Um I thought the idea was to mainly focus on megas, but that this was the thread to speulate about gen 6 OU in general which includes fairies. Now whether Celebi becomes Fairy might not be appropriate, but the impact of Fairies seems ok since the Orange Island speculation thread doesn't allow competitive discussion and the news on Megas has been slow lately.
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Um I thought the idea was to mainly focus on megas, but that this was the thread to speulate about gen 6 OU in general which includes fairies. Now whether Celebi becomes Fairy might not be appropriate, but the impact of Fairies seems ok since the Orange Island speculation thread doesn't allow competitive discussion and the news on Megas has been slow lately.
This is the purpose of this thread. The topic has shifted from Mega Pokemon to an open discussion of Gen VI. I changed the title to reflect that. Thanks for pointing that out magic123. The thread has shifted to open discussion from MegaPokemon discussion.
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f693/mechanic-changes-155907/
So check this out. It states that Megaevolutions are supposed to raise pokemon to "legendary levels." In other words, we can expect these pokemon to end up with BST of at least 580, possibly even 600.
Not sure what this means for Garchomp and Blaziken, who will have either stat shuffling or a minimal gain, but this is HUGE for Mawile and Ampharos.
So check this out. It states that Megaevolutions are supposed to raise pokemon to "legendary levels." In other words, we can expect these pokemon to end up with BST of at least 580, possibly even 600.
Not sure what this means for Garchomp and Blaziken, who will have either stat shuffling or a minimal gain, but this is HUGE for Mawile and Ampharos.
Holly shit, did anyone else see this:
So, if these news are indeed confirmed by Game Freak in a Japanese interview as the source says, Ghosts are officially immume to Shadow Tag now. Gengar and Jellicent are going to appreciate not being prone to Gothitelle anymore. Gengar you son of a bitch, just how good will you get?
So, if these news are indeed confirmed by Game Freak in a Japanese interview as the source says, Ghosts are officially immume to Shadow Tag now. Gengar and Jellicent are going to appreciate not being prone to Gothitelle anymore. Gengar you son of a bitch, just how good will you get?
We already knew this, basically. It was revealed on the official type chart: http://www.pokemonxy.com/_ui/img/_en/art/Type-Matchup_chart_EN.pdf
Okay, so it says "moves", but extrapolating that out to abilities too makes sense. I don't see why they would be immune just to moves and not abilities as well.
Yeah, I think we've known about that since the CoroCoro leak. It might have been discussed a little earlier on, but not much.
So, it seems Ghosts are getting quite a nice boost to their already good utility this Gen. In addition to spin-blocking, now they are no longer trappable by things like Gothitelle (letting them really abuse their spin blocking abilities), and they can now hit through Steels with their STAB attacks. And unlike Dark, which can also hit through Steel now, they didn't get nerfed by the Fairy type. On the contrary, Gengar in particular can actually use that Poison STAB it has now (as I believe was pointed out earlier). So yeah, Ghosts are looking pretty good in 6th gen.
I wonder if that trapping thing will affect Pursuit at all... It's probably a stretch, but it's something to consider.
I wouldn't think so. The mechanic change is described as "Ghost-type Pokémon are not affected by moves that prevent Pokémon from fleeing from battle." The mechanics of Shadow Tag, Arena Trap, and Mean Look/Block/whatever actively prevents you from switching into another Pokemon in a battle. Pursuit you still reserve the option to switch, albeit with nasty consequences of taking extra damage. It isn't preventing a switch, it is just giving damage as a result of switching.
''11. Some moves, with focus on special ones, have had their power and accuracy revamped.''
90% accuracy focus miss, hydro miss and fire miss pls. These moves are so fucking necessary for a lot of pokemons and having such pathetic accuracies really hurt they use. Improving the power of stuff like psyshock, dragon claw, shadow ball (maybe not due to the huge ghost type buff but meh), x scissor, flash cannon among others would also be really cool and would make these moves more usable, making it a huge boon for mons that dont have stronger alternatives or their stronger alterantives have crippling side effects.
90% accuracy focus miss, hydro miss and fire miss pls. These moves are so fucking necessary for a lot of pokemons and having such pathetic accuracies really hurt they use. Improving the power of stuff like psyshock, dragon claw, shadow ball (maybe not due to the huge ghost type buff but meh), x scissor, flash cannon among others would also be really cool and would make these moves more usable, making it a huge boon for mons that dont have stronger alternatives or their stronger alterantives have crippling side effects.
added to OP; thanks. Gengar is gonna be amazing
I'm not sure how I feel about this. While it would be nice to not have a focus blast miss lose you the game, that's part of what Pokemon is, although skill based, there is luck. Also, this would encourage offensive mons to not have any (or a lesser) downside to firing off powerful moves such as Focus Blast. Just something to consider, this kind of lead back to the Accuracy vs Power thread.
I am all for Focus Blast, Thunder, and Blizzard being bumped up to 80%, but man would the universal increase of accuracy on high base power moves be more of a power creep than anything else. With accuracy upgrades, they would become the premeir moves of the metagame. We really underestimate the impact that the increased base powers of moves have on Pokemon. Choosing Hydro Pump, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, etc. over their base 95 counterparts is adding a 26% power increase. That would basically being giving some of the special attackers of the tier that rely on more accurate moves like Thundurus-T for T-bolt, Kube for Ice Beam, and Keldeo for Surf (certain CM sets / choiced sets) a nice type plate multiplier. It would also makes late game sweeps much harder to handle because an opponent could more reliably use a high power move multiple times confidently.
Its just a though honestly, i am all for separate upgrades for each move. However its pretty much unanimous that focus blast and stone edge desperatly need a buff.
Keep in mind that revamped doesn't necessarily imply a boost. Fire Blast, for example, is already quite powerful and has an acceptable 85 accuracy. By comparison, Muddy Water has the same accuracy and is only at 95 power. Keep in mind that suiting these moves for the doubles meta is probably GF's ultimate goal so that may be a consideration in determining what gets boosted and nerfed.
Muddy water can drop the opponent accuracy and hits both of them in doubles. Thats why it has low accuracy. Exactly like stone edge high crt hit rate giving it a 80% accuracy. If these moves secondary effects were nerfed or removed, they could have their accuracy boosted without causing balance issues. This is one of the kinds of revamps i expect.
I wouldn't say they desperately need a buff; things use those moves and they are considered good (although unreliable). What i was saying was that a boost would be nice, but you have to keep in mind the sacrifice of accuracy for power and vice versa, leading to what ThePillsburyDoughBoy said. If you thought the power creep was bad (just an example; let's try to not start the whole "Gen V is too offensive thing"), imagine it with moves that are viable now with poor accuracy. I for one like that fact that you have to sacrifice power for accuracy, but I get some people might think they at least need a buff to like 80% or something.
When I read "legendary", I thought of a BST of 680 to be honest. This would explain Garchomp getting a bump in stats but...WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS DO FOR MEWTWO?! Will Arceus bow at the sight of such a being?
Here's the quote: "9. The power-up of Mega-Evolved Pokemon is meant to elevate them to the class of legendary Pokémon, hence the restriction of only one Pokémon being allowed to hold a Mega Stone during battles."
Clearly this is the arrival of a new god entirely. All will bow before its incredibly over the top stats that might make Kyurem-W/B look pathetic.
Jokes aside, clearly there is going to be some major stat buffs coming from Mega evolution, which does raise the question as to what will happen to those who already posses titanic Base Stats. My guess is that for those who are already close to or on par with Legendary stats, such as Garchomp or Mewtwo, we'll probably see some stat reduction in order to boost another stat more. Garchomp is already confirmed to do this, trading Speed for more Attack and Sp. Attack. It seems likely that the Mewtwo evolutions will do something similar to Kyurem-W/B, with Mewtwo X focusing on Attack and sacrificing Sp. Attack, and Mewtwo Y focusing on Sp. Attack at the cost of physical power. The other pokemon that get Mega Evolutions can just get pure boosts without needing to lose any stats in the process. That's my theory, anyway.
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet: is it possible that GF might go ahead and give "major" stat boosts to Megas to make up for the fact that the Mega-stone takes up the item slot?
If we look at Garchomp for instance: with a life orb, regular Garchomp's physical attack stat reaches an equivalent of 394 * 1.3 = 512. Unless Mega-Garchomp has a similar attack stat, there doesn't seem to be much benefit to use it over Life-Orbed-Garchomp, especially since Mega-Garchomp gets a speed drop.
In order for Mega-Garchomp to reach anywhere near 512 attack, it'll need at least base 180 attack, a +50 from its current 130 attack. In this case, a 680 base stat total for Mega-Garchomp would be highly plausible. Something like a -20 in speed in exchange for +50 in both attack and special attack seems like it would be make up for the lack of Life Orb.
Otherwise, keeping Mega-Garchomp's BST near 600 doesn't seem like it would be enough incentive to use it over regular Garchomp.
Just my two cents. Any thoughts?
If we look at Garchomp for instance: with a life orb, regular Garchomp's physical attack stat reaches an equivalent of 394 * 1.3 = 512. Unless Mega-Garchomp has a similar attack stat, there doesn't seem to be much benefit to use it over Life-Orbed-Garchomp, especially since Mega-Garchomp gets a speed drop.
In order for Mega-Garchomp to reach anywhere near 512 attack, it'll need at least base 180 attack, a +50 from its current 130 attack. In this case, a 680 base stat total for Mega-Garchomp would be highly plausible. Something like a -20 in speed in exchange for +50 in both attack and special attack seems like it would be make up for the lack of Life Orb.
Otherwise, keeping Mega-Garchomp's BST near 600 doesn't seem like it would be enough incentive to use it over regular Garchomp.
Just my two cents. Any thoughts?
If garchomp gets a 680 base stat bump with at least ~90 speed stat, much like Kyumrem-B, it'll mean his attack and spA are really high (obviously amirite?). And it's going to be a ridiculous pokemon in and out of the sand. I really hope they don't go through with the 680 BST buff (possibly) for Mega Garchomp.
But unlike Kyurem-B, Mega-Garchomp won't be able to use a Life Orb or Choice Band to further increase its attacking power, which was my main point. I was trying to say how we can't really rule out 680 BSTs for certain Megas like Mega-Garchomp because the Mega might need those high base stats to make up for the lack of an item. Otherwise, these Megas wouldn't seem all too "Mega" if they can't perform as well as their regular forms (in Garchomp's case, it'd be attacking). Just a thought.
Edit: Of course, I realized that I forgot to take Sand Force into account, but my point still stands.
For anyone who is getting his hopes up about focus blast/insert special attack here no longer having terrible accuracy, keep this in mind
A. Gamefreak is balancing things competitively according to all other interviews, and for Gamefreak competitively means VGC, not singles
B. In doubles moves like muddy water and other special spread moves are really really good
so in short expect a nerf not a buff
A. Gamefreak is balancing things competitively according to all other interviews, and for Gamefreak competitively means VGC, not singles
B. In doubles moves like muddy water and other special spread moves are really really good
so in short expect a nerf not a buff
A Life-Orbed Jolly Garchomp with +2 max Atk does 44.03 - 51.98% to physical defensive Skarmory with Outrage.
(Assuming Mega-Garchomp has a similar Atk stat to Kyurem-B): An Adamant Kyurem-B with +2 max Atk does 45.56 - 53.82% to the same Skarmory with Outrage.
The damage rolls are very close, so I don't see your point sorry. A Life-Orbed Garchomp already does nearly the same damage as our theoretical Mega-Garchomp will. Only the first will have a higher speed stat in exchange for -10% recoil, which may be more desired.
I feel that people may be overestimating the power of high BSTs without any item benefits. A lot of the current ubers are scary because their high stats were backed up by a Life Orb or Choice Band/Specs. But if Megas turn out to just be item-less high BST Pokemon, they may not be as scary as we're hyping them up to be.
I just feel that a lot of people are jumping the gun too soon and crying "overpowered" before we see how the lack of items will really affect the Megas' performance. Sorry for not being clear.
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