.
And if the blaziken team has a wish passer for him it's a wrap.
Bulky DD roost zard X looks like it demolishes you too.
tl; dr stall isn't dominant at all, in fact with megamence legal offense is the best thing in NEXT imo. Stall is barely cutting it in OU.
Uhm Nasty Plot knock off Thundy is also a major check to both mega bro and chansey.
Toxic spikes as well. So is proper double switching and pivoting. VoltTurn comps also put immense pressure on you. Sure you can bring claydol into rotom but then you eat hydro pumps a ton (which I guess are filtered out but eventually you'll be forced to rest and sacrifice momentum.)
Taunt NP lorb thundurus also does a great deal. Gets boosts on chansey. Destroys megabro and skarmory. Probably beats cofag too though I doubt it's a OHKo even with rocks.
Also SD mega blaziken looks like it utterly destroys this team. SD blitz hjk and knock off obliterate a ton of members. Though sending in skarmory to die does pretty much ruin him due to recoil.
Same with SD lum or SD lorb bisharp who also is a major threat to chansey and megabro.
Or a bit rarer but SD lorb blaziken which hits harder than mega albeit at an even lower lasting time.
CM mega sable also looks like it poses an issue for this team.
And if the blaziken team has a wish passer for him it's a wrap.
Bulky DD roost zard X looks like it demolishes you too.
tl; dr stall isn't dominant at all, in fact with megamence legal offense is the best thing in NEXT imo. Stall is barely cutting it in OU.
yes,sadly,the room is gone
Thundy gets walled by shuckle.
SD mega blaziken still loses to megabro, it's been against it several times
seen toxic spikes,can spin/defog and chansey can aroma.
cofagrigus can curse/prev. set up toxic spikes,threatening megableye. shuckle also walls
zard x rekt by slowbro mega.
anything else?
Aroma has next to no PP. And you're playing stall so the match will go a while and you'll run out. Toxic spikes can be set again.
And how does mega blaziken lose to mega bro? I don't know calcs myself, but +2 knock off doesn't scare him? What about after rocks? And as neutral.effective scald unboosted on megabro osnt that scary. Bulky DD zard can easily set up again. Then it can wisp you and spam claw.
New threat - the SpD bulk up tflame set, though it probably loses to megabro - still a major threat if paired with magnezone for skarmory.
What does +2 lorb thunderbolt do to shuckle? Assume rocks are up too. I can't imagine it eats it up with delight.
I'll concede on cofag ruining sableye, didn't think of that. Does shuckle still wall mega sableye at +6??
Sounds like slowbro has it's work cut out if you're relying on it to check so many things. And even barring toxic spikes, if it gets toxic'd by something else it's a ticking clock that forces you to swap out and later aroma.
More than all of that, DD mega salamence really destroys everything apart from cofag (curse owns it if we count rocks damage and any hit it takes). And unless slowbro gets a burn, I think it's 2HKOd by +1 frustration after rocks. Comes in on the boost. Now the cool part is mence can actually substitute here and your scald won't even break it. Then it boosts more and ends the game.
EDIT:
Also CM MG clef with flamethrower nearly dismantles you too. Ofc cofag can curse it on death but even that is just a one time forced switch. Your best option is to immediately bring in slowbro and win the CM war, which is shaky at best. Because otherwise it demolishes the rest of your team.
And how does mega blaziken lose to mega bro? I don't know calcs myself, but +2 knock off doesn't scare him? What about after rocks? And as neutral.effective scald unboosted on megabro osnt that scary. Bulky DD zard can easily set up again. Then it can wisp you and spam claw.
New threat - the SpD bulk up tflame set, though it probably loses to megabro - still a major threat if paired with magnezone for skarmory.
What does +2 lorb thunderbolt do to shuckle? Assume rocks are up too. I can't imagine it eats it up with delight.
I'll concede on cofag ruining sableye, didn't think of that. Does shuckle still wall mega sableye at +6??
Sounds like slowbro has it's work cut out if you're relying on it to check so many things. And even barring toxic spikes, if it gets toxic'd by something else it's a ticking clock that forces you to swap out and later aroma.
More than all of that, DD mega salamence really destroys everything apart from cofag (curse owns it if we count rocks damage and any hit it takes). And unless slowbro gets a burn, I think it's 2HKOd by +1 frustration after rocks. Comes in on the boost. Now the cool part is mence can actually substitute here and your scald won't even break it. Then it boosts more and ends the game.
EDIT:
Also CM MG clef with flamethrower nearly dismantles you too. Ofc cofag can curse it on death but even that is just a one time forced switch. Your best option is to immediately bring in slowbro and win the CM war, which is shaky at best. Because otherwise it demolishes the rest of your team.
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