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Mamoswine
- Thread starter Sayonara
- Start date
In the Salamence thread somebody mentioned that "you didn't have to worry about Mamo since he's not even in the top 40"
I have a feeling that's about to change.
I do have a question for people though since I was considering building my first rain team, would Mamoswine be a good fit? And if so, can anyone suggest any sets or EV spreads that would be good?
I wanted at least one guy on my team to be able to revenge the Therian forms and dragons as well as be able to break through Heatran and Amoonbro. (It's hilarious how little damage Heatran does to Thick Fat Mamo in the rain)
Mamoswine was the first to pop into mind, any suggestions?
I do not think it would be that good in a rain team...
I've even tested it once and I must tell, Ditto did better in revenge killing dragons + kami's...
Mamoswine would be a great fit. In fact, one of the most common teams I've seen is Politoed/Starmie/Thundurus-T/Tornadus-T/Mamoswine/Filler (usually Ferrothorn or Jirachi). Mamoswine is great against opposing weather starters so it's a good Pokemon to have for winning the weather war. Plus, the Electric immunity it provides is more than welcome.
I think it wont be that great against most weather starters...
252 Atk Tyranitar (+Atk) Superpower vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 97,79% - 115,47%
87,5% chance to OHKO
Mamo wont like being hit by that... and mostly being OHKO'ed.
He also wont enjoy being hit by a rain boosted scald (if burnded mamo become useless), surf or hydropump.
252 SpAtk Politoed (+SpAtk) Scald vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Mamoswine: 139,23% - 164,09% (in the rain)
Guaranteed OHKO
0 SpAtk Politoed Scald vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Mamoswine: 98,62% - 116,85%
93,75% chance to OHKO (in the rain)
It also wont like to be burned by Ninetales WoW (if it carries, which most do), Solarbeam, also a move most Ninetales carrie will OHKO Mamo... Fire Blast do OHKO as well even with Thick Fat!
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ninetales SolarBeam vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Mamoswine: 103,31% - 122,1%
Guaranteed OHKO
252 SpAtk Life Orb Ninetales Fire Blast vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Thick Fat Mamoswine: 116,85% - 137,57% (in the sun)
Guaranteed OHKO
So as I still said, I think it wont be a good weather check unless it carries Fokus Sash or Scarf.
Mamoswine outspeeds all Tyranitar except Scarf variants. A lot of Ninetales don't run enough speed to outrun Jolly Mamoswine either.
Of course Mamoswine doesn't beat Politoed, but when I said opposing weather starters, I meant Ninetales and Tyranitar as I was talking about using Mamoswine on a Rain team.
Besides that, Ninetales or Tyranitar cannot safely switch into Mamoswine because they both fear Earthquake. If you can get Drizzle active and get Mamoswine on the field, your opponent will have a hard time safely bringing in their weather starter.
Mamoswine easily nabs the 2hko on politoed with earthquake though. You aren't going to switch in directly on politoed but it has no business switching in on you. As a Weser starter, it's easily worn down by constant switches anyway. Choice scarf politoed is good for avoiding death this way though.
Really? Specially defensive variants aren't common and the rest run enough speed to outpace gliscor.
Really? Specially defensive variants aren't common and the rest run enough speed to outpace gliscor.
Jup I know Mamo outspeeds T-Tar, but I still calced this cuz I still se T-Tar quiet often on a ballon or being Scarfed most of the times.
Also when I face Ninetals most sets are offensive (easily outspeeding Mamo and OHKO).
Politoed just annihilates Mamo with any water move.
And if Mamo possibly become more often - the offensive weather startes will become more often too... think about it :)
That's true, Ninetales is a risky match up. A lot of the ones I've encountered seem to use the Sunny Day set on site, which doesn't run enough speed to outrun Jolly Mamoswine.
Bribery said: ... Mamoswine is great against opposing weather starters so it's a good Pokemon to have for winning the weather war. Plus, the Electric immunity it provides is more than welcome.
So I did not missunderstood something - Im sorry Pocket ^^
Also Fhoel asked if it would be a good fit to a weather team - I answered: "NO, cuz Ditto does better as revenger".
Sorry, I should have worded it a bit better. I meant Mamoswine is a good check to opposing weather starters since they both fear STAB Earthquake and Hippowdon certainly won't like taking an Icicle Crash. No weather starter can safely switch into Mamoswine either.
It's also great for revenge killing Chlorophyll sweepers commonly found on Sun teams. Mamoswine on Rain teams has other benefits too. Besides revenge killing, it's also a good way of eliminating SDef Jirachi and Heatran that Tornadus-T commonly lures in. Simply U-turn out into Mamoswine.
It's also great for revenge killing Chlorophyll sweepers commonly found on Sun teams. Mamoswine on Rain teams has other benefits too. Besides revenge killing, it's also a good way of eliminating SDef Jirachi and Heatran that Tornadus-T commonly lures in. Simply U-turn out into Mamoswine.
It can be kind of a "check" with priority - I agree, and most weather starters wont like switching into Mamo's attacks, thats true as well but Mamo wont like switching in either. In my opinion Mamo is only a nice check to Hippowdon (which isn't seen very often cuz T-tar does better).
I sometimes like to run my Mamoswine with a Focus Sash on and use Endeavor/Ice Shard. Works well if someone isn't expecting it.
tbh mamo is faster than tyranitar and most ninetales and will ko both very easily before they get a chance to hit back, so he can deal with weather starters especially the first turn, see a lead tyranitar?, go mamoswine, makes it easy to get up Sr too.
Awwww:D (Mamoswine) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Substitute
i use this mamoswine set on a rain team!! Its actually very good!! It kills the kamis and dragons with ice shard!! Of course they would want to switch thats when you sub up...
i run 180 speed to outspeed standard 16 ev tentacruel and all base 100's with no evs in speed...
i used to run more hp to make 101 subs but i just didnt do much to politoed only 37%~ thats why its adamnt and max attack now..
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Substitute
i use this mamoswine set on a rain team!! Its actually very good!! It kills the kamis and dragons with ice shard!! Of course they would want to switch thats when you sub up...
i run 180 speed to outspeed standard 16 ev tentacruel and all base 100's with no evs in speed...
i used to run more hp to make 101 subs but i just didnt do much to politoed only 37%~ thats why its adamnt and max attack now..
You are correct. That is the set I use. I already explained the purpose of the Endeavor/Ice Shard/Focus slash combination so I don't need to run through that again. Earthquake is his powerful STAB move and stone edge is for for coverage on flying types who won't get hurt as bad from Ice Shard and it just is a good move to duel wield with earthquake.
Thanks for answering my quesetion lol.
Anyways I'll be sure to try that out. It'd be nice to Ice Shard, and then Take the super power if it survives with the Sub.
Nice set!
Mamoswine on a sun team...I've never seen that before but I could definitely see where it would come in handy. I'm going to have to give this a shot.
Might as well post my Stealth Rock set...
Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock
Mamoswine can keep its sash intact fairly easy as long as hazards are kept off the field and also because it is immune to both weather damage from hail and sand.
Sash can guarentee you get rocks up, as well as ensure you live a hit to revenge things you can't ice shard.
Even without a boosting item, after SR you can OHKO Mence and Dnite (Dnite would need MS broken anyways). And those you don't OHKO without a bit of prior damage like thundurus and tornadus you can take one hit guarenteed with sash (Even with LO Tornadus-t is still only 2hkoed unless it has taken both SR and a round of recoil damage).
Now the fun part of having a sash is the ability to absolutely cripple some of your teams counters by using endeavor + ice shard combo (or hail/sand). It does require a fair bit of prediction, but you can checkmate stuff like scarf toed if they hit you down to sash and you used endeavor. Heck even rotom-w can be trolled by the end-shard combo if they use hydro pump instead of will-o-wisp.
This set really depends on your team however. Lack of Icicle Crash comes back a few times to annoy you, and the lack of power on Ice Shard needs to be planned for.
Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Endeavor
- Stealth Rock
Mamoswine can keep its sash intact fairly easy as long as hazards are kept off the field and also because it is immune to both weather damage from hail and sand.
Sash can guarentee you get rocks up, as well as ensure you live a hit to revenge things you can't ice shard.
Even without a boosting item, after SR you can OHKO Mence and Dnite (Dnite would need MS broken anyways). And those you don't OHKO without a bit of prior damage like thundurus and tornadus you can take one hit guarenteed with sash (Even with LO Tornadus-t is still only 2hkoed unless it has taken both SR and a round of recoil damage).
Now the fun part of having a sash is the ability to absolutely cripple some of your teams counters by using endeavor + ice shard combo (or hail/sand). It does require a fair bit of prediction, but you can checkmate stuff like scarf toed if they hit you down to sash and you used endeavor. Heck even rotom-w can be trolled by the end-shard combo if they use hydro pump instead of will-o-wisp.
This set really depends on your team however. Lack of Icicle Crash comes back a few times to annoy you, and the lack of power on Ice Shard needs to be planned for.
That's why he's used best as a lead Pokemon IMO
Which is why I suggested Sash Mamoswine last year because it was like the Metagross/Heatran of Gen 4. You'd easily set Stealth Rock on the field, but also you were able to Endeavor anything Earthquake/Ice Shard could not cover and while there's not many who resist it, you lacked the power to ensure you could get the best out of Mamoswine's coverage. So, Endeavor picked off any loose ends in a battle where you may have trouble dealing with a particular wall of some sort.
I'm liking Jolly + Life Orb, however, Icicle Crash/Spear has me torn in two because while I do enjoy breaking Substitutes, at the same time I realise that the likes of Thundurus-t will outspeed me before I get the chance to attack anyway; hence why I think Ice Shard is still the sets most utilized move. Earthquake is traditionally powerful and thankfully those who resist it are commonly dealt with by Ice-type attacks.
I'm liking Jolly + Life Orb, however, Icicle Crash/Spear has me torn in two because while I do enjoy breaking Substitutes, at the same time I realise that the likes of Thundurus-t will outspeed me before I get the chance to attack anyway; hence why I think Ice Shard is still the sets most utilized move. Earthquake is traditionally powerful and thankfully those who resist it are commonly dealt with by Ice-type attacks.
If you're facing the genies/Outraging dragons, then you need Ice Shard for priority, no doubt. But when it comes to Icicle Spear or Crash, I reckon Icicle Spear is the one to use.
In terms of simple power, three hits gives you 75BP, not too far behind Crash, and of course you can get 100BP or 125BP from it too. Variable power and the loss of flinch isn't such a bad trade off for the pluses of Spear. 100% accuracy is a major, major plus too.
But breaking Subs is the real killer. The ability to switch into a Subbing Dragonite, Gliscor or even Breloom (if you're brave), and then KO it straight through, is invaluable. I've been in situations where I've tried to status a Dragonite, but been blocked by its Sub, switched to Mamo as it Roosted - then KO'd through Sub AND Multiscale (with 4-5 hits of course). Five hits and some luck, and you can 'OHKO' Donphan through Sturdy, preventing rocks or a spin.
Ice Shard and Icicle Spear makes Mamo a kind of 'utility attacker'.