Mediocre-Mons (VENOMOTH BANNED!)

This set is pretty nice in Mediocre-Mons especially if you get to set up safely ( Sorry if someone has posted this alredy):

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Lonely
Unburden
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Sp. Atk
-Belly Drum
-Play Rough
-Return
-Flamethrower

This set can almost sweep the meta if it gets a sucessful setup. It can belly drum and play rough pokemon without getting outsped. The Steel types can be countered using flamethrower too.

Good Partners: Venomoth Quiver Dance Baton Pass helps the flamethrowers hit hard especially if the opponents team is mostly steel type. Combusken: More Baton Passing With Focus Energy. Quagsire: Resists its weaknesses

Another Slurpuff Set:

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Modest
Unburden
252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Dazzling Gleam
-Energy Ball
-Flamethrower
-Psychic

As a special attacker Slurpuff has huge coverage and can deal with anything if used properly. Baton Pass Venomoth is even more useful in this set, as it makes sure Slurpuff will hit harder.

Watch out for: Quagsire( Partner and Counter) and Hazekrow
 

EV

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1) Kingdra is ridiculous right now. Sniper+Focus Energy in particular stomps on everything. I don't know what can take a hit and then KO in the next turn. Nothing I presume.

2) Use Sap Sipper Girafarig to check Xatu. Immune to Shadow Ball and Grass Knot, resists Psychic, can tank Heat Wave and OHKO back with Life Orb Shadow Ball. Only weak to Dark and Bug, so unless Xatu starts packing Dark Pulse/Sucker Punch/U-turn...

3) Use offensive Murkrow. Brave Bird murders (lol crow joke) Venomoth. Sucker Punch does the same to Xatu. Insomnia blocks Sleep Powder. Can't take +1 anything from Veno though and must watch out for Dazzling Gleam predict from Xatu.

  • 90 Speed, 85 Attack, Flash Fire for Weather Ball Weepinbell, Charmeleon, other Sun shenanigans
  • Regenerator Slowpoke w/ Eviolite of course
  • Download, good coverage, but terrible Speed
  • Decent mixed offense, good abilities
  • 90 Attack w/ Speed Boost but it is very frail!
 
So we've all figured out there's plenty of great setup mons... but there's always an answer to setup moves in the form of Priority Encore!


Volbeat (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Encore
- Thunder Wave

I haven't seen any Volbeat yet on the ladder (in my few battles lol), so I'll put the set I'm using in here. Basically, if you see your opponent send out a setup mon (be it a shell smasher, a quiver dancer, a belly drummer, whatever), switch to Volbeat and lock them into it with your amazing priority encore. This allows you to get a free Tail Glow off as they switch, and you can Baton Pass (with priority!) next turn. Thunder Wave proves useful if there's a fast threat to your team you need slowed down. I'm currently using specially defensive Volbeat so it can tank stuff from Slurpuff easier if it happens to come in on an attack
vs. specially defensive Volbeat
0 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Volbeat: 100-118 (30 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Volbeat: 128-152 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


vs. physically defensive Volbeat
0 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Volbeat: 142-168 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Slurpuff Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Volbeat: 186-220 (55.8 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


you won't be able to Tail Glow+Baton Pass if you switch in and are 2HKO'd
but you can opt to run physical defense if you so choose

try it out if you hate setup sweepers / like passing tail glow
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mediocremons-137144554

I tried my hand at mediocremons, playing 3 or 4 matches using an all out mixed weather team. One thing I can conclude is that Herdier and Charmeleon are absolute monsters. Charmeleon single-handedly destroys kingdra-less teams, whereas herdier destroys teams without ghosts, which die to charmeleon anyways. Basically the replay is a herdier tearing apart a team by spamming frustration. But overall, even though the team has no synergy, it's still really fun to use.
 
It's a bit gimmicky, but give a Klefki some Safety Goggles and it becomes a more effective supporter in this metagame. I think the "key" in the item's effectiveness is its obscurity, since most battlers I've faced tend to take their time on the turn after they see their Sleep Powder or Spore completely fail without explanation.

Anyways, what it can do for Klefki specifically is better harass most Grass- and Quiver Dancing Bug-types unless they run HP Fire or Ground, thanks to Klefki's great Steel-Fairy typing. In the meantime, Klefki can do it's usual shenanigans: attack them with Play Rough, cripple them with T-Wave or Toxic, set up some Spikes, etc. The Goggles also can prevent a Spore-wielding Smeargle from setting up too many hazards or too many boosts.

Klefki can use Switcheroo when the Goggles are no longer needed. They're effectively dead weight in most situations anyway, plus Klefki's Prankster ability makes Switcheroo an attractive option for taking away things like Leftovers, Eviolite, and Light Ball.
 
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Okay, here's something interesting I just thought of here...

Clamperl @ Deep Sea Tooth
Modest
Rattled
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 Sp. Def
-Shell Smash
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power [Grass]

Modest 252 Speed investment hits 163 - so 326 after Shell Smash +2, two points higher than Jolly 252 Basculin. With a boost from Deep Sea Tooth and Shell Smash, obviously this thing hits like a truck. Probably very open to revenge kills though, which is why it should probably be saved for the late-game. Thoughts?
The problem I find is that Clampearl is still slightly slow.
 

Dogfish44

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I've been experimenting with Lickitung with something resembling success. It's niche, but fun if you can get the ball rolling.

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Careful / Oblivious
252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 SPD
Curse / Rest / Sleep Talk / [Body Slam | Frustration]

Large Special Bulk means that Lickitung can tank stuff like +2 Venomoth relatively easily, and can often (~70%) withstand 2 Boombursts from Modest Specs Chatot. You can lower the bulk, if you wish to have a stronger ATK (I personally find it usable, but your mileage will probably vary). Last slot is dependant on you - If you have status being spread already then Frustration is stronger, but Body Slam can help buy you free actions further down the line.

Has issues with Ghosts, Steels, and the very rare Rock type - easier if you can get rid of them first. Also has problems with Quagsire. Oblivious makes it Taunt-Immune at least. Definitely worth experimenting with at least.
 

EV

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I've been experimenting with Lickitung with something resembling success. It's niche, but fun if you can get the ball rolling.

Lickitung @ Eviolite
Careful / Oblivious
252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 SPD
Curse / Rest / Sleep Talk / [Body Slam | Frustration]

Large Special Bulk means that Lickitung can tank stuff like +2 Venomoth relatively easily, and can often (~70%) withstand 2 Boombursts from Modest Specs Chatot. You can lower the bulk, if you wish to have a stronger ATK (I personally find it usable, but your mileage will probably vary). Last slot is dependant on you - If you have status being spread already then Frustration is stronger, but Body Slam can help buy you free actions further down the line.

Has issues with Ghosts, Steels, and the very rare Rock type - easier if you can get rid of them first. Also has problems with Quagsire. Oblivious makes it Taunt-Immune at least. Definitely worth experimenting with at least.
I ran a support set with same spread but Wish, Toxic, Body Slam, and Dragon Tail to mild success. Cloud Nine is kind of nice too for putting the temporary breaks on Vulpix and Kingdra.
 

duck

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I'm currently using Stantler

Delibird's friend (Stantler) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Jump Kick
- Bite

Pretty fast, nice offense. With a choice band Stantler will 2hko most of the things in this meta. Bite is its only option to hit ghost type, but with band and attack investiment it does a pretty good damage...and hey..Stantler is awesome.
 

wishes

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Solrock @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Will-O-Wisp
- Grass Knot
Solrock is laughed at; mocked, even. However, in Mediocre-mons, it finds a niche. It has actually surprisingly high stats – by Mediocre-mons-wise. With 95 Attack, 85 Defense, and 70 Speed, it isn't too shabby. It's actually tied with Kingdra for the highest Attack stat in the entire tier. Stealth Rock is vital, and really is effective with Vivillon being a prominent threat. Stone Edge is Solrock's STAB move and allows it to take on Vivillon's attempting to put it to sleep. Will-O-Wisp is to spread burns and cripple Kingdra attempting to set up, along with Mawile. Grass Knot is to take on Quagsire, 2HKO'ing all variants of it. Although Will-O-Wisp does cripple it enough anywho. Safety Goggles is an odd choice, to say the least, but they're surprisingly not bad! Vivillon attempt to set up on it by using Sleep Powder, only to find a nasty surprise. If you really need a counter to Vivillon, run Lunatone (lol), but if you want an all-around great check, try out Solrock!
 
id like to say, BAN VIVILON! but really, vivillon is really good in ou ( and id know i use it and im not super low ladder) and i heard clefable was banned FORGET THAT STEAMING PILE OF CRAP! VIVILLON IS COMPLETLY BROKEN. Sorry i just never used vivilon when i started because i thought it would be banned, im mad that i didnt get overpowered brokeness at the start
 
What about Poliwrath? 90+95+90 Defenses are amazing in this meta, and it also has Bulk Up, and 95 attack for a more bulky sweeper type of route.
 

EV

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What attack should i put on venomoth, bugbuzz, psychic, or sludgebomb? I currently have quiverdance/sleep powder/baton pass.
I'd say STAB Bug Buzz since it doesn't have any immunities and I'm assuming you have Tinted Lens. Sludge Bomb is only good until a Steel-type shows up and Psychic is un-STABed.
 

Snaquaza

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After a lot of complaints and requests, I've decided to Suspect Test Kingdra. Please test this Pokemon and give your opinion.

Kingdra is usually seen on offensive teams using its CritDra set to tear apart anything slower, so it decimates Stall and Defense teams usually. However it can surprise offensive teams with Dragon Dance sets and Rain Dance sets with great coverage. It also has great bulk to set up on.

Things to consider:
~Sets of Kingdra and how they work
~Any counter of Kingdra
~Ways to beat counters
~On what teams does it work
~How well does it do its job.

After a few days to a week, I'll select the people who made the best posts to form a Council. The amount of people who can join is not definite yet, but they'll vote on whether to ban Kingdra or not. It will be banned if "BAN" receives two-third of the votes or more. This is to prevent random stuff leaving a relatively small tier.
 
Kingdra is definitely ban-worthy IMO. It is super-easy for it to set up a Focus Energy, Rain Dance or Dragon Dance thanks to its great 75/95/95 bulk and having only two weaknesses which are somewhat uncommon attacking types. CritDra is almost impossible to wall thanks to Water/Dragon's great coverage and the sheer power from Kingdra's moves, that 95 base Sp. Attack, and Sniper. Ferroseed is literally the only Pokemon in Mediocremons not 2HKOed by Kingdra's STABs alone, and even it's not safe thanks to a lack of reliable recovery and Kingdra's ability to carry HP Fire.
Rain Dance Kingdra is great against offense since most faster Pokemon in the metagame are too frail to take a Dragon Pulse or rain-boosted Hydro Pump well. Priority is not usually that much of an issue thanks to Kingdra's bulk, though it is one of the few ways to take it down. Fletchinder, however, is a solid revenge killer, as it 2HKOes with Acrobatics along with Mightyena with Sucker Punch. However, there is still no reliable way to take Kingdra down every time since there are few Pokemon with strong Fairy or Dragon attacks that are faster, especially under rain. Scarfed Dragons like Gabite can revenge kill the Focus Energy set, but fail to outspeed Dragon Dance and Swift Swim. Kingdra also creates 50/50s before it even does anything, meaning that if you mispredict its set, then you will likely lose your check, especially so for CritDra.
Rain is very common on the ladder now and Kingdra is super-centralizing. It is best that it is banned. (You can still have fun afterwards with Seadra guys! :P)
 
Belly Drum Slurpuff beats unboosted Kingdra one-on-one, but it has trouble switching in safely. The Focus Energy set flat out loses if Slurpuff switches in to the Focus Energy. Calcs:
252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 246-290 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - best-case scenario for Slurpuff. 75% chance to OHKO after either 1 layer of Spikes or Stealth Rock, guaranteed if there are two hazards. Of course, this is without boosts. When Slurpuff takes the hit, Unburden makes it outspeed non-SS Kingdra.
252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kingdra: 174-206 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO - worst-case scenario (an EV spread that will never be used), 2HKO's anyway.
252+ Atk Sniper Kingdra Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff on a critical hit: 297-351 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO - You have to be pretty unlucky for this to happen.
252+ Atk Kingdra Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 132-156 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO - This even allows a BD.
252+ Atk Kingdra Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff in Rain: 198-234 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- 12.5% chance to prevent a Belly Drum


I'll post some calcs for other Kingdra sets later.
 

Martin

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oh god Huge Power Medicham... kmn...

Also, ik it wont be used, but Furret now has a good speed stat.
I had to cause avy
 

Dogfish44

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Banlist:
  • Standard Clauses
  • Pure Power
  • Huge Power
  • Mega's that have Stats of 100 or more are banned
  • Clefable
 

wishes

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I would suggest banning Kingdra immediately. It has way too high stats practically everywhere and can easily set either Focus Energy, Rain Dance, or Dragon Dance and sweep the opposing team. It's wayyyy too overcentralizing and deserves to be instantly banned, imo.
 
if you think quagsire is overpower your right but i have a anti-quag-9000, grovyle! Heres a set, white herb, unburden, leaf storm, giga drain, hp fire, dragon breath. You storm quag then if he lives giga drain quag, hes dead. Hp fire and dragon breath for coverage
 
I would support a Kingdra Ban. I've been playing some matches on alts, and have to say that it is extremely overcentralizing. It either forces you to run Slurpluff or random Hidden Powers to take it down.

Ban Kingdra
 

Dogfish44

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I'm inclined to wait for the people actually selecting if Kingdra is banned or not to be chosen before the posts here get boldspammed. Call me crazy though.

I've generally found Kingdra to be mangeable to some degree - Sableye can taunt it, and I've seen some odd survivals. However, it is fairly overwhelming to be against, since it's fairly tricky to counter both the Sniper abuse set and the DD Set.
 

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