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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

-shrug- Whatever guys, I'll leave you to level your Dravens however you want.


Just note the differences in damage and overall utility that is provided by increased movement speed and attack speed, math has a way of messing with your head if you use it out of context.

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http://www.lolpro.com/guides/draven/338-draven-guide-duo-bot

Here is a guide that Crs Cop released on the subject, though I tend to like Q more. Sometimes going E can be beneficial, especially for the added utility. In your solo queue games however, I'd recommend going Q over E after maxing W.

Now please, either ask an intelligent question or shut the hell up.
 
A pro player did it, that means it's a flawless piece of logic and thought process, right?

This isn't an appeal to authority, right?

Ravix, I only have a request. Don't be so condescending. Also, if at all possible, if you think the math is being used out of context, please describe how. Hinting at it being wrong for vague reasons doesn't help you out in any way.
 
Age of Kings said:
Just played my first solo queue SR game in like...8 months and my being out of practice top lane showed. It seems like every single game I try to play Wukong the enemy pulls out someone with mad harrass (game that made me quit top lane soloq was against Lee Sin top). Lane against Nid was absolutely awful, dodging her spear is easy in of itself but I was too afraid to last hit unless I forced her to waste her CD. EQW depletes my mana pool quickly so I couldn't spam it all day. I would love to pull out Cho again but he is unreliable in solo queue. Any suggestions on tactics or champs to deal with top lanes like Nid or Lee Sin?
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By unreliable do you mean it's hard to carry as him? Because if you do, then yeah I agree, but if you mean he's like all or nothing in lane (in the sense that his top lane matchups either can't touch him or obliterate him) then that's easy to work around. First, you have a jungler to gank for you, and if you can land a q and your jungler has enough cc or dps, it's pretty much a sure kill, which then can lead to you getting too tanky for them to get through your sustain. Second, when I get a hard matchup as Cho, starting cloth+5 pots can do wonders for you, not just because of the great sustain it provides, along with your passive, but also for the psychological factor. A lot of people (myself included sometimes) get pretty discouraged from harassing when they see a cloth+5 start, so it's likely they'll just refrain from doing so, letting you farm however much you want.

If all else fails you can just go philo+hog, q+w the caster minions whenever you can, and feasting whichever one comes close to you; but I've actually done pretty well with Cho using the above advice. Like, once I was vs a Darius and as soon as I saw him I was like "oh shit top's lost", but my jungle pantheon ganked top at lvl 1 and he got fb, and from there I just afk farmed while sustaining through his harass. Never got a kill from me and I outfarmed him hard. Last thing, although it's pretty obvious, ALWAYS build to counter your lane, then itemize for their entire team when laning phase is over.
 
TheValkyries said:
A pro player did it, that means it's a flawless piece of logic and thought process, right?

This isn't an appeal to authority, right?

Ravix, I only have a request. Don't be so condescending. Also, if at all possible, if you think the math is being used out of context, please describe how. Hinting at it being wrong for vague reasons doesn't help you out in any way.
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Not so much an appeal as much as a piece of evidence to back-up my claim, I'll support it further.

I'll take that condescending part and work on it, it's something I struggle with in my writing.

As for explaining it further, I'll go ahead and explain myself more properly so that you can understand it as I do.

At first you might think that Draven is built around catching his spinning axes and using them to deal extra damage, while that is partially true it isn't in the way that you are thinking.

Since catching his spinning axe resets the cooldown on his steroid "Blood rush" the focus shifts from maxing Q to maxing W (And then E at higher level play, Q is fine for lowish elo). The reason for this? The movespeed and attack speed offer more to you in the realm of trades and following up on kills/damage. If you were relying solely on Q to get your damage early on you would have to micro-manage catching 2 spinning blades, not only is this hard to do but it falls off towards the mid game as well. Compounding on the fact that it is already hard to catch your spinning blades, relying on them for your damage is quite harmful. As if you should miss any of them you quickly lose your advantage.

Alternatively, maxing W allows you to constantly move faster than your opponents as well as hit faster with your auto-attacks. It allows you to chase down kills as well as escape due to your greater speed. In team fights, that extra movespeed and attack speed make the difference in positioning and in overall damage output. Movement speed is something I often see highly underestimated and I urge you to think outside of the box when determining a skills usefulness or not.

The goal with playing Draven is to use your Q to reset your W cooldown every 2 seconds, keeping your Blood Rush active and moving thus giving you the advantage in team fights vs. other carries who don't have access to such a constant boost in damage. His E further acts as disruption against the enemy team and can be used in combination with his W to kite away enemy champions. Catching your axes is the most important part of playing draven and is what makes maxing W so much more safe and efficient than maxing Q.

If Draven were to focus just on his spinning blades then he wouldn't be a very good AD champion, he would be far too reliant on a variable that can be manipulated by outside events (Other than player skill). But by focusing on using it to reset your cooldowns you enable yourself to obtain a constant steroid that will allow you to ultimately put out more damage and thus be a better carry.

"I like to play aggressively on Draven because of his Blood Rush. It will allow you to get extra hits in on the enemy AD carry or support, and it allows you to get out with the speed boost if you need to. You can pop your Blood Rush and hit them with a Spinning Axe, catch the Axe, reset your cooldown on Blood Rush, and do more damage."

-Cop

"Nope, maxing W is how you get all your damage early game, how you secure kills, and how you escape dodgy situations. It lets you build nothing but AD early game, allowing for pretty massive leads."

-Ataraxla

If I wasn't specific on something that you are wondering about, feel free to ask about it and I'll try my best to explain it.
 
Let's look at raw DPS:
Q: +10% AD steroid on-hit, ~7% more DPS per level
W: 5% more DPS per level

Q gives more DPS flat out. But lets consider another situation: you don't want to catch your Q because it puts you in a dangerous situation. Maxing Q lowers the cooldown if you heaven forbid miss a catch. Also, if you happen to only get one hit in before needing to last hit a minion or whatever, Q by far takes the cake. Attack speed doesn't scale when you only attack once...

Also, one point in E+W sounds like quite enough escape to me for kiting ability, and 5% added movespeed per level is kinda moot - I'd have to see an exact situation where getting 40% vs 20% ms actually changes your ability to kite most ADC.
 
RaRe555 said:
By unreliable do you mean it's hard to carry as him? Because if you do, then yeah I agree
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Yeah, that's what I meant. Cho is my favorite champion and he is a ton of fun to play. He is a good champion, but he is not good to play in solo queue. Despite his versatility, he requires specific team comps, doesn't faceroll as far as damage goes (unless you are so fed that you can afford Rylai's and Wit's End very early, or fuck, you get Rabadon's first in lieu of Rylai's), and my god more champs have dashes and gap closers now than when I first played him.

I suppose that I should choose someone different than Wukong...I have to agree with Ravix in that he has more bad matchups than good. I had the bad luck to fight against two of his worse match-ups. I guess if I decide to keep playing solo queue top lane, I'll just play Riven.
 
does anybody else feel that MRes/level glyphs for AD carries are ... weak? I feel they provide little during laning phases and although 24 MRes is decent, for such a squishy role it is almost wasted. However, I haven't done any mathcrafting so I am probably overlooking the amount of damage it actually mitigates....
In the meantime, I'm using attack speed and mana regen/level. Maybe 0.7 armor (x9 = 6.3) to help laning against the common flat AD quints?
 
You're also forgetting that you need to build AS without maxing W, with W you can build straight AD and do great. It's much like how Vayne builds Phantom dancer first because she has an AD sterioid, we have an AS steroid coupled with an MS steroid. Both allow us to get more auto-attacks off in an exchange or in a fight.

One point in Q allows you to gain a 45% AD steroid, complementing that with faster Auto-attacks and movement speed only seems obvious. The goal of every carry should be to focus on their steroid. Q can be maxed second for an eventual rise in dps, but W being the focus is where we draw our power from.

Having a constant 60% movement speed and 40% AS steroid doesn't sound fantastic to you? It might take awhile, but we should be able to pull out the mathcrafting if we need to.

Renosaur said:
does anybody else feel that MRes/level glyphs for AD carries are ... weak? I feel they provide little during laning phases and although 24 MRes is decent, for such a squishy role it is almost wasted. However, I haven't done any mathcrafting so I am probably overlooking the amount of damage it actually mitigates....
In the meantime, I'm using attack speed and mana regen/level. Maybe 0.7 armor (x9 = 6.3) to help laning against the common flat AD quints?
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I personally use AD Reds, Armour Yellows, MR blues, and AD reds. Just because I know that the people I'm playing with aren't perfect and I like being stronger earlier in the game. It comes down to preference though. I wouldn't switch anything besides the blues and reds though. Some people like armour pen red, I like AD because it makes last hitting easier.
 
Pro players also buy Void Staff when they don't have any substantial MR to penetrate and do a lot of other questionable things on occasion. Most pros are pros because they are mechanically skilled, not necessarily master theorycrafters, but that isn't the only way to improve your game. A superior rune and mastery setup, item build, and skill (spell) order can make up deficiencies in mechanical skill.

Ravix said:
At first you might think that Draven is built around catching his spinning axes and using them to deal extra damage, while that is partially true it isn't in the way that you are thinking.

Since catching his spinning axe resets the cooldown on his steroid "Blood rush" the focus shifts from maxing Q to maxing W (And then E at higher level play, Q is fine for lowish elo). The reason for this? The movespeed and attack speed offer more to you in the realm of trades and following up on kills/damage. If you were relying solely on Q to get your damage early on you would have to micro-manage catching 2 spinning blades, not only is this hard to do but it falls off towards the mid game as well. Compounding on the fact that it is already hard to catch your spinning blades, relying on them for your damage is quite harmful. As if you should miss any of them you quickly lose your advantage.
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You get most of the benefit of Blood Rush from the first point. By Level 4, you should have a point in all of your skills.

You get 5% AS per point leveling Blood Rush further, which is +5% autoattack DPS. In comparison, the 10% AD you get from leveling Spinning Axe is worth about +6.5% damage. These figures are simplified for the sake of concise posting but any idiot can tell you that the latter is a bigger value. (If you completely math it out both values will be less due to complicating factors.) Spinning Axe is quite plainly superior when making simple trades in lane, throwing out the occasional auto when the other guy goes to CS rather than all-in pure DPSing, as AS is irrelevant there.

Catching axes resets the cooldown on Blood Rush but it also, you know, continually ensures that Spinning Axe itself applies to your autoattacks. Catching or missing rebounds therefore provides the same relative benefit to both skills. The only difference is that Spinning Axe reapplies automatically, without having to spend more mana! If you put more of your DPS in the hands of Blood Rush as opposed to Spinning Axe, you'll quickly run out of mana attempting to keep it applied. So not only do you have worse DPS, more of it is tied to your mana pool! Also, what doesn't show on paper but is a very real problem with Blood Rush is that you hardly take advantage of your AS steroid at all if you're wasting time repositioning to catch axes, as you cannot move and attack at the same time. Spinning Axe also gets reduced cooldown per level and Blood Rush does not, yet another reason to level Q first.

The movespeed boost is considerable but, again, the benefit is pretty marginal per skill point. You get the bulk of the movespeed with Level 1 Blood Rush. Leveling it further gets you a whole 15-20 movespeed per skill point. Grats, you moved from the edge of Graves' autoattack range to Corki's over 1.5 seconds! Less than that even, since the movespeed bonus decays over the duration and you run into diminishing returns at the high end of the bonus.

"The goal of every carry should be to focus on their steroid."

First off, both Spinning Axe and Blood Rush are steroids so it's tough to argue for Blood Rush based purely on that principle. Secondly, this isn't true at all. There is not a single AD carry with an AS steroid that levels it first. Kog'maw levels his damage/range steroid first, Graves / MF /Twist all level their nukes first, Tristana levels both her damage abilities and her steroid comes last.
 
I level vayne's silver bolts after I take two points in Tumble, but I agree that I said that wrong. Since tristana favors burst over DPS in lane she often levels W first, Graves also doesn't max his steroid first as it's his escape mechanism and should only be used to secure a kill.

However, on this particular AD carry maxing W is superior in my opinion, the added AD doesn't surpass the advantages you gain from having more AS and movement speed. You wouldn't be using it constantly in lane either, you would only use it when committed to harass or escaping back to your turret. Mana problems are self inflicted. It's easy enough for you to attack and then animation cancel into your axe, which always falls in front of where you are running.

Do note that the extra AD from his Q is 85% times 0.6, as only 0.6 of the bonus is used.

So starting at a 27% you move up 4.8% every skill point. (At least that's what this builder is telling me, confirm?)

I really don't want to sit down and math this out, because even then there are outside factors that change the usefulness of one ability over another. Point blank, go try whichever build you think is going to work for you and then try the other one. See which one you like more and stick with it, I'm going to go with mine simply because it makes more sense to me and has more use outside of sitting still and trading hits in lane.

I'm too tired to continue arguing about this, maybe we can mathcraft some other night. But for now let's just leave it at this.
 
How do you play Ziggs and deal damage.

I go literally full damage, but I deal less damage then tank ahri.

EDIT: Let me clarify that. I did less damage with 3 Dorans Rings and Sorceror's Shoes then an Ahri with Tear and CDR Boots.

And I'm also frustrated because of the only skillshot in the game that can be dodged by walking towards the skillshot.
 
pulsefire ezreal is pretty sexy, and i appreciate riot putting so much work in their game.

"We were starting to getting frustrated when Sho, one of our Animators, walked by wearing this brand new, hard plastic motorcycle backpack. We looked at each other at the same time, and realized that was it! So we had him modeling that for us, and that’s where we got the basic idea. "

damn riot has a lot of sexy dudes working for them

sho.png
 
shinyskarmory said:
How do you play Ziggs and deal damage.

I go literally full damage, but I deal less damage then tank ahri.

EDIT: Let me clarify that. I did less damage with 3 Dorans Rings and Sorceror's Shoes then an Ahri with Tear and CDR Boots.

And I'm also frustrated because of the only skillshot in the game that can be dodged by walking towards the skillshot.
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Yeah, Ziggs really isn't too notable in the damage department...
 
trying to get used to unlocked camera for obvious reasons. any tips?

also playing a bit of jungle rammus this week, he's a pretty unique champion imo though im pretty bad at him
 
pug you could try just holding down space when you're moving around in the jungle or going to lane ect, places where its okay to follow your character. when you're cs'ing though leave it off and try to keep the camera positioned where your champ will stay in the top/bottom 30% of the screen. you'll find that you're much quicker to react to enemy aggression if you can see your opponents movements relative to the lane as opposed to relative to you. if you give yourself the option to switch it on/off by using space you'll find there are some times where its really nice to have locked camera like against skillshot champs, but if you're struggling in a game while using unlocked you should switch it back on and only use unlocked when you're out of danger, just to get used to the feel of looking somewhere while your champ does something else.
 
Can anyone comment on triple GP10 Soraka? I've been using it as my main Soraka build lately (Philo-> Boots/HoG -> Boots/HoG -> Kage's -> Ionians -> Aegis -> Shurelya's -> Randuin's) and it's been pretty solid aside from not having enough item slots for pink wards after I start Aegis. I've been outgolding opposing supports by roughly 2k (equal kda).
 
Excellent first post.

But, there has never been a skin that is more worth it. And, most everybody who wants to buy it is going to buy at its reduced, regular Legendary price.
 
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