-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Low Ubers
- Thread starter Trust
- Start date
There's also this thing called pursuit that manaphy doesn't worry too much about . . .
Your own signature said:
And I thought Celebi was OU already, and it isn't even THAT used (on Shoddy).
Hahahahahah, ten people voted Wobbuffet. *tears*
I like the tiers the way they are, even if Ttar is omnipresent, and annoying. Latis without Soul Dew being allowed in standard would be saying something like Gentle Skarmory should be let into UU. Sure, it might suck, but that just opens up the doors for too many threats in lower tiers.
That being said, I vote Arceus.
I like the tiers the way they are, even if Ttar is omnipresent, and annoying. Latis without Soul Dew being allowed in standard would be saying something like Gentle Skarmory should be let into UU. Sure, it might suck, but that just opens up the doors for too many threats in lower tiers.
That being said, I vote Arceus.
0/0 Ho Oh takes special hits about as well as 0/0 Magnezone does AFTER the stealth rocks cut. Definitely Uber-level Sp. Def going on there.
Physical Defense... :-( Worse than Weavile after Stealth Rocks (not counting Weavile's cut. Only counting Ho-Oh's cut)
That said, Ho-Oh probably gets the cut as currently the worst Ubers. Sacred Fire is a friggen amazing move however.
Ho-oh also takes twice as much damage from Surf, Psychic, and Ice Beam as Magnezone, and 4x as much from Thunderbolt and Air Slash. Its advantages are Aura Sphere / Focus Blast and Flamethrower. Resistances are huge.
Wobbuffet. It may have no counters, but it doesn't pack the power, movepool or stats the other ubers do. It can kill a Pokemon easily, but all ubers can do that, that's why they are. In ubers, a lot of stuff can still rape it if it switches in. It might be too strong for OU, but it sucks in ubers imo.
Obviously, Wynaut is worse, but I thought it was considered BL?
Obviously, Wynaut is worse, but I thought it was considered BL?
Soul Dewless Latios would still be a huge ass threat to the metagame. It's faster and more powerful than SpecsMence, but without the horrible 4x Ice Weak or the SR weak, not to mention you might be able to make use of it's other STAB.
On topic Wob. is a pretty crappy uber. In fact it's the only Uber I've never seen anyone use in Ubers play.
On topic Wob. is a pretty crappy uber. In fact it's the only Uber I've never seen anyone use in Ubers play.
It doesn't matter how fucked up a Pokemon is in Ubers, what matters is what it does in OU. While Mew might not get any use in Ubers, in OU, it has Baton Pass+100 Base Speed, and access to a movepool bigger than Gengar, in fact, the biggest in the game apart from Smeargle. As mentioned above, it can also BP everything save Accuracy, which isn't something you'd BP in the first place. PHazers will take a heavy hit from it too, as long as it isn't running Psychic(which it shouldn't when it risks being PHazed). Grass Knot for Pert and Hippo, TBolt for SKarmory. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to PHaze it. Mew is bad news for the OU metagame, it'll make BP Teams even more rampant.
Well, Deoxys Normal is obviously the worst uber out there since it's the only one that's actually completely outclassed by something in the exact same tier as it.
Heh, just one question though. This may sound stupid, but was Darkrai actually tested at all in OU before it was banned? It seems really frail and dies really easily to Close Combat which is extremely common. Was Dark Void and Bad Dreams the only reason it was banned? They aren't THAT broken with sleep clause. Well, I guess in 2v2 they are, but I believe that it still has some counters in OU that haven't been established yet, because I don't remember it being tested although I may be wrong. Heh, well maybe the reason it was banned was that it can do everything Gengar can, but better, but I'm not sure about that.
Heh, just one question though. This may sound stupid, but was Darkrai actually tested at all in OU before it was banned? It seems really frail and dies really easily to Close Combat which is extremely common. Was Dark Void and Bad Dreams the only reason it was banned? They aren't THAT broken with sleep clause. Well, I guess in 2v2 they are, but I believe that it still has some counters in OU that haven't been established yet, because I don't remember it being tested although I may be wrong. Heh, well maybe the reason it was banned was that it can do everything Gengar can, but better, but I'm not sure about that.
Most of the special sweepers that regularly beat Blissey (when played right) are banned from OU, including Darkrai, Manaphy and SafeguardLati@s (leaving stuff like SpecsCario, SpecsGar, 101SubCMJirachi and SafeguardTogekiss). Bring them down and you might start seeing Mantines (in other words, bad idea).
I voted Deoxys ('balanced' - its more like a Deoxys-A that might not get OHKOed by absolutely every move everywhere) and I do think it would be alright to send into OU, due to its lack of a useful STAB move and the fact that everyone runs physical walls absolutely everywhere. I see teams with five physical walls and Blissey constantly - I'm sure Deoxys would end up Paralysed and taking residual damage while dealing out pitiful damage to a Gliscor most of the time (else playing a similar role to RKSChomp). I guess though, the whole '150 base atk, spa and spd' thing is sort of intimidating. An alternative perception would find it to be an Infernape without the nice STABs but with better base stats to kick ass with.
As for Wobbuffet, I am sure he will be the next to be tested for OU which will be interesting.
I voted Deoxys ('balanced' - its more like a Deoxys-A that might not get OHKOed by absolutely every move everywhere) and I do think it would be alright to send into OU, due to its lack of a useful STAB move and the fact that everyone runs physical walls absolutely everywhere. I see teams with five physical walls and Blissey constantly - I'm sure Deoxys would end up Paralysed and taking residual damage while dealing out pitiful damage to a Gliscor most of the time (else playing a similar role to RKSChomp). I guess though, the whole '150 base atk, spa and spd' thing is sort of intimidating. An alternative perception would find it to be an Infernape without the nice STABs but with better base stats to kick ass with.
As for Wobbuffet, I am sure he will be the next to be tested for OU which will be interesting.
Yeah, as everyone said, the balanced Deoxys. Having 30 more defense in both defense stats won't do you any good if your base Defenses are both 50.
On Manaphy, IMO its UBER. Not only does it go great with Kyogre, but when its raining, it can't be statused. Switch in on a Darkrai then abuse Tail Glow. Rest when needed wakinh up at the end of the turn. Surf or Ice Beam/Grass Knot to sweep.
On Manaphy, IMO its UBER. Not only does it go great with Kyogre, but when its raining, it can't be statused. Switch in on a Darkrai then abuse Tail Glow. Rest when needed wakinh up at the end of the turn. Surf or Ice Beam/Grass Knot to sweep.
But that's in Ubers. You'd still need to setup for it with in OU which would be hardly different from a leaf guard poke with NP/CM/SD in Sunny Day.
Except Leaf Guard doesn't cure status. Only Manaphy's hydration cures status. Leaf Guard acts like "safeguard", it prevents status, but it doesn't cure status already afflicted.
Ok, but something like Manaphy was at least tested. I don't believe that Darkrai got ANY testing whatsoever, he was just thrown into the uber metagame right away, which seems really unfair seeing as not all of his sets beat Blissey, and if he wanted to, he'd have to run a super-offensive set which would really limit his options. Plus, he may do a lot of moves better than Gengar, but Darkrai has a hard time switching in easily since he doesn't have 3 immunities. That, and if he misses with Dark Void, he's really screwed since he can't take a huge amount of hits when he rarely has any EVs invested in defenses.
I'm just saying the guy should've gotten some testing instead of being chucked into the uber metagame when the metagame was still all paper. He's an OK uber, but he just dies so easily compared to the other ones and doesn't have the sheer killing power of Deoxys-A to compensate for that.
You'd be surprised. Manaphy with absolute NO defenses/HP only takes 60% from a 252/+atk T-tar Stone Edge. Gyarados +atk/252 with its Earthquake does 40% tops. Even if it doesn't invest in defense having a minimum of 341HP is a major help.
Its a combination of that rather impressive defense mentioned above and its offense. When people started actually doing calcs they realised that Tail Glow Manaphy was unstoppable.
The counters were literally countable on one hand Raikou, Jolteon, Ludicolo and Petaya'd Draco Meteor Kingdra. Also Timid Zapdos in the event that its actually a Modest Manaphy. Furthermore Raikou and Jolteon had no chance of switching in.
At the same time giving a 00ber one of the most accurate sleep moves and automatic passive damage isn't exactly most peoples idea of fair. Heck just look at the 00bers, Darkrai is the only one to get a sleep move period and still retains all the stats and movepool of a 00ber.