Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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I can see Alola Fossil Pokemon with the concept of versions that didn't go extincted or a Dewgong that isn't an Ice Type because of the warm ocean. I could also see a Rock/Fire Geodude family because of volcanic rocks, but that kind of like baseless speculation to me.

As far as extreme Type changes like Sandshrew or Marowak, I think we can rule out Grass and Bug types losing those types because of being part of their nature, and I'd be shocked if Voltorb got any changes at all unless it becomes a Coconut. I want to say that I think all the drastic changes are revealed because I can see any more coming, but the changes are so drastic that I couldn't see any of them coming and it seems weird to reveal all of them early on and have so few.

What I can't see at all is Grimer, Koffing, Voltorb unless it becomes a Coconut, Hitmonlee, or Hitmonchan. With Pollution, Machinery, and Fighting Styles as being who they are, I feel safe saying that they're not getting Alola Forms.

We've seen Alolan Raichu and non-Alolan Pikachu (ie, both are in the game). Doesn't this conflict with a lot of the speculation above?

*I assume that Alolan Riachu must evolve from an Alolan Pikachu, which obviously may be incorrect.
There is no Alolan Pikachu, Cubone, or Exeggcute. That means that seeing Pokemon that aren't fully evolved does not rule out their evolutions. Thanks for making me remember that detail.
 

Coronis

N'Cha!
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I don't wanna wait two years longer than it'll take One Piece to finish publishing just for my favorite generation (DPPt) to get some love beyond remakes ;;;

In all seriousness though with a system like that gens 4 and 7 will get the short end of the stick because they will get attention on the series' 30th and 40th anniversaries, respectively.

Edit: if we get past trainer outfits the ones I'm genuinely looking forward to most are Cynthia, BW2 Iris, Emerald May, Platinum Dawn, Platinum Lucas and Lyra. It'd be pretty funny to dress up as Wake too.
Thats so cute you think OP will actually finish on schedule.
 
We've seen Alolan Raichu and non-Alolan Pikachu (ie, both are in the game). Doesn't this conflict with a lot of the speculation above?

*I assume that Alolan Riachu must evolve from an Alolan Pikachu, which obviously may be incorrect.
In the trailers is shown that normal Pikachu evolves into Alolan Raichu, the same goes for Exegutte and Cubone, both form non alolan to alolan form

Edit:
'd
 
Continued From my last post.

I'm telling you, a cutoff is coming so if you have ANY Pokemon from Gen III and beyond you want to be sent up you better do it now because come next generation the likelihood of them cutting Gen VI support is more likely.

Also Pokemon Bank is getting a Pokedex feature. Nothing that major, it just reads the save data of Sun & Moon and the Gen VI games (as well as the Pokemon you have store in the Bank) and show you the Pokemon you have caught and assumably deposit/withdraw those Pokemon from there instead of needing to go look for it.
Two things:

1 - I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying but, the Poke Bank server is entirely independent and not at all tied to gen 6's, all it truly needs is the game. That means even if gen6 (or the 3ds as a whole) does lose its support, so long as the next console has backwards compatibility with 3ds/ds games ( which is likely ) and a new Poke Bank app is made for it, it should be entirely possible to transfer over all data that has been stored in the old system to the new one with an update before shutting everything off. That's the beauty of a cloud storage system; as long as the Poke Bank itself doesn't lose support everything else should be able to interact with it so I wouldn't be concerned about that honestly.

2 - That is BIG. It means I won't have to transfer all 25 boxes of my living dex one by one onto the new games, basically saving me 20 solid minutes and as we all know : time is money my friend. Kinda bummed that my Pokedex will have to be put on hold for 2 month, though, and that's not accounting for any possible delays. Well, at least it'll give me plenty of time to complete Alola's regional dex, I guess.
 
So, we can crop the list with:

  1. Ekans family
  2. Nidoran family (probably will only be the last ones)
  3. Vileplume
  4. Venonat family
  5. Diglett family
  6. Poliwrath
  7. Bellsprout family
  8. Tentacool family
  9. Geodude family
  10. Ponyta family
  11. Farfetch'd (PLEASE)
  12. Doduo family
  13. Seel family
  14. Grimer family
  15. Krabby family
  16. Voltorb family
  17. Hitmonlee
  18. Hitmonchan
  19. Koffing family
  20. Goldeen family
  21. Mr. Mime
  22. Jynx
  23. Omanyte family
  24. Kabuto family
The most radical changes I see possibly on Koffing, Tentacool and Grimer. They're based on contamination and this region is all about the opposite.
Of this list, Farfetch'd is the only one I CRAVE TO SEE because it has been forgotten. Also, it may be that in Alola they weren't hunted so they developed differently.
Jynx is the other one I need to see something cool.
I would add the Venusaur family, Blastoise family, Pidgeot family, Beedrill family as well. Having Mega Evolution shouldnt disqualified them.

Cross out Poliwrath. We have seen it in its regular form.

Clefable line (sans Cleffa) is missing

You're missing Porygon too. Although how an artificial program can have regional form is a bit puzzling.
 
You guys are overfitting the data with very specific rules for Alolan forms. Not to mention that it is possible for non-Alolan and Alolan forms to coexist if they are geographically distinct. Maybe I'm just biased because I'm dying for a Dragon/Water Dragonite that keeps Multiscale. Also, I wouldn't expect Alola to be entirely free of pollution. Wherever humans go, pollution will follow. Yes, most of the islands seem pristine, but I bet there are some Grimer, Koffing, etc. in the dirty underbelly.
 
I would add the Venusaur family, Blastoise family, Pidgeot family, Beedrill family as well. Having Mega Evolution shouldnt disqualified them.
Cross out Poliwrath. We have seen it in its regular form.
Clefable line (sans Cleffa) is missing
You're missing Porygon too. Although how an artificial program can have regional form is a bit puzzling.
So far, none of the Mega-Pokemon was shown with an Alolan form. I'm assuming they're doing this to revise some Pokemon long forgotten. Clefable and Wigglytuff got Fairy type in gen 6, so I doubt they will give a different thing for gen 7.

Added Porygon.

  1. Ekans family
  2. Nidoran family (probably will only be the last ones)
  3. Vileplume
  4. Venonat family
  5. Diglett family
  6. Bellsprout family
  7. Tentacool family
  8. Geodude family
  9. Ponyta family
  10. Farfetch'd (PLEASE)
  11. Doduo family
  12. Seel family
  13. Grimer family
  14. Krabby family
  15. Voltorb family
  16. Hitmonlee
  17. Hitmonchan
  18. Koffing family
  19. Goldeen family
  20. Porygon
  21. Jynx
  22. Omanyte family
  23. Kabuto family
EDIT: Removed Mr.Mime as per Integer Mova note.
 
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Ungoliath Mr. Mime received a Fairy typing in Gen 6 alongside Clefairy, Jigglypuff, and their respective evolutions, so you may want to remove it from the potential Alolan Forms just in case.
 
As far as extreme Type changes like Sandshrew or Marowak, I think we can rule out Grass and Bug types losing those types because of being part of their nature, and I'd be shocked if Voltorb got any changes at all unless it becomes a Coconut.
In other regions, the standard Poke Ball is by far the most used Poke Ball used (only the PC is seen using alternate balls), and Voltorb could have mimicked the standard specifically to blend, but since Trainers in Alola have been seen using other Poke Balls, it would make some sense for a Voltorb to evolve to mimic other ball variants in an effort to blend in. Possibly.
 
Again correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those evolutions were strictly confirmed, right? As in, we saw the evolution sequence start and then it cut to the evolved form.
Dude, they are not trying to trick you. The reason it cuts away is because the evolution animation takes forever, and because it's cooler to see the evolved form in action immediately. Trust me on this.
 
With regards to who's getting an Alola form, has anyone checked whether or not the Pokemon who do have an Alola form had their normal forms shown in a trailer or something prior to revealing the Alola form? Because if so, the whole discussion is kind of pointless.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying but, the Poke Bank server is entirely independent and not at all tied to gen 6's, all it truly needs is the game. That means even if gen6 (or the 3ds as a whole) does lose its support, so long as the next console has backwards compatibility with 3ds/ds games ( which is likely ) and a new Poke Bank app is made for it, it should be entirely possible to transfer over all data that has been stored in the old system to the new one with an update before shutting everything off. That's the beauty of a cloud storage system; as long as the Poke Bank itself doesn't lose support everything else should be able to interact with it so I wouldn't be concerned about that honestly.
But that's the thing, how long will GF support compatibility with Gen VI? Of course right now they're keeping it because people would want to transfer their Pokemon from Gen VI to Sun & Moon, but what about when Gen VIII comes out? Then Gen VI would be two generations old and not likely anyone playing it or at least playing online and breeding Pokemon in it (course some people may replay it for fun and catch a Pokemon they may want to transfer up, like a Shiny). Either they decide to save server space but stopping Gen VI support or leave that functionality alone but if it breaks they won't bother fixing it as they would have moved on by then. Or they could release a newer and better version of the Pokemon Bank, we'll call it Pokemon Cloud, where the Gen VI compatibility won't even be an option since it would be two or more generations old. OR, if in the future GF decides that Pokemon Bank isn't worth keeping up so they decide to close it down.

From Gen III to Gen V the transferring of Pokemon was within the games themselves, as long as you had the devices you needed you could transfer without needing a middle function. But since transferring to Gen VI and beyond is now solely dependent on Pokemon Bank the ability to transfer up is out of your hands and into the hands of the people running the servers who have to think of the business side of things. Oh, and also since its connected to Pokemon Bank it's no longer a free thing, you'd have to pay the Pokemon Bank yearly subscription even if you don't plan on using it. Yeah, 5 bucks isn't a lot but it's 5 bucks I could have spent somewhere else but am now paying for something which in previous generations was free. Oh, and that's not even going into people who may not have that great of an internet access, admittedly a small crowd but does that mean they deserve to be ignored? And you know what, they could easily fix this by having Poke Transporter be able to store some Pokemon in it, which I guess could be their backup plan.

I would add the Venusaur family, Blastoise family, Pidgeot family, Beedrill family as well. Having Mega Evolution shouldnt disqualified them.
Here's the problem with Pokemon with Mega Evolutions if they get an Alolan Form: Either they'd have to not change the Alolan Pokemon by a lot so it makes sense for them to Mega Evolve into their Mega Form or they'd have to create another Mega Form. It's a hassle eitherway, though admittedly Alolan Mega Evolution does sound cool and I kind of hope is a thing (which if revealed to be then, yes, you can add back in the Pokemon who was disqualified since they had Mega Evolutions).

However also Mega Evolutions is a Gen VI thing and GF right now is pandering HARD to Gen I because 20th Anniversary seems to only apply to Gen I in their eyes (or they're trying to draw back the people who left Pokemon after Gen I but got back into it because of Pokemon GO).

You guys are overfitting the data with very specific rules for Alolan forms. Not to mention that it is possible for non-Alolan and Alolan forms to coexist if they are geographically distinct. Maybe I'm just biased because I'm dying for a Dragon/Water Dragonite that keeps Multiscale. Also, I wouldn't expect Alola to be entirely free of pollution. Wherever humans go, pollution will follow. Yes, most of the islands seem pristine, but I bet there are some Grimer, Koffing, etc. in the dirty underbelly.
With regards to who's getting an Alola form, has anyone checked whether or not the Pokemon who do have an Alola form had their normal forms shown in a trailer or something prior to revealing the Alola form? Because if so, the whole discussion is kind of pointless.
While you have a point, it does defeat the purpose of having an Alolan Form. Alolan Pokemon are Pokemon who adapted to Alola's environment, there really shouldn't be a normal variation of that Pokemon unless it was brought over (like with your family's normal Meowth).

You know, I'm beginning to wonder if it was even worth trying to list which Pokemon would get Alolan Forms considering all the arguments that broke out of who qualifies and doesn't qualify.
 
Here's the problem with Pokemon with Mega Evolutions if they get an Alolan Form: Either they'd have to not change the Alolan Pokemon by a lot so it makes sense for them to Mega Evolve into their Mega Form or they'd have to create another Mega Form.
Does not really have to be the case. As long as they can hand wave it well, they could have drastically different Alola Forms and have the same Mega Evolution.
 
With regards to who's getting an Alola form, has anyone checked whether or not the Pokemon who do have an Alola form had their normal forms shown in a trailer or something prior to revealing the Alola form? Because if so, the whole discussion is kind of pointless.
Normal Pikachu was definitely shown before Alolan Raichu, for what that's worth.
 
Normal Pikachu was definitely shown before Alolan Raichu, for what that's worth.
Pikachu would probably be an exception either way. It's the series mascot so there's no way it wasn't going to be shown, and as far as we know only Raichu has an Alolan form in the line, and I'd be surprised if they gave us more Alolan forms for the Pikachu line, because my guess is they'd have revealed them along with Raichu. But yes, it is 100% possible that NFE regular form Pokemon might have Alolan evolutions.
 
Pikachu would probably be an exception either way. It's the series mascot so there's no way it wasn't going to be shown, and as far as we know only Raichu has an Alolan form in the line, and I'd be surprised if they gave us more Alolan forms for the Pikachu line, because my guess is they'd have revealed them along with Raichu. But yes, it is 100% possible that NFE regular form Pokemon might have Alolan evolutions.
Cubone and Exeggcute.
 
Here's the problem with Pokemon with Mega Evolutions if they get an Alolan Form: Either they'd have to not change the Alolan Pokemon by a lot so it makes sense for them to Mega Evolve into their Mega Form or they'd have to create another Mega Form. It's a hassle eitherway, though admittedly Alolan Mega Evolution does sound cool and I kind of hope is a thing (which if revealed to be then, yes, you can add back in the Pokemon who was disqualified since they had Mega Evolutions).
I'm not quite sure on this. Most Mega evolutions keep the typing of the original pokemon the same, modify a few stats, and override its ability. For instance, mega evolving an Alakazam gives it +20 Def, +40 SpA, +30 Spe, and changes its ability to Trace. There is no reason why this couldn't apply to an Alolan Alakazam that has different typing/stats/ability/movepool from the regular forme. It would mean they'd need to create 4 new models as opposed to 3, but that's hardly prohibitive if they want to do it. While I agree that pokemon with megas are unlikely to get Alolan formes, I think it's very premature to discount them at this stage.
 
I just want to add my two cents to the table about the A-Form discussion. There is no point in(excuse the profanity)fucking making a list. We know GF they are going to monkey wrench this entire concept by making it more realistic and having not only having alolan forms, but the regular forms to, because that is how Darwinian Evolution works some of the population evolves and some stay the same, but find a way to survive.
 
I just want to add my two cents to the table about the A-Form discussion. There is no point in(excuse the profanity)fucking making a list. We know GF they are going to monkey wrench this entire concept by making it more realistic and having not only having alolan forms, but the regular forms to, because that is how Darwinian Evolution works some of the population evolves and some stay the same, but find a way to survive.
Pokemon-sunmoon.com said:
Some Pokémon have adapted to the distinctive microclimates of the Alola region, taking on different forms than they have in other regions. These Pokémon are called regional variants. Taking root in the Alola region, they live like native Pokémon. Regional variant Pokémon can have different appearances and types, and their ways of living can also differ from that of the forms previously known.
Alolan forms are the forms we will see in the wild in Alola, and not the originals. The website is literally saying that.
 
I just want to add my two cents to the table about the A-Form discussion. There is no point in(excuse the profanity)fucking making a list. We know GF they are going to monkey wrench this entire concept by making it more realistic and having not only having alolan forms, but the regular forms to, because that is how Darwinian Evolution works some of the population evolves and some stay the same, but find a way to survive.
That's.... really not how Darwinian evolution works. The competitive exclusion principal generally makes closely related species unable to coexist in a niche together. If one has an adaptational advantage it will out compete the other species, eventually leading to extinction. While sympatric speciation can allow for two species to arise from one common ancestor and remain in the same habitat, it requires divvying up natural resources or hours active and its considered significantly less common than allopatric or parapatric speciation. It would be kind of neat for say, both Alolan Butterfree and regular Butterfree to exist if they ended up specializing on different berries, but I don't see it likely.

A ring species showing parapatric speciation would also be fascinating. For example on one island there's regular Lapras, on another there's Water/Fairy Lapras, on the other there's Water/Dragon Lapras, and finally a Water/Rock Lapras. It would be especially great if Water/Ice Lapras and Water/Rock Lapras couldn't breed to really solidify the ring species thing.

Overall though GameFreak seem most interested in using Alola to examine the specific features that an island brings to evolutionary history. Exeggutor is an example of island gigantism for example, and Oricorio being an example of adaptive radiation.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
A ring species showing parapatric speciation would also be fascinating. For example on one island there's regular Lapras, on another there's Water/Fairy Lapras, on the other there's Water/Dragon Lapras, and finally a Water/Rock Lapras. It would be especially great if Water/Ice Lapras and Water/Rock Lapras couldn't breed to really solidify the ring species thing.
You mean like Oricorio?
 
Oricorio is really more of an example of adaptive radiation than ring species. But I guess with Oricorio being the same species the distinction isn't as big as it would if all 4 were separate species entirely. Maybe it'd be most accurate to describe Oricorio as a species in the middle of adaptive radiation that has yet to complete speciation.

But for a ring species, imagine a mountain. Bird A lives North of the mountain and can breed with Bird B that lives on the East. This means they're the same species. Bird B can breed with Bird C that lives on the South of the mountain, meaning they're the same species. Bird C can breed with bird D on the West of the mountain, meaning they're the same species.

But Bird D and Bird A cannot breed with each other. Meaning they are not the same species. Thus there is a ring, where if you examine most parts of it you have the same species, but when you reach the end, they're different. Its kind of like looking at a color gradient between red and white and identifying when its red, when it becomes pink, and when it stops being pink and becomes white.

Something like that would be hard to do in Pokemon I guess, since we define species by ID Number, not breeding ability. I just really like how much biology there's been in Sun/Moon, so I thought it'd be a neat concept to bring up, even if it would be awkward to actually implement.

Perhaps a better way to do it would be if say on Melemele Island we had generic Lapras. Then on Akala we had a Lapras that was still Water/Ice, but its shell was bigger and darker. Then on UlaUla we had a Lapras that was again, still Water/Ice, but its skin color became more brown than blue. Finally on Poni we have a Water/Rock Lapras. Slight variations occurred throughout, but the only mechanical difference occurred at the end of the ring. Of course feel free to replace Lapras with whatever, it probably suits a new Pokemon than an Alolan form anyway.
 
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