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Imminent Big Change: Keldeo

Dark Fallen Angel said:
Speaking of wich, how much Chansey and Blissey would take from both Secret Sword and rain-boosted Hydro Pump?
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252SpAtk Keldeo (Neutral) Secret Sword vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Chansey (+Def): 52% - 61% (368 - 434 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252SpAtk Keldeo (Neutral) Secret Sword vs 252HP/252Def Blissey (+Def): 70% - 83% (504 - 594 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252SpAtk Keldeo (Neutral) Hydro Pump in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Eviolite Chansey (Neutral): 26% - 31% (187 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252SpAtk Keldeo (Neutral) Hydro Pump in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Blissey (Neutral): 31% - 37% (226 - 267 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

So Secret Sword is obviously the way to go.
 
I would hope that the community will give Keldeo a fair chance in the spirit of the beginning of Gen V where it lt everyone in for a spin so nobody is relying on opinions or gut feelings.
 
Ska said:
img_poke01_game_10.jpg
img_poke01_game_09.jpg
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Holy crap, if those are non-modified by stat boosting items these forms have well over base 150 in their attacking stats... O.o

Edit: Looks like they keep the same base HP too, like most forme changes.
 
Scarfwynaut said:
Politoed and its drizzle was deemed fine for OU even before the coucil was around. Ninetails isn't even in the top 20, and the only sun abuser in OU, is barely OU. If you honestly believe Garchomp and Thundurus where ubers because of the weather at all, your disillusioning yourself. A special type beating Blissey doesn't make it uber at all, just look at calm mind Jirachi and Reunicles. As for the fate of Keldeo, we will just see.
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lol weather wasnt a part of it? where the hell were you lolol
 
Garchomp was a monsterous sweeper even without the sand, sand veil hax was just icing on the cake.

Thundurus didn't need thunder to sweep whole teams, heck I only saw a handful thunder-thunderuses when it was around.

And yes I was around for both Garchomp and Thundurus this gen, and I know first hand that sand and rain barely if at all effected their tiering.
 
Vivmeister10 said:
Holy crap, if those are non-modified by stat boosting items these forms have well over base 150 in their attacking stats... O.o

Edit: Looks like they keep the same base HP too, like most forme changes.
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O_o
However we still don't know what Keldeo's new forme looks like, nor do we have any idea of its stats or (hopefully) extended movepool >_>
I'm eager to try out new Kyurem formes in Ubers though! (assuming that's where they go with the gigantic offensive stats)
 
Scarfwynaut said:
Garchomp was a monsterous sweeper even without the sand, sand veil hax was just icing on the cake.

Thundurus didn't need thunder to sweep whole teams, heck I only saw a handful thunder-thunderuses when it was around.

And yes I was around for both Garchomp and Thundurus this gen, and I know first hand that sand and rain barely if at all effected their tiering.
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Garchomp's ban had a LOT to do with Sand Veil. Did you forget what his most popular/effective set was at the time of his ban? Sub SD. The gameplan was to set up, Sub on something slower until it missed, and use the safety of his sub and another possible miss to effectively sweep teams. Believe you me, missing on a Sub +2 Garchomp is enough to make you cry. Factor in a team based on spreading paralysis and it's a done deal. You can't win.
 
Iceydude168 said:
O_o
However we still don't know what Keldeo's new forme looks like, nor do we have any idea of its stats or (hopefully) extended movepool >_>
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You're right about the stats and possible extended movepool, but we certainly do know what Keldeo's Resolution Form looks like, for at least a day now:

keldeo-resolution-form.jpg
 
Keldeo has poor defenses. Rotom-W will handle it fine, if anything they'll just start running Tbolt for more power. As for CC its coming from a 72 base... Keldeo will just give rain teams an actual immense special base power on the field.
 
SJCrew said:
Garchomp's ban had a LOT to do with Sand Veil. Did you forget what his most popular/effective set was at the time of his ban? Sub SD. The gameplan was to set up, Sub on something slower until it missed, and use the safety of his sub and another possible miss to effectively sweep teams. Believe you me, missing on a Sub +2 Garchomp is enough to make you cry. Factor in a team based on spreading paralysis and it's a done deal. You can't win.
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Well looking back now I had a lot of biases against sub Garchomp. I either used rain hyper offense or just outright walled it with Skarmory. Against Skarm sub seemed silly as I would just whirlwind it away, if it missed I just did it again. I also rarely saw sub Garchomp actually, probably because my rating was in the 1200s, I saw scarf-chomp more actually. Finally I actually used Garchomp at one point, but it was the yache berry set, which I found more useful than finishing for misses.
 
Same as above with chomp, but if i ever saw a chomp i just set up t-spikes, so that didn't really work. Despite that, the occasional whirlwind miss made me lose games, and it was totally ridiculous. Garchomp's sand veil gives you a 20% chance of GG, which was ridiculous.
 
The yache set was the set that got it banned to ubers because nothing could revenge kill it without being 1hko-2hko'd if i recall.

Still keldeo reminds me of garchomp in that it has 2 powerful stabs and great move raisers but the rest of the attacking moves are always going to be sub-par.

Still i think keldeo will be on all rain teams where it will really shine.
 
I think Keldeo will have an impact similar to Terrakion honestly. Their stats are identical (just reversed), and Terrakion's superior offensive typing is offset by Keldeo's superior defensive typing and rain (which only boosts one move). I'm sure all this speculation was going on with the other deer, and look where they are.
 
Ricky Horror said:
Keldeo has poor defenses. Rotom-W will handle it fine, if anything they'll just start running Tbolt for more power.
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Scarf Rotom-W against +1 Keldeo:
Thunderbolt: 198-234 (61.3 - 72.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Volt Switch: 45.2 - 53.86%

against +0 Keldeo:

Thunderbolt: 294-348 (91.02 - 107.73%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO

Volt Switch: 67.49 - 79.87%


Keldeo got 91/90/90 Defenses wich is very very bulky for a sweeper for example Dragonite got 91/95/100 defenses and even without Multi Scale its hard to oneshot.

OVERGRO said:
All the other forms got enhanced stats... why not Keldeo?
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IIRC the change from resolution form is only aesthetically, because its a form like Sawsbucks or gastrodons form and not a forme like Shaymin-S or Girantina-O.


However the stats of zekrom and Reshiram are wrong in that picture according to the strategy dex Zekrom at Lvl 50 needs to have 153 atk points minimum even without investment and a - nature and the speed too low to because as you see in the image it got a neutral nature and the HP is also 2 points lower than they should be.

Edit: Dang aparently the smogon Dex always assumes perfect IVs so these stats are possible
 
WaterBomb said:
I think Keldeo will have an impact similar to Terrakion honestly. Their stats are identical (just reversed), and Terrakion's superior offensive typing is offset by Keldeo's superior defensive typing and rain (which only boosts one move). I'm sure all this speculation was going on with the other deer, and look where they are.
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I remember everyone saying Cobalion sucked. What are you supposed to do with 90 base offenses and a barren movepool in OU?

Keldeo will definitely cause a massive shift toward Rain, since unlike Terrakion, he gets a 180 BP STAB in his favorable weather. There will never be a dearth of Terrakion though, since he's fantastic in all weather conditions. The only thing I'm wanting for from him is to not get Bullet Punched every game, and Keldeo seems to be the answer to that for many offensive teams.

Has anyone mentioned Keldeo's value as a Scizor check? He's been retardedly good for two gens straight, it's time to take a few % off his usage. Then again, as long as Terrakion usage is high, Scizor usage will be even higher.
 
I'm assuming those new Kyurem forms have at least Base 170 attacking stats, maybe even 180. I mean, if they're that high, and they don't have EV's, then there's no way that's not at least 170.

Looks like these new Kyurem forms may instantly get banned from OU if that's the case.

Anyways, I don't know if Keldeo will exactly go Uber, but it may very well still be one of the hardest Pokemon to counter in OU.

I'm already using Jellicent though, so it may not matter.

Also I hope the Black Kyurem gets a good physical Ice Stab.
 
Guys this is for discussion about Keldeo, not Kyurem.

And yeah, I think a comparison to Terrakion is really applicable here. Keldeo is likely going to be very common and have a large impact on the metagame.

I'm expecting a rise of LO Recover Latios, which does a pretty nice job of handling Keldeo for offensive teams.
 
Also expect Psyshock on Starmie to be the standard. Hydro Pump / Psyshock / Rapid Spin / Recover with Life Orb is already a very solid set!
 
I'll give my input on this since I am an avid DW OU player.

First off, everyone who plays DW knows, if you don't have something to check Keldeo your chances of winning are severely hampered. Thats how powerful this thing is. It actually steals games. I was playing today, down 4-1 to the obvious hax that took down the majority of my team. Keldeo came in on a -2 Chandy, set up a +1 with CM, proceeded to spam Hydro Pump and KO the rest of his team, with the best thing he could do is Scarf Rotom T Bolt which didn't KO. Hydro Pump coming off of it is obscenely powerful and Pokemon that resist are at risk of being 2HKO'd and non resists basically fall at a OHKO. It will make a large impact on the metagame and become rain's number 1 abuser.

About the topic of Terrakion+Keldeo wallbreaking combo... IT WORKS. Everything is scared of Terrakions CC, so they switch in a check only to be demolished by Keldeo, and vice versa. About Garchomp, the sole reason for its ban was because of Sand Veil. Outside of that it was very manageable. I could bring up the topic of a ban on all Evasion based abilities seeing as not only did Garchomp abuse it in OU but if anyone remembers what Snow Cloak and Hail did in UU...

Garchomp unbanned while every evasion ability goes under the evasion clause. IN DW, Garchomp is only popular because Tyranitar is such a solid check to Chandy, and it is one of the best Sand Sweepers. Prevalence of a check to Chandy caused it.
 
Actually, my team in DW does not have a Keldeo check, because as long as the weather isn't rain, Keldeo loses one powerful STAB, and (Secret/Scared?) Sword only has 85 base power. Because of this, I could defeat it with my Ninetales. Also, there are a bunch of physical Keldeos in DW probably due to its superior physical movepool.
 
Super Pony is a beast and there's no question in my mind that OU players would be clamoring to ban it immediately if we still used the suspect testing system. Even before it's released there are posts and people on the servers saying that it's broken, before they've even played one match with it lol.

I can't wait to use it in standard OU, it's extremely fun to use. Although it will make the problem of OU being a terrible metagame because of VoltTurn even worse.
 
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