-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Jumpluff: Whimsicott PRIME! (No, still 0.5)
- Thread starter alphatron
- Start date
I'm a longtime lurker and only a half competent battler, but I've been experimenting with sun teams lately and I've actually been really impressed with Jumpluff as a dedicated Subseeder over Erufuun. I run
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
252 speed, 188 defense, 64 special defense
Sleep Powder
Encore
Substitute
Leech Seed
Which is basically the Subseed set posted in the Sun topic.
It doesn't seem like it, but Sleep Powder is a HUGE deal. For Subseeding to really be effective, you always want to start with either Leech Seed or a Sub up. You're most vulnerable when you first set up the Subseed cycle. If you Sub and the enemy breaks it on that turn, well, you're shit out of luck. If you Seed and the enemy attacks, well...
Sleep Powder lets Jumpluff bypass that completely. As long as it doesn't miss (and it might), you can freely start the Subseed cycle without worrying about a single damn thing. Jumpluff's so fast in the Sun that it might as well have Mischievous Heart (unless you're up against other Mischievous Heart users), so you can always get the Sleep Powder off. After that, you're in the clear. I'm no good at team construction, but Jumpluff's saved my butt tons of times. Starmie? Who cares. Ononokusu? Who cares. Scarfchomp? Who cares. Deoxys-S? Who cares. As long as it doesn't have more than 700 speed (and the only thing that does is Scarf Deoxys-S, which needless to say is absolutely ridiculous), Jumpluff can take care of it - and it can only do that because of Sleep Powder.
Of course, that Jumpluff also fails against Taunt, other Mischievous Heart users, Sleep absorbers, Ice Shard...well, it's not perfect, to say the least. And it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that Sleep Powder is the only thing Jumpluff has over similar Erufuun sets. But Sleep Powder is massive.
At least in my experience, Jumpluff's an incredibly good all-purpose check, and its Subseeding set has got a lot of merit compared to Erufuun. Erufuun's still better overall, but Jumpluff's got its own perks, and significant ones too, not just gimmicks.
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
252 speed, 188 defense, 64 special defense
Sleep Powder
Encore
Substitute
Leech Seed
Which is basically the Subseed set posted in the Sun topic.
It doesn't seem like it, but Sleep Powder is a HUGE deal. For Subseeding to really be effective, you always want to start with either Leech Seed or a Sub up. You're most vulnerable when you first set up the Subseed cycle. If you Sub and the enemy breaks it on that turn, well, you're shit out of luck. If you Seed and the enemy attacks, well...
Sleep Powder lets Jumpluff bypass that completely. As long as it doesn't miss (and it might), you can freely start the Subseed cycle without worrying about a single damn thing. Jumpluff's so fast in the Sun that it might as well have Mischievous Heart (unless you're up against other Mischievous Heart users), so you can always get the Sleep Powder off. After that, you're in the clear. I'm no good at team construction, but Jumpluff's saved my butt tons of times. Starmie? Who cares. Ononokusu? Who cares. Scarfchomp? Who cares. Deoxys-S? Who cares. As long as it doesn't have more than 700 speed (and the only thing that does is Scarf Deoxys-S, which needless to say is absolutely ridiculous), Jumpluff can take care of it - and it can only do that because of Sleep Powder.
Of course, that Jumpluff also fails against Taunt, other Mischievous Heart users, Sleep absorbers, Ice Shard...well, it's not perfect, to say the least. And it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that Sleep Powder is the only thing Jumpluff has over similar Erufuun sets. But Sleep Powder is massive.
At least in my experience, Jumpluff's an incredibly good all-purpose check, and its Subseeding set has got a lot of merit compared to Erufuun. Erufuun's still better overall, but Jumpluff's got its own perks, and significant ones too, not just gimmicks.
I run a similar set to yours, but it's more like:
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
128 Defence / 128 Special Defence / 252 Speed
Jolly / Chlorophyll
Substitute
Leech Seed
Bounce
Encore
Instead of relying on sleep (which my Venusaur makes use of more effectively), I set up my SubSeeds through careful Encores and just switching in Jumpluff into a situation where he will force the switch. Bounce is actually quite good; it acts as a free protect, meaning more recovery while it piles on more residual damage as well as sometimes paralyzing key players on the enemy team. It also allows me to counter Grass times that I normally wouldn't be able to touch, and has KO'd a Breloom many times.
I disagree that Jumpluff is as bad as many of you make it out to be, especially compared to a certain MH user, but it has it's perks. The Flying subtype, usually a bane on both defensive and offensive pokes alike, gives him STAB Bounce as well as allowing Jumpluff the ability to switch into Earthquakes and Grass / Fighting moves all day, giving him more opportunities to set up the ever important Sub.
Jumpluff @ Leftovers
128 Defence / 128 Special Defence / 252 Speed
Jolly / Chlorophyll
Substitute
Leech Seed
Bounce
Encore
Instead of relying on sleep (which my Venusaur makes use of more effectively), I set up my SubSeeds through careful Encores and just switching in Jumpluff into a situation where he will force the switch. Bounce is actually quite good; it acts as a free protect, meaning more recovery while it piles on more residual damage as well as sometimes paralyzing key players on the enemy team. It also allows me to counter Grass times that I normally wouldn't be able to touch, and has KO'd a Breloom many times.
I disagree that Jumpluff is as bad as many of you make it out to be, especially compared to a certain MH user, but it has it's perks. The Flying subtype, usually a bane on both defensive and offensive pokes alike, gives him STAB Bounce as well as allowing Jumpluff the ability to switch into Earthquakes and Grass / Fighting moves all day, giving him more opportunities to set up the ever important Sub.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I'll have to be honest. I too have been using Jumpluff over Erufuun on my sun team. The ground immunity and the perfect pairing he makes with heatran has made everything worth it. However, I do not ever run sleep powder anymore unless I'm running a balanced or offensive sun team. It's accuracy has lost me many games where Jumpluff could have otherwise saved my ass. When not running sleep powder, I opt for Aromatherapy/HP Flying/Bounce/Worry Seed. Yes, worry seed. Enemy chesto rest kingdras? Worry seed. Speed boosting blaziken who will eventually outspeed jumpluff? Worry Seed. Hydration vaporeon who jumpluff still outspeeds? Worry seed. Poison heal Breloom/gliscor and magic gaurd shinpora/rankurur? Worry Seed.
And it also has some other uses. On my sun stall team, I usually end up kicking myself for not carrying worry seed or aromatherapy. As the usual switch in for jumpluff is breloom, even sleep powder becomes useless.
I run enough speed EVs to outspeed base 105s without the sun. The rest of the EVs go into defenses.
And it also has some other uses. On my sun stall team, I usually end up kicking myself for not carrying worry seed or aromatherapy. As the usual switch in for jumpluff is breloom, even sleep powder becomes useless.
I run enough speed EVs to outspeed base 105s without the sun. The rest of the EVs go into defenses.
I've been running him on Sun as well. He has enough moves to make himself distinct from Erufuun, as well as being super fast even with attacks and having Ground immunity. Personally I run subseed with Encore and Sleep Powder, which typically stalls out 1-2 pokes every game (more if I get T-spikes down). Admittedly it's taunt bait, but Encore and Sleep Powder allow it to function as an excellent panic button if things go ill.
Your set looks pretty cool, however my team does not particularly need Aromatherapy. Worry Seed does look very enticing, but my team really needs the residual damage and recovery from Seed. Curious as to why Bounce and HP Fly? I assume the former for stalling out Toxic damage, and the second just for STAB?
Fair point, he does really appreciate hazard staking for this reason too.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Massive bump.
I haven't really been playing that much recently, but I decided to use Jumpluff again to see what its uses were. I've found out...that it makes a rather good heatran partner in sunlight. With 700 speed, jumpluff covers about every threat heatran himself would have any issues with, even enemy heatran. You can switch jumpluff into a landorus earthquake and sleep powder/encore him. Aromatherapy makes for a good cleric and momento allows you to run setup support.
As far as subseeding is concerned, it isn't very good in this metagame, but if you REALLY want to run that path, then heatran can dispose of the ever common ferrothorn, while jumpluff can run worry seed to end magic gaurd/poison heal shenanigans.
The only weakness heatran doesn't cover for jumpluff is rock, so a third teamslot could be dedicated to for that very purpose.
Typing all of this up is futile, because no one will ever use jumpluff, but this is for the few that do. A shame jumpluff didn't get prankster from dreamworld.
I haven't really been playing that much recently, but I decided to use Jumpluff again to see what its uses were. I've found out...that it makes a rather good heatran partner in sunlight. With 700 speed, jumpluff covers about every threat heatran himself would have any issues with, even enemy heatran. You can switch jumpluff into a landorus earthquake and sleep powder/encore him. Aromatherapy makes for a good cleric and momento allows you to run setup support.
As far as subseeding is concerned, it isn't very good in this metagame, but if you REALLY want to run that path, then heatran can dispose of the ever common ferrothorn, while jumpluff can run worry seed to end magic gaurd/poison heal shenanigans.
The only weakness heatran doesn't cover for jumpluff is rock, so a third teamslot could be dedicated to for that very purpose.
Typing all of this up is futile, because no one will ever use jumpluff, but this is for the few that do. A shame jumpluff didn't get prankster from dreamworld.
Not only is Jumpluff my favorite mod, but it is also one of my fav pokemon. Once I stalled out a mewtwo with leech seed with this thing. It is better then whimsicott because of sleep powder. I run a set of sleep powder, substitute, leech seed, and encore. It made so many people rage quit. Hell, I encored a groudon into EQ and stalled that thing out. (Yes I use pluff in Ubers). I think that pluffs only trouble is that it is blocked by grass pokes and sap sipper AND substitute doesnt get enough pp. :(
I dunno, Fling + Acrobat is cool?
On topic, does Sleep Powder really make Jumpluff a rival to Whimsicott? I mean, truth be told, Sleep is an unreliable status and can only be put on one 'mon anyway.
Bounce is more of utility if anything, allowing Pluff to stall for an extra turn and spread some paralysis. It's not offense, its not Gyarados, and its using Bounce for entirely different purposes.
Although, there's still Stun Spore...
Although, there's still Stun Spore...
Jumpluff works well in Triples.
Acrobatics can usually surprise some Infernape and Mienshao whatever on the other side. Rage Powder works. Encore works but Whimsicott can also do it. Sleep Powder's accuracy is better than Grass Whistle.
Jumpluff's DW ability allows it Sleep foes who under Safe Guard effect which can be used. But I didn't see too many Safe Guard in Triples, Chlorophyll is usually better.
Acrobatics can usually surprise some Infernape and Mienshao whatever on the other side. Rage Powder works. Encore works but Whimsicott can also do it. Sleep Powder's accuracy is better than Grass Whistle.
Jumpluff's DW ability allows it Sleep foes who under Safe Guard effect which can be used. But I didn't see too many Safe Guard in Triples, Chlorophyll is usually better.