Gifts of the Gods

Can I take a moment to reexamine the Eviolite ban?

I've been laddering on an alt, trying some spicy innovations, but I never really started to get anywhere until I switched over to brainless HO. Honestly, aside from some really solidly built balance teams, the only teams that gave me trouble (and the only ones that people really use) are heavy offense teams, taking advantage of high Attack and Special Attack from Deoxys, Kyurem and Hoopa. Defensive mons really can't keep up with all the new offensive threats, and it's really skewing the type of teams that can actually succeed.

Now, there's nothing wrong with a meta that skews towards one playstyle over others, but there seems to be a bit of hypocrisy when it comes to item bans. Namely, why is Eviolite banned when equivalent items in Light Ball and Thick Club are unbanned? The main argument I can see is distribution, as Eviolite is more generally usable, and that makes total sense. But let me ask this: who would Eviolite even be a problem on?

Chansey is banned already, so that's dealt with. Porygon2, admittedly, sounds like a bit of a nightmare, but its base HP and defensive stats don't allow it to be totally invincible like Chansey, as it has to pick one to buff. Other things have the potential for supreme tankiness, but a lot of them lack recovery and most of them are completely passive. What's more, anything that relies on Eviolite is doomed by Knock Off, which remains as popular as ever.

As an example, the first balance/semi-stall team I was going to try used Jigglypuff as a bootleg Chansey. 115 HP + 154 SpDef boosted by Eviolite on a Ho-oh/Lugia team sounds pretty cool, right? Does it even sound a little...OP? Well, here's the calcs comparing it to other special walls:

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Jigglypuff (154 SpDef): 154-183 (35.4 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Shuckle (Normal type, 150 HP): 169-199 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey (default stats): 223-264 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yeah, they all take about the same damage (Jiggles takes the most, actually). Also, all of them have to avoid taking more than ~20% damage if they want to effectively wall Boomburst. (seriously, screw Swellow). The difference here is that Jigglypuff falls over to a stiff breeze if the breeze does physical damage. And Jigglypuff is IMO one of the more promising Eviolite options due to its inherently high HP along with access to Wish and Seismic Toss.

I might be wrong, but I think Eviolite got the ax before this OM was even playable. That doesn't seem fair, in my opinion, and it was a decision that was made before Chansey was banned (see the ban reasoning in the OP: it's a calc with Chansey). I suggest we give unbanning Eviolite a shot, even if it's a temporary suspect test where it needs a majority of votes to stay unbanned. Offense will be slightly stifled but will remain mostly as strong as ever: just run 1-2 Knock Off users (Deoxys-A is already one, for instance) and you'll be able to stay afloat. I'm open to the possibility that Eviolite is still totally busted, but I think everyone can agree that it's not so inherently broken that we shouldn't even give it a chance.

In the mean time, I'll have to stick to using this for my SpDef slot:

Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell/Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss

#freejigglypuff
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
Some updates:
Shadow Tag and Soul Dew are banned (Gengarite remained unbanned as previously stated). I've edited the OP and the VRs to reflect this. I also moved Kyurem-W down to A because frankly I don't think it's on the same level as the other S ranks.
(Soul Dew has actually been banned for a while but I never got round to posting about it)

I'm also pleased to announce that I've established a council of myself, Funbot28, Chopin Alkaninoff, iLlama, and Niadev to help with VR, suspects, etc! This month has been extremely busy for me so I haven't been able to dedicate much time to it, and their help is invaluable.
 
Nominations:
S -> A+
A- -> A

Smeargle and Pikachu do a similar job. They both revenge kill with extreme speed (plus fakeout for Smeargle) or a coverage move if they have it. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. While Smeargle hits harder than Pikachu, its only for the first attack and Pikachu can hit consistantly
180 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Smeargle Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
180 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Smeargle Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 220-261 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
180 252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 245-289 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
386-457>245-289

Smeargle's advantage over Pikachu is that it gets access to more coverage and any status moves. However, with the high use of Mega Sableye, the status moves are rendered almost useless from magic bounce and Smeargle doesn't have the power to kill on its own, even with those moves
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Smeargle Thrash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
However, it hitting harder than Pikachu still makes it a rank above. I just think Smeargle isn't on par with pokemon like Talonflame and Sableye

The reason Pikachu should move up is because it can deal with pokemon like Talonflame and Smeargle and still have a heavy presence, not wanting anything to really die. It forces you to switch in a pokemon like Deo-A, Arceus, or Linoone because they can outspeed Pikachu. Without either of these three pokemon, Pikachu is going to leave either a trail of blood or a massive dent. This combined with a ghost type like Sableye causes a 50/50 situation every time Pikachu switches in and kills something. However, it does have illegality syndrome, in which all of its best moves are locked away behind illegalities, such as fakeout and volt tackle. However, with hazards, the only pokemon that threaten Pikachu are ground types like Lando, Rhy, and Quag along with the previously mentioned pokemon. However, anything else is probably going to die.
 
At first, I can agree with unbanning Eviolite. But after looking at the possibility of the mons, I'll say... NO.

There are reasons why Eviolite is banned in Extreme Tier Shift and it's an Ubers based meta. This meta gave a similar level of bulk to them. Don't believe me? Let's see some possible problem mons.



With Arceus Special Defense, this now has 105/120/120 Defenses. If you add Eviolite, It will have a bulk similar to Shuckle's but unlike Shuckle, it is NOT passive. Lacking recovery doesn't really matter when it can actually hit hard with 130 Attack.




This thing was UU with pathetic HP and Special Defense, mainly because it provides excellent typing and moves. If you give it Arceus' HP or SpD, It would be a nightmare to handle this thing solely because of excellent typing and it can actually set up SD and attack.


As mentioned, this is already very bulky AND have recovery. If you raise one of it's defenses it would be too tough to break because it has Recovery and with Download, it hits pretty hard.


With HP boost, This provides similar bulk to Porygon2, has recovery AND can actually SD and hit. While it may have SR weakness, this is still very threatening due to the bulk it has.


You may think "ah this thing is still inferior to Gliscor because this can't have PH." That may be true but you need to know that this thing has Immunity, which means it ALSO can't be Toxiced, so you can't really wear it down with status. While it may have a pretty mediocre Attack, tt also has SD and Recovery.

There are many more things that I haven't mentioned like Dusclops, Munchlax, Ferroseed, Piloswine, Tangela, Togetic, Golbat and some others that I may have missed. While you think those mons aren't broken, Eviolite will skew the meta over to Stall WAY too much. Stall is already viable here with Mega Sableye (I think it's a broken mon tbh), Alomomola, Tangrowth, Arceus Rock/Steel, Quag, Clefable, Amoonguss, Tyranitar, Giratina, Lugia, Skarmory, Gliscor, Ditto (with high HP it's not forced to run Scarf) and some more mons that can function with boosted stats. Eviolite will be way too much I think.

Tl;dr I disagree with Eviolite unban.
 
sin(pi), since there's no Groudon sample team yet, here's one for you. This made me peaked to #1, simply because Pdon is so good.
...
Grats to your peak, anyone top 10 has understood the tier.
There is big diversity in poke usuage even at top.

Very good team in my opinion.

M-Sableye is insane, its one of the top 3 HP pokes, both the Foul Play and CM Set can solo win games.
Talonflame is best revenge-killer, its immune to burns and can work with almost any God.
Vaporeon is good bulky water, Very huge HP and great support movepool.
Serperior is self boosting sweeper with decent coverage and lots of speed.
Rhyperior is hard stop to Talonflame and counters many physical sweeper.
Groudon is one of the best pokes 1on1 which beats many Fairy types.

I have not tried Kyurem-White yet, but i see its weaknesses. It has a bad typing, no good moves, SR weak, lack of Speed.

Put it all in one Tier list, judged by overall potential in its position.


Depending on who ends up on the Council for this OM, I'd be willing to make and run Viability Rankings per stat. I'm used to dealing with Monotype's Rankings as I discuss changes constantly, and frankly, I would enjoy managing it. ...
Do so if you like, for me 6 viability rankings look terrible, even more so that the stats are not 100% set.
If you run Kyrum-W your SpA slot has to do alot more than a SpA Groudon slot.


If you wanna nominate a mon to rank up or down, that's fine, but please give reason.
The tier list posted here is so god damm wrong, even by design.
Post 1 poke per boosted stat, which means you put only one stat category in a tier subrank.

it would look like that;
S
M-Sableye
Smeragle
Quagsire
Swellow
Talonflame
M-Heracross

The top 8 players have used 25/30 different pokes.
(2 players outdated replay, discounting gods, + me), those same pokes are M-Sableye, Skarmory, Talonflame, Tyranitar and Vaporeon.
You listed 55 pokes in your list but still missed 7 of those 30 pokes proven to work briliantly.
.
Yes there are working gimnicks like user "AlpacaJP" who is currently #15 on ladder with 1432 elo and uses Giratina (SpA) paired with Attack Bronzong and SpD Conkeldurr.

You will need a D rank since this tier is so hard to make a viability ranking for.
In chase you wonder which pokes you missed;

Kabutops, Politoad,
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-452394405

Klefki, Whilmscott, Latios,
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-449922909

Heatran, Carbink
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454052170

At first, I can agree with unbanning Eviolite. But after looking at the possibility of the mons, I'll say... NO.
Yes, Evolite gives similar stat bonus as Soul Dew, i peaked #1 with a NfE without even holding evolite.





edit 1 quoting went wrong
edit 2 deleted all quoting
edit 3 readded shorted quotes
edit 4 added sprites
edit 5 deleted + corrected huge sprites
edit 6 added a replay of mine
 
Last edited:
At first, I can agree with unbanning Eviolite. But after looking at the possibility of the mons, I'll say... NO.

There are reasons why Eviolite is banned in Extreme Tier Shift and it's an Ubers based meta. This meta gave a similar level of bulk to them. Don't believe me? Let's see some possible problem mons.



With Arceus Special Defense, this now has 105/120/120 Defenses. If you add Eviolite, It will have a bulk similar to Shuckle's but unlike Shuckle, it is NOT passive. Lacking recovery doesn't really matter when it can actually hit hard with 130 Attack.




This thing was UU with pathetic HP and Special Defense, mainly because it provides excellent typing and moves. If you give it Arceus' HP or SpD, It would be a nightmare to handle this thing solely because of excellent typing and it can actually set up SD and attack.


As mentioned, this is already very bulky AND have recovery. If you raise one of it's defenses it would be too tough to break because it has Recovery and with Download, it hits pretty hard.


With HP boost, This provides similar bulk to Porygon2, has recovery AND can actually SD and hit. While it may have SR weakness, this is still very threatening due to the bulk it has.


You may think "ah this thing is still inferior to Gliscor because this can't have PH." That may be true but you need to know that this thing has Immunity, which means it ALSO can't be Toxiced, so you can't really wear it down with status. While it may have a pretty mediocre Attack, tt also has SD and Recovery.

There are many more things that I haven't mentioned like Dusclops, Munchlax, Ferroseed, Piloswine, Tangela, Togetic, Golbat and some others that I may have missed. While you think those mons aren't broken, Eviolite will skew the meta over to Stall WAY too much. Stall is already viable here with Mega Sableye (I think it's a broken mon tbh), Alomomola, Tangrowth, Arceus Rock/Steel, Quag, Clefable, Amoonguss, Tyranitar, Giratina, Lugia, Skarmory, Gliscor, Ditto (with high HP it's not forced to run Scarf) and some more mons that can function with boosted stats. Eviolite will be way too much I think.

Tl;dr I disagree with Eviolite unban.
Don't forget Dusclops. With 120 health or higher and 130 defenses on both sides AND pressure, he'll have no trouble pressure stalling whatever he wants. He also has access to will o wisp to stop physical attackers and can use calm mind/hex if he wants to deal some damage.

252 SpA Choice Specs Swellow Boomburst (180 sp attack) vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Dusclops (120 hp): 156-184 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
132 SpA Dusclops Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swellow: 180-214 (68.9 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
At first, I can agree with unbanning Eviolite. But after looking at the possibility of the mons, I'll say... NO.

There are reasons why Eviolite is banned in Extreme Tier Shift and it's an Ubers based meta. This meta gave a similar level of bulk to them. Don't believe me? Let's see some possible problem mons.



With Arceus Special Defense, this now has 105/120/120 Defenses. If you add Eviolite, It will have a bulk similar to Shuckle's but unlike Shuckle, it is NOT passive. Lacking recovery doesn't really matter when it can actually hit hard with 130 Attack.




This thing was UU with pathetic HP and Special Defense, mainly because it provides excellent typing and moves. If you give it Arceus' HP or SpD, It would be a nightmare to handle this thing solely because of excellent typing and it can actually set up SD and attack.


As mentioned, this is already very bulky AND have recovery. If you raise one of it's defenses it would be too tough to break because it has Recovery and with Download, it hits pretty hard.


With HP boost, This provides similar bulk to Porygon2, has recovery AND can actually SD and hit. While it may have SR weakness, this is still very threatening due to the bulk it has.


You may think "ah this thing is still inferior to Gliscor because this can't have PH." That may be true but you need to know that this thing has Immunity, which means it ALSO can't be Toxiced, so you can't really wear it down with status. While it may have a pretty mediocre Attack, tt also has SD and Recovery.

There are many more things that I haven't mentioned like Dusclops, Munchlax, Ferroseed, Piloswine, Tangela, Togetic, Golbat and some others that I may have missed. While you think those mons aren't broken, Eviolite will skew the meta over to Stall WAY too much. Stall is already viable here with Mega Sableye (I think it's a broken mon tbh), Alomomola, Tangrowth, Arceus Rock/Steel, Quag, Clefable, Amoonguss, Tyranitar, Giratina, Lugia, Skarmory, Gliscor, Ditto (with high HP it's not forced to run Scarf) and some more mons that can function with boosted stats. Eviolite will be way too much I think.

Tl;dr I disagree with Eviolite unban.
ETS has an Eviolite ban because every NFE gets a cumulative +120 boost to their defensive statline and every tiered unevolved Pokemon also gains a hefty overall boost. Several of these Pokemon have to specialize, which leaves some stats underdeveloped.

Some of the Pokemon you listed are promising, but I wouldn't describe any of them has broken. Even with their stat boost of choice, I doubt most of them would even be banned from OU. For one, 3/5 have a x4 weakness, which is workable (see Ho-oh, Landorus) but as a wall, it leaves a gaping hole that attackers can easily take advantage of. Doublade hates Knock Off even more than most Eviolite mons, and Porygon2, while annoying, lacks any form of boosting -- many Pokemon can tank hits from it even after +1 SpAtk from Download. Dusclops, as mentioned above, is literally just Shuckle 2.0: hard to kill but does nothing back. It takes on Swellow? Good, I think that's something we need. In fact, most of those mons fufill the role of "bulky setup sweeper," something this OM really doesn't have right now: you either hit really hard and faster or take hits like a champ. I've seen a little of CM Clef and CM MSab, but not much else. I think it would be a nice change of pace.

I'll repeat this part of my original post:
I'm open to the possibility that Eviolite is still totally busted, but I think everyone can agree that it's not so inherently broken that we shouldn't even give it a chance.
Theorymon all you want, but are any of those Pokemon you posted so intrinsically busted that they'd break the OM? Or are they just potentially promising? Or, and I think this is more likely, do people just not like the idea of a bulky meta? In any case, I don't think there's any harm in unbanning it on the ladder for a few days and letting people vote on it, MnM Blaziken style. I was the one that suggested that unban, and some people flinched at the idea of legal Blaziken but eventually it was unbanned without much fanfare. Again, Eviolite might not be healthy, but no one even gave it a chance, so how could we possibly know?
 
Eviolite is pretty scary, and yet, quite exciting. In addition to the ones already listed...
Golbat becomes even more obnoxious with higher base HP, which was the main thing holding it back.
Onix, while not as aggressive as Rhydon is, can still achieve pretty crazy physical bulk, which makes it very reliable at setting rocks up.
Magneton becomes incredible with access to Eviolite, having access to 120/90/75 bulk + Eviolite, making it devastating as a bulky attacker, as long as you keep it away from Earthquake. Magnet Rise makes Dugtrio and Excadrill switch-ins cry.
Larion gains physical bulk even moreso than Rhydon, and is still not passive. It has common weaknesses, though.
Metang is also threatening in that HP slot. It can boost, but is particularly threatened by Knock Off. Pretty non-passive for such a bulky Steel type, however.
Dragonair... let me just say that this has Rest, Shed Skin, and Dragon Dance, and it was not exactly frail in standard play with Eviolite....
Lickitung is one of the few that is already bulky enough to afford boosting up its offenses. It also can wish pass pretty effectively.

That's just the tip of the iceburg for the unevolved mons. I have my own nominations:
Unranked -> B+
Unranked- -> B/B+

I talked about Suicune before, and how good it is in that Special Attack slot. It takes on stall magnificently, only really struggling with Clefable and Tangrowth. It struggles with a bit more on offensive teams, such as Serperior and Xerneas, but can still set up on a significant amount of mons, and even if it lacks that sort of time, Scalds from 120-170 base SpA are not really appreciated, when they would only just sting before.

Hippowdon is great in the Special Defense slot, and suddenly just doesn't care about all sorts of coverage Electric types can throw at it, using that time to get up rocks or roar the team around. It also makes a mockery of Deoxys-A, and takes a Swellow Boomburst (not well, but it still can in a pinch).

Also, any reason why something as passive as Bastiodion is ranked? I haven't seen one in my time playing, and it would be almost as good to set up on as Shuckle, if it lacks Roar. It also can't heal outside of rest, which is a big minus.
 
Last edited:
I think that eviolite should be given a chance, as mindless HO is extremely strong. I want a more equal tier on all sides, which unbanning eviolite might help with. However, HO isn't complete widespread like priority is in Return'd. We allow for stat-boosting items like light ball and that isn't broken. This meta should have a nice balance between Offense and Defense since each side gets 3 stats to work with. With eviolive being banned and defense only having leftovers and AV maybe unbanning eviolite will give defense a fair shot
 
If you wanna nominate a mon to rank up or down, that's fine, but please give reason.
Nominating:
(Attack) Unranked -> C
I find that Azumarill tends to get overlooked in metagames where it can't run its flagship ability. But it still has a lot of other great factors, like a solid type, priority, a handy ability, and good power if using a gifted Attack stat. Just by scrolling through the viability rankings you can see it matches up well against a lot of common threats (Mega Sableye, Mega Heracross, Serperior, Mega Diancie, Crawdaunt, Kingdra, etc. not to mention some of the Dragons in Ubers). It can play the priority game too, and although it is outprioritized by most threats, Aqua Jet lets it beat some frailer Pokemon like Swellow. It's also one of the best/only switch-ins to Serperior, and Ho-Oh stall teams can just slap this on if they choose, although it's pretty underwhelming with only 120 base Attack. It also has sooo much competition for the Attack slot. But it's definitely rank-worthy imo

(Speed) Unranked -> C-
You might be wondering what the reason to use this over Rampardos is, and I can think of a couple. The first one is Rock Head, which is pretty minor but definitely nifty. The main reason is that Aggron takes the most common priority attacks in the metagame much better, and is less likely to be overwhelmed by them, letting Aggron get a lot more mileage against offensive teams. Here's some calcs so you can see the difference.

252+ Atk Choice Band 180 Attack Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rampardos: 312-367 (93.1 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band 180 Attack Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 61-72 (21.7 - 25.6%) -- 2.4% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Light Ball 180 Attack Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rampardos: 185-218 (55.2 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Light Ball 180 Attack Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 36-43 (12.8 - 15.3%) -- possible 7HKO
Smeargle's FakeSpeed can actually KO Rampardos after Stealth Rock

You get the idea. With Aggron taking no recoil damage, less priority damage, and less Stealth Rock damage, it can be a niche choice that fares a bit better against offense teams. With a Choice Band, it still does enough damage to most mons on offensive teams. It's rather weak overall, however. Once again, lots of competition for the Speed slot.

B- -> C-
I get why it's there: Soundproof lets it be a Swellow "switch-in". I use quotation marks because HP Fighting is a great coverage move for it. And if you gift it HP it becomes really bulky, but it's basically a Sh*ckle (pardon my French) situation here. It's passive and has a shitty defensive typing. Although it can kill Mega Diancie, it basically falls flat against other defensive Pokemon. Not to mention the fact that it has quadruple weaknesses unlike other bulky passive Pokemon, circumventing its great bulk.
 
Probably because sin(pi) didn't tag TI>

The Immortal can you ban Shadow Tag in response to this post?

Some updates:
Shadow Tag and Soul Dew are banned (Gengarite remained unbanned as previously stated). I've edited the OP and the VRs to reflect this. I also moved Kyurem-W down to A because frankly I don't think it's on the same level as the other S ranks.
(Soul Dew has actually been banned for a while but I never got round to posting about it)

I'm also pleased to announce that I've established a council of myself, Funbot28, Chopin Alkaninoff, iLlama, and Niadev to help with VR, suspects, etc! This month has been extremely busy for me so I haven't been able to dedicate much time to it, and their help is invaluable.
Also I'm open to Eviolite suspect btw, so don't take me as completely opposed guy that doesn't want any test.
 
Well, seeing as how Shadow Tag will eventually be banned, I figured I'd just post this team here to share with you all. Also I'll post this here for those people I've seen use it themselves on the ladder / asked for it, in case Goth doesn't get banned for whatever reason (also totally to one-up Chopin kek):
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Defog
- Iron Head

Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Fake Out
- Toxic

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 64 HP / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Trick

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
The first team that I've built was a bad Gira stall team with Sableye. Although I didn't see much success with that team, it opened my eyes to the god that is Alomomola [
]. With a solid defense stat and Special Defense investment, it checks pretty much nearly any Pokemon in the game. This includes (but is not limited to): Primal Groudon, Mega Heracross, EKiller, Deoxys-Attack [252 SpA Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 333-393 (62.3 - 73.5%)], Hoopa-Unbound [No NP!], Lugia, Giratina, Ho-Oh, both Mewtwo Megas, [252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Alomomola: 166-196 (31 - 36.7%)], Talonflame, Smeargle [252+ Atk Life Orb Smeargle Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Alomomola: 179-212 (33.5 - 39.7%)], Mega Pinsir [252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Alomomola: 186-219 (34.8 - 41%)], Rampardos, Linoone, the list goes on. Essentially, if you don't have a setup or status, you're never taking this thing down. Next, I wanted a good physically tanky Pokemon to pass a great stat onto Alomomola. Seeing as Primal Groudon [
] is broken in everything that it's allowed in, I immediately chose it to be my 'God' Pokemon. I don't think I need to explain how good this Pokemon is, its way too good. Excellent vs all playstyles. After Gothitelle trapped I initially had Rock Polish over Substitute but I swapped it out after realising I prefer beating Mola and the great amount of pressure it creates. Next, I slapped on Skarmory [
] to check Clefable, Serperior, most Arceus forms, Extreme-Speed users, Deoxys-Attack and the like. Tyranitar [
] followed shortly afterwards primarily just for Swellow. It's the most expendable of my team but comes in handy Pursuit-trapping pesky mons like Swellow + STag users. I chose Lopunny [
] as my mega so my matchup vs Offense and those generic HO teams is a lot better. Fake Out + Quick Attack was so very powerful vs those frail mons. However, I then swapped out Quick Attack for Toxic as Deo-A teams fell in popularity and Stall became more popular. It's to catch Clefable + Alomomola on the switch-in, helping in stalling out Heal Bell PP / their HP. Gothitelle [
], the last mon, is my best stall answer. It can so very easily switch in and elimiate two / three of their mons in 1 game. I think we all know how this Pokemon works, so I won't go too in-depth on how it works. However, its EV spread is tailored to be able to trap Pikachu, live its Extreme-Speed and have a 100% chance to OHKO with Psyshock. Max Speed is in order to function as a decently useful revenge killer against stuff like Serperior.
Threats:
[Mega Sableye]: No switch-ins into this little shit. Beating stall is more a case of preying on its teammates with Goth + and setting up PDon / kick things with Lopunny.
[Certain PDon sets]: Solar Beam / Substitute sets can beat Mola 1v1, which leaves me to no checks to this thing. Essentially if the fish dies you lose once this sets up. If its defensive then its more manageable.
(Can't think of anything else atm)

Replay vs jrdn: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-453828345
(Literally the only replay I could find, really shows the power of Gothitelle)
Replay vs Squeetz: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454509638
(Another game where Goth puts in work. Switches into Shuckle and wins the game automatically. Just one of the reasons I think Shuckle is awful)
 
Last edited:

iLlama

Nothing personal, I protect my people
Threats:
[Mega Sableye]: No switch-ins into this little shit. Beating stall is more a case of preying on its teammates with Goth + and setting up PDon / kick things with Lopunny.
I wonder who abused that weakness...



But seriously, this a really good team. Very dangerous. Unfortunately, some of the other players that have been using it don't really know how to use it effectively.
 
A few moments ago i battled "easyname" , he paired M-Sableye with Dugtrio.
Thats a great combo, as Dugtrio gets rid of M-Diancle.

For me Shadow Tag is no big deal, i did not used it and i never faced it in 95 battles, neither i think their users are good.
M-Sableye also hard counters Gothitelle.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
A few moments ago i battled "easyname" , he paired M-Sableye with Dugtrio.
Thats a great combo, as Dugtrio gets rid of M-Diancle.

For me Shadow Tag is no big deal, i did not used it and i never faced it in 95 battles, neither i think their users are good.
M-Sableye also hard counters Gothitelle.
theres no such thing as a counter to gothitelle because it traps and kills whatever it is supposed to,,,
like look at scarfnaut's replay vs jrdn. the guy had an yveltal but goth still put in the work
 
It is my opinion that Trick is a very good move to have in this meta. It not only counters gross super hp shuckle soundly, but it also is quite useful for other evil set up mons. I don't have the reqs, but it's my opinion that shucks should stay. I haven't had an issue with him once.
 
Thought I might share a team now that I've stopped running gimmick sets and actually tried to win some matches. ive had a few people say my team is a lot like chopin alkaninoff's but the only sets they share are sableye, which is the standard set anyway. i guess its the rhyperior, probably doesn't show up very often but a great pokemon nonetheless.


Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Foul Play

Probably the best stat receiving pokemon right now. very easy to use and pretty self explanatory but it serves as the only hazard control for the team so its pretty important to keep it healthy and know when the correct time to switch in is. Try not to absorb too many scalds- let serperior do that, a burn will only make things harder for it to stay alive.


Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Memento
- Sucker Punch

Honestly dugtrio is very situational so it doesnt always put in work, but it can be very clutch in some situations, like getting rid of groudon >60% health. Talonflame could really work in this spot but remember there is no defog so play carefully if you do that. Dugtrio can also trap and deal a ton of damage to opposing tyranitar, rhyperior and kill diancie outright too.

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

When i first started i would use wailord because its funny and has great health, but alomomola only has -5 hp and way better ability and moves so its certainly worth the comical relief thats foregon with swapping out a blimp whale. you can put more evs in special defense but water typing often finds itself switching in on physical attacks so its probably worth keeping it physically based. max hp is a nice perk for healing other team mates if need be with wish.

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse

Subseed gives serperior a lot more staying power and it means you can stall out things like ho-oh if you leech seed or set up a substitute when it switches in. i will struggle with heatran and azumarill will ruin this set though, the latter taking 0 damage from all moves. The evs out speed max base 110's but you can bump it up to tie with other serperior if you want. There isnt a whole lot between 110 and 113 except thundurus but i havent seen many of those so its either 252 or 232 i suppose.

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Metal Burst /Fire punch

Rhyperior is a god send for switching in on specs swellow and similar pokemon. Metal burst smacks xerneas after a geomancy and deals with things the other moves can't touch. Try not to let him die until after strong special attackers are gone as they pressure this team alot and sableye can only come in so many times. Fire punch is a nice alternative to hit skarmory, scizor, etc. but dont risk it with ferrothorn as power whip and 2 rounds of iron barbs nearly ohkos you.

Arceus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw

Standard e-killer arceus. You would think something would want to inherit the speed slot but this team works fine so there's no problems there. Lum berry is more useful than a life orb i find, as he just dies too quickly otherwise and a swords dance gives you plenty of power anyway.

Threats-
Azumarill- now that it runs sap sipper all the time and runs special attacks, there isnt really a safe switch in if it has received a high special attack.
Skarmory- can really be a pain to deal with since there isnt many super effective hits for it on this team. talonflame could possibly alleviate this with flare blitz
Giratina-O- between draco meteor and will o wisp it can be a pain to know what to switch in on it but once the sp attack drop is done mega sableye can handle it
Mega Diancie- easy to check but not to counter, rhyperior is probably best switch in

most of these are low ladder- cant find high level opponents. oh well, they showcase unpredictability i guess
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454371030
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454373241
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454375587
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454380212
 
Last edited:
Nominations:
S -> A+

180 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Technician Smeargle Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
180 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Smeargle Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 220-261 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Smeargle is destruction. One of the best late game cleaners. Best FakEspeed.
I tried a Chilan Berry set instead of Silk Scarf, and it works nicely lol



Destroyer (Smeargle) @ Chilan Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 68 Def / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Bonemerang
- Spiky Shield

Spiky Shield to stop Fake Out or break sashes on mons like Deo-A or opposing Smeargles.
Bonemerang for Ghost Types (oneshots non physdef bulky aegislash from full).
Chilan Berry makes Smeargle win a mirror matchup or a (weakened) Arceus/Deo-A matchup, with this spread it can live Banded Adamant Arceus and Silk Scarf Smeargle Extremespeed from full, and live weaker ones even after 1-2 switch ins on Stealth Rocks.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-451016257
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/giftsofthegods-454458164
 

Imperator Romanum

formerly Grains of Salt
This whole eviolite discussion is ignoring the fact that,

1. They still have glaring flaws, most of them are passive as fuck or lack recovery.

2. Knock off is a thing, you know that right? After that all of them are outclassed.

I'd like to see eviolite retested. This tier enjoys ruining stall, I'd like to see a buff.
 
So I wanted to make some nominations for Pokemon that I think should be on on the viability rankings


UR to C (Speed)
I think Manaphy has a niche in this this metagame as a sweeper for offensive teams. Now why would you use this? Well there aren´t that many viable offensive waters on speed in this meta which makes Manaphy stand out. It`s also a setup sweeper that can be devastating lategame. The set would probably be it´s standard OU Tail glow set as calm mind is mostly outclassed by Suicune. However Manaphy is weak to priority from things like Smeargle,Talonflame and Linoone. It also has to rely on speed ties to beat other Deoxys speed pokemon if Manaphy is even being used on a Deo-A team. Overall I think Manaphy fits fine in C because it has a niche but is not amazing.


UR to C+ (Defence, Special Attack)
Like Manaphy, Volcarona is also a threatning setup sweeper in the late game. Volcarona would most likely be used on offensive teams with gods with good defence, such as Arceus. With the defence boost, Volcarona is less weak to priority and has an easier time setting up on things. It can also be used on special attack if you want to have a bit more power. It can also setup on utility mega Sableye freely which is great because it is a really strong and common mon. Volcarona does however have weaknesses that keep it from being great. It´s weakness to rocks means it needs hazard removal support and it just dies to Talonflame. But I think it has enough merits for it to be C+.


And that´s it. I hope it was not a complete disaster.
 
eviolite getting unbanned would be a very bad decision.. as if stally plasystyles need a buff with how dominant they are... if anything needs looking at make it Mega Sableye..
This tier enjoys ruining stall, I'd like to see a buff.
???????????????
literally the only ban that affects stall is removing chansey/blissey because they're objectively broken beyond belief.. dont tell me u support them being unbanned as well lol
but aja defending stall to no end doesnt really surprise me anymore
 
I would love to see eviolite unbanned. While stall is strong, there's not anything in the metagame that that can defensively deal with nidoking on a deoxys-a team for instance. there's no way to reliably beat a serperior+diancie or serperior/clefable combo that can guarantee rocks. tyrantrum can turn stall into a pile of jelly. life is hard. maybe eviolite will open up some options.

at the risk of it becoming a complex ban, i dont see any reason why an eviolite user at the very least cant be allowed in the attack, special attack or speed slots. for instance if i wanted to use a fast doublade, i dont know why that would be banned. but i would be interested in seeing the ban totally lifted. give us pory2!

edit: on your viability rankings i think tyranitar should absolutely be A tier minimum. it deals with both of those asshole S tier birds and can ohko them with pursuit with just a small amount of attack investment (when inheriting from groudon for instance), or none if you have stealth rocks up. i use it on most teams and it has never not pulled its weight. i dont believe anyone has given a good enough explanation for shuckle to be A but im not gunna talk about it anymore :T and i think both nidos deserve a decent ranking for being totally unwallable by the entire metagame when inheriting 150+ spa and therefore good stallbreakers. i think atm the viability ranking is kinda full of novelties (stuff like electrode isnt actually good in practice because it has no offensive coverage, and i dont think specially defensive quagsire is very useful since the meta seems more physically offensive so far and if a mon is specially offensive its not boosting anyway, ususally to keep up with the powerful physical priority like tflame that can easily revenge it- its stuff like swellow that just takes single hits and will take out a spd quagsire either way. pikachu, marowak? linoone?)
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top