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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

Cathadora said:
I like the shen buffs in general just because he needed to get more play time however he will be never turely balanced with his current form of ultimate. Shen is arguablyt the only jungler in the game who can preasure top lane past the 7 min mark and not lose dragon for it. Later in the game he can go split push while top pushes the other lane and what do you do then?
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If solo lane Shen becomes viable, this still holds throughout all phases of the game, especially during early laning where Shen will not have to take teleport while still retaining dragon control. However, teleport may still be wanted just to get in and out of lane more easily for that early game. I haven't played him or against him yet, but if his changes make his early game strong enough, you can get away with something like ghost+flash or ghost+exhaust or even ghost+heal and still be a monster.

I'm not sure how many of you were playing several months back when Shen was considered the most OP champion in the entire game, but he was. He was banned literally every single ranked game because of how gamebreaking his ultimate was, and this was in a time where Pantheon/Twisted Fate still had global ultimates. He fell out in popularity mainly due to the AD+support bottom lane, how weak he was as a solo lane, and how weak he was as a jungler - but that's hopefully going to change.
 
I'm still not in love with Shen's clear speed in jungle from what I've watched so far(at 5k ip without how or Nautilus so still debating on which I want first), but I think he'll probably wind up being even stronger toplane since he's got a little more damage to avoid just forcing freefarm the way Cho'gath does while having a ton more presence elsewhere on the map. Shen was really tough to push out of lane even before, but now he can actually do something with it and maybe push back a little.

I'm a little torn about how I feel about his build in either slot -- kinda stuck building CDR since his ratios got nerfed and his bases got raised(not to mention the lack of ap tank items), likely needs Wriggle's to jungle at a reasonable rate, his dps benefits mostly from AS and hp to boost his passive, and he needs HP and resistances to tank... which isn't that unusual of a dilemma beyond needing both bonus AS/HP and Wriggle's(unlike Skarner and Udyr who don't need a lantern or Warwick who needs AS and Wriggle's but can skimp on the HP some because of his regen). Stacking HP for passive and general tankiness begs for Atma's but tough to fit in build if you get Wriggle's and an AS item(not to mention HOG potentially turning into Randuin's if you get it). I'd just go Wriggle's/Merc's/Wit's End/Mallet/Atma's/filler with vanity Warmog's in last slot over early game HoG if Randuin's isn't needed but that's very little bonus HP most games... and has 0global CDR. Basically forced to fit Frozen Heart in somewhere(annoying though it is with all the wasted mana) and Spirit Visage would help too... makes my head hurt. Guess realistically you'd have to snag it where Atma's is on that previous build to have everything but always kinda missing something since then you're damage light all game evenif you go Boots->Madred's->HoG->Wit's End->Wriggle's->Merc's->Phage->Frozen Heart->Mallet->Randuin's/Atma's and you're waiting forever on the CDR, too(not to mention the gold cost is probably too high to be feasible from jungle).

EDIT: Though the more I think about it if his damage is gonna wind up being subpar early game anyway it probably makes way more sense just to get the CDR sooner and go like Madred's->Boots->HoG->Merc's->Spirit Visage->Frozen Heart and just build as much HP as possible from there while getting another MR/Armor item if the other team is stacked one way or the other and trying to find some AS. Would need a few blue pots with the previous build probably...


Also Warwick is such a man now



Also speaking of the meta changes of AD support bot I wonder if Riot won't have finally succeeded at making botlane more interesting. Was thinking after watching CLG scrimming with support Galio that we might see a lot more aggressive bots with Soraka's sustain and Sona's poke wrecked -- the other viable supports like Taric, Alistar, Leona, Nunu, and even stuff like Galio and Shen are a lot more capable of kaing stuff happen.
 
Stinger would be another affordable CDR option, especially for DPS Shen, but Nashor's Tooth again has a wasted mana stat. You reach 36.1% CDR with Stinger, Spirit Visage, Omen, and the Enlightenment and Sorcery masteries, and scary Ki Strikes and Vorpal Blades.
 
About to get my first taste of Ziggs. This match should put me at 6300 so will be deciding between Ziggs and Naut. Tough choice.

Went 5/2/8 before they surrendered at 20. I'm in love. His AA animation is awkward as hell, though. Makes getting last hits while falling back a pain in the ass.
 
i feel like as shen builds go you're just going to want to go doran's shield or cloth 5 or boots start

and go HoG, tabi/merc treads, aegis as core

with 9/21/0 masteries and randuin's you're at around 17% CDR at level 18 which really isn't much, and you'll have almost none early game

perhaps spirit visage will be core on him, but against a physical lane (which is most top laners at the moment) it wouldn't be that great

HOWEVER, there's really no reason why shen can't build tanky DPS

he doesn't really build AP that strictly. revolver builds don't work too well on him from what i've seen and it would make more sense to me to go atmog's or atmallet. that opens up a whole lot of possibilities with brutalizer and ghostblade.
 
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This game was a blast to play. Was me and Ziggs in a lane against Ezreal and Talon. They fed 2 early kills, I bought armor boots and a longsword, got some more kills, and it just snowballed. And yes, the CS sucks, but I was farming champs. Their Warwick was so pissed. And really, that Riven "nerf" a few patches ago wasn't big at all. Her Q does so much damage now. Loved her before the nerf, still love her the same after.

And all these Gangplanks going critplank builds, that's all I've seen. Pretty dumb.
 
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Started slow because Cass is nasty in mid. About when I got my RDC though I started carrying. His Q has to be in the top five skills in the game. It's so SATISFYING. I got so many kills where enemies thought they were getting away but my bouncing bomb had too much range or was too fast. Nothing like chasing a Lee Sin through the jungle and nailing him with Q right after he W's to a minion. His R is also satisfying to get kills with as well. And it seems OP at close range, it comes out so fast. I LOVE LOVE LOVE him.
 
No because Shen's AP ratios are balls. I'm sure he could mid just fine, he's a strong solo laner regardless, but there's not much point in specifically building AP.

Build Shen tanky on-hit, like Teemo or Warwick or whatever. Wit's End and friends (Bloodrazor, Ionic Spark, even Malady) give more for your gold than normal AD items at the cost of poor scaling (no added ability damage, can't crit or lifesteal)... not a problem because Shen has no AD scaling on his abilities. ;/ A more typical bruiser build might work on him too, I mean he does proc Triforce at will and Atma's is basically Wit's End for Armor, but without explicitly doing the math I can only assume an on-hit build is better. (i.e. Wit's End + Bloodrazor > Atma's + Triforce)

And what's so important about CDR on Shen? Vorpal is not exactly an impressive nuke and he's still ultimately constrained by Energy anyway (you just empty faster), the only major benefit is increasing uptime on his CC. Unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't consider it very high while mentally mapping out my item build for a game.
 
It's more because his entire utility comes from using W/E/R and with the shitty AP scaling the only way you can actually improve them is through CDR; W is pre-nerfs Turtle Udyr-tier ridiculous and the bang you get out of E is silly but having a significant amount of CDR definitely creates enough energy issues if you aren't routinely Eing like four people that it probably isn't as worth it as I would have expected, Wriggle's+HoG+Mercs/Tabi+Wit's End+Mallet/Warmogs+Atmas+Mallet/Warmogs/Randuins probably way to go since at least it gives you the usual combination of bulk/melee damage even though it doesn't really synergize with his kit in any way.

Also his jungle is pretty embarassingly slow even with Wriggle's but at least he can somewhat hilariously gain health while jungling after level 2 basically regardless of starting item or runes.
 
top lane shen is like go atmogs always heal never die

cdr is probably not worth it because even with the buffs, you're still pretty tight on energy
 
I hope you all realize that the mindset of Shen has completely been changed with this rework...

The change to Ki Strike and the addition of Damage to his taunt makes him very Offensively oriented, not the defensive utility bot he was before. Stop thinking that his E and R are his only useful spells now.
 
Agreeing here. Shen's Ki Strike is no joke anymore. Building Atmog's or Fratma's means he has strong physical AAs and beefy Ki Strike magic damage, making more difficult to fight off his damage. Vorpal Blade now provides an amazing amount of health in and out of lane, and Feint is better for getting Ki Strike up more. CDR is ok, but it makes one more willing to spam his spells, which isn't always the best of ideas. If you're going to use a good amount of CDR, you'd have to have a good amount of AS to get energy back faster. As it is, my issue has still been more of an out of energy concern than a "this ability was on cooldown" concern, the exception being his ult.

I've been going R > Q > W > E, and just building tanky first, since he doesn't need damage to do damage early on, unlike a lot of other metagolems. I think he's gone from near useless to a force to be reckoned with, though I'm not sure if people will cry for nerfs yet. Though he does seem to be the new FotM ban.
 
I have been afflicted with the Curse of Shen. Almost every game I use him in, I lose. I can get a ton of kills, farm super well, but lose. My last fiasco was me solo top against freaking Mordekaiser. I was 16 CS behind, with a 1/1/2 to his 0/2/0. BUT WE STILL LOST. Shen can more thank keep a lane under control, but his team can still lose 4v4s. It's saddening. I might start jungling him, since the largest drawback by far of going solo top as Shen is that if you ult a teammate to save them, your tower is going down. You pretty much need to have your ult and TP to not lose top as Shen after your ult.
 
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And so goes the trials and tribulations of Shen in ranked. 3rd ranked game with him, 3rd win. CS is horrifying because I had to face Lee Sin and Olaf top originally, and I am admittedly terrible at dodging axes and sonic waves AND last hitting creeps. And holy hell was that Nautilus good. Eventually we just kept chaining our CC to get free kills on Olaf, and his team was piiiiiissed. Shen might be a bit too strong now...though surprisingly, half of the people I play with seem incredulous when I call Shen solo top, while the other half are happy because they have a Shen on their team.
 
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