Gen-NEXT development thread

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Actually, now that I think about it, isn't there already a pure Electric-type Pokemon that's blisteringly fast, stronger than Jolteon, looks like a canine, and has Intimidate? I think it's a Mega Evolution.
 
The best ability for the dogs is Mold Breaker imo, as each of their attacks has an ability that's immune to their STAB. Plus its cool
 
Dry Paratroopa said:
Actually, now that I think about it, isn't there already a pure Electric-type Pokemon that's blisteringly fast, stronger than Jolteon, looks like a canine, and has Intimidate? I think it's a Mega Evolution.
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It does overlook the fact that Jolteon can still wield an item which Mega Manectric cannot, though.

However, despite that, the point is still obvious and Intimidate Raikou would be rather pointless. Intimidate Entei which was mentioned is pointless too because Arcanine also exists.
 
What Raikou needs is to be able to use his event moves without nature restrictions. What Entei needs is Ground/Fighting type coverage, or Mold Breaker, so it can deal with Heatran. What Suicune would really really like Freeze Dry, or Mold Breaker, as the former gives the user perfect 2 move coverage, and the latter prevents CroCune from being hard walled by Water Absorb/Dry Skin/Storm Drain/Wonder Guard.
 
PokemonMasterDebater said:
What Raikou needs is to be able to use his event moves without nature restrictions. What Entei needs is Ground/Fighting type coverage, or Mold Breaker, so it can deal with Heatran. What Suicune would really really like Freeze Dry, or Mold Breaker, as the former gives the user perfect 2 move coverage, and the latter prevents CroCune from being hard walled by Water Absorb/Dry Skin/Storm Drain/Wonder Guard.
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I always hated the nature restrictions for raiku's moves
 
i don't know if anyone ever said this before (tl;dr), but i thought about a change for sleep (not a huge one, but still nice) what if sleeping mons awakened when hit (other than obviously after some turns) and got more damage/autocrit on that turn? (n-no h8)
 
Lol at me having implemented NEXT changes (albeit minor) without ever knowing this thread existed - aka never having looked for it.

PokemonMasterDebater said:
What Raikou needs is to be able to use his event moves without nature restrictions.
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This suggestion was brought up to me before by another user of the NEXT room on the simulator and I eagerly supported it. I'm not sure how I would go about implementation (I guess I could manually add it into a pokemon's learnset though I'm sure Zarel knows a more optimal way to code this). I don't see how this would be a big deal and this would open up a personal favorite of mine that is Eruption Heatran (without having to go Hasty)!

useless trainer said:
i don't know if anyone ever said this before (tl;dr), but i thought about a change for sleep (not a huge one, but still nice) what if sleeping mons awakened when hit (other than obviously after some turns) and got more damage/autocrit on that turn? (n-no h8)
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This would nerf sleep too much to the point that using it would be pointless unless it was directly coupled with a boosting move on the same set (think Spore SD Breloom).

Lilfut said:
Garbodor needs Gunk Shot as a signature move, as well as an expanded movepool. I'd recommend Muddy Water specifically off the top of my head, but he definitely needs more good type coverage than he has. The utter lack of Steel coverage is especially baffling, since he very clearly has metal tubing or wires sticking out of him.

Also, Flying Press should have buffed BP so that it's a viable alternative to High Jump Kick on Hawlucha.
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I just today buffed Flying Press from 95% accuracy to 100% accuracy :^)

Temporaryanonymous said:
-snipped-
Also, a few other things:
Genesect forms and compound eyes are illegal right now. I assume this is a glitch?
Confusion mechanics are a bit wonky, as a pokemon that faints from the self hitting still attacks before fainting: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/gennextou-112389068
Are items like Fire Gem and Custap berry going to be added back in or no?
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Compound Eyes has been fixed. Genesect is only illegal with a Drive on, not in the base state (such as using life orb or leftovers)

Zeofar said:
Issue: Swift Swim, Chlorophyll, and Sand Rush often make it completely impossible to be outsped. Many teams often have absolutely no way to prevent this or deal with it.
Proposal: Make these abilities increase speed by 1.5x instead of 2x
Rationale: This would greatly improve any team's ability to respond to Pokemon with these abilities with a Choice Scarf user while still maintaining their function. Some extremely slow abusers of these abilities would suffer, like Beartic, Armaldo, and Omastar. However, it would also improve the relative utility of users like Floatzel who are already fast.
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I've also shown this suggestion to Zarel and labeled it extreme in my e-mail to him. However I too support this change as currently NEXT is rampant with weather and although the tier is still vastly unexplored, weather dominates right now. Namely Sun, Rain, and Sand as they all have a corresponding 2x speed ability. Hail has been buffed but not enough (but that's another change entirely).

Zeofar said:
On to more general suggestions:

Issue: Cloud Nine and Air Lock are relatively weak abilities that don't function the way most people expect.
Proposal: Make Cloud Nine and Air Lock induce a no-weather state on switch-in.
Rationale: This lends some much-needed function to Cloud Nine users as anti-weather tools. Lickitung and Lickilicky especially would have some viability on non-weather teams as clerics. Technically speaking, Rayquaza does not need the buff.

Issue: Unnerve
-unnerve suggestions-

Issue: Howl is too weak to be used viably.
Alternative 2: Make Howl also drop the attack of the opposing Pokemon one stage.
Rationale: This accentuates the attack drop of Intimidate, making it hard on anyone who wants to stay in against a Howl user.

Issue: Cute Charm is far too unreliable to be used.
Alternative: Update Cute Charm to status quo so that it always causes Infatuation when hit, like Poison Point and Static.
Rationale: A basic policy update. I think this speaks for itself.

Issue: White Smoke was not updated with Clear Body, an identical ability.
Proposal: Update White Smoke to match Clear Body's new functionality.
Rationale: Because status quo. But there's more: it gives Torkoal some powerful options. Overheat and Shell Smash now have no downside on an offensive Torkoal. It can run a solid Shell Smash set with Overheat/Earth Power/Hidden Power or a mixed set with Overheat/Stone Edge and Earthquake or Earth Power. The power of Shell Smash is kept in check by Torkoal's low speed, making it fairly easy to revenge kill since no boost will ever make Torkoal fast. Heatmor also gets an improved Superpower, but it wouldn't do much to make it great.

Alright, that's it for today.
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  • I don't understand exactly what you're saying about Cloud 9? I feel as though you're stating what it does.
  • I didn't like either of your Unnerve suggestions.
  • I quoted the Howl suggestion I like most, this makes it slightly skin to the Parabolic Charge change (where the user is almost gaining a +2 in SpA because of the effect on the opponent). I don't see it being an overbearing change at all - strongly support.
  • I quoted the Cute Charm suggestion I liked the most, this brings it into viability but because of limited distribution to mons that aren't exactly known for being exceedingly strong I don't mind this type of "RNG" being introduced into NEXT. Support on this as well.
  • Temporaryanonymous did your White Smoke suggestion recently, yay!

PokemonMasterDebater said:
  • Make Slash a 60 BP auto crit move, and give Persian signature Slash: 60(bp)*1.5(Tech)*1.5(Crit)*1.5(STAB)*1.5(Sig)=301.75 base power. Slightly more powerful than unboosted Dragonite's Outrage.
    In RBY, Persian had a guarantied critical hit with Slash, and that gave it a home in OU, dispite its lower bulk and attack, and worse coverage than other normal types in the tier. But sense the changes to critical hit mechanics in Gen 2, Persian has been in the lowest tier available every gen since then. This change would give it a new chance to become useful, even if it lacks the coverage that would be required to be a sweeper.

  • Buff Sniper so that it also boosts accuracy by 1.3: Many of the moves that benefit from sniper and higher crit rates, like Stone Edge and Draco Meteor, are also somewhat unreliable in terms of accuracy. The word "sniper" is somewhat synonymous with "marksman" which means being skillful and accurate at shooting, so it would make sense for Pokémon with the ability Sniper to be more accurate with their attacks.
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I like Persian signature Slash but I don't see the reason to give it auto-crit other than for nostalgia, it just doesn't fit flavour-wise (in my head). I think maybe added a 30% -1 defense chance would be better than autocrit (this goes along with a Slash on your body making that area weaker because it's now an exposed wound). I support.

Sniper changes make sense but they ruin the CritDra set so I'm not sure how I feel about that :(
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EDIT: Personal suggestions

  1. Give Bastiodon King's Shield as it's face is literally a giant shield and it goes along with the idea of Bastiodon just being a massive wall/tank meant to absorb damage. (though this might not fit flavour wise because a King is Royalty and Bastiodon doesn't give off that appearance).
  2. Give Hydreigon intrinsic Intimidate, this is a great buff that brings him up from NU standards to viable in OU imo. This also let's him run u-turn more often (even on the special set) in order to pivot off of physical attackers who switch after his intimidate. This also allows him to enter more matchups he normally could not if used in OU.
  3. Give the pixies intrinsics with their levitate -> Uxie gets Oblivious because it goes along with it's 'clueless' appearance. Mesprit gets Telepathy because it isn't that strong in NEXT and fits with its "clairvoyant" appearance. Azelf I'm unsure because too big a buff and we find it being overbearing in OU (it was already a great suicide lead in Gen4/5 imo).
  4. Someone suggested to me giving Rotom-Frost Hail, seems innocent enough and good for teams that run double weather in case their perma-weather mon dies and enemy also has a weather.
  5. Make Rotom-Frost the perma-hail inducer over Cryogonal - a change suggested to me by the same user, perhaps a buff to Hail by having a better Hail inducer?
  6. Implementation of a Physical Assault Vest item (1.5 to defense + only attacking moves). Big change but something that isn't that bad.
  7. STONE THAT LETS TRICK ROOM BE EXTENDED TO 7 TURNS. I want this change n_n

Obnoxiously tagging Zarel to read this post and let me know if I'm allowed to incorporate any of the things I've talked about in this massive post. If anything I like the cute charm changes the most.

Please don't remind me of the already withstanding stuff I proposed on git and didn't fix yet, I'm still working it out, forgive me Zarel-kun.
 
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What he means about Cloud Nine is having it actually remove the weather when it comes in, instead of just nullifying its effects while the Mon who has it is in. As it is iirc, switching in a Cloud Nine user does not get rid of weather, and if they are switched back out before the weather ends, the weather's effects will continue.
 
Ah thank you, uh that seems like a big change but not too big of a deal as I think only Lickilicky, Golduck, and Rayquaza get it. If there is another mon who has it, I'm unaware. As always it falls onto the shoulders of Zarel to decide what changes he'd like to see in his mod, so I'll be patient and give it a week and I think he'll respond here :)
 
Crestfall said:
Obnoxiously tagging Zarel to read this post and let me know if I'm allowed to incorporate any of the things I've talked about in this massive post. If anything I like the cute charm changes the most.
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Most are fine.

No to:
- Pixies - find something that fits the trio as a whole
- Rotom-Frost Hail, perma-hail - it doesn't fit, the other Rotoms don't have a similar ability
- physical Assault Vest - the more different physical and special are, the better; stop copying abilities from the other side
- Eruption Heatran - we don't buff high-OU mons except in special cases
 
Crestfall said:
Lol at me having implemented NEXT changes (albeit minor) without ever knowing this thread existed - aka never having looked for it.
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Wow welcome Crestfall! You're just a little bit late to the party that's all! :^)
This would nerf sleep too much to the point that using it would be pointless unless it was directly coupled with a boosting move on the same set (think Spore SD Breloom).
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Sleeping of sleep (and freeze), I had an idea a while ago to change freeze's thaw chance to 50%. This would still make it an average of 2 turns to thaw, but also has some of the randomness that freeze already has.
I just today buffed Flying Press from 95% accuracy to 100% accuracy :^)
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lol I saw. It's still terrible though. If it were to ever be buffed though, it's a low priority change.
Compound Eyes has been fixed. Genesect is only illegal with a Drive on, not in the base state (such as using life orb or leftovers)
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Well drives let it download and have a decent STAB boosted techno blast. Probably medium-ish priority to fix? n_n
I've also shown this suggestion to Zarel and labeled it extreme in my e-mail to him. However I too support this change as currently NEXT is rampant with weather and although the tier is still vastly unexplored, weather dominates right now. Namely Sun, Rain, and Sand as they all have a corresponding 2x speed ability. Hail has been buffed but not enough (but that's another change entirely).
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To be honest, NEXT meta doesn't have rampant weather abuse, but I think that's a bit in part that the players recognize how powerful unlimited weather is. Without a weather starter on your own team, your opponent can almost guarantee beating you in speed races, as well as having a permanent 1.5 boost in fire, water, or spD. Hail still gets the short end of the stick though. Still, perma-weather basically forces all players to pack a weather user as a team is almost always at a disadvantage if they do not have weather but the opponent does.
  1. Give Bastiodon King's Shield as it's face is literally a giant shield and it goes along with the idea of Bastiodon just being a massive wall/tank meant to absorb damage. (though this might not fit flavour wise because a King is Royalty and Bastiodon doesn't give off that appearance).
  2. Give Hydreigon intrinsic Intimidate, this is a great buff that brings him up from NU standards to viable in OU imo. This also let's him run u-turn more often (even on the special set) in order to pivot off of physical attackers who switch after his intimidate. This also allows him to enter more matchups he normally could not if used in OU.
  3. Give the pixies intrinsics with their levitate -> Uxie gets Oblivious because it goes along with it's 'clueless' appearance. Mesprit gets Telepathy because it isn't that strong in NEXT and fits with its "clairvoyant" appearance. Azelf I'm unsure because too big a buff and we find it being overbearing in OU (it was already a great suicide lead in Gen4/5 imo).
  4. Someone suggested to me giving Rotom-Frost Hail, seems innocent enough and good for teams that run double weather in case their perma-weather mon dies and enemy also has a weather.
  5. Make Rotom-Frost the perma-hail inducer over Cryogonal - a change suggested to me by the same user, perhaps a buff to Hail by having a better Hail inducer?
  6. Implementation of a Physical Assault Vest item (1.5 to defense + only attacking moves). Big change but something that isn't that bad.
  7. STONE THAT LETS TRICK ROOM BE EXTENDED TO 7 TURNS. I want this change n_n
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1. I sort of see Bastiodon getting it as a possible egg move, but this might be a case of Aegislash's signature move actually being signature.
2. I've seen suggestions of Defiant or Competitive Hydreigon to make it a possible alternative to Bisharp, but let's not exaggerate Hydreigon's 4x weakness; it's still UU as of now.
3. I'm finding it a bit hard to see what unifies the pixies since they're almost 3 extremes, one offensive, one defensive, one balanced. They're based off the Imperial Regalia of Japan though, the sword, mirror, and jewel, symbolizing valor, wisdom, and benevolence. Might be a bit hard thinking of one ability to give to all of them and be useful to all.
4&5. Snowflake making hail makes more sense than a refrigerator lol
 
Temporaryanonymous said:
Wow welcome Crestfall! You're just a little bit late to the party that's all! :^)
-snipped-

Well drives let it download and have a decent STAB boosted techno blast. Probably medium-ish priority to fix? n_n
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Th-thanks for the welcome. As for Genesect I would except I have no idea what I'm doing, if I did it'd be top priority for me to try to make drive-gene work for essentially 4 new OU mons to try out!

1. I sort of see Bastiodon getting it as a possible egg move, but this might be a case of Aegislash's signature move actually being signature.
2. I've seen suggestions of Defiant or Competitive Hydreigon to make it a possible alternative to Bisharp, but let's not exaggerate Hydreigon's 4x weakness; it's still UU as of now.
3. I'm finding it a bit hard to see what unifies the pixies since they're almost 3 extremes, one offensive, one defensive, one balanced. They're based off the Imperial Regalia of Japan though, the sword, mirror, and jewel, symbolizing valor, wisdom, and benevolence. Might be a bit hard thinking of one ability to give to all of them and be useful to all.
4&5. Snowflake making hail makes more sense than a refrigerator lol
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Yeah I agree on 1, I was just passing a suggestion from the room. Hydreigon needs something for sure - Competitive could work though! I agree on the Pixies, I did some research myself on them to try to find a uniting factor but even in the anime they present themselves for different reasons (Dawn's feelings, Ash's courage, Brock's knowledge/intelligence) - if anything we throw on Telepathy to all of them so we're a step closer to every non-OU Levitate having an intrinsic (lol Gengar). As for 4/5 again, another suggestion from a user in the NEXT room, the thinking behind it was to have a more "balanced" starter in terms of bulk:

Cryogonal
70 HP / 30 Def / 135 SpD

Rotom-Frost
50 HP / 107 Def / 107 SpD + paralysis immunity (albeit slower than Cryo + no Recover)

This allows more chances to get Hail back up if it's removed because Rotom can take hits from both sides, though flavour-wise it does make sense for a Snowflake to initiate it.
 
Double posting to list some (relatively) recent changes because I'd rather not put this into a giant wall:
  • Compound Eyes was fixed and can be used without incompatibility issues.
  • White Smoke buffed to work the same way as Clear Body (relevant: Torkoal's Shell Smash/Overheat and Heatmor's Superpower)
  • More move accuracy was buffed; Cut, Flying Press, Steam Eruption, Dragon Rush, Rock Tomb, Iron Tail, Mega Horn, Mega Punch, Sweet Kiss, and Whirlpool all were rounded up to the nearest multiple of 10.
  • Persian has signature Slash. Slash was changed to 60 BP [mainly for Technician] and has a 30% chance to lower Defense by 1. (It retains it's higher critical chance ratio)
  • Volcanion is available (unsure if intentional so I have not added it to the ReadME/changelog yet)
On-Going Changes (because I'm still learning):
  • Buffing Clear Smog and Twinneedle.
  • Finishing Echoed Voice.
  • Cute Charm (100% chance to activate)
Coming Soon:
  • Howl to lower enemy attack by 1
  • Hydreigon Intrinsic
 
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I was thinking we could lower the Water/Fire/SpD boosts in weather to 1.3x instead of 1.5x? And the corresponding penalties from 0.5x to 0.7x?

Possibly in addition to the 1.5x weather abilities.
 
Leave the penalties. Lower the boosts. As for the speed abilities that is entirely up to you, I personally support but that's a big call to make and would rapidly change things (scarfers can compete and web can take on weather).
 
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