General News Discussion Thread

brightobject

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I respect and appreciate your clarification gato but that does not change the fact that you framed your post entirely around your reasoning behind doubting the existence of racism and xenophobia, against the Chinese or otherwise. The proximity of your life and the Asian-American people you know to hate crimes should not be the baseline for which you determine hate to exist or not--the fallacy of this is alarming and I hope you can see it. It's a simple enough nuance to fit into any kind of post (the mainstream celebs and ranking establishment politicians have stopped vehemently criticizing China =/ = crimes against chinese people due to their ethnicity do not exist???) so I see no excuse for why you decided to be so hyperbolic about it

I don't know why "does anti-China sentiment turn into hate crimes?" is a question you're even asking. The real question you want to ask is "will anti-China sentiment have any kind of net negative outcome period." And the calculus of 'tankies' is that the answer to that question is, yes, obviously it's playing right into the hands of the US for there to be western leftists who believe that China is 'equivalently bad' to the US. And they are right in that analysis.

My mind can be changed on this but I thought the article was sorta corny? A lot of it could be summarized as "qiao collective is pro-china propaganda instead of nuanced discussion of China's complexities," to which I'm like, yeah brah, like most of what's out there is propaganda, you're worried about the like 2% that's actually pro-China? The article harps on how tankies see no alternatives to China as a challenge to US hegemony, but I don't think it mentions anywhere any actual alternatives? Like at what point am I supposed to be convinced by this article that it will have positive impacts on the world to be focused on what China does wrong (often with dubious sourcing) and to spread that around, which serves US interests, when I'm literally living in the US.
Totally valid read. Personally I find it interesting as a sociopolitical analysis of the new forms chinese nationalism has taken in contemporary America. It's highlighting how and why a specific cultural diaspora has been manipulated (and is manipulating) the discourse. It feels reductive to say it's just "Chinese propaganda waa" when they went pretty far into dissecting the specific ways in which the movement stems from anxieties regarding the HK and the exposure of Chinese authoritarianism (itself a hit job by Western powers, and so on and so on). Examining the social pressures that form these kind of movements organically is important--stuff like the I Want to be Chinese essay is just such a bizarre confluence of diasporic feelings and the battle between two world superpowers. It's a cocktail of idpol and ethnostatism that is so mirrored by the American far-right (but at the same time so stunningly different) that I have to laugh.

I've never gotten the "produce an alternative" argument whenever these false binaries are pointed out. I'm not a policy-maker or a diplomat who can pull the solutions to these problems out of a hat. Neither is the author of the article--perhaps it's exceedingly academic in that sense (if this is what you meant by corny then I take your point) since it doesn't necessarily contain much of a call to action beyond "be media literate," but yeah that's very much not the sum total of what I chose to take away from this.

I don't mean this to say believe every shitty thing you hear about China either (as I said media literacy)--Ajit singh's tear down of stuff like the Uighur exposes (Adrian Zenz being an insane bible maniac is fucking wild but just about what you'd expect at this point) proves the vested interests at play in creating this quagmire, but seems a little less pointed now that the CCP has admitted to the existence of the camps. I'd like to believe it's possible to be critical of American imperialism abroad as well as its injustices at home, while not pointing to the PRC as some bastion of freedom and justice. It quite frankly just shouldn't be a part of the equation--it's a false binary that is being fed by both sides for their own agendas.

e: fwiw the ajit singh piece linked in the comments https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/...ns-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

e: And yes i understand that gato was pointing out the hysteria of "tankies" should not be taken at face value, which is true. I'm critical of the rhetoric and logical leaps present in that post not that point specifically
 
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ManOfMany

Formerly Many
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just to share my personal thoughts regarding racism (as an Indian-American who hangs out with mostly Asian-Americans):

Racism against Asian-Americans is not uncommon but I don't feel as severe as it is against Blacks, Latinos, or Muslims. I am certain this is due to class differences. Asian-American immigrants tend to be wealthy because those who have immigrated in recent years have been relatively well-off and educated compared to the rest from the home country. So the "model minority" stereotype exists, as most Asian-Americans that the average person meets will not have had to deal with generational poverty and suppression, or immigrating as a refugee from a war-torn country.

* I do realize this isn't a contest of who experiences the most racism. But Gato isn't off to be suspicious of those crying racism when the actions of China government are criticized. This is a known strategy and we should be wary of it. Recall prominent Jewish politicians crying racism when Israel is criticized for example
 
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vonFiedler

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There's a whole lot that could be said (and has been said) with varying degrees of sensitivity, but I feel it all boils down to:
Nationalism is a disease, authoritarianism and racism are the symptoms. Don't see why I can't dislike that behavior if it's coming from Chinese Leftists anymore than I fucking loathe it coming from the alt-right and Trump.
 
I've never gotten the "produce an alternative" argument whenever these false binaries are pointed out. I'm not a policy-maker or a diplomat who can pull the solutions to these problems out of a hat. Neither is the author of the article--perhaps it's exceedingly academic in that sense (if this is what you meant by corny then I take your point) since it doesn't necessarily contain much of a call to action beyond "be media literate," but yeah that's very much not the sum total of what I chose to take away from this.
But like how can you make the claim that something is a 'false binary' in the first place without demonstrating viable alternatives to that? "Both sides being bad" is like, I can understand that position, but I think that in itself is not equivalent to "there must be some better way of doing this" unless the argument is that they are fundamentally the same?

The media literacy thing you talk about is really important and complicated to me. It's good to be media literate but it's also necessary to understand that nobody is immune to propaganda, and that the vast majority of the media in the west is anti-china/anti-communist. So I feel like you get a lot of people who think they're media literate, and legitimately try to be as careful and disciplined as they can, but they've been swimming in western propaganda for possibly their entire lives, and so they have big loud alarm bells go off when they see the rare stuff that's openly pro-china. Meanwhile they're internalizing tons of anti-china/anti-communist rhetoric without catching it because it's just way harder to have your sensors go off to something that you're submerged in.

I know this doesn't address your whole post, you're right that there's more to the article than just this though for sure.
 

brightobject

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So, unmarked police in Portland. Thoughts? Surprised it hasn't been mentioned here yet.

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/8922...arked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland
Very much some "then they came for x" vibes. Trump has announced plans to send troops to Oakland (Cuccinelli's casual mention of deploying this kind of program nationwide notwithstanding). He's also implied the existence of some kind of plan related to New York City. So assertions that this has been more of a practice operation for the administration seems clear.

“I’m gonna do something, that I can tell you. Because we are not gonna let New York, and Chicago, and Philadelphia, and Detroit, and Baltimore, and all of these – Oakland is a mess, we’re not gonna let this happen in our country. All run by the liberal democrats” (https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...s-he-will-send-federal-agents-to-major-cities)

For context: the guy in charge of federal troops in PDX, Chad Wolf (unilaterally appointed as 'Acting Secretary' of the DHS by Trump bypassing traditional confirmation hearings for a position as Undersecretary which are still underway), is also one of the people behind the family separation policies used by ICE under Nielsen in 2018. So understand that similar practices have been honed for the last couple of years (and even before that under Obama) by immigration officials--this is not some Republican war dog pulled out of the shadows, it's a very bipartisan legacy.

The takeaway from this stuff is that this kind of operation will be expanded, and it will be incredibly easy for the government to do so simply because they can utilize existing infrastructure built up around ICE and CBP (the latter's hypothetical jurisdiction already covers about 2/3rds of the American population - https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone ). It's an explicitly targeted gross abuse of power--the advantages of spreading federal control, violence, and paranoia in cities where people are protesting the status quo / with mayors and governors that oppose him are painfully obvious. Hopefully the suits against this delay it long enough for something to shift, but I very much doubt it.

e: to be clear,by "this kind of operation" I mean federal agents driving around in unmarked cars and vans with the ability to arrest basically anyone without stating a reason for arrest and detaining them for upwards of 20 hours without any outside contact. Not to mention the incredible violence being meted out by federal troops (an internal DHS memo mentioned that they do not have specific training in riot control or mass demonstrations). Perhaps you haven't seen the video of the Navy veteran being fucking WHALED on with a baton for standing still in front of some feds - (TW for police violence ofc)

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/dh-stacticalagent-memo1/d490e392eab7d7d6/full.pdf
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/dh-stacticalagent-memo2/bcc35f3303958cac/full.pdf
DHS memos regarding feds.

e2: article on Chris David, the guy beaten by the feds in said vid: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...like-a-punching-bag-in-portland-idUSKCN24L2CP
 
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termi

bite the future and fuck the past
is a Tiering Contributor
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...-mass-hysterectomies-at-ice-detention-center/

blatant eugenics going on in ICE concentration camps. believable and not surprising that this would happen given how immigrants have been systematically dehumanized, absolutely repulsive nonetheless. understand that these are the consequences of a long history of american exceptionalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy that has never been reckoned with politically and never will be within the confines of american "democracy". this is not some isolated event or (exclusively) part of the "trump phenomenon" but a logical consequence of all that the american empire is and all that it will be if radical political change is not achieved
 
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...-mass-hysterectomies-at-ice-detention-center/

blatant eugenics going on in ICE concentration camps. believable and not surprising that this would happen given how immigrants have been systematically dehumanized, absolutely repulsive nonetheless. understand that these are the consequences of a long history of american exceptionalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy that has never been reckoned with politically and never will be within the confines of american "democracy". this is not some isolated event or (exclusively) part of the "trump phenomenon" but a logical consequence of all that the american empire is and all that it will be if radical political change is not achieved
Given the history of the gynecologist in question, this looks more like standard Medicare/Medicaid fraud (with obviously reprehensible consequences for these women) than some kind of genocidal plot. Malpractice of this kind is pretty common in situations with poor/elderly/minority patients who often have no choice but to trust the fist and only doctor they consult, and could even be called a logical consequence of unaccountable government healthcare systems.
 

termi

bite the future and fuck the past
is a Tiering Contributor
Given the history of the gynecologist in question, this looks more like standard Medicare/Medicaid fraud (with obviously reprehensible consequences for these women) than some kind of genocidal plot. Malpractice of this kind is pretty common in situations with poor/elderly/minority patients who often have no choice but to trust the fist and only doctor they consult, and could even be called a logical consequence of unaccountable government healthcare systems.
im not sure what your point is, i never mentioned a "genocidal plot" because genocidal practices already tend to happen in highly unequal societies without there being any sort of deliberate plot. a gynecologist who has been deemed guilty of malpractice or w/e (didnt read your legal document, next time you link me a boring source please give me a summary of its contents) being installed in an ICE facility obviously wouldn't have happened to begin with in a system that values the lives of nonwhite immigrants equally to those of white americans. if we add this case to the mountain of evidence that refugees in ICE camps are treated as less than human, it becomes apparent that even if nobody is presently plotting to start killing refugees off systematically, it is not unthinkable that such a thing could happen whenever "the situation calls for it"
 

Bughouse

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I have done work related to program integrity for Medicare and Medicaid. Putting the genocidal stuff aside (lol) I’m furious that the government settled any suit against this doc. Had they actually been convicted on that False Claims Act case, they’d have ended up on the Do Not Pay list and not been able to be used for any government services such as these.

My understanding is that when a case like this is even brought it means the facts are a home run and they’re pretty guaranteed to get a conviction so any settlement annoys me.
 
p grim news tonight with the barrett confirmation. but a little while ago i promised myself to respond to setbacks with action, not despair. which is why i have just taken out what theyre calling a "blood mortgage" to donate to nancy pelosi's reelection and speakership campaign. i didnt really read the fine print on the contract before i signed it, but i would like to thank thiel capital for the opportunity to contribute 50,000 to strong women and to make our majority work!
 

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