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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2864421

BIG news for the pro scene. Riot puts its foot down on IWillDominate, and people on reddit are already coming out with "GG" and "IWillSpectate" and dumb crap like that that probably isn't that far from what got IWD banned.

That being said, where do you think Dignitas will go for a new player? The popular theory right now is Crumbzz moving to jungle and WingsofDeathx being picked up to play top lane, but I've heard all kinds of stuff like Lautemortis or The Rain Man or even Azingy from different people on my friends list.

What do you guys think?
 
I am disappointed with the new patch. You can't get the Muramana and the Seraph's Embrace on the same Mana Charge stack. Rip hyper burst Ryze :(...
 
you can get AA and stack it up to seraph's embrace and then get a manamune and stack it up separately

but that would be a waste of time and frozen heart/banshee's veil/other mana items are better

liandry's doesn't seem too bad on him either because flat penetration is super power now
 
ive played one co op game since the patch and I already have fallen in love with the new Kage's upgrade with the active slow thing. Really amazing item for supports so many uses you can get out of it its awesome. Also really liking the sightstone really makes supports more interesting imo now we can build more stuff along with various upgrades
 
I don't really like the new season. Feels like a completely different game.

when the alternative is having a stagnant metagame with the same items for another year i would much prefer this

the changes are great - they added a ton of variety but kept old builds relevant. after the preseason testing when everything's balanced, these changes can only be good for the game.

speaking of balance i'm finding that sightstone is really really good on junglers and that many of the good junglers don't even need the spirit stone upgrades (although wriggle's is still excellent). spirit stone will make weaker junglers like sejuani have a fighting chance but top-tier jungles like mundo and amumu clear fast enough as it is and are better off IMO starting cloth 5 and using that to get a faster aegis.
 
new patch comes out and iwilldonminate gets banned. today was a good day.

for the new stuff, hurricane is like, really powerful. also my new favorite item is mikaels crucible. whoever thought that was a good idea, im gonna be using it on everyone.
 
New shit isn't as different as it seems. The nice part is all the new items to play with but the masteries are actually more similar than they first appear. Still, so much new stuff is like a wet dream to the stat nerd and powergamer in me. I could go on forever about this stuff. I think I'll just ramble.

New Tiamat/Hydra seems ridiculous. 100% AoE AD nuke on a 10s cooldown? Every other item has ult-level cooldown timers, yet this thing is a standard everyday nuke. New Black Cleaver is Pillager with shred instead of spell vamp. <3 Iceborn Gauntlet is fucking AoE Frozen Mallet with a Sheen attached and actually cost-efficient stats.

Sightstone might be the best item ever. No Heart of Gold? No problem. Sightstone also grants health and everybody should buy wards, so it's every bit as universal. But at 700g it's cheaper than any gold item (same price as new Philo) and two free wards every three minutes is worth an effective 8.33~ gold/10s, so it pays for itself much faster. Did I mention it sells back for the standard 70% shop price? This isn't a support item, this is a fucking everyone item. EVERYONE.

Pickpocket might be the best mastery ever, or at least the best non-21-pointer since Nimbleness was killed. At its max potential it's worth 6 gold/10 (ranged) or 10 gold/10, which is absolutely fucking insane. I mean yeah, best case won't happen like that but looking at it another way, even if you're ranged you only need one attack per MINUTE on an enemy champion to match a point in Greed, which is already a high tier mastery, and that's more than manageable for any laner. (Melee have a tougher time abusing it but they have a 1:40 to work with.)

Pickpocket makes me want to go full Utility on every laner practically. That said, Defense tree is really strong still. While it loses the niceties of Movespeed and CDR, the raw survivability you get from the tree is unparalleled. Juggernaut is particularly overpowered but every mastery is worth the points, I can actually envision putting more than 21 points into it: penetration masteries aren't that strong if you deal sufficiently split damage, Runic Affinity isn't that great if you're not regularly getting jungle buffs, and Biscuiteer is mediocre (it's basically a stronger Wealth that is automatically spent on a potion) as the standard 9-pointers.

Offense is pretty much the exact same thing, minus Vampirism being absorbed by Utility and plus the one-point wonder Spellblade for AP champs. Uncoupling Sorcery from Arcane Knowledge was nice for AD bruisers that prefer CDR to AS, on the other hand having Blast linked to it now sucks for some bruisers that otherwise liked the magic pen but are cold on AP. Meh, I still don't see myself going 21 Offense in most instances. Utility is much stronger now for most AP champs, Pickpocket being the big winner there, and Defense only got better when it was already the best tree in Season 2.

Destruction and Scout somehow managed to get worse than in Season 2 when they were already worthless and very close to worthless, respectively. Changing 10 flat damage to 5%? When the hell was I ever doing 200 damage to a turret to begin with, a full item carry that already flattens turrets in no time flat? At least Scout lasts long enough now for low-level melee champs to ward clear with their Vision Ward but it doesn't solve the underlying problem: why the fuck are you pinking a spot you don't even know is warded? And while Oracle's is no longer permanent, supports and junglers can afford it much sooner with it being cheaper and more gold income, making pinks all the more situational.

The Spirit Stone items are really cool. They're actually good enough that non-junglers can pick these things up and the Butcher passive is just gravy for objective control or typical "laner steals jungle camp" behavior. Combined with increased jungle rewards and ambient gold, I feel like junglers should have a much better time being able to afford real items. (Supports too!) Now they shouldn't be obligated to get gold items and they have more options than Wriggle's for a strong mid-level item. Lizard in particular seems busted with spammable AoE like on, oh I dunno, Darius or Hecarim.

Gold items will still be worth getting on nonsupports, though. Philo Stone is still cost-efficient, though it's more on the mana side now, and it's cheaper so you can rush it faster while it maintains its full 5 gold/10. Kage's didn't get nerfed much and builds into the interesting new Twin Shadows, shame it's no longer part of DFG's recipe since that looks better than ever. Avarice Blade is actually stronger than before (2 gold-per-kill = 12g/30s max per minion wave) if you can avoid being driven out of lane often. That said, Sightstone is so amazing you should probably just get that instead unless you're planning on an endgame build that has an upgrade item for one.

Liandry's Torment won't be as awesome as people think it is. Shit, nobody remembers that we just got Blackfire Torch like a month ago and it was underpowered when Riot nerfed it from max% to current% health right before going live? THIS IS PRACTICALLY THE SAME ITEM. Yeah yeah I know it doubles on impaired targets but that isn't consistent (unless you get Rylai's too) and it loses the CDR. It'll be great on Rumble, who has probably the single best spell in the game for abusing it and doesn't give a shit about CDR either, but I feel like it's a noob trap for the most part.

Not sure the jungle really balances out single-target with AoE junglers that well. The total health of each camp has gone way up, so true single-target clearers like Trundle or GP are still going to have relatively slow clear times. It will curb the stronger AoE a bit and prevent Wraiths especially from just being insta-cleared on spawn, but for the most part AoE is still there chipping away and killing the small creeps without having to pull your focus away from the large one.

Eh, that's all I got right now I think. I love talking about it though.
 
Shit, nobody remembers that we just got Blackfire Torch like a month ago and it was underpowered when Riot nerfed it from max% to current% health right before going live?

Are you being sarcastic? It is incredibly over powered especially on champions with DoTs (Singed, Brand, etc). Have you been playing 3s and Crystal Scar at all? It just got nerfed again but it's still really powerful with a convenient build path.
 
Are you being sarcastic? It is incredibly over powered especially on champions with DoTs (Singed, Brand, etc). Have you been playing 3s and Crystal Scar at all? It just got nerfed again but it's still really powerful with a convenient build path.

Apparently you haven't actually looked at the math behind it because RoA + Rylais had comparable damage output to RoA + Blackfire Torch on Singed. Brand could already build anything and was never really good on TT anyway so idk why you would play him in the first place.

Anyway, the biggest qualm I have about Sightstone is it's a 700 gold dump. If you do plan on getting it, you can't just go back to base with like 200 gold and get 2 wards or whatever. It's an investment, you have to plan to get it, and personally that 700 gold would rather be invested towards an item because otherwise that 200-300 gold that I back with seems like a waste at that time because I didn't actually use it on anything that helps me right now, instead will only help me in the future. I doubt you'd back with exactly 700 gold anyway, so that much can be used towards a Chain Vest/Negatron Cloak which would probably win your lane more than wards will if you play correctly.
 
I really don't see Pickpocket being that useful. Sure the gold is nice but you have to invest at least 17 points in Utility. This means that while you get your build done faster, you won't be quite as strong as if you invested more in offense/defense due to the % increase masteries in those two trees. Still, a laner that already goes heavy utility like Ryze could make use of it. Gonna have to actually try it because right now, I have Ryze on a 11/0/19 mastery page so I can still give him the spell pen, CDR, and butcher.

Hydra and Hurricane are really good right now. Just getting Bloodthirster and Hydra on someone like Fiora means you 100-0 squishies really fast as well as melting jungle camps and minions for more gold and BT stacks. Hurricane isn't as useful, but it does allow single target champs like Teemo to clear minions and camps much faster.

On the subject of Teemo, he's still really powerful. Even with just boots, he can take away a good chunk of health with one auto attack, making him zone champs really easily. Once you get Malady, you can just melt champs that don't stack HP or MR and Hydra just allows you to melt multiple champs and minions quickly.
 
Still debating whether or not Seraph's Embrace or Muramune is gonna be better on Ryze...my bet is it's going to vary game to game but Seraph's will be the safer, most conventional approach.

Thoughts?
 
Definitely Seraph's Embrace. Muramune means you have to take time autoattacking and that's going to significantly slow down his combo, while Seraph's Embrace adds a useful shield while amplifying your AP as well as your mana. I would still leave it as Tear for a while before upgrading it (Frozen Heart/Banshee's Veil/other items take priority).

Pickpocket is a godsend for ranged supports and very useful for ranged AP mids who can afford to run 21 utility, especially those with long attack range.

I'm running Sightstone as a second item on supports and a lot of junglers, and TiensiNoAkuma wrote on his Facebook page that he's planning on trying it out as a second item on Katarina.
 
Nah, Muramana works on Ryze's Q and W but would probably make him go OOM easily because he's still mana intensive even with a large mana pool. I'd still rather go Archangels because the extra AP is still useful even though Ryze's AP ratios aren't the best, they still help his spell rotation without spending a ton of mana.
 
Played a bot game as Ryze (didn't even bother trying Pickpocket because I didn't auto champs enough for it to be good). I noticed Iceborn Gauntlet (tanky sheen upgrade) actually gives more mana than Frozen Heart. It doesn't have Frozen Heart's passive, but the AoE 35% slow makes up for it. Choosing between the two of them is basically figuring out if you need to chase people down for kills or making sure their ADC doesn't melt your team. Of course, there's noting stopping you from getting both, but you'll probably go way over the max CDR.
 
seraphs embrace OP on ryze gives a 1k shield at full build

very overwhelming patch take some time to get used to and full potential
 
I still dont know if I should go muramana or seraph's on Ryze as well. The former gives Ryze a ridiculous amount of extra damage :~140-240 with your spell rotation + autos per cast/attack, which is a lot more than what the extra AP from Seraphs will give you (Assuming you have 4k mana you get 180 AP from Seraph's, which translates to 72 bonus dmg on Q, 108 on W, and 63 on E) but the latter's shield is very strong (but on a 2min cooldown). I guess this will depend if you play Ryze like you'd play an adc or a bruiser /shrug. So far I've taken a preference to Muramana since you have more freedom with manipulating your damage/mana usage, though that 1k shield looks very tempting and scales very well with his defensive items. I guess I'll have to take more time to think about this.

If you have blue buff Ryze probably won't go mana hungry with Muramana anyways. And it uses current mana too so you're not going to run out either.

@DDRMaster: Honestly if you're going in that deep in the utility tree you should just go 9/0/21 for that extra movespeed since Ryze likes ms very much.
 
So I finally got to play my first game since the S3 Update Patch.
nZIGX.jpg

ANFtY.jpg

They just killed of everyone except myself and Kat and rushed our base. Irelia and Rengar were low from tanking our turrets and our harass so once the turrets were gone we went all in and quickly killed those two, allowing for an easy cleanup of the other 3 which ended in a Pentakill and win.
 
Hurricane instead of PD with IE? Still buying GA on glass cannons? Full build with gold to spare and didn't switch Zerks out for Tabi/Mercs? Three of the four people with boot enchants have Alacrity? :happybrain:

Ryze is kind of a funny edge case where it actually kinda makes sense to get Muramana since the proc applies to spells. A conventional caster is still going to get Seraph's just because they scale so well off AP. Ryze scales primarily off mana and even with the small push toward AP, his ratios are still pretty weak. It's just a question or more damage or more survivability. Don't forget Seraph's shield is off current mana too, so it also gets weaker if you pop it later in a fight.

Kind of a big nerf to Ryze either way though, since as much as he loves the new Tear items the fact is it lost 350 max mana. :P Should make Tear items bought more often overall though, now that Tear is less of a setback in lane (being cheaper) and the future payoff is that much better. Sounds like fun to me. However, I am disappointed in the huge hit to Archangel's mana regen. I liked that because it was basically the other big ticket item for solving mana problems where Grail wasn't wanted.

Are you being sarcastic? It is incredibly over powered especially on champions with DoTs (Singed, Brand, etc). Have you been playing 3s and Crystal Scar at all? It just got nerfed again but it's still really powerful with a convenient build path.
Keyword: Was. Currently, BFT deals max% health damage and is broken as all fuck. That's what it was on the PBE but Riot thought it was too powerful, so they nerfed it to current% right before the initial release. It was underpowered until they changed it back to max%. Liandry's is basically the same item as the original, live version of BFT.

I doubt you'd back with exactly 700 gold anyway, so that much can be used towards a Chain Vest/Negatron Cloak which would probably win your lane more than wards will if you play correctly.
Well yeah, wards have never won your lane directly. They sure help you not lose your lane because you got ganked by the jungler, though, among other reasons that knowing where your enemy is helps.

I really don't see Pickpocket being that useful. Sure the gold is nice but you have to invest at least 17 points in Utility. This means that while you get your build done faster, you won't be quite as strong as if you invested more in offense/defense due to the % increase masteries in those two trees. Still, a laner that already goes heavy utility like Ryze could make use of it. Gonna have to actually try it because right now, I have Ryze on a 11/0/19 mastery page so I can still give him the spell pen, CDR, and butcher.
19 deep and you're taking Butcher over a 21-pointer? :evan:
Still, that's always been the case with Utility. Two of the main draws of the tree, more experience and gold, don't help you in a 60-minute game. But the fact is that few games get to the point of full builds and many of them even end before players hit Level 18, in which case the masteries are generally superior to the raw stats you get from Offense or Defense. One level is worth 2.6-4.2 AD, 70-108 Health, etc. not to mention the extra skill point. You lose the advantage if the game goes long enough for everyone else to catch up, which happens reasonably often with XP but rarely with gold.

If 1/1 Pickpocket is even twice as good as 4/4 Greed, it's hideously broken.
 
On my first support game of the new season, as Sona, I managed a full item build on a 40 minute game at most. Pickpocket, sight stone, the new items, and more passive gold are VERY good for supports.
 
19 deep and you're taking Butcher over a 21-pointer? :evan:

Yeah I initially thought the relatively small percent on movespeed wouldn't be good on Ryze. Definitely gonna use it now. As for Butcher, I like being able to farm those minions without using mana, even if it is only about a 7% increase in damage.
 
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