League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

Lavos

Banned deucer.
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well, riot said like a year ago that they are trying to slowly eliminate silences from the game because they feel it eliminates all counterplay, so this nerf was pretty obvious with a little foresight. sadly, it doesn't change enough to give anyone a reason to still play talon, so...rip

i would like to see cutthroat's mana cost removed and its cooldown lowered at all ranks if they do go through with this
 

VKCA

(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
Hmmm, you mean a cc that removes your ability to do anything besides auto might be slightly frustrating on a champion that's supposed to kill you in under three seconds? Who could have ever guessed???
 

Mr.E

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To be fair, the silence was always minuscule anyway. It's a Blitz/Viktor silence where it's nothing more than an interrupt, or just stops a Flash-on-reaction. This isn't Kassadin/Leblanc "silenced for five years as they casually walk away from you unscathed." I never had a problem with it.

The mini-slow helps orient one's self after blinking to the target so you can aim that fucking Rake accurately.

riot doesn't look at each individual game and go, "hm he reconnected and was somewhat useful, let's not ban him" if it's your first ban it's probably a day or 8 hours, nothing to qq about
I don't tend to see the red "this dood was d/c" name on people if they reconnect and contribute to a game, though. Their detection is kinda shoddy though. I was once flagged for d/c because I lagged a couple minutes in the middle of a 30+ minute game, meanwhile I didn't get flagged a Dominion game where I literally disconnected before gates opened (power went out) and I got back in right before the game ended 15 minutes later.
 

UncleSam

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Talon was fine, if anything they should've changed his Q because that's the source of his ridiculous burst...give him a secondary ranged skillshot projectile to make him more skill-based and less point and click single-target burst damage, that's the only change Talon needs.

I don't understand why Riot hates silences so much; they aren't as bad as stuns and no one complains about those. Champions with silences counter ability based champions rather than auto attack based champions, that's just how it is and that's how ability based champions have always been balanced. By removing silences/anti AP champions you are effectively just increasing the power of ability based champions, who are honestly plenty powerful already.

Silences that last a second or less are NOT a problem. The Kassadin silence was a problem due to it's duration, same with the Leblanc silence (and the Fiddle silence still is too long, the additional bounces shouldn't re-silence and he should be given something to compensate because he is such a poorly designed all-or-nothing champion at the moment). NONE of the silences needed to simply be done away with, however, and replacing them with abilities that 'disrupt channeled abilities' does NOTHING other than nerf champions with channeled abilities who tend to be utter shit anyway (Nunu, Fiddle, etc.).

Also when is the Yasuo nerf coming holy shit he is 1000000x worse than Talon, he has a ban rate of 75% to Talon's 20% and yet Talon gets gutted Yasuo doesn't...Wind Wall is WAY worse in terms of selectively denying counterplay to specific champions than a one second silence is.

At least this is only PBE, I am hopeful Riot will see clear of how ridiculous this change is.

PS has anyone played new Cass? She seems ridiculous on paper but everyone I've talked to says it is worse than old Cass, due to the difficulty of obtaining stacks/mana problems.
 
I've heard that new Cass is a late-game monster (Tear is more or less mandatory now AFAIK) and it isn't that hard to obtain stacks, but the primary complaint that Cass veterans have is that the change to her E mechanics is a flat nerf since it's now a fixed CD calculated the moment that the projectile starts moving.
 
A targeted silence like Talon's is almost as problematic a targeted stun, which thankfully are few and far between. Taric will almost never burst you down, Sion is getting a rework that will likely remove his stun, and Pantheon isn't exactly an assassin that can 100-0 someone in one second. Talon, however, can, providing next to 0 counterplay to a fed Talon.

The problem with most of the other silences is similar, in that they're too easy to hit. Fiddlesticks' silence is also target-able and can bounce to multiple (or the same) enemies, Soraka's (which is getting reworked or something) is point and click, Garen's doubles as a gap closer unless you have some CC to prevent him from whaling on you, Chogath's is in a wide cone that's easy to hit if he gets close. Talon's, Soraka's, and Fiddlestick's are definitely the worst of the bunch, and should all see some form of rework eventually. Soraka's new silence is strange and probably a buff (I haven't played her on the PBE), but at least it provides some form of counterplay. Talon's current silence really doesn't, unless you consider "stay far away from him" counterplay in a 1v1 scenario.

I do agree that this was the wrong move, though. Talon's in need of some minor changes, not straight up nerfs like this would be. It is just the PBE, though, which has had a recent history of making some pretty bizarre but temporary changes for testing purposes.

Also Yasuo needs to just be removed from the game, not fun to play against at all and can carry his team if he gets Bork/IE/Shiv despite being 0/10. Having to tread carefully around a champion you've smashed all game just because of his 90% crit chance, 50% armor pen, and 500 health shield is neither fun nor fair.
 

VKCA

(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
I don't understand why Riot hates silences so much; they aren't as bad as stuns and no one complains about those.
But taric nami and sion can't kill you instantly after they stun you... are there any assassins with straight up stun cc? The problem isn't silence, it never broke raka, the problem is champions being able to insta gib (/seriously chunk if just early in lane) you without you being able to do any thing about it.

(Which wasn't a problem for talons admittedly because unlike lb and kass he didn't have ranged silence or easy escape)(the chunking in lane without retribution part i mean)
 

UncleSam

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I mean almost any champion that builds damage and has CC can in theory kill you if they are fed/farmed (ie Ahri during Charm), I'm not sure why a on second silence is such a huge difference, as most melee champions require some form of targeted cc in order to run down any ranged champions.

I think what people don't get is that Talon is a melee champion, he is SUPPOSED to be able to solo kill ranged champions because when grouped up he won't be as effective as a ranged champion will. As such he necessarily scales poorly (except for Yasuo because Wind Wall is the most idiotic ability in the game) and there is plenty of counterplay to him just by grouping up.

Rengar is way worse in terms of popping up out of no where and bursting people down, only difference is that Talon trades single target burst for more AOE damage and worse stealth.

The problem with Talon is NOT his silence, it's that his Q should be aoe (and probably ranged) to fit with the rest of his kit; he should be dealing large amounts of damage to a group, rather than a massive amount of single target damage.
 
Seeing as how I now have moved from a Thresh to a Vel'Koz main any nerfs to assassins makes me quite happy :D (besides Akali, do not touch my Akali Riot).
 

Acklow

I am always tired. Don't bother me.
I think the change to his E makes him a worse Katarina now, because his only safe escape is his ult which is on a long cooldown, vs Kat who simply gains a defensive boost. At least Talon had a bit of leverage to work with that Silence, since it really assisted in getting out of ganks. Now it really isn't helping him much midlane at all. I agree about buffing his E to fit the huge nerf to it.
 
I'm pretty sure most people here read r/leagueoflegends, but people might have thoughts on this, so posting.

Svenskeren has been fined $2.5k and suspended to last SK Gaming's first three games in groups at Worlds in an unambiguously critical ruling by Riot, standing in contrast to SK's somewhat more halfhearted apology. The short version is that Svenskeren changed his summoner name to taipeichingchong while on the SEA servers and taunted a SEA player he was talking to at the time about it. Riot have fairly clear-cut policies on racism with a wide variety of punishments available for the offence, and players were briefed on cultural sensitivity beforehand. Fines have been handed out fairly liberally for not following policy to the letter and a bunch of players have been LCS-banned for toxicity, so it's not very surprising.

Most people who are speaking out about it seem to think this is a good thing, which surprises me because it has a serious effect on SK as a team; I expected it to be more unpopular as a result, especially when many LoL players would think nothing of saying similar stuff themselves and many complaints have been made about punishments instated against LCS players who frequently do comparable things in solo queue (both for more punishments and for fewer...). But people on Reddit actually have surprised me; before Riot's ruling, they were condemning the idiocy of a player who would go to an international tournament and racially caricature the host country. Context is important here, but it also appears to be personal. It seems a lot of people already disliked Svenskeren and fredy because they are well-known for flaming in solo queue, which Svenskeren has received official warnings for before, so if he didn't already have a reputation, he has one now. Svenskeren is a dumbass.

I think it's a good thing that Riot is actively condemning this and trying to clean up their scene. It's a necessary and significant step towards making their international game more inclusive and respectful, as well as making it more accessible and professional. It's also not new; Riot recently instated that policy for faster punishments against people who use racial slurs ingame and Lyte et al. have been working pretty hard to convince people LoL isn't That Racist anymore.

But I am really surprised at the apparent lack of controversy given all the drama wrt. gamer culture recently. The LoL, especially r/lol, community is super fickle and Cop just got released so they need a new hatewagon, but they're not big fans of the esports team for a number of reasons -- and they love to make the same kind of racist jokes themselves about players and champions, although the mods ostensibly delete them as of Lucian's prerelease. Where are the SK fans, are they just getting buried by happy TSM supporters or are they too ashamed to say anything?

My not-very-unique opinion is that the organisation (and to a lesser extent, the teammates, but they weren't directly responsible here) is at fault for not taking Svenskeren in hand long ago when he developed a reputation for toxicity and began receiving warnings, and they should have done better by everyone, including the team and their fans, and impressed that this is his job. SK has a history of employing notorious flamers as well, so they should know they have to keep their players in hand by now, more than if they went about their job sensibly.

Thoughts? Anyone think it was unfair, feel sorry for nRated, or believe a different punishment was warranted or would be more elegant, or just want to complain about how Reddit are as usual hypocrites? I'm really interested in people who sincerely believe this is overblown (not devil's advocates) because the community is being so meek and mild about racism for once. Also SK fans, I'm not seeing many of those flairs LOL

edit: here is a nice venn diagram I made, entitled 'people who think svenskeren fucked up' because that is at least a noncontroversial statement most people seem to be defaulting to.

 
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Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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Riot has mentioned that they dislike -targetted- silences (or hard cc) on assassins in general because it really limits the victim's options under fire. Ahri and Fizz are assassins with hard CC, but they're skillshots and Ahri is only a part time assassin anyways. Given that Talon's kit already has low enough counterplay without counting the silence, the added CC took out whatever counterplays he could've had left (Flash, Zhonyas, natural escape abilities, etc)

One of the problems Riot has stated about Talon is his ridiculous uncounterable AOE burst attached to his assassin gameplay. I don't think they'd go for the AoE Q route. Unfortunately, due to Talon's identity as an aoe assassin, finding a fix for his kit in general probably needs a rework. You say that Talon is supposed to punish people that are alone. The problem is Talon's fast, practically targeted burst, combined with his high AoE output means he can still do that when the enemies are grouped, AND collaterally punish everyone around him.

Wind wall is still a super op ability tho.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
is the 4th Smogon Classic Winneris a defending SPL Championis a Past WCoP Championis the defending ADV Circuit Champion
I don't think SK has any fans lol. They might have the lowest fanbase of any team from the 4 major regions that qualified for worlds. I agree that Svenskeren is a dumbass and I think the punishment from Riot was pretty justifiable. If I were the one making the decision I wouldn't fine him, but simply ban him from this year's Worlds. Blatant displays of racism and racial intolerance, especially when preluding an international competition that brings all the regions together, is unacceptable. If you're a racially insensitive person, you don't belong at worlds imo (and I think inSec also should have been punished by Riot for his racial slurs in solo q against the Chinese).

It was also posted on reddit that one of the major newspapers in Sweden ran a story on this topic. This will undoubtedly be of special embarrassment to Svenskeren.

On a larger scope this shows how LoL organizations need to be more attentive to the personality and maturity of the players they are signing, and know when to intervene or say that enough is enough. Additionally, players need to realize that they are in an international spotlight, and none of their actions will go overlooked. Compare a player such as Svenskeren, with a background of consistent immaturity and behavioral issues, to someone like Rekkles, not even 18 years old and yet with no problems thus far, considered an admirable player in both LANs and solo q. In every sport there are exemplars and disappointments, but it is so pronounced in LoL due to the young age of most of the players. They need to recognize as players what they represent and how they ought to behave. I feel that this is one of the ways esports will achieve legitimacy.
 

supermarth64

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SK has more fans than SUPA HOT CREW XD which makes me sad because all of SHC are likable nice guys that could easily get a larger fanbase if they put more time to social media/streaming :(

Also this won't fix Talon, it just makes him harder to snowball with. Riot are basically nerfing him in a way that no one actually pays attention to his actual problems (assassin with AOE burst in a lower time span than Khazix/Zed/Akali). Scarizard has said that itemization has been stalled because Talon existed. Remember League of Cleavers? It was built on ~120% of all Talons and was one of the strongest Cleaver stacking champs in the game.
 

Mr.E

im the best
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Remember when BotRK was released kinda maybe slightly underpowered, then they put such a ridiculous overbuff on the PBE that it never should've made it past the napkin math required to tell everyone it was absurdly broken, then it went live anyway? Good times. I don't count my chickens before they hatch but once it's on PBE, by that point changes generally seem to be "final" barring minor tweaks. Did anyone else actually want fucking snuggle-zone Sona?

Cass rework is okay doe, and I was already building Tear on her before.
 

remlabmez

@dacopboss
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Svenskeren tried to steal away the name of my smurf and paid the ultimate price.

But real talk I don't feel there is much to say, he has a track history of being toxic and this is just another showing of him being a retard. I don't even think the punishment is that harsh tbh. The SK organisation should had done a better job of making sure their players can represent a positive image. Ocelote is my boy but he was toxic af also while being under SK. It kind of shocks me because SK has been around for a while, they were a huge name back when cs 1.6 was very popular... I would figure that a well established e-sports organisation from the west would be better at handling these toxic players =/

Also bengi isn't getting dropped because they would lose their OGN spot. No clue how he stayed on the team, call that negro space.

TSM TSM TSM TSM TSM
 

tcr

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So azir just got put back live after bug fixes. I had him and played him against a Yasuo, and ended the game 16/9. Gotta say, his zoning and mobility are stupid OP, unless you can farm from about 3 teemos behind your casters you get zoned out. If the azir player can hit his WQE combo he can get out of any gank. His ult seemed kinda lackluster, as you really need to get in the middle of the fight to use it, and being an AP mage its so hard to actually get it off right. Just some thoughts from a Bronze 3 player
 

Colonel M

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So azir just got put back live after bug fixes. I had him and played him against a Yasuo, and ended the game 16/9. Gotta say, his zoning and mobility are stupid OP, unless you can farm from about 3 teemos behind your casters you get zoned out. If the azir player can hit his WQE combo he can get out of any gank. His ult seemed kinda lackluster, as you really need to get in the middle of the fight to use it, and being an AP mage its so hard to actually get it off right. Just some thoughts from a Bronze 3 player
So azir just got put back live after bug fixes. I had him and played him against a Yasuo, and ended the game 16/9. Gotta say, his zoning and mobility are stupid OP, unless you can farm from about 3 teemos behind your casters you get zoned out. If the azir player can hit his WQE combo he can get out of any gank. His ult seemed kinda lackluster, as you really need to get in the middle of the fight to use it, and being an AP mage its so hard to actually get it off right. Just some thoughts from a Bronze 3 player
Dunno - both times I had an Azir and the opponent had Azir. Seems like my allies Azir's could never grasp the concept of said Azir. <_<;

Anyway, he does seem really strong as I thought he would be. He does seem to have trouble against laners that can really get into his face while poking from afar (think Zed - I didn't see Azir do too well against Zed aside from Exhaust). The top Quinn also crushed my Azir too.

-_-; thank God I was just practicing some shit.
 

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