Manaphy uber?

[lilyhollow]

That's ludicrous.

Tell me how you actually plan on killing Hydration-abusing Manaphy. How is that not scarier than Celebi was last gen?

 

[Winner]

Lapras can probably counter Manaphy. Good Hp, Water Absorb, and Thunder(bolt) to hit it back. Lapras isn't necessarily an awsome tank, but it can hold its own versus Manaphy.

Lapras:
Leftovers
(SP. Def +, Attack -)
252 HP/72 Special Attack/184 Special Defense

Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Surf/Sleep Talk
Curse/Rest

 

[Synre]

The trick with using Lapras(and to a lesser extent Vaporeon although it's definitely playable anyway) to counter Manaphy is that you're using an overspecialized counter - the Water Absorbers as a whole aren't really top tier Pokemon, it's not necessarily true that you would 'need' them to counter Manaphy which dulls my point a bit, but if you need one of like three currently UU fully evolved Pokemon to counter something you're overcentralizing the metagame, which is a pretty clear sign of 'uber'.

That said I don't think it's really necessary to run a Water Absorber to stop Manaphy, but keep in mind that all of those pokemon are weak to Energy Ball(which obviously Manaphy will quite possibly not be carrying, especially if it has rain dance/rest/tail glow/surf for some reason).

 

[Dragontamer]

Is not Toxicroak + Dry Skin in OU? Or maybe BL? It probably would serve well as a Manaphy counter. Immune to surf, resists energy ball. From there... I dunno where to take it :-p But its a start.

 

[MaxGoof]

Uber? Psh.

Dry Skin Parasect will pwn Tail Glow/Surf/Rest/Rain Dance Manaphy. =P

 

[Ghost [old]]

Exactly how much testing will be given until it is deemed standard or uber chaos?I plan on hosting tournaments on a different site and want the fairest rules possible.

 

[randomplayerx]

I for one would like to see the discussion behind banning things. I found the banning stuff thread in the analyses sub forum very interesting. I know I am too new to the game to have any input, but don't bash people for discussing it when they can't even see the thread/conversations where the top players discuss things.

 

[Edux]

Lapras can probably counter Manaphy. Good Hp, Water Absorb, and Thunder(bolt) to hit it back. Lapras isn't necessarily an awsome tank, but it can hold its own versus Manaphy.

Lapras:
Leftovers
(SP. Def +, Attack -)
252 HP/72 Special Attack/184 Special Defense

Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Surf/Sleep Talk
Curse/Rest

Lapras takes a huge 120 Damage from Grass Knot, two times because of super effectiveness = 240 Base Power, sorry for Lapras but it can only counter the non Grass Knot versions.

 

[Break]

Have the majority of you even used Manaphy on Wi-Fi? If you haven't then what place do you have speaking about it besides speculation? "Insert clever metaphor here". If you have then totally disregard the last couple sentences.

From my experience using Manaphy, he is ridiculously good, whether it be a hydration/rain dance version, a tail glow version, or a hybrid of the two.

 

[Easton]

Uber? Psh.

Dry Skin Parasect will pwn Tail Glow/Surf/Rest/Rain Dance Manaphy. =P

Most kinds of these Manaphy carry Ice Beam instead of Tail Glow, and Parasect can't do anything in return to Manaphy except Energy Ball, which doesn't do much damage. Neither does Grass Knot. Please explain how it counters Manaphy

 

[Stallion]

I believe that it should be tested before it should be banned. The argument that Tail Glow Manaphy isnt reason enough to be banned because only Ludicolo/Blissey can counter it. By that logic, then SpecsMence should be banned because nothing can switch in safely to all its moves barring Bliss/Empoleon/Cresselia focusing on Sp. D.

As for Hydration Manaphy, that is a bit more difficult but not invincible by any means. You do realise that if it carries Rain Dance/Rest then it will have only two moves (1 if it carries Tail Glow). These are normally a combination of Surf/Ice Beam/Grass Knot (or Energy Ball). With just Surf, IB or Surf and Ice Beam, basically every water pokemon resists it. If it is IB/(Grass Move), then every Steel Type resists it. And finally, if it is Surf/(Grass Move), any Dragon or Grass type will wall it with ease. The thing is, whilst Rain Dance Manaphy might be a bitch to kill, it suffers from moveslot syndrome, and so it can inevitably sit there and do nothing. Gyarados can own any non Tail Glow version with Taunt + Dragon Dance. Metagross and Garchomp can also set up on it, which can spell doom for your team. Having said that, there are probably some arguments that are in favour of it being uber, but when it comes down to it, I believe that it at least deserves a chance in OU before being banished to Ubers.

 

[Hipmonlee]

As for the comparison to Garchomp, Garchomp has more glaring weaknesses. Sure, Outrage kicks some ass, but they can't just fire it off willy-nilly like Manaphy can Surfing people (or Garchomp can DClaw itself) or it's liable to get locked in against a counter pokemon and instantly die unless you're successfully late-game sweeping.

Garchomp also learns Dragon Claw and Earthquake, both with stab, which it can fire off all it likes, and is resisted by only 2 pokemon. Also Garchomp has 6/5x manaphies attack stat. Against a Mew with equal defences Dragon Claw will out power Manaphys surf, and EQ will outpower its Hydropump.

And people are more prepared to defend physical than special threats, since there are many more physical threats in the metagame.

This is a bit specious.. I mean, if we allowed better special attackers people would probably be more prepared to counter them..

Garchomp doesn't shrug off status nearly as easily.

That is only if you are using Rain Dance, which takes a lot more effort.. I mean, if you baton pass a swords dance and a speed boost to Garchomp it will be quite hard to deal with too! Plus Garchomp shrugs off thunderwaves a lot better than Manaphy..

Garchomp only wins in the "goes 100% against the 299 Crowd instead of 50/50 like Manaphy" department.

Garchomp is also a lot easier to switch in, with more valuable resists.. Rock and Electric with Poison as opposed to Ice with Water and Steel.. Rock and Ice are probably about equal. Electric is also very useful especially since Garchomp can hit it SE with stab (which manaphy cant do to anything it resits except fire, which Garchomp does also), and it is an immunity. The most conspicuous water attacker is Gyarados, who is probably better countered by Garchomp than Manaphy. Then Steel and Poison both suck. Also Garchomps trait is an asshole, it has a wider range of attacking moves available to it, and it is really ugly..

But you know what? Direct comparisons are dumb anyway, since Garchomp and Manaphy don't have much in commin aside hurting crap. This isn't a Garchomp discussion.

Yeah that is kinda true, but, like.. Hurting crap is what they both do.. If you are gonna ban something it should be clear that it needs to be banned over something else.

Rain dance set I could see being a problem and pushing it over the edge.. But honestly, I think ban neither or ban both..

Have a nice day.

 

[Gmax]

OK, Rainresting in really cheap, and I can see a huge rise in Rain Dance teams. Man, Manaphy for Sp.Atking Relicanth to Head Smash stuff and Toxicroak in for the healing. Scary.. I vote for Manaphy to be declared Uber. Recovering max HP 16 times is just not right.... especially with 100/100/100 defenses. And you know, if Tail Glow was the thing that made Manaphy Uber, Azelf would have been banned first.

 

[Luck]

This is a bit specious.. I mean, if we allowed better special attackers people would probably be more prepared to counter them..

I agree with this totally.This pretty much main reason why i think they are going to ban manaphy most scary special sweepers get banned and alot of special attackers that can attack it and take a hit are banned.

For record my opinion is to unban all 600 pokes except deoxy F.Which makes a uber poke anypoke above 600 stats except for three exceptions Slaking, Deoxy-F,and King Regi.

 

[Shinryu]

Though I think Manaphy is low enough to be OU, it still isn't exactly easy to get a good, decent one...

 

[Lupo Aro]

For record my opinion is to unban all 600 pokes except deoxy F.Which makes a uber poke anypoke above 600 stats except for three exceptions Slaking, Deoxy-F,and King Regi.

I'm sure an OU metagame with Darkrai, Deoxys-L, and Deoxys would be fun, eh?

 

[Renalia]

Though I think Manaphy is low enough to be OU, it still isn't exactly easy to get a good, decent one...

Competitor will render this a moot point. You can't judge a pokemon on how hard it is to get a good one, or else all the One-shot legendaries in Ubers wouldn't be uber.

 

[Zacharian]

If the Manaphy goes with Surf or Ice Beam as it's only attacking move, it's preety much screwed against Poliwrath. Water Absorb + Ice Resistance will mean Poliwrath wqill laugh at it, then Brick Break. However, I'd go with Uber Manaphy anyways, considering not many people have Poliwrath...

 

[Eriorguez]

I never saw Manaphy as Uber, due to 100 in all (good, but not great), predictable movepool AND 4-moveslot syndrome. Really sad.

BTW, TC: GameFAQs' Battling board is full of Salamence users who say Registeel is overpowered. Nuff said.

 

[Firestorm]

Have the majority of you even used Manaphy on Wi-Fi? If you haven't then what place do you have speaking about it besides speculation? "Insert clever metaphor here". If you have then totally disregard the last couple sentences.

From my experience using Manaphy, he is ridiculously good, whether it be a hydration/rain dance version, a tail glow version, or a hybrid of the two.

Well, to be fair, a lot of the people making the decisions over in the Analyses forum haven't either. Some haven't even played online much.

 

[Akayfortyseven]

From wifi, both using and facing it, I think that its no bigger threat then any other well played top-tier pokemon. It still has weaknesses, and either set will have something to exploit.

 

[Mr.E]

The jumpman blissey is 2khoed only if the opponent rolls max damage twice around so imo a blissey could wall the opposing manaphy.

A max def max sdef blissey is 3/4khoed by a tail glow (max modest) manaphy and an aromatherapy jumpman blissey (without ice beam)is 3khoed by opposing manaphy so really a t-waved manaphy dies to a blissey
but thats without 101 hp subs.

101 spells doom of blissey that aren't psych up or calm mind variants or ones that lack t-bolt.

Now you have to consider if someone on their team rain dances you have to take the precaution right at that moment. If manaphy is the one rain dancing and tail glowing then thats a 2 turn setup possibly allowing a revenge kill. If its sub tail glow then I guess it would be those Aero-dugtrio
revenge kills or something reminiscent of them.

Or you could do a blissey-dug sort of thing
a max def max hp manaphy has to have 3 tail glows to stop the Jump non ice beam cleric blissey

Manaphy comes in
Manaphy subs
Blissey Seismic tosses
Tail Glow #1
Blissey Seismic Tosses
Tail Glow #2 (Sub Breaks)
If manaphy wants to hit blissey its a 3hit so it has to go for the 2nd sub or the 3rd tail glow. Either way its a duggy kill and the next time manaphy comes in its going to die.




I personally feel the best way to deal with manaphy is to hit it. Or send in Gyar and DD up

This is a post for the ages.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

As for Hydration Manaphy, that is a bit more difficult but not invincible by any means. You do realise that if it carries Rain Dance/Rest then it will have only two moves (1 if it carries Tail Glow). These are normally a combination of Surf/Ice Beam/Grass Knot (or Energy Ball). With just Surf, IB or Surf and Ice Beam, basically every water pokemon resists it. If it is IB/(Grass Move), then every Steel Type resists it. And finally, if it is Surf/(Grass Move), any Dragon or Grass type will wall it with ease. The thing is, whilst Rain Dance Manaphy might be a bitch to kill, it suffers from moveslot syndrome, and so it can inevitably sit there and do nothing. Gyarados can own any non Tail Glow version with Taunt + Dragon Dance. Metagross and Garchomp can also set up on it, which can spell doom for your team. Having said that, there are probably some arguments that are in favour of it being uber, but when it comes down to it, I believe that it at least deserves a chance in OU before being banished to Ubers.

I'm going to side with Mysterious Stallion here about Hydration Manaphy until I see Manaphy in action for myself. It's amazing how many people are overhyping it in this thread right after chaos posts about it (not saying he doesn't have a point but the number of sheep in this thread disgusts me).

 

[Familiar Trainer]

OK, Rainresting in really cheap, and I can see a huge rise in Rain Dance teams. Man, Manaphy for Sp.Atking Relicanth to Head Smash stuff and Toxicroak in for the healing. Scary.. I vote for Manaphy to be declared Uber. Recovering max HP 16 times is just not right.... especially with 100/100/100 defenses. And you know, if Tail Glow was the thing that made Manaphy Uber, Azelf would have been banned first.

Relicanth can have ether Swift Swim or Rock Head as a trait, but sadly not both. It's going to kill itself or be killed.

And while Manaphy can fully recover in the rain, it won't be killing anything if it has to set up the Rain itself. If the Manaphy is using a Rain Dance team, they deserve to win. Trust me, those things are harder then they look to make without Kyogre's Drizzle by your side.

But I agree on the Tail Glow point. If your scared of all-out attacking Tail Glow Manaphy, I can only hope you never see a Nasty Plotting Azelf in your competitive battling career.

Garchomp/Manaphy are also quite similar, when you think about it. Both have nice defenses, and both are supported by the weather. Both can double their main attacking stat, AND BOTH WERE THOUGHT TO BE GAME-BREAKING. Only difference is Manaphy can heal (sometimes), while Garchomp has better resistances/movepool.

 

[floppybeef82]

...Does no one realize that Dewgong also has Hydration? Dewgong only has 475 total stats compared to Manaphy's 600, but it seems like most of the talk of making Manaphy uber is for Rest/Hydration alone