-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
am i reading this....?
?
Nidalee lost approximately 600g worth of armor (two cloth armors) and 870g worth of MR at lv.18 (2.175 null mantles) in cougar form. I think that's more than 400g.
Ok I usually don't vent (since i dont like blaming people) but this is stupid.
Ok so preface: I got to silver last season, then i ramboed ranked a little too hard, and my placement matches weren't pretty. So I ended up in Bronze 4, and slowly clawing my way out...
ANYWAYS, whistle offered me to duo, using a Silver 1 alt. So everyone else in this game besides me (Bronze 3 zzz) is around silver 5-2 iirc. Well the game started, and I was glad that people had slightly more clue on what to do.
But it seems like I still can't escape people raging so much at each other along w/ ppl being clueless in general. whistle dced for a bit unfortunately, which led to taric feeding enemy corki immensely, and top Mundo was running around doing whatever he wants, and our Singed and Taric chasing ridiculously Lulu deep only to find an entire enemy team in their faces (bot and mid were pushed to our tower so it's not like we could really go help them...). Xin and Taric were throwing insults at each other and I couldn't keep them calm. Xin decides to go steal the enemy blue only to find an entire enemy team there and dying. whistle's Ashe managed to recover from the dc and got a lot of farm, but the damage everywhere else was unrepairable.
tl;dr: Can I just get some peace ;_;? Don't need to be super good or anything, just...a team that can work together and have some understanding of the game.
Oh did I mention we got baron stolen too?
Actually I think it's more like 1500...
EDIT: thank you Jibaku.
And yeah, 1400-1500 gold is a pretty big deal. A melee champ needs solid resists to do its job in a teamfight, especially with base stats as poor as Nidalee.
Imagine taking a BF Sword away from your favorite AD Carry's endgame build. Goldwise, that's basically what Riot did to Nidalee.
I guess when I made the comment I didn't have a calculator at my side to calculate the individual stat efficiency to find out how much gold you were losing, sorry.
And I honestly want to know what's stopping you from just...building resistances. You don't have to give up too much damage to do it. You can pick up Abyssal/Athenes and Zhonya's if you're AP Nid, or one of Maw/Wit's End and one of Atmas/Iceborn/Sunfire if you're AD. Just means that if you want to play a bruiser-esque Nidalee you'll have to build differently instead of just going straight AP. You still have a heal and a spamable dash to get you out of trouble.
You'll just need to actually invest in defenses to be as tanky as you were before.
EDIT: I'm unhappy with all of the complaints (not just here) about the Nidalee nerfs. At least your champion got some time in the sun and is still playable afterwards! Some champions who went FoTM just got outright destroyed (see: old Eve, old Xin, Diana, Rengar). With all the free power Nidalee has in her kit (traps that have the resistance shred of a Void Staff and Last Whisper? free movement speed in brush and a jump on a 4 second cooldown?), at least they didn't touch a key part of her.
And I honestly want to know what's stopping you from just...building resistances. You don't have to give up too much damage to do it. You can pick up Abyssal/Athenes and Zhonya's if you're AP Nid, or one of Maw/Wit's End and one of Atmas/Iceborn/Sunfire if you're AD. Just means that if you want to play a bruiser-esque Nidalee you'll have to build differently instead of just going straight AP. You still have a heal and a spamable dash to get you out of trouble.
You'll just need to actually invest in defenses to be as tanky as you were before.
EDIT: I'm unhappy with all of the complaints (not just here) about the Nidalee nerfs. At least your champion got some time in the sun and is still playable afterwards! Some champions who went FoTM just got outright destroyed (see: old Eve, old Xin, Diana, Rengar). With all the free power Nidalee has in her kit (traps that have the resistance shred of a Void Staff and Last Whisper? free movement speed in brush and a jump on a 4 second cooldown?), at least they didn't touch a key part of her.
i trie 2 make this the nicest way posible, but your entire playstyle itself is complete anti teamwork
i still <3 u tho jib...
/runs
You do realize that still takes cash that could be going into a different stat (or even more tankiness right)? This makes as much sense as saying removing Vayne's atk steroid from her ult is ok since you can just buy a BF to make up for it.
With Black Cleaver and Liandries all over the place how much do your resistances mean anyways?
Taking away a BF Sword's worth of gold IS a gamebreaking nerf. How would you feel if Riot made Vayne's Final Hour give 10 bonus AD instead of 55? Cause goldwise, that's basically what Riot did to Nida.
No offense, but your comment about buying defense is literally the stupidest thing I've read in many months. By that logic, any and all nerfs are fine, because you can just build more of the nerfed stat!
The problem people have is that Riot destroyed one of Nidalee's fun playstyles. AP Nid is fine. Splitpush Troll Nid with a more offensive build is fine. But the Tanky, Maknoon-style Nidalee, has been made unviable.
And no, it's not the same thing as removing Vayne's AD steroid. Most AD carry items do not come with defenses, while many AP items do. Thus, it's much easier for Nidalee to invest in defenses then Vayne.
dude liandry is 15 magic pen black cleaver takes stacks to get high armor pen in and they don't null your resistances they just eat 25% max...i can't believe i'm actually reading this, especially when someone questions how important being tanky is for a splitpusher...
I'm sure you didn't mean this literally, but it's been noteworthy to me that around a third of my solo Q wins have involved a lot of teamwork. I remember one game I fed Akali two kills in lane cuz I'm bad, but instead of getting upset at me my team responded by all buying pink wards (it was a relatively low kill game). One fight we dropped two pink wards into her shroud, had a little laugh about it, then decided that Lulu would drop her pinks first next fight. Now this isn't some amazing strategy that we came up with, but it was a team adaptation to an unforeseen issue, and as minute as it seems, it really brought us together as a team and we proceeded to roll through to a super fast victory.
can u figure out what u did wrong in this post? i give u hint. it has to do with "vayne's ad steroid" and "it's much easier to nidalee to invest in defenses [than] vayne"
You missed the point entirely, I was talking about losing gold in stats, not defenses. Stop getting so hung up on the idea that Nidalee can buy resistances, it really is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Cho'Gath can "buy defenses" too. If I took away 500 HP from his ult at max rank (the rough value of Nidalee's gold lost from this nerf) that would still really hurt him.
If you don't think that this nerf will really hurt Tanky DPS Nidalee, I invite you to watch the professional scene over the next few months. Watch as Nidalee is completely relegated to an AP/Splitpusher role, if she even gets played at all. Watch the famous, fun playstyle of Tanky DPS Nidalee completely vanish.
I love how nobody addressed all the free stuff Nidalee has in her kit. Dash on a 4 sec CD that costs no mana? Manaless wave clear? Traps that shed a Last Whisper and Void Staff's worth of resists? Skillshot nuke that deals up to 250% damage?
What would you rather have removed? One of those things? Or some armor and MR.
I think you'd prefer what Riot did then, say, people not having to recall after being hit by one spear.
What would you rather have removed? One of those things? Or some armor and MR.
I think you'd prefer what Riot did then, say, people not having to recall after being hit by one spear.
.
Hugh Myronbrough said:
Go ahead and list what abilities a champ has. You can make anything sound OP that way.
But that doesn't even concern the point at hand lol... people were addressing you saying buying armor and mr is ok 'just like that'. Nidalee has a fuckton of skills, i can list jayce's and elise's too just because they bring a lot of dmg / utility like it's to be expected from every 6 skill champ, but nidalee has shortcomings such as lack of CC and her newfound extreme frailty that isn't exclusive to her human form anymore. she isn't malphite in a sense that if you fall behind you're still offering your team huge amounts of CC and i find those nerfs unecessary simply because in my opinion nidalee was never OP just ridiculously omfg annoying to face, and if the problem is her spears, then nerf her bloody spears and not do what they did to sona and remove armor from a champ that isn't 'resillent in lane' as they said.
Please compare Karma's list to Nidalees and then decide whether it was a good idea to post that. You just proved my point: Nid has so much unnecessary shit in her kit that the nerfs were justified.
EDIT: Katarina and Akali are both frail and neither of them use mana or have CC. Your argument is invalid.
EDIT 2: I think being squishy is a perfectly reasonable drawback for the amount of mobility and poke Nid has. Maybe I'm the only one...
You missed the point. mtr was making the point not that Karma is strong but that champs have abilities, and you can list abilities and out of context make them sound strong. By themselves, abilities in a list are not arguments for overpoweredness. Versatility is one of Nidalee's specific strengths as a form-changing champion, so you can't just say 'she has lots of abilities' and expect that to fly as a justification for her being OP by itself; furthermore, the nerf was undoubtedly harsh and may have hit her from the wrong angle. (I have no opinion as I don't play Nidalee and don't care. I just hate her.) Also, her warranting nerfs does not mean the nerf itself was appropriate in severity or execution.
Again, I don't have an opinion, but your arguments don't really hold that much water. =/
Also, champions are entitled to spells. Those aren't 'free'. Or rather, they are free but it doesn't matter. Free things are stuff like steroids or passives, in context of the stats being free. Only some of that utility could be considered free. If you want to make the argument her kit is unnecessary, explain why it's unnecessary instead of just making the point that she has a lot of stuff, imo, and then you might start to get somewhere. Although I think people here will still disagree with you.
Katarina and Akali also have much more DPS than a Tanky Nidalee could ever aspire to put out. Also, with Warmogs Rush builds, neither of them are too "frail."
I could do the same thing with Jayce and Elise, listing how they have so many skills and must be overpowered. Or really any champion. It doesn't matter. What makes a champion overpowered is what they do in the game, not what abilities they have.
And in terms of what they did in the game, well, AP Nidalee had literally 2 combat spells in a teamfight lol. So your listing of all her abilities is even more invalid.
But their players were able to compensate for Akali and Katarina's fragility-why can't you? Why is the other guy the only one who can adapt?
I'm done with this argument, I'm clearly not persuading you and you're never going to persuade me so we might as well just stop.
I'm done with this argument, I'm clearly not persuading you and you're never going to persuade me so we might as well just stop.
TBH I'd rather spears and traps got gutted than cougar defenses, but that's just me.