Mega-Salamence: considering a quick ban (Don't ask for the thread to be closed!)

[heritage]

Alright, this'll be a really short post but:

Do you know how bulky Ferrothorn is and how annoying it is if you're trying to kill it with a Physical hit? Well Salamence is worse than that.
I just want to say that even when un-invested, Salamence's defenses are the best out of ANY sweeper, and it actually has more defense than some of the physical walls in OU.
This thing can run any set efficiently. It's got an awesome support move pool with things like Wish and Defog, as well has having reliable recovery and a way to remove status. This thing does Wish passing just as good as Sylveon, since it can get rid of hazards, unlike Sylveon.

There isn't a single set that Salamence can't work with. It's so over centralizing, that, honestly, whenever I see it in team preview, I just quit because I know how annoying it will be.

Any arguments against quick banning it are null. Seriously, there is no point arguing it.
Quick ban. Please.

 

[Expert_Occultist]

You know... all these teams coming up saying they can 'handle' Megamence, I have to say, would they probably also be able to handle Base Form Rayquaza? Seems an awful lot like it.

Hardly. Base rayquaza has extremespeed which would do crazy damage to gren and sceptile among other things and allow it to sweep past talonflame and thundurus. One of mence's downfalls is its lack of priority (this downfall shared with many other sweepers). Rayquaza doesn't have that problem. So ya, a team that can handle mence's bulk may not be able to handle ray's priority

 

[Imperator Romanum]

so I'm AGAINTS banning it. Yes, it's very powerful and all that jazz. But in reality, when you're higher up on the ladder, you've learnt to be prepared. There are a few checks to his monster, Porygon2 and Slowbro are the ones I'm using and they have no problem beating his monster UNLESS you let it get to +2, which isn't possible for it to do againts MEGA SLOWBRO or PORYGON2. Porygon2 to a lesser extent. Mega Slowbro can clean OHKO it with investment with an Ice beam, Porygon2 does roughly 70% and Salamence fail to 2HKO either of them. Aslong as you play it SMART you're able to predict ahead and actually deal with this monster, and Mega Slowbro beats Gothitelle 1v1 so it's not trapped.

It's very powerful, but it's not completely, utterly gamebreaking. It's not better than Megamom, who wasn't even revenge killed.

You keep bringing up it's defence, but the trick is to not attack it on the physical side -.-

Here are some calcs

Againts Mega Salamence:

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 272-320 (69.2 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO QUAD EFFECTIVE

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 136-160 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO SUPER EFFECTIVE

Porygon2 is perfectly capable of beating Salamence, if Salamence uses Double-edge recoil will make it a 2HKO regardless of roosting on the second turn


0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 324-384 (82.4 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO QUAD EFFECTIVE

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO SUPER EFFECTIVE

Tricky but not something a SMART player can work around. CM on the predicted roost and Salamence will be unable to kill you before you kill him, +1 OHKO's preventing set up. At worst you're sitting at a comfortable +1 SP.atk and 1+ SP. def and at 45%

Againts Porygon2 or Mega Slowbro

-1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 64-76 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO MMMM delicious

-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 60-71 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

252+ SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO YUMMY, May I have another?

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 104-123 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO "ITS SO BROKEN, IT 2HKOS EVERYTHING" This is if it's Dragon dances on the turn you come in, you're perfectly capable of dealing with it since you trace intimidate.

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 81-96 (20.5 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 96-113 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO

120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO

120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 74-88 (18.7 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 121-143 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- 55.4% chance to 3HKO

+1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-154 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

Be smart about it, It's a massive threat but not Ubers worthy.

 

[TheTraininator]

so I'm AGAINTS banning it. Yes, it's very powerful and all that jazz. But in reality, when you're higher up on the ladder, you've learnt to be prepared. There are a few checks to his monster, Porygon2 and Slowbro are the ones I'm using and they have no problem beating his monster UNLESS you let it get to +2, which isn't possible for it to do againts MEGA SLOWBRO or PORYGON2. Porygon2 to a lesser extent. Mega Slowbro can clean OHKO it with investment with an Ice beam, Porygon2 does roughly 70% and Salamence fail to 2HKO either of them. Aslong as you play it SMART you're able to predict ahead and actually deal with this monster, and Mega Slowbro beats Gothitelle 1v1 so it's not trapped.

It's very powerful, but it's not completely, utterly gamebreaking. It's not better than Megamom, who wasn't even revenge killed.

You keep bringing up it's defence, but the trick is to not attack it on the physical side -.-

Here are some calcs

Againts Mega Salamence:

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 272-320 (69.2 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO QUAD EFFECTIVE

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 136-160 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO SUPER EFFECTIVE

Porygon2 is perfectly capable of beating Salamence, if Salamence uses Double-edge recoil will make it a 2HKO regardless of roosting on the second turn


0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 324-384 (82.4 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO QUAD EFFECTIVE

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO SUPER EFFECTIVE

Tricky but not something a SMART player can work around. CM on the predicted roost and Salamence will be unable to kill you before you kill him, +1 OHKO's preventing set up. At worst you're sitting at a comfortable +1 SP.atk and 1+ SP. def and at 45%

Againts Porygon2 or Mega Slowbro

-1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 64-76 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO MMMM delicious

-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 60-71 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

252+ SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO YUMMY, May I have another?

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 104-123 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO "ITS SO BROKEN, IT 2HKOS EVERYTHING" This is if it's Dragon dances on the turn you come in, you're perfectly capable of dealing with it since you trace intimidate.

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 81-96 (20.5 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 96-113 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO

120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO

120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 74-88 (18.7 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 121-143 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- 55.4% chance to 3HKO

+1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-154 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

Be smart about it, It's a massive threat but not Ubers worthy.

You posted 20 calcs about 2 mons who counter Mega Salamence. Meanwhile the only reason people are using Porygon 2 or Ice Beam on Slowbro in the first place IS because of Mega Salamence. That's like saying "Mega Kangaskhan is not broken, look at how badly it suffers against Cofagrigus and Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn!" If people are having to look for unorthodox answers to beating Mega Salamence that aren't great against the rest of the metagame, AND EVEN THEN ARE ONLY ABLE TO FIND A COUPLE, I'm sorry, but it's broken.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

You posted 20 calcs about 2 mons who counter Mega Salamence. Meanwhile the only reason people are using Porygon 2 or Ice Beam on Slowbro in the first place IS because of Mega Salamence. That's like saying "Mega Kangaskhan is not broken, look at how badly it suffers against Cofagrigus and Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn!" If people are having to look for unorthodox answers to beating Mega Salamence that aren't great against the rest of the metagame, AND EVEN THEN ARE ONLY ABLE TO FIND A COUPLE, I'm sorry, but it's broken.

Ice beam Porygon2 is standar and Mega Slowbro can freely choose to use Ice beam, psyshock, fire blast/thrower, psyshock without it being only to check Mega Salamence.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I

Ice beam Porygon2 is standar and Mega Slowbro can freely choose to use Ice beam, psyshock, fire blast/thrower, psyshock without it being only to check Mega Salamence.

Porygon2 is also super viable in this meta, being able to counter Greninja with ease (ye boiii). I'm not going to calc but you only need a tiny amount of sp.def bulk to reliably counter it so. I'm not going to dwell with Slowbro being viable or not.

 

[heritage]

so I'm AGAINTS banning it. Yes, it's very powerful and all that jazz. But in reality, when you're higher up on the ladder, you've learnt to be prepared. There are a few checks to his monster, Porygon2 and Slowbro are the ones I'm using and they have no problem beating his monster UNLESS you let it get to +2, which isn't possible for it to do againts MEGA SLOWBRO or PORYGON2. Porygon2 to a lesser extent. Mega Slowbro can clean OHKO it with investment with an Ice beam, Porygon2 does roughly 70% and Salamence fail to 2HKO either of them. Aslong as you play it SMART you're able to predict ahead and actually deal with this monster, and Mega Slowbro beats Gothitelle 1v1 so it's not trapped.

It's very powerful, but it's not completely, utterly gamebreaking. It's not better than Megamom, who wasn't even revenge killed.

You keep bringing up it's defence, but the trick is to not attack it on the physical side -.-

Here are some calcs

Againts Mega Salamence:

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 272-320 (69.2 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO QUAD EFFECTIVE

0 SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 136-160 (34.6 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO SUPER EFFECTIVE

Porygon2 is perfectly capable of beating Salamence, if Salamence uses Double-edge recoil will make it a 2HKO regardless of roosting on the second turn


0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 324-384 (82.4 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO QUAD EFFECTIVE

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Salamence: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO SUPER EFFECTIVE

Tricky but not something a SMART player can work around. CM on the predicted roost and Salamence will be unable to kill you before you kill him, +1 OHKO's preventing set up. At worst you're sitting at a comfortable +1 SP.atk and 1+ SP. def and at 45%

Againts Porygon2 or Mega Slowbro

-1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 64-76 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO MMMM delicious

-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 60-71 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

252+ SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 153-181 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO YUMMY, May I have another?

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 104-123 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO "ITS SO BROKEN, IT 2HKOS EVERYTHING" This is if it's Dragon dances on the turn you come in, you're perfectly capable of dealing with it since you trace intimidate.

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 81-96 (20.5 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 96-113 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO

120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 4HKO

120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 74-88 (18.7 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 121-143 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- 55.4% chance to 3HKO

+1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 130-154 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

Be smart about it, It's a massive threat but not Ubers worthy.

Yeah, I don't exactly see Porygon2 and Mega Bro on every team. And considering that you're basically saying EVERY SINGLE TEAM has to have one of these two Pokémon or get swept, you're basically arguing for it to get banned, since it limits team construction so much that these two Pokémon have to be on every team at all times.
Not to mention that if you let one of these two Pokémon die, it's game over for you.
Also, Porygon2 sucks.

Plus that text hurts my eyes, so fix it.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Yeah, I don't exactly see Porygon2 and Mega Bro on every team. And considering that you're basically saying EVERY SINGLE TEAM has to have one of these two Pokémon or get swept, you're basically arguing for it to get banned, since it limits team construction so much that these two Pokémon have to be on every team at all times.
Not to mention that if you let one of these two Pokémon die, it's game over for you.
Plus, Porygon2 sucks.

Plus that text hurts my eyes, so fix it.

There's checks for Mega Mence, you can predict good enough to prevent it from getting a set up opportunity. Porygon2 does not suck lol and I don't care about your eyes lol

 

[Josh Morales]

Aslong as you play it SMARTyou're able to predict ahead and actually deal with this monster, and Mega Slowbro beats Gothitelle 1v1 so it's not trapped.

There's checks for Mega Mence, you can predict good enough to prevent it from getting a set up opportunity. Porygon2 does not suck lol and I don't care about your eyes lol

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ad-before-posting-in-suspect-threads.3522684/

And yes P2 does suck ass, the only reason it's usable in ORAS is because it's so bulky it can check Mence and Gren, but otherwise it's nearly deadweight

This is normally a shit argument but it's not in this case: Get gud

 

[heritage]

There's checks for Mega Mence, you can predict good enough to prevent it from getting a set up opportunity. Porygon2 does not suck lol and I don't care about your eyes lol

There's checks. There's not a SINGLE solid counter to Mega Mence. That alone should stop your argument.

 

[Kurona]

Ice beam Porygon2 is standar and Mega Slowbro can freely choose to use Ice beam, psyshock, fire blast/thrower, psyshock without it being only to check Mega Salamence.

What else is Slowbro running Ice Beam for? It'd much rather run Psyshock (which you mentioned twice lol) or Flamethrower but it forces itself so try and counter Megamence instead.
Porygon2 is nice but hardly a very viable choice. Yes it can counter Greninja and Megamence, but it's still relatively passive and not a Pokémon you want to be running on every team.
You've named two... """Checks""". Anything else?

 

[Ze Diglett]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ad-before-posting-in-suspect-threads.3522684/

It's funny because his entire argument can pretty much be debunked with one quick visit to the rules thread.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ad-before-posting-in-suspect-threads.3522684/

And yes P2 does suck ass, the only reason it's usable in ORAS is because it's so bulky it can check Mence and Gren, but otherwise it's nearly deadweight

Predict as preventing it from getting an easy +1, as if locking yourself into Knock off with Landorus-Therian

 

[qways]

rayquazas base is way better than mega salamence.
about mence:
When there was this oras ou ladder (so before the oras games came out) i played with an mbeedril ho voltturn team and only got like 3 times or so swept (i didint counted it, but it was very low) by a salamence, and when i got swept, it was a mixed set. and i dint play against lower ladder players, i was most of the time somewhere between rank 20 and 50. non of his set it can run is broken or even suspect worthy, if asnything than the fact that it can run so many diffrent sets(mainly physical offense and mixed) makes it suspect worthy, however currently most people run the sub dd or sub roost set which are easily to be beaten, so practically there is no problem with it. honestly, i fear stall way more than i fear msalamence, and also on the the ladder i believe the best players are currently using stall teams, that dont run slaamence, so it is not like u totally need a salamence to be higher on the ladder.
Im currently using a team with mixmence myself and it can kill a lot of stuff the physical offense variants cant kill, but it still cant get past stuff like creeselia and p2 and zapdos without rocks.
i can understand a suspectb test, due to its high versatility, but im againts a quick ban.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Mega Mence should be quickbanned. It's almost impossible to stop once it gets a Dragon Dance boost, due to Intimidate and its excellent physical defense allowing it to survive Ice Shards and Talonflame's Brave Bird. Also, Mence is very versatile, being able to run SubDD, mixed, specially offensive or offensive DD. Porgyon2 and Cress sort of counter it, but Cress fails to OHKO with Ice Beam while Porygon2 is 2HKOed by +1 Double-Edge. Mega Slowbro dies to Hyper Voice. Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor are fried by Fire Blast. Heatran is OHKOed by Earthquake. Sableye risks eating a Draco Meteor.

Yeah, ban this stupid piece of shit.

 

[Josh Morales]

Predict as preventing it from getting an easy +1, as if locking yourself into Knock off with Landorus-Therian

Did you even read the thread or do you lack the cognitive ability to understand its contents?

 

[Imperator Romanum]

What else is Slowbro running Ice Beam for? It'd much rather run Psyshock (which you mentioned twice lol) or Flamethrower but it forces itself so try and counter Megamence instead.
Porygon2 is nice but hardly a very viable choice. Yes it can counter Greninja and Megamence, but it's still relatively passive and not a Pokémon you want to be running on every team.
You've named two... """Checks""". Anything else?

Ice beam can be ran for hitting Dragonite, Amoonguss, Mandibuzz, Thundurus, Mega-Sceptile, Zapdos, Lati@s, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Shaymin.

Porygon2 is in my opinion very viable in this metagame, being able to trace so delicious ability from mons, making it super nifty. It's bulk hasn't changed much, but it now gains a niche in being a very good answer to Salamence and Greninja making it OU Viable.

 

[Alfalfa]

Ice beam can be ran for hitting Dragonite, Amoonguss, Mandibuzz, Thundurus, Mega-Sceptile, Zapdos, Lati@s, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Shaymin.

Porygon2 is in my opinion very viable in this metagame, being able to trace so delicious ability from mons, making it super nifty. It's bulk hasn't changed much, but it now gains a niche in being a very good answer to Salamence and Greninja making it OU Viable.

Shaymin, Mandibuzz, and Amoonguss are not even common nor good. Why did you include these threats? And aside from beating MegaMence and Greninja, Pory2 is complete ass.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Ice beam can be ran for hitting Dragonite, Amoonguss, Mandibuzz, Thundurus, Mega-Sceptile, Zapdos, Lati@s, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Shaymin.

Porygon2 is in my opinion very viable in this metagame, being able to trace so delicious ability from mons, making it super nifty. It's bulk hasn't changed much, but it now gains a niche in being a very good answer to Salamence and Greninja making it OU Viable.

I'm sorry, but did you just mention shaymin of all things in an OU thread? Please.
Mandibuzz doesn't switch in on scald, neither does Thundurus, garchomp, or zapdos. Amoonguss is hit hard by psyshock or fire blast, etc. Ice Beam is basically just for mence.
Edit: @above mandibuzz and amoonguss are perfectly viable, shaymin is just completely outclassed in every single way.

 

[Kurona]

Ice beam can be ran for hitting Dragonite, Amoonguss, Mandibuzz, Thundurus, Mega-Sceptile, Zapdos, Lati@s, Mega Salamence, Garchomp, Shaymin.

Porygon2 is in my opinion very viable in this metagame, being able to trace so delicious ability from mons, making it super nifty. It's bulk hasn't changed much, but it now gains a niche in being a very good answer to Salamence and Greninja making it OU Viable.

Dragonite, Mandibuzz and Latis fair enough, but the rest it would be fine either hitting with Scald, Psyshock, is lolmence or... shaymin...?

 

[Burt Racecar]

-1 120+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 64-76 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO MMMM delicious

-1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 60-71 (16 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

This is only appropriate if you switch in pre-mega form, which allows some degree of prediction. It's not the best direction to take when arguing against a ban.

 

[RuhRohRaggie]

Be smart about it, It's a massive threat but not Ubers worthy.

It's also been regularly pointed out "it's not good enough for Ubers" is not a valid argument for any banning. Ubers is a banlist first and a tier second. OU could give a damn about whether something is strong enough for Ubers, if it's too strong for OU (which MMence obviously is for 20+ pages of Mostly Good Reasons), it's banned. The quickban is really only a question of wasting time suspecting it when the ORAS ladder basically functioned as its suspect test already.

Stop trolling (if you are) or stop posting, because either way you're just clearly wrong.

 

[Karxrida]

OK. I hate seeing game-legal pokemon get banned, but this one honestly needs it. What the hell were you thinking, Gamefreak and Masuda?

In-game legality has no bearing on what's broken or not, because Game Freak is very bad at balancing things. While we may use their rules as precedent for certain things like Soul Dew and Sleep Clause, this is our meta and we use our rules. Do not let in-game legality influence what you think is broken or not, because by that logic Phoine is an OP piece of shit while Mega Kangaskhan is completely balanced.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

No they're right. Everyone just carry a Bro or P2 and you're good. Over centralization is simply a figment of your imagination.

For the sake of not looking like too much of a dick, there are CHECKS no one is denying that, but even those checks get taken out by another set. Rhyperior is good for subDD, feel free to switch it in, and take a nice draco meteor to the face.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Jernmax I'm sorry, but I found a lot of the things you said funny.

"The trick is to not attack it on the physical side"

Lol, that's all well and good if this were skarmory or something, but this is a poke that after just one turn can sweep 95% of the tier, and the rest after just 2.

You're 2 checks argument is also ridiculous because that just shows hOw centralizing it is.

And that whole "just play smart" stuff, yeah, that was almost a good argument for aegislash, but almost don't count for nothing, all these people crying out for a quick ban asap, they're all really good players that know how to play, and they also know when something's unhealthy fire the meta, which salamander menace is