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Haxorus

yea but when the item choice on the set is 4 different items it will be your preference. on this set i will use leftovers or lum berry w/o thinking of being killed by a garchomp. remember now theres over 100 good pokemon to use in battle.
 
True, I've been running the bulky DD set on a Dual Screens team. So with the screens Lefties aren't really needed and at +2 attack I don't need Life Orb. Haban berry allows it to either set up another DD or not get revenged by a Dragon and continue it's Outrage sweep once Skarm is out of the way. (And Balloon Doryuuzu I suppose)
 
Honestly I've got to agree with Axel. Onono really doesn't need that much attack. He's got enough to attack to destroy mostly everything, but not enough to hurt walls. He just doesn't have the muscle to break through the metagame and his defensive prowess is horrible. He really, really, really needs that extra bulk.

Magnezone is a great partner for obvious reasons.
 
Ono OHKOs everything but Skarmory, Natto, and Forry after an SD, all of which it 2HKOs with Outrage, so it can hurt walls pretty badly. If you were referring to the DD set, then you're right, but the SD set does require 252 Atk.
 
Here is a quick log of a battle I had on PO earlier using my personal Ono set alongside it's centralized wifi, local tourney, and PO team. The Ono set is bulky, and the teammates are meant to break specific threats that plague it.

note- Tentacruel is usually not featured on the team as it's mostly a counter pick for specific things, but I wen't on ahead and just let him ride it out.

note #2- Onono comes in on turn 14.
Battle between Nfir and AxelLow started!

Tier: OverUsed
Variation: +28, -31
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Self-KO Clause

AxelLow sent out Kojondo!
Nfir sent out Gengar!

Start of turn 1
The foe's Gengar used Shadow Ball!
Kojondo lost 223 HP! (81% of its health)

Kojondo used U-turn!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Gengar lost 11% of its health!
AxelLow called Kojondo back!
AxelLow sent out Scizor!

Start of turn 2
The foe's Gengar used Destiny Bond!
The foe's Gengar is trying to take its foe with it!

Scizor used U-turn!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Gengar lost 42% of its health!
AxelLow called Scizor back!
AxelLow sent out Tentacruel!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Gengar used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
Tentacruel lost 162 HP! (44% of its health)

Tentacruel used Toxic Spikes!
Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of Nfir's team!

Tentacruel restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Gengar used Destiny Bond!
The foe's Gengar is trying to take its foe with it!

Tentacruel used Toxic Spikes!
Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of Nfir's team!

Tentacruel restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
The foe's Gengar used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
Tentacruel lost 166 HP! (45% of its health)

Tentacruel used Surf!
The foe's Gengar lost 46% of its health!
The foe's Gengar fainted!

Tentacruel restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Nfir sent out Starmie!
The foe's Starmie was poisoned!

Start of turn 6
The foe's Starmie used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
Tentacruel lost 102 HP! (28% of its health)
Tentacruel fainted!

The foe's Starmie is hurt by poison!
AxelLow sent out Bronzong!

Start of turn 7
Nfir called Starmie back!
Nfir sent out Roserade!
The poison spikes disappeared around the foe's Roserade's feet!

Bronzong used Light Screen!
Light Screen raised AxelLow's team special defense!

Start of turn 8
The foe's Roserade used Leech Seed!
Bronzong was seeded!

Bronzong used Reflect!
Reflect raised AxelLow's team defense!

Bronzong's health is sapped by leech seed.

Start of turn 9
The foe's Roserade used Substitute!
The foe's Roserade made a substitute!

Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
The foe's Roserade's substitute faded!

The foe's Roserade restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
Bronzong's health is sapped by leech seed.

Start of turn 10
The foe's Roserade used Substitute!
The foe's Roserade made a substitute!

Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
The foe's Roserade's substitute faded!

The foe's Roserade restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
Bronzong's health is sapped by leech seed.

Start of turn 11
AxelLow called Bronzong back!
AxelLow sent out Kojondo!

The foe's Roserade used Substitute!
The foe's Roserade made a substitute!

The foe's Roserade restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!

Start of turn 12
Kojondo used Taunt!
The foe's Roserade fell for the taunt!

The foe's Roserade used Sludge Bomb!
Kojondo lost 49 HP! (18% of its health)
Kojondo fainted!

The foe's Roserade restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!
AxelLow sent out Bronzong!

Start of turn 13
Nfir called Roserade back!
Nfir sent out Urugamosu!

Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Urugamosu lost 27% of its health!
The foe's Urugamosu's Flame Body activates!
Bronzong was burned!

The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Bronzong is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 14
The foe's Urugamosu used Butterfly Dance!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Def. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Speed rose!

Bronzong used Explosion!
Bronzong fainted!
The foe's Urugamosu lost 78% of its health!
The foe's Urugamosu fainted!

AxelLow's light screen wore off!
AxelLow sent out Ononokusu!

Nfir sent out Bronzong!

Ononokusu has Mold Breaker!

Start of turn 15
Ononokusu used Dragon Dance!
Ononokusu's Attack rose!
Ononokusu's Speed rose!

The foe's Bronzong used Reflect!
Reflect raised Nfir's team defense!

AxelLow's reflect wore off!

Start of turn 16
Ononokusu used Dragon Dance!
Ononokusu's Attack rose!
Ononokusu's Speed rose!

The foe's Bronzong used Gyro Ball!
Ononokusu lost 142 HP! (42% of its health)

Start of turn 17
Ononokusu used Earthquake!
It's super effective!
The foe's Bronzong lost 56% of its health!

The foe's Bronzong used Explosion!
The foe's Bronzong fainted!
Ononokusu lost 184 HP! (54% of its health)

Nfir sent out Flygon!

Start of turn 18
Ononokusu used Dragon Claw!
It's super effective!
The foe's Flygon lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Flygon fainted!

Nfir sent out Starmie!

Start of turn 19
Ononokusu used Outrage!
The foe's Starmie lost 83% of its health!
The foe's Starmie fainted!

Nfir sent out Roserade!

Start of turn 20
The foe's Roserade used Protect!
The foe's Roserade protected itself!

Ononokusu used Outrage!
The foe's Roserade protected itself!

The foe's Roserade restored a little HP using its Black Sludge!

Start of turn 21
Ononokusu used Outrage!

Guy ragequits before the rest happens, but Roserade was his last poke. My other pokes would have broken any other attemps really.
 
Well, that is because the guy rage quit afterwards. The last poke he had was roserade, and thus, would have been swept. He could have gotten lucky with another possible protect, but my last pokemon would have taken him out anyway. Which, if your wondering, is Mixed Mence. Not to mention scizor as well xP.
 
People are trying REALLY hard to make Onono a better poke than it is...

Maybe the days of Dragon setups are just over guys. The only way Onono's becoming a major factor is if the banlist includes Ditto, Breloom, Doryuuzu, and everything else that eats this type of pokemon for dinner.

If your setup isn't gonna survive an unboosted Doryquake, the pokemon's got issues. If it can survive, I want to see it sweep anywhere near as potently as Dory. If it can't, then it should at least resist Mach Punch. Onono doesn't.
 
Who's making him out to be any stronger then he already is? If anything, Im playing him because I enjoy playing him, regardless of how strong he is. From that stand point he isn't weak, and can fit well in what ever placement (outside of Ubers) he's in. Even though Ditto revenges just about everything, it's simply just one of the things I'll have to deal with when running Onono, or let alone any setup sweeper. Breloom is cool and all, but there are ways to break around it, as well as Doryuuzu, as I see neither of them broken.

Despite all that though, I wouldn't just give-up on him, let alone try to make him out any stronger then he already is. I know his weakness, so I play towards his strengths, which, is how any team should be played.
 
Don't underestimate Ono by any means. I know from firsthand experience that without your token Steel, he can fuck your shit raw. Even if you do have it, keep it healthy and make sure it's not EQ weak.
 
@GravityZero: Have you read the thread? Ono's drawbacks have already been discussed, and the reasons why it's actually good for the most part. That post contributed nothing to this thread.
Ono can:
1.Break walls with Swords Dance+Taunt
2.Boost its speed so that it can outspeed faster pokemon that might try to KO it
3.Hit extremely hard with a Choice Band

Ono can:
1.Get revenge killed by Ditto or stopped by Erufuun unless its choiced (as can any other setup sweeper)
2.Get revenge killed by Breloom/Scizor (bulky sets don't really care so much and can OHKO)
3.Die to Doryuuzu (what setup sweeper doesn't, besides Randorosu)

@AxelLow: It takes 54% from Explosion? What...
*Tries it in team immediately*
 
I know you're not trying to make him seem better, you play effectively and all, but there's no benefit in sliding EVs around to make a Mence in a generation where such a pokemon's existence is fundamentally impossible. After his info was released, people screamed uber. Right now, it's looking at low-mid OU if things improve, BL at worst. The 5th gen metagame doesn't seem to be accepting setup as an option except against really crappy teams, the exceptions solely being a well-played Zoroark, a Balloon Doryuuzu after the Mach Punchers have been candlejack'd, Genosect/Scizor, and sometimes Curse Nattorei.
 
GravityZero said:
I know you're not trying to make him seem better, you play effectively and all, but there's no benefit in sliding EVs around to make a Mence in a generation where such a pokemon's existence is fundamentally impossible. After his info was released, people screamed uber. Right now, it's looking at low-mid OU if things improve, BL at worst. The 5th gen metagame doesn't seem to be accepting setup as an option except against really crappy teams, the exceptions solely being a well-played Zoroark, a Balloon Doryuuzu after the Mach Punchers have been candlejack'd, Genosect/Scizor, and sometimes Curse Nattorei.
Click to expand...

Well then you're arguments would apply to most any other set up sweeper as well, especially other dragons. Besides, Ono can make a very devastating Choice Bander.

Any set up sweeper has to be careful about opposing Ditto and Mischievous Heart users, and it's not like Dragon Dancers are "fundamentally impossible" now all of a sudden as you say. Once Ditto/Erufuun is out of the way the way they should be just as devastating. In fact, since Dragons have such good coverage with just their STAB and one or two coverage moves to deal with Steels, they should easily be able to fit Substitute onto their sets to mess with Ditto easier than many other set up sweepers.
 
GravityZero said:
I know you're not trying to make him seem better, you play effectively and all, but there's no benefit in sliding EVs around to make a Mence in a generation where such a pokemon's existence is fundamentally impossible. After his info was released, people screamed uber. Right now, it's looking at low-mid OU if things improve, BL at worst. The 5th gen metagame doesn't seem to be accepting setup as an option except against really crappy teams, the exceptions solely being a well-played Zoroark, a Balloon Doryuuzu after the Mach Punchers have been candlejack'd, Genosect/Scizor, and sometimes Curse Nattorei.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok. It's all cool then. I agree that in order to play setup sweepers in gen 5 you need to be very precise with your play, and have to work around those problems mentioned. At best, yes, he'll be about mid OU, possibly upper-Mid, and a slight chance at High (not to be confused with Top). BL or Low-mid at worst for sure.

But investing his stats with standard sweeper EV's aren't very solid, and are somewhat more luck based, which, IMO, I dont enjoy as much in 5th gen compared to 4th. Arguably, you need a more stable sweeper in 5th gen, which is what my EV spreads usually go for with Ono, so he's not so much as a glass cannon. Although, glass cannons are still possible though, by far, but usually you have to have a team centralized around them to work efficiently(or a select few pokemon for support). Same could be said with any DD Ono set as it requires a bit more focus then most.

Forgot what else I was going to type since I was occupied with something else, but yea, Ono is still good when played well. I wouldn't say setup is difficult this gen, but, a bit more challenging as you have to watch out for specific threats (such as ditto), and be able to play around them.

Edit@ Cosmic, and SJ- Lol, yes you can have it survive explosion, and such even when just running with 100 Atk, and 80 Spe EV's. Also, the set is a bit different from my other sets which lives through things a bit more,and thus, haven't shown it to anyone yet. Although, figuring out the changes isn't too difficult with a bit of research. Although, surviving explosion was something I didn't plan for either since I never calc'ed it. Mind you, even my reflect was down 0_0
 
cosmicexplorer said:
So you're saying that setup is impossible in Gen 5?
Click to expand...
No. Setup isn't impossible, you just have to make sure of 1 things when you're setting up: You have the ability to vanquish the monster your create.

Here's a match I just had, a typical Gen V match (name erased to protect his identity):
Battle between (undisclosed name) and GravityZero started!

Tier: OverUsed
Variation: +18, -13
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Self-KO Clause

GravityZero sent out Hippowdon!
sent out Borutorosu!
Hippowdon's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!


Okay, first mistake: Leading with a Borutorosu. Kiddies, Mischievous Heart leads are dumb. It only worked on day one, now people just kill your lead. You suicide a lead and don't even get SR for it.

Start of turn 1
The foe's Borutorosu used Taunt!
Hippowdon fell for the taunt!

Hippowdon used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
The foe's Borutorosu lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Borutorosu fainted!


Like I said, DON'T USE MISCHIEVOUS HEART LEADS.

The sandstorm rages!
sent out Breloom!


Second Mistake: Sending out Breloom this early. Breloom's a powerful endgamer and anti-sweeper but shouldn't be revealed this quickly, because Breloom's movepool (excluding Spore) only covers so much and I'm gonna switch something in that resists Bullet Seed.

Start of turn 2
GravityZero called Hippowdon back!
GravityZero sent out Skarmory!


My First Mistake: Sending out Skarm. Poor thing is gonna get Spore'd...

The foe's Breloom used Bullet Seed!
It's not very effective...
Skarmory lost 12 HP! (3% of its health)
Skarmory lost part of its armor!
Skarmory's Defense fell!
Skarmory's Speed rose!
A critical hit!
Skarmory lost 40 HP! (12% of its health)
Skarmory lost part of its armor!
Skarmory's Defense fell!
Skarmory's Speed rose!
Skarmory lost 26 HP! (7% of its health)
Skarmory lost part of its armor!
Skarmory's Defense fell!
Skarmory's Speed rose!
Hit 3 times!
Skarmory used its Red Card on the foe's Breloom!
The foe's Slowbro was dragged out!


... except he didn't use Spore. He used Bullet Seed. Tyvm for the 437 speed, and switching yourself out to a random poke.

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Slowbro is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Slowbro restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 3
Skarmory used Toxic!
The foe's Slowbro was poisoned!

The foe's Slowbro used Thunder Wave!
Skarmory is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Slowbro is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Slowbro restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Slowbro is hurt by poison!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Slowbro used Boil Over!
Skarmory lost 87 HP! (26% of its health)
Skarmory lost part of its armor!
Skarmory's Defense fell!
Skarmory's Speed rose!

Skarmory is paralyzed! It can't move!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Slowbro is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Slowbro restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Slowbro is hurt by poison!

Start of turn 5
called Slowbro back!
sent out Espeon!


^ A good move. Skarm has one option against Espy, and it's only got 187 attack fueling it. Meanwhile, my Defense stat is dirt, so Psycho Shock could hurt a bit...


Skarmory used Whirlwind!
Skarmory's Whirlwind was bounced back by Magic Mirror!
Deoxys-S was dragged out!
Deoxys-S is exerting its Pressure!


... except I was (fortunately) phazing. Deoxys-S is prolly my second worst Espeon matchup on a team with a lot that can OHKO it. First place for worst nightmare goes to Breloom.

The sandstorm rages!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Espeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!


I'll keep my cool though, Deoxys-S has a trick up it's sleeve

Start of turn 6
Deoxys-S used Pursuit!
It's super effective!
The foe's Espeon lost 26% of its health!

The foe's Espeon used Substitute!
The foe's Espeon made a substitute!

The sandstorm rages!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Espeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!


RAWR. That Pursuit is actually meant to stop CandleJack's escape, but this time it'll work. Hopefully.

Start of turn 7
Deoxys-S used Pursuit!
It's super effective!
The foe's Espeon's substitute took the damage!


CRAP! NEED. MOAR. ATTACK. EVS.

The foe's Espeon used Baton Pass!
called Espeon back!
sent out Urugamosu!


Ok, a really bad situation just got a bright spot. Urugamosu has two possible tactics: Butterfly Dance, or Choice. I don't care which, I just need it's sub to be broken NOW.

The sandstorm rages!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8
Deoxys-S used Pursuit!
The foe's Urugamosu's substitute faded!


WIN!

The foe's Urugamosu used Butterfly Dance!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Def. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Speed rose!


K, now I know your set. This could be bad news...

The sandstorm rages!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 9
Deoxys-S used Pursuit!
The foe's Urugamosu lost 13% of its health!
The foe's Urugamosu's Flame Body activates!
Deoxys-S was burned!

Ugh. Unfortunate. Well, I'll stay in, whatever damage I do will help Ditto KO this thing. Switching out is a waste of a pokemon, this guy's obviously not running Dory if he has Raijin and Uruga so I don't need Deoxys anymore.

The foe's Urugamosu used Butterfly Dance!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Def. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Speed rose!


WHOA. Is he STILL boosting? LOL! Yeah, I'm keeping Deoxys in. Ditto will do damage.

The sandstorm rages!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-S is hurt by its burn!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10
Deoxys-S used Pursuit!
The foe's Urugamosu lost 6% of its health!

The foe's Urugamosu used Substitute!
The foe's Urugamosu made a substitute!


Ugh. Sub. Ok, damage the sub. I do about 6% a hit so that put Breloom's Mach Punch should clear Ditto's sweep.

The sandstorm rages!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-S is hurt by its burn!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 11
Deoxys-S used Pursuit!
The foe's Urugamosu's substitute took the damage!

The foe's Urugamosu used Butterfly Dance!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Sp. Def. rose!
The foe's Urugamosu's Speed rose!


Wha-WHAT!!! NO WAY! TY FREE SWEEP! At this point i'd willingly let him keep on boosting if I could kill his subs in one shot. Anyway, I'm doing about 12% with Deoxys' Pursuit before Breloom comes in, so the sub break's guaranteed.

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Deoxys-S is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Deoxys-S is hurt by its burn!

Start of turn 12
The foe's Urugamosu used Flame Dance!
Deoxys-S lost 46 HP! (19% of its health)
Deoxys-S fainted!


K, he stopped +3. WAY too much boost. If he's not running Aqua Jet Azumarill, he's already doomed himself.

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
GravityZero sent out Breloom!


"Oi thar. My name's Loomy and I happen to be a priority sacrif-... WHAT?!? NO I DON'T WANNA DIE!!!"

Start of turn 13
Breloom used Mach Punch!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Urugamosu's substitute faded!


GG?

The foe's Urugamosu used Bug Buzz!
Breloom lost 235 HP! (90% of its health)
Breloom fainted!


GFG. Loomy's out of the way, probably cursing my name as he goes down. But his death was necessary. It clears the way for Ditto to come in - no Sub, no problems.

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Urugamosu is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Urugamosu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
GravityZero sent out Ditto!

Ditto transformed into Urugamosu!


"Saluations. Name's Private First Class Ditto. I've gained a reputation for being able to f*** everything that reproduces - now I'm going to f*** your team."

Start of turn 14
Ditto used Flame Dance!
A critical hit!
The foe's Urugamosu lost 54% of its health!
The foe's Urugamosu fainted!


Nice crit. No unnecessary HP lost by Ditto on it's first turn. Moreso, he didn't switch, so there's no Flash Fires on his team. Good game indeed.

The sandstorm rages!
Ditto is buffeted by the sandstorm!
sent out Warubiaru!

The foe's Warubiaru intimidates Ditto!
Ditto's Attack fell!

Start of turn 15
Ditto used Flame Dance!
The foe's Warubiaru lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Warubiaru fainted!


One down. Was expecting something weird, like STAB Sucker Punch.

The sandstorm rages!
Ditto is buffeted by the sandstorm!
sent out Slowbro!


Should have been first out. K, lets see what +3 Sp. Def withstands.

Start of turn 16
Ditto used Flame Dance!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Slowbro lost 58% of its health!
Ditto's Sp. Att. rose!


OSH-!

The foe's Slowbro used Boil Over!
It's super effective!
Ditto lost 74 HP! (24% of its health)


"Excuse me waiter. The meal is good, but this sauce: it's a bit weak. Please tell the chef to prepare better sauce next time"

The sandstorm rages!
Ditto is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Slowbro is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Slowbro restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's Slowbro is hurt by poison!

Start of turn 17
Ditto used Flame Dance!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Slowbro lost 35% of its health!
The foe's Slowbro fainted!


K. Two down. PP restrictions are evil, 2 pokes left and only 1 Flame Dance.

The sandstorm rages!
Ditto is buffeted by the sandstorm!
sent out Breloom!

Start of turn 18
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
It's not very effective...
Ditto lost 87 HP! (29% of its health)
Ditto's Flame Body activates!
The foe's Breloom was burned!


Lol... payback. Wont affect the match but feels good.

Ditto used Flame Dance!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Breloom lost 100% of its health!
Ditto's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Breloom fainted!


Crit obv not needed. I'm at +5 Sp. Atk...

The sandstorm rages!
Ditto is buffeted by the sandstorm!
sent out Espeon!

Start of turn 19
Ditto used Struggle!
The foe's Espeon lost 6% of its health!
The foe's Espeon is hit with recoil!
Ditto fainted!


Ditto suicides efficiently instead of allowing the CM. Well done, young PFC.

The foe's Espeon used Psychic!
But there was no target...

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Espeon is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
GravityZero sent out Doryuuzu!


I actually have a better pokemon than this on my team for killing Psychics, but dang it, THERE'S NO KILL LIKE OVERKILLL!!!L!!111!!!

Start of turn 20
Doryuuzu used Earthquake!
The foe's Espeon lost 42% of its health!
The foe's Espeon fainted!

GravityZero won the battle!
GravityZero: gg


And that's why you don't boost a pokemon unless you have something that CAN kill it. If you're running an Ononokusu and plan on a single SD before sweep, make sure you can KO the thing at +2 Atk 1.5x Speed without hassle. If you're running DD, make sure you can do it at +1 Atk +1 Spd 1.5x Spd. Priority's good for that, but only if you're REALLY frail. A bulky set is gonna make a BEASTLY Ditto and one your Scizor/Loom/Roopushin can't take down.


Take Urugamoth. Once it's up to +2, almost nothing can really stop it. Aqua Jet isn't very common on non-Drizzle teams, so if you're running Uruga, you should be running Aqua Jet.


Take Dragonite. Agility + Drizzle + STAB Hurricane isn't very good at coverage like Draco Meteor, but Hurricane's 100% accurate with 30% confuse hax and only 20 BP below Meteor. Ice Shard isn't too common yet, but having your own makes sure your own Nite doesn't end up smacking your Nattorei with a Hurricane (it does at least 40% without LO, and is a solid 2hko with it).


Take Doryuuzu. I run it, and even though mine doesn't run SD, I know almost everyone else's does. Enter Scarfed Deoxys-S: Smacking Dory up is it's only mission in life. Enter Breloom: Mach Punch. Or anything else with fighting priority.



Basically, if you can efficiently counter your own setup + 1.5x speed, you're good.
 
Don't count out smarter players now Gravity xP.

But yea, I understand what you mean with Ditto, but as said before (and agreed upon by everyone now im guessing) is that you have to be able to play around outcomes like that. IMO, knowing ditto is on a team takes away the suprise, which, smarter players should be able to work around (if not easier then it was in gen 4). From there, it's up to the ditto user, if they are smart enough, to bait the opponent into using there setup sweeper so carelessly. Weaker players probably wont think twice, setup, and die to Ditto. Smarter players might bait the ditto, hit it as it comes in, and then setup as long as they can live against themselves that dont have boost, but a 1.5x speed(IMO, Ono in this case). Even then, you may bait the bait, and thus, do something unconventional, but then that could go vice versa if you understand what I mean.

IMO, Mindgames, and luck play a big factor in matches (especially against weaker foes), but even still, well prepared teams or players, will know what to do in those situations(hopefully, guessing correctly).

But yea, Good shit though on your ditto annihilation.

Edit- One other thing. You mentioned scizor, which, even though will take alot of damage from Ono at a +2 (and will most likely die from a +3 or 4), can survive. That, and bullet punch still hurts like hell on the bulky sets. I think he can still reliably 2HKO my sets with SR out
 
but the thing with ononokusu is that if your not using chioce item, then setup is going to be hard and you will need the conditions to do it in. the same with doryuuzu. you need a sandstorm up or the right conditions to sweep.
 
Im gonna try out the SD set I posted up last page or so at a get together with a good bunch of local competitive players. If anything, I've already done well enough with my DD set, so I'll be giving the SD set some more time to work itself out for me. IMO, With the calcs in mind that I posted with the set as well, I might put it up against a friends Uber team, and see how it rolls.
 
I have tried using a DD set but i get revenged killed after by faster choice scarfers so i now use a choice scarf set with outrage,EQ, night slash and brick break. It makes a great revenge killer with great coverage. normally switch out afterwards
 
Reason he was K.O'ed was for two things more than likely:

1. You played him earlier then what he was suppose to be played.
2. Ran a 252/252 standard sweeper set, which, is prone to getting revenge killed if played any earlier then late game (or with out the proper support).

With that said, DD sets work great, and you generally have to know what to do in specific situations. Standard sweeper sets can work well, and especially the bulkier sets that live much longer and gain the same amount of K.O's as the standard. If your going to use any DD sets you have to understand his major weaknesses, and capitalize on his strengths.
 
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