Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[Prowlermon]

And yeah, I think stamina or defiant could be better in Mlucha

And an ability that values the psychic side of Malamar could be good, like psyche terrain, or something like that, since it is part of the lore, but keeping contrary would also be acceptable (even if not pokemon good enough)

Pyroar also could be get the Competitive ability, because of not just be a special attacker mon, but lions are territorialists animals in its territory, and could also have Flame body, Since your dex talks about the heat your body produces to protect yourself and your a,llies

Dnite I think could have the Aerilate or sumn Gale Wings type shit, or even Sheer Force, because of the lore of Dragonite and the characteristics of Dragonair as well

Chesnaught both Bulletproof and Rough Skin makes sense, even Battle Armor, because it tells how resistant the chesnaught's armor is and the coat is thick enough to tank hits

 

[GoTELuckyCharms]

And yeah, I think stamina or defiant could be better in Mlucha

And an ability that values the psychic side of Malamar could be good, like psyche terrain, or something like that, since it is part of the lore, but keeping contrary would also be acceptable (even if not pokemon good enough)

Pyroar also could be get the Competitive ability, because of not just be a special attacker mon, but lions are territorialists animals in its territory, and could also have Flame body, Since your dex talks about the heat your body produces to protect yourself and your a,llies

Dnite I think could have the Aerilate or sumn Gale Wings type shit, or even Sheer Force, because of the lore of Dragonite and the characteristics of Dragonair as well

Chesnaught both Bulletproof and Rough Skin makes sense, even Battle Armor, because it tells how resistant the chesnaught's armor is and the coat is thick enough to tank hits

I am in agreement for the most part, but for the love of sanity, PLEASE don't give Dnite aerilate, it's broken him in every ability changing metagame possible.

 

[Prowlermon]

I am in agreement for the most part, but for the love of sanity, PLEASE don't give Dnite aerilate, it's broken him in every ability changing metagame possible.

The extreme speed will hurts, but the stat drop in the mega hurts a little in physical side

 

[Moyashi]

The extreme speed will hurts, but the stat drop in the mega hurts a little in physical side

It doesn’t. Aerilate more than compensates and -10 atk is barely noticeable if at all.

Beyond that, Mega Mence already exists as an Aerilate Dragon/Flying. Having two is extremely redundant when their stats are so similar.

On another note

(Mega)
Please can something be done with this. It’s way too versatile for how strong it is, and the absurd speed puts it ahead of everything that isn’t a scarfer or an already speed boosted Pokémon. There’s too limited of pools to answer it (and to be frank this would be broken even in a regular tier but there’s even fewer options here).

 

[TheCosmicTruth]

The extreme speed will hurts, but the stat drop in the mega hurts a little in physical side

losing 10 Atk doesn't reduce ESpeed power by that much. IMO the real reason DNite shouldn't get Aerilate is because it's boring. It only boosts ESpeed and Double-Edge basically, but nothing useful on the special side, which is the gimmick of the mega

(Mega)
Please can something be done with this. It’s way too versatile for how strong it is, and the absurd speed puts it ahead of everything that isn’t a scarfer or an already speed boosted Pokémon. There’s too limited of pools to answer it (and to be frank this would be broken even in a regular tier but there’s even fewer options here).

And banning the mega also reins in the overpowered base Greninja, who can't rely on guess my set mindgames if the mega doesn't exist. It's getting rid of 2 broken mons for the price of one

 

[Sugarbear]

Personally I’d give Mega Dragonite Drizzle. We’ve had megas with all the other weather summoning abilities (Charizard-Y, Tyranitar, Abomasnow), it lets it fire off perfectly accurate Hurricanes and Thunders, and also gives it a third “STAB” boost to Surf and (I think) Hydro Pump.

 

[miya_04]

Please, no more radical red type shi of abilitys, Everyone is already fed up with this and it's pretty boring, because if it were like that, it would be better to open that radical red showdown

Bro I'm genuinely trying to understand why giving a type immunity to fairy as an ability is Mickey? We have storm drain, flash fire, sap sipper, lighting rod, earth eater... thry have been done for generations and are still being implemented in recent ones as well. Fine maybe the lore reason of a reflective white skin against the light themed typing is quite weak but I'm not too good at lore stuff anyway. But from a gameplay perspective I don't really see a fairy immunity ability as anything new? Unless I'm missing something in which case please do correct me : )

By the way I'm talking about the ability I proposed of just fairy immune, not the triple immunity at full hp which I think is buns anyway.

 

[Sugarbear]

Bro I'm genuinely trying to understand why giving a type immunity to fairy as an ability is Mickey? We have storm drain, flash fire, sap sipper, lighting rod, earth eater... thry have been done for generations and are still being implemented in recent ones as well. Fine maybe the lore reason of a reflective white skin against the light themed typing is quite weak but I'm not too good at lore stuff anyway. But from a gameplay perspective I don't really see a fairy immunity ability as anything new? Unless I'm missing something in which case please do correct me : )

By the way I'm talking about the ability I proposed of just fairy immune, not the triple immunity at full hp which I think is buns anyway.

I've got no problem with Mega Scrafty having a Fairy immunity, I think that's a cool idea and as you said there've been plenty of them before. However, I do think reflecting some of the damage back is a bit overkill. Maybe have it boost SpDef by 1 stage - it's similar to stuff like Storm Drain and Lightning Rod, and synergises well with Bulk Up sets.

Also, give Mega Skarmory Gale Wings, that gives it a valuable niche compared to the other Steel type megas

 

[PokemonTrainerLui]

Mega Evolution: Meganium
New Ability: Flora Sol / Sol Flower
Ability Description: Boosts the Pokemon's Special Attack and Speed by 1.5x during strong sunglight but costs 1/4 or 1/6 max HP after using a special move during strong sunlight.
Reasoning: Meganium pokedex entry seems like it wants to be spamming Solar Beams

 

[TTK]

I'll be honest, I've been playing this metagame non-stop for the past two days since I've been stuck indoors due to illness and as much as I enjoy seeing people's opinions on giving megas new abilities or reworking older megas, that should not be the focus at this current moment in time. I believe it's yet again time for some tiering action because I know this format can be in a better place if we aggressively start tiering like we did when we banned Mega Blastoise, Mega Alakazam, and Mega Kangaskhan.

These Pokemon should go ASAP
(mega)

I don't really get the anti-zygarde sentiment explaining that it only has 100 attack, that clearly didn't stop it in SM and SS OU, where those two tiers have the current counterplay this format + more, which includes an Intimidate Landorus-T and bulky waters like Tapu Fini. Maybe Zygarde feels manageable because we're all spamming unaware clef + slowbro cores, of course Zygarde would feel balanced. Try and build a team without those two and let me know how it goes, because outside of that, you're relying on Gourgeist-XL. Everything that has remotely made it past 1400s+ doesn't like this guy, and for good reason.

Mega Greninja on its own perhaps wouldn't be that strong, we do have special walls that can check it, for example Clefable but Clef needs physdef to check Zygarde, and now you see why Clef + Slowbro cores exist. Pretty much every MGren check is a Zygarde victim and I wouldn't even consider Zygarde the main offender here. MGren is just faster than most of the tier, has access to Nasty Plot, and it seems like whatever ability it has, it just seems to be annoying. Technician didn't seem that egregious until it starts using Tech boosted Flip Turn off of 125Atk to be the most annoying pivot in this tier, or spamming Water Shuriken and basically dealing with its offensive counterplay aka scarfers if Shurikens want to land more than 3 times. Bye bye to smth like Scarf Krookodile or Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Beedrill.

Mega Metagross just hits too hard, not particularly surprising when your STAB goes from Meteor Mash to maxed out Heavy Slam and Psychic Fangs is notably stronger than Zen Headbutt. Way too bulky for its damage output as well, how can Hoopa-U fail to OHKO this thing with Hyperspace Fury, it's a darn roll to kill that isn't in your favour. Almost crashed out in real time when it didn't kill. Also just makes teams even more reliant on Slowbro and Skarmory but if you face PuP Metagross, Slowbro just gets folded by Thunder Punch and so does Skarmory. Really the only thing that really holds it back is like Mega Delphox and Mega Greninja have type advantage but the latter can't even OHKO Metagross from full HP.

Gallade is in the same exact situation as Metagross, hits way too hard. Skarmory can at least have a semblance of checking Mega Metagross but Gallade? Sacred Sword just deletes it, leaving Slowbro as its most reliable check, until it clicks SD and hits it with Night Slash. ausma already spoke about Mega Gallade so I won't drag it on any longer.

Borderline
(mega)(mega)

Mega Starmie is yet just another addition to the power level of this tier, which is leaving defensive play in the dust while offering not much other than high speed and raw damage output. Water is a pretty spammable STAB option and it ends up just either OHKOing most offensive threats it goes up against, or it just spams Flip Turn to get those mons in range the next time it comes in. It won't OHKO smth like MMeta but it will 3HKO with Flip Turn and rolls willing, OHKO you the next time with Liquidation. Offensive checks include the rare Sucker Punch from a bad mega and Mega Mawile, Mega Greninja, which is high in usage, Jolteon and Mega Manectric, and scarfers like Hoopa-U and Krookodile from what I've seen and experienced. Defensively, Slowbro would've been sound if they weren't running Thunderbolt and Volcanion too since you block Water moves but still take a million from Tbolt. Hisuian Goodra resists your STABs + Tbolt but you're like the easiest mon to wear down ever and you always just Flip Turn.

Mega Barb is lowkey kinda cheap, retaining Tough Claws with 140atk + Shell Smash is just a bit much imo? Despite the below average defensive typing, Barb has enough defence to find setup opportunities and after it sets up, what's the counterplay again? Oh right, the Unaware Clef and Slowbro, who would've guessed? A lot of people still trying to make screens work and it's mainly because of this guy, because everyone knows the moment it sets up, it's probably going to claim a kill. No scarfer outruns it, and your priority options are down to Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch, MMeta struggles to slot Bullet Punch (you have so many options) and Starmie is also struggling to slot Jet too. It certainly can, but dropping Flip Turn or Thunderbolt is lowkey trolling. There's also Water Shuriken Greninja, if you're actually running that.

Outside of the mons, I've mentioned, everything is somewhat alright but I would hope to see something happen to some of these guys. I don't really want to play another day of just having clearly broken mons around when we can do something about them so it begs the question, who's gonna be handling tiering moving forward? I like this metagame and I want it to be good as it can be, and slow/non-aggressive tiering is going to leave players dissatisfied. No problem if say, Zygarde and Mega Gren get the boot today for example, but I would like to have a path/timeline of when to expect some changes.

 

[G-Luke]

I think the implication that Mega Scrafty might need a restricted version of Multiscale is very funny. As if, Multiscale might just be too much for the tier to handle. As for everything ausma said, I more or less agree with what is said. I think a lot of the customs needs to be scaled back, especially ones that don't even help it out (looking at you Hawlucha). Also, we need to axe the Uber Pokémon immediately, I am genuinely not understanding why we still have so many traditionally Uber level or at the very least OU++ Pokémon still running around in a metagame that is severely weaker than the metagame's they had to be banned from. They warp the metagame to the point where we being so so on evaluating things that we expected to be broken right off the bat, because we are too busy dealing with Ubers in our garden. I genuinely feel like Mega Diancie is in wallable crack, but who cares man Mega Metagross exists and is the perfect smack down machine. Mega Meta, Zygarde, and a Gallade nerf needs to be implemented immediately!

Now some unexpected developments...Mega Mawile is insane right now. Mega Mawile plays like it's classic Gen 6 Demon Lord SD sets. Your best bet defensively is like...Wisp Sableye. Offensively is somewhat good in Sucker Punch resists that can kill it, but hazards are easy to set and can be kept up if you play your cards well. So how much chip does a non Mach Punch Mega Lop for example need to drop to +2 Sucker?

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 151-178 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lopunny can't OHKO either. Crazy world.

For comments on the item releasing. I think Choice Scarf specifically is like, extremely important right now with how lopsided speed control is in the metagame right now. As more things get banned, novelties go away and things like various traditional set up sweepers (DDance Gyarados-M, Charizard-M-X, SD Scale Shot users), the need for reliable revenge killers is definitely needed. Choice Band and Specs are not as metagame glueworthy in my opinion, but outside of a few specific Pokémon I don't see their usage of Choice Band and or Specs to be potentially problematic. If you take a look at the attacking stats of most Pokemon in the tier, and then filter out Megas....most of the big bad scary Choice item Pokémon have a lot of problems with running these items, it feels like they have to "skillfully" run these items with many notable drawbacks.

Except these two -

Hoppa Unbound is pretty nuts as a wallbreaker, but a lot of existing threats make it feel like a necessity atm. I feel once the big Ubers + a few major threats like Mega Greninja, Mega Lopunny and Mega Diancie gets gone, Hoppa will rear it's ugly head. Right now though, it's the best Choice user in the metagame right now, featuring all of the items in question.

Greninja is also a sleeper threat, and I feel like will eventually be axed as most of the extreme broken mons disappear. This metagame feels like Gen 6 in power scale, and base Greninja is better than ever before, so once the metagame scales down I truly think even base Gren will become problematic as time goes on. I think these two guys will repeat the same cycles they did in Gen 6, at least until DLC drops and completely shakes up the meta (Gren maybe can come back probably).

So to me Choice items right now feel like a necessary evil. I don't think Heavy Duty Boots is necessary in the metagame right now though. I don't think the metagame is severely limited in hazard control and outside of oddball developments I see them as being a net negative. Boots feel nice when you need to check some extreme goobers running around, but I think by like mid November a Boots vote ought to be done, on whether or not we need it in the tier. I don't think the metagame needs any of the other items either still, even though I understand the feeling of wanting things like Light Clay and such (you don't want this right now).

All in all, we have most likely two and a half months of metagame development so I do hope this metagame gets the development it deserves to be a really fun tier.

I finally wanted to do fresh pitches for abilities for the shitty new megas, I decided to challenge myself by only using abilities that exist in game.

Mega Changes

Right off the bat. I think Without a custom effect Victreebel is cooked. No non Mega Sun Setters are amuck so Chlorophyll my preferred pick is not gonna work. Corrosion Toxic spam will be a calm lower tier pick for the eventual Legends Z-A: UU that drops in November.

- Sheer Force
I went there. Clefable-Mega's biggest problem is a) base Clefable is a fantastic glue Pokémon that has a bunch of tools that help it be a great defensive tool, which Mega Clef lacks some of, and b) ALOT of good megas exist, and they aren't stuck competing with their very viable base form. I had to think of a reasonable way to justify Clefable wanting to run a Mega Stone and using it. Enter Sheer Force. This puts Clefable way up on the map as a powerful offensive threat due to how powerful Sheer Force boosted Moonblast and all of the coverage moves in its set. It's pretty powerful and nukes alot of shit in the tier right now.

- Grassy Surge
Yes, I know you guys love Flower Veil on Meganium and as of right now, it can fairly be argued it is pretty solid. But most of Meganium's success comes from it being like, really great into Zygarde specifically. I fear when Zygarde dies in two days though Meganium will fall off. Now, I know the Triage team is in the rear screaming for it's return, but I really think Grassy Surge fixes a lot of the issues that Meganium has, while helping to support teams pretty well (free base Hawlucha?).

- Stamina
Yep I am on the Stamina bandwagon. Stamina just feels like a very unique way for Hawlucha to utilize a form of set up in a way that's very different from the faced paced now or never one and done style of regular Hawlucha. Stamina makes Bulk Up or even regular Swords Dance sets be very separate from its base form. Hawl already has solid bulk so it can pivot into many things to farm Defense boosts in order to either facilitate another sweep or do offensive pivot type shit. Honestly once the metagame settles I see Hawl being ok, but I am not feeling the Custom here so this should still be tough.

- Multiscale
Scrafty is weak to Fairies like no other. And it lacks Pursuit. So Mega Scrafty has to really justify why this should be your team's dedicated Dark. While it ultimately will probably never be great, Multiscale will make Scarfty be like, a really good set up sweeper. Scrafty can also do some funny shit as a fat bitch that can pivot into the most ridiculous wallbreakers in the tier and trade very comfortably with hella mons. I think it should be a great defensive pivot and/or lame game sweeper.

- Heatproof
Steelix-Mega deserves a good ability outside of Sand Force, so I think Heatproof does so in a way that helps carve out a real niche without outright eliminating it's counters. It can switch around and check hella mons better with these upgrades.

 

[ItsScaryCary]

soooo are we not gonna talk about mega chesnaughts abilitys discription just being "bulletproof + barbs" instead having and actually description

 

[miya_04]

I've got no problem with Mega Scrafty having a Fairy immunity, I think that's a cool idea and as you said there've been plenty of them before. However, I do think reflecting some of the damage back is a bit overkill. Maybe have it boost SpDef by 1 stage - it's similar to stuff like Storm Drain and Lightning Rod, and synergises well with Bulk Up sets.

Also, give Mega Skarmory Gale Wings, that gives it a valuable niche compared to the other Steel type megas

I would support something like this good idea : ) +1spdef might be crazy with bulk up tho so maybe make it +1atk, and that also works better with the whole 'feisty gangster attitude' aesthetic he has. But even just an immunity with no boost like levitate would still be good enough to be useful (I know levitate has other things like spike immunity but I meant it as in not having any other effect when you trigger the immunity).

 

[Runo]

I am genuinely not understanding why we still have so many traditionally Uber level or at the very least OU++ Pokémon still running around in a metagame that is severely weaker than the metagame's they had to be banned from.

The tier started Monday, it hasn't even been a full week. Yet 5 mons were already banned by Wednesday with more to come by the end of the week most likely. This is already light years faster than how a traditional OU would've acted. Some of these bans don't even have the "traditionally Uber" label either ala Mega Blastoise and Alakazam. It would not have been fair to give them zero benefit of the doubt because hindsight was used instead of actually confirming they were problematic for the tier. As for Mega Metagross and Zygarde (and some of the "so so" mons mons we are shaky about), they were not immediately considered broken on Monday or Tuesday. Only becoming an issue when other threats were removed so they could start filling the power vacuum to become threatening themselves. Is this not now the natural progression of a metagame works?

Hoppa Unbound is pretty nuts as a wallbreaker, but a lot of existing threats make it feel like a necessity atm. I feel once the big Ubers + a few major threats like Mega Greninja, Mega Lopunny and Mega Diancie gets gone, Hoppa will rear it's ugly head.

I'm rather confused on what existing threats warrant it needing to be in the metagame. Hardly any of these big threats are checked by Hoopa-U because of its and their speed tiers. To me this mon only exists to make balance teams insecure.

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

offtopicish beat but when i saw mega malamar through the trailers i was like 'oh they gonna give it a super high special attack stat because they're touching into its psychic nature!' and then i went what the fuck do you MEAN it's still a physical attacker what is it DOING with that high a special defense stat

 

[80DollarsIsCrazy]

Well

no, but IMO that would feel like some sort of fangame ability. The point is to predict the abilities for megas, not make something super strong and then be disappointed when the actual abilities come out and are weaker

I think i came up with a mediocre solution that... probably Gamefreak would make, and isn't too out of the ordinary, as there is a ability similar to it. and well it's not too dissappointing if we got different ability or if we keep the same ability


Victreebel-Mega:
Ability: Acidic
Ability Description: Poison-type attacks now deal Neutral Damage to Steel Types. This is just basically Scrappy but for Poison Types again Steel. Is it good? Not really compared to Scrappy damage wise as it's neutral, but if you want to buff it, you can also just make do Neutral Damage against Ground and Rock Types as well as Steel, but would probably be kind of a stretch to do that. Maybe just Steel and Ground. I would say make it super effective but since of what you said about not making people disappointed, this would be fine, as people won't be as disappointed if it got a different ability like Corrosion. I would combine with Corrosion, but people seem to be against combining abilities, so probably leave it at this.

Is this better than Corrosion? Not really, as I assume people would rather have the ability to put a DOT(Damage Over Time) to any Type over just doing damage to a certain type of Pokémon that had immunity or resistance to it. It is an option, though. And if you think it's weak, just do one of the things I said not to do(Give it also Corrosion, or make it hit Super Effective instead, or hit other types as well for neutral damage). It's an alternative that's not broken or really OP. And it's again probably something GameFreak wouldn't be oppose of doing as again: We have Scrappy as an ability, which is the same concept as this, just weaker. It makes it have somewhat of chance if it is facing against a Steel type, compared to just using Hidden Power Fire or Ground. Let me know your thoughts though. If it is criticism or telling me it's just straight up bad, I would still like to know. (note: I had just realized corrosion already did this....So I guess just give it also ground? or Rock?)

 

[80DollarsIsCrazy]

Well

I think i came up with a mediocre solution that... probably Gamefreak would make, and isn't too out of the ordinary, as there is a ability similar to it. and well it's not too dissappointing if we got different ability or if we keep the same ability


Victreebel-Mega:
Ability: Acidic
Ability Description: Poison-type attacks now deal Neutral Damage to Steel Types. This is just basically Scrappy but for Poison Types again Steel. Is it good? Not really compared to Scrappy damage wise as it's neutral, but if you want to buff it, you can also just make do Neutral Damage against Ground and Rock Types as well as Steel, but would probably be kind of a stretch to do that. Maybe just Steel and Ground. I would say make it super effective but since of what you said about not making people disappointed, this would be fine, as people won't be as disappointed if it got a different ability like Corrosion. I would combine with Corrosion, but people seem to be against combining abilities, so probably leave it at this.

Is this better than Corrosion? Not really, as I assume people would rather have the ability to put a DOT(Damage Over Time) to any Type over just doing damage to a certain type of Pokémon that had immunity or resistance to it. It is an option, though. And if you think it's weak, just do one of the things I said not to do(Give it also Corrosion, or make it hit Super Effective instead, or hit other types as well for neutral damage). It's an alternative that's not broken or really OP. And it's again probably something GameFreak wouldn't be oppose of doing as again: We have Scrappy as an ability, which is the same concept as this, just weaker. It makes it have somewhat of chance if it is facing against a Steel type, compared to just using Hidden Power Fire or Ground. Let me know your thoughts though.

Oh forgot i based this on the description of entry of the dex which honestly fits just as well as Corrosion, which we might not get.

 

[Kibo]

Very personal tierlist but i wanted to get it out, i think this meta still has to settle down a bit but it's HEAT... (some mons need to be reworked / nerfed tho, and some other banned maybe?) we are going in a great direction tho!

Also idk if it's still a problem, on the nat dex movesets, you could just ban pursuit, hidden power, Frustration and Return, i believe these moves are never coming back to Mainline games

 

[Magcargo]

I will say, a development I like about this meta is that we are seeing a lot of resist berries getting used. I've been personally loving Passho Berry Tyranitar to aid it in checking Greninja / Starmie and have seen a few others run Passho Berry on Hippowdon to do something similar. I've also seen a few Shuca Berry CC Aegislashes to handle Excadrill and think you could run something like Colbur berry for the greninja MU specifically. This kind of counterplay developing is pretty cool and shows how creative teambuilds are in handling big threats in such a limited format.

 

[Clas]

I don't think anyone has brought this up and I'm surprised at it too but can we get a patch notes list in the thread starter post? Preferably in a spoiler box so it doesn't clog up a chunk of the page but just there so people have references to go off of with such a fundamentally changing metagame

 

[Aides]

I've been playing the metagame for a few days now, and one thing has been really apparent to me. This metagame is not balanced... like at all.


It was a step in the right direction to ban traditional Ubers like Mega Alakazam, Mega Blastoise, and Mega Kangaskhan, but the fact that Mega Metagross and Zygarde didn't go with them is a little silly to me. Mega Metagross is the silliest one to me, as it's banned in SM OU, a tier with a significantly higher power level. Keep in mind that it's buffed in this format due to gaining stronger STABs in Heavy Slam and Psychic Fangs. Pair this with Thunder Punch to beat Skarmory and Slowbro, and Mega Metagross is impossible to wall. Zygarde is in basically the same position. It was banned in ORAS OU, a tier which I'd also argue has a lower power level than this one, when you ignore megas at least. Zygarde, unlike Mega Metagross, is at least technically possible to wall if you spam Unaware Clefable, Slowbro, and Gourgeist XL, but being restricted to such a small pool of answers is not healthy for the metagame whatsoever.


While Mega Gallade doesn't have the proven track record of being broken that Mega Metagross and Zygarde have, simple comparisons to Mega Metagross should make it clear how broken it is. Mega Gallade shares Mega Metagross' speed tier while being significantly stronger than it because of Sharpness. While Mega Metagross' bulk is what contributes to it being broken, Mega Gallade is still far from being frail, AND it has Swords Dance to make itself even stronger. While I disagree with having choice items and HBD by principle, Choice Scarf feels like the only reliable way to beat something with such a high speed tier, which is still unreliable since Gallade can just switch out.

I have way more Pokemon that I think are either currently problematic, or will become problematic later on, but these are the three that need to go as soon as possible. Mega Gallade should just get Inner Focus back, though. I feel like banning it would be sad given how it was never intended to have such a broken ability.

(mega)
This is the list of additional Pokemon that I think are currently problematic. The least controversial one seems to be Mega Starmie. I think the biggest thing that breaks it is how good of a mixed attacker it is. Flip Turn just lets it ignore potential answers, while Thunderbolt lets it beat Skarmory and Slowbro. Even if it's a little easier to wall, it'll still just pivot loop you until you die. It gets Recover and Rapid Spin to heal the hazard matchup too so like, good luck taking it out over time.


Mega Lopunny got Swords Dance, and now it just beats any team without a Slowbro. U-Turn and Scrappy buffs from SS NatDex help it a lot as well. It's broken for very similar reasons to Mega Starmie.

(mega)
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say both Greninja's are broken. Mega Greninja getting Technician seemed like a fine nerf, but boosted Flip Turns are genuinely so dumb and make it so much harder to play around. Normal Greninja can get Battle Bond boosts super easily from Nasty Plot. It forces switches super easily, so setting up Nasty Plot is incredibly easy. Unaware Clefable, Hisuian Goodra, and Mega Dragalge are all solid checks, but they are really awkward to fit in when Mega Metagross and Zygarde mandate so many physical walls to beat them. This doesn't even mention the set variety Greninja has with Protean sets either. Imagine tearing apart Clefable with STAB Gunk Shot. It's utterly disgusting.

(mega)
I remember a friend on Discord showing me a screenshot of Mega Delphox with Levitate and wondering how you switch into it. You kinda can't? Pursuit and Sucker Punch make it seem less broken, but all they really do is temper it while demanding very specific counterplay.

(mega)
Shell Smash is just super fishy and dumb, even more so on a mon with actual stats. I don't have much to say on it since I haven't seen it yet, but it sounds very broken at a glance.

(mega)
I think this is the least convincing one, but I think Feraligatr is utterly disgusting when it has boosted Scale Shots and Swords Dance. Spamming Aqua Jet with that attack stat sounds perfectly decent too.


The following is a list of Pokemon who I think might become broken in the future, but only after the prior Pokemon have action taken against them. This metagame has the potential to be really fun, but when the only powerful options are mega evolutions, it means that a lot of cleaning will have to be done in order for the metagame to be balanced. Active and consistent tiering is the best way to keep this metagame active in the long term.

Finally, I want to give my quick thoughts on the movepools and items. In terms of movepools, I think using NatDex movepools makes sense. LGPE has proven that no hazard removal can still make for a fun metagame, but having Spikes and Toxic Spikes on top of that would just be too much. I'm also not a fan of BDSP cutting so many movepools in half, so I like having more options. In terms of items, however, I just don't see the point of adding some items without adding the rest. It just feels very arbitrary to have choice items and HBD instead of all the other items.

Anyway, I hope this post doesn't come off too negatively. I think this metagame is really interesting and I want to see it shine.

 

[Som]

I think the implication that Mega Scrafty might need a restricted version of Multiscale is very funny. As if, Multiscale might just be too much for the tier to handle.

- Multiscale
Scrafty is weak to Fairies like no other. And it lacks Pursuit. So Mega Scrafty has to really justify why this should be your team's dedicated Dark. While it ultimately will probably never be great, Multiscale will make Scarfty be like, a really good set up sweeper. Scrafty can also do some funny shit as a fat bitch that can pivot into the most ridiculous wallbreakers in the tier and trade very comfortably with hella mons. I think it should be a great defensive pivot and/or lame game sweeper.

It's not restricted, it's just different. Namely, it is better against Faeries because full investment STAB'd Moonblast might still drop the dude from full with just Multiscale. 4x > 1x vs 4x /2 is pretty significant to me at least.

I'm certainly not against it getting Multiscale either way. I just figured it would be a LOT more impactful than on Dragonite outside of the Fairy matchup since Scrafty's got STAB Drain Punch. D-Nite has to sacrifice dmg to Roost. Scrafty just chunks you and heals to full in the same motion. I can, actually, see that being pretty obnoxious is all.

 

[TheCosmicTruth]

I'm rather confused on what existing threats warrant it needing to be in the metagame. Hardly any of these big threats are checked by Hoopa-U because of its and their speed tiers. To me this mon only exists to make balance teams insecure.

I've been using Scarf Hoopa and it's a pretty good revenge-killer at least. It outspeeds the unboosted metagame and can carry funny moves to kill certain threats

252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 286-338 (100.3 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade-Mega: 190-224 (68.5 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 296-350 (98.3 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I would agree that it needs to at least be suspected though, since most of this scarf Hoopa's victims so far have been balance teams

 

[SwordIsBored]

Well

I think i came up with a mediocre solution that... probably Gamefreak would make, and isn't too out of the ordinary, as there is a ability similar to it. and well it's not too dissappointing if we got different ability or if we keep the same ability


Victreebel-Mega:
Ability: Acidic
Ability Description: Poison-type attacks now deal Neutral Damage to Steel Types. This is just basically Scrappy but for Poison Types again Steel. Is it good? Not really compared to Scrappy damage wise as it's neutral, but if you want to buff it, you can also just make do Neutral Damage against Ground and Rock Types as well as Steel, but would probably be kind of a stretch to do that. Maybe just Steel and Ground. I would say make it super effective but since of what you said about not making people disappointed, this would be fine, as people won't be as disappointed if it got a different ability like Corrosion. I would combine with Corrosion, but people seem to be against combining abilities, so probably leave it at this.

Is this better than Corrosion? Not really, as I assume people would rather have the ability to put a DOT(Damage Over Time) to any Type over just doing damage to a certain type of Pokémon that had immunity or resistance to it. It is an option, though. And if you think it's weak, just do one of the things I said not to do(Give it also Corrosion, or make it hit Super Effective instead, or hit other types as well for neutral damage). It's an alternative that's not broken or really OP. And it's again probably something GameFreak wouldn't be oppose of doing as again: We have Scrappy as an ability, which is the same concept as this, just weaker. It makes it have somewhat of chance if it is facing against a Steel type, compared to just using Hidden Power Fire or Ground. Let me know your thoughts though. If it is criticism or telling me it's just straight up bad, I would still like to know. (note: I had just realized corrosion already did this....So I guess just give it also ground? or Rock?)

Victreebel-Mega has a buffed Corrosion that lets it hit Steel-types already.

 

[quziel]

Played a fair bit of the meta.

Zygarde, Greninja, Mega-Metagross are all mons without reasonable counterplay.

Greninja has 3 separate sets, all of which have varying counterplay, and a wrong guess will lose you the game very quickly. Regular Greninja already speed-creeps most of the meta, beating the glut of megas at 120 base speed, bond can and will end the game in an instant, and while the sets do all reveal themselves relatively quickly, guessing bond and losing most of your Clef's HP to a Gunk Shot can and will happen. Mega Greninja is potentially the most overwhelming of the three major sets, as Flip Turn AoA removes a ton of would-be counterplay to the standard set, and still finds room on its set to snipe whatever checks you'd have.

Zygarde itself is almost brainless, as you just need to read Slowbro once with Toxic to effectively put it on a timer with Tarrows for the rest of the game. The second you do its forced to either bleed valuable momentum by clicking Slack to offset the chip, or just port immediately after coming in every time to minimize HP loss. There are other checks, notably the rising Gourgeist-Super, but all your counterplay barring Mega-Meganium is vulnerable to the same cycles that are extremely easy for BO teams to set up using Zygarde+Slowbro.

Mega-Metagross just has too many moves. Hslam/Tpunch/Ice Punch hits every single viable mon in the meta barring Aegi for either a 2HKO, or comes extremely close, and the last slot can literally be anything. I've been going Pursuit to effectively remove Slowking-Galar from the meta, but you can run PuP, Rock Polish (+ Adamant), Bullet Punch, Psychic Fangs for Mega-Chesnaught, Knock Off for Aegi, or basically anything you want. Even Grass-Knot is viable to snipe Slowbro extra hard.

A recent team I was using; got to 1495 before I lost a game due to misreading a Gren set.
https://pokepast.es/f42c3b495ead7d4b

+++++++++++++++

In terms of fun sets I've been using. CB Gourgeist is an extremely effective lure, letting you remove Clef from the game 30% of the time, and is a good mon in its own right. Being effectively the only viable Tarrows resist that doesn't require a mega slot and doesn't bleed momentum is really cool. Poltergeist is also an extremely clickable move, and Power Whip is weirdly good as a lot of folks are skipping out almost entirely on grass resists. Trick is also a free click once folks realize the set, as they'll immediately hard Skarm, which then unironically loses to you cause Sneak + SR will outlast Roost.

Mixnite is very good. Draco + Iron Tail + Fire Blast is simply not a combination teams can deal with, and while you need LO to actually secure KOs, you still contribute a lot to a team given a workable speed tier and Espeed in case you need to remove a low-HP gren. That said it requires a bit too good of hazard control to be great on any team not running MDia.

Speaking of Mdiancie, its excellent. Acting like a slightly weaker version of MMeta, you simply have the coverage and power to KO basically everything in the format. Slowking-Glar is the closest to a proper check, but like even then if you read it enough times with either Diamond Storm or Earth Power its really not a reliable answer. That said, you're also weak to literally every mon faster than you, and you don't really block hazards that reliably.

+++++++++++

In terms of ability changes, pls give Dragonite an accuracy steroid of some kind, be it moving Drizzle from Drampa to it (and giving Drampa something like Fur Coat or stamina), No Guard, or just something on that end.