Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

Metagame premise: The move in your first slot applies the secondary effects of its Max and G-Max versions.
:ss/Charizard:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is a pretty standard Charizard. It has Flamethrower in the first moveslot. This Flamethrower still has 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, and a 10% chance to burn, but additionally will set Sun if hit successfully like Max Flare would.
:ss/Charizard-Gmax:
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Gigantamax: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is also Charizard, but now with G-Max. So instead of Flamethrower setting Sun, all non-Fire types take 1/6th damage for 4 turns.

This Metagame would be what MnM was for Gen 6 and what Ultimate Z was for Gen 7, but with Gen 8.
Potential bans and threats:
:Muk: :hitmonchan: :pidgeot:
The effects of Max-Ooze, Max-Knuckle, and Max-Airstream are all extremely overpowered when they were limited to 3 turns, so these moves would definitely need to be restricted.

:Gengar-gmax:
Gengar has access to G-Max Terror. G-Max Terror will trap any opponent that isn't Normal or immune to Trapping like Ghosts (which are weak to Ghost moves).

:alcremie-gmax:
Alcremie would get the effect of G-Max Final, which is essentially the opposite of the Kanto Starter G-Max moves, which heals itself for 1/6th HP every time it uses a Fairy move in the first slot.

:snorlax-gmax:
Snorlax having ways to restore its own berry while attacking, which like Alcremie, would be it incredibly hard to kill

:pikachu-gmax:
Pikachu may seem weak, but every electric move paralyzes the target, and that might not be competitive.

:hawlucha: :regieleki:
With regular Volt Switch, you can set terrain with any Pokemon that learns that move, so Hawlucha and Regieleki have easy access to Electric Terrain for Unburden and Rising Voltage Spam (and they can set it themselves too).
Questions for the community:
Should G-Max Pokemon be tier separately from their regular counterparts?
How should problematic Max moves be dealt with?
Would another form of restriction be better than the effects applying to the first move slot?
Should status moves gain the effects of Max moves, or just be restricted?
:ss/hydreigon::ss/mimikyu::ss/marowak-alola::ss/aegislash:
Special Dark-types and physical Ghost-types become incredibly potent wallbreakers, as their STABs lower the target's defenses.

:ss/corviknight-gmax:
Compressing Defog and Brave Bird gives Corviknight an extra moveslot to work with.

:ss/copperajah-gmax:
Now that setting Stealth Steel no longer has such a massive opportunity cost, maybe it'll see some use.

It won't see use.




:ss/butterfree-gmax:
U-turn inflicting a random status effect has the potential to be very annoying.

:ss/rillaboom-gmax: (why does these forums not have any of the Gmax mons added in Isle of Armor?)
Do the Galar starters keep their Gmax effect of setting the move's base power to 160? I don't know if that's a special effect of the move or if its lookup table for how strong it should be is just all 160. If they keep that effect, then Grassy Glide becomes even more absurd.
 
Do the Galar starters keep their Gmax effect of setting the move's base power to 160? I don't know if that's a special effect of the move or if its lookup table for how strong it should be is just all 160. If they keep that effect, then Grassy Glide becomes even more absurd
The way I see it, other Max and G-Max moves change their BP based on a condition, similar to how Gyro Ball or Water Spout will change its BP on the fly. The Galar Starters have set BP like most other moves do. On Bulbapedia, you can see that G-Max Drum Solo has 160 BP, while Max Ooze has - BP.
So I think it should just be Mold Breaker effects on moves, but I would like to hear what other people would think about it.
 
Another approach might be that each team member can "boost" one move each by ticking the "Dynamax" option at the appropriate time.
I think once per game for each Pokemon would be too Vanilla imo and this would make Strike, Quake, Flutterby, Phantasm, Steelspike, Wyrmwind, Darkness, and many G-Max moves awful. Defensive Pokemon, while can still use them, aren’t as effective with them when you can only use them once.
 
:ss/barraskewda::ss/milotic::ss/kingdra:

A huge reason for why Pelipper is such an effective weather setter is because of its access to U-turn, which allows it to pivot out to rain abusers after setting it up. Flip Turn can set up rain and pivot at the same time, and I'm pretty sure it buys you an extra rain turn in the process.
 
:ss/Bisharp:
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
Bisharp actually looks good in this Max Move metagame. It may not be able to punish Corviknight Defogging hazards when Corviknight has G-Max Wind Rage, it does however still punish all other Defogs (which will be more common when G-Mac Steelsurge sets up a new hazard), Max Strikes, Max Wyrmwinds, Max Darkness, Max Phantasm, and especially Max Flutterby. Any U-turn that is in the first slot is now something an easy means for Bisharp to get instant +2 Attack for free. Any Breaking Swipe tactics just mean Defiant is boosted Twice. Explosion will lower Bisharp’s Speed at little damage while raising Atk, and Bisharp has priority anyways. And Max Phantasm/Darkness are resisted by Bisharp too.
On top of that, Bisharp gets Steelspikes that has a 30% flinch chance, making its great Defense better each use.

:ss/Crawdaunt:
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet/Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Crabhammer/Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
Crawdaunt becomes a massive threat in this meta thanks to it getting to set its own Rain with Adaptability boosted Water moves, including priority. Anything that switches in better hope they can take a Rain boosted Aqua Jet next turn. If Crawdaunt does 40% or more, and the opponent lacks priority, Crawdaunt KOs it. Aqua Jet also lets Crawdaunt let Rain as a last hail mary before fainting and letting its partners abuse the rain.

:ss/Raichu-alola:
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
Alolan Raichu is part of the few Pokemon that can double its speed in 1 turn while attacking and also use Rising Voltage for the Max Slot. Not relying on other setters like Tapu Koko and can remove opposing terrain on the switch makes Alolan Raichu a huge threat.
 
Multi-hits are fun.

:ss/garchomp:
Scale Shot's Defense drop is made up for by it tanking the opponent's Attack stat.

:ss/heracross:
Arm Thrust is like Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch on crack. Not only does it massively boost your Attack, but it can potentially now deal respectable damage thanks to it boosting your Attack mid-move. Instead of having an effective base power of 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (depending on how many times it hits), it has an effective base power of 37.5 / 67.5 / 105 / 150, that's the first time you use it.
 
:ss/heracross:
Arm Thrust is like Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch on crack. Not only does it massively boost your Attack, but it can potentially now deal respectable damage thanks to it boosting your Attack mid-move. Instead of having an effective base power of 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (depending on how many times it hits), it has an effective base power of 37.5 / 67.5 / 105 / 150, that's the first time you use it.
It would only increase the stat once, and Fighting Moves, along with Poison and Flying moves, are likely going to be restricted from slot 1.
 
It would only increase the stat once
That's not how secondary effects work. Scale Shot and Clanging Scales are special cases. Every other secondary effect activates per hit, specifically the ones where the secondary effect is grafted onto a move. King's Rock, Poison Touch, Parental Bond PuP, they all activate per hit instead of per move.
 
That's not how secondary effects work. Scale Shot and Clanging Scales are special cases. Every other secondary effect activates per hit, specifically the ones where the secondary effect is grafted onto a move. King's Rock, Poison Touch, Parental Bond PuP, they all activate per hit instead of per move.
Looking at Showdown's source code, King's Rock, Poison Touch, and Power-up Punch are all "secondary" effects or apply secondary effects, while Scale Shot and Clanging Scales are "selfBoost".
For Max Moves have "self" effects, which is a weird distinction, but it's why Sheer Force does not work with Max Moves.
You can check it here;
moves
items
abilities
You can also tell since Power-up Punch says it has a 100% chance to raise Attack and has Secondary Effect label, while moves like Sword Dance or Scale Shot just say they they raise or lower the respective stats.

Also still wondering what people think Status moves should do in this meta? Should they do nothing, have the effects of the regular attacking type, or be Max Guard? The Do nothing and Max Guard scenarios are distinct since a full status moveset would likely be banned with Max Guard.
 
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Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Pre-Contributor
I just had an idea: Flipped Inverse. I don't know if this would be amazing or go horribly wrong, but I do know that Avalugg is prominent in both.
Cool idea, but this actually falls under OMMs (Other Metagames Mashups), which combine two different OMs into a completely different format. We have a room on Showdown where tours are hosted all of the time, and you can 100% ask for Flipped Inverse there.
 
Next in Line
Dunno if this has been submitted before as it's a relatively simple concept; basically, you inherit the movepool of the next Pokemon in Teambuilder. If your Pokemon is in the sixth slot, you inherit the 1st Pokemon's movepool.
 
Next in Line
Dunno if this has been submitted before as it's a relatively simple concept; basically, you inherit the movepool of the next Pokemon in Teambuilder. If your Pokemon is in the sixth slot, you inherit the 1st Pokemon's movepool.
I submitted the idea earlier in the generation, but unfortunately it was rejected for being a worse version of Inheritance.
 
I submitted the idea earlier in the generation, but unfortunately it was rejected for being a worse version of Inheritance.
I'll be honest I struggle to see how it is a worse version of Inheritance. I don't think it would be particularly fun to bulld for, no, but IMO they're fundamentally different. With NiL, you're building to support your team and cycling switches to get a desired movepool for the opposing Pokémon, whereas Inheritance you specifically engineer a Pokémon via another Pokémon replacing the original Pokémon's movepool and abilities. Either way I'd be down to at least attempt to play this at some point lol
 
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I'll be honest I struggle to see how it is a worse version of Inheritance. I don't think it would be particularly fun to bulld for, no, but IMO they're fundamentally different. With DtL, you're building to support your team and cycling switches to get a desired movepool for the opposing Pokémon, whereas Inheritance you specifically engineer a Pokémon via another Pokémon replacing the original Pokémon's movepool and abilities. Either way I'd be down to at least attempt to play this at some point lol
I don't really see how it's Worse Inheritance either, but it's the reason the mods gave for rejecting it. Though mine didn't involve dynamically changing movesets during battle.
 
I'll be honest I struggle to see how it is a worse version of Inheritance. I don't think it would be particularly fun to bulld for, no, but IMO they're fundamentally different. With DtL, you're building to support your team and cycling switches to get a desired movepool for the opposing Pokémon, whereas Inheritance you specifically engineer a Pokémon via another Pokémon replacing the original Pokémon's movepool and abilities. Either way I'd be down to at least attempt to play this at some point lol
I don't really see how it's Worse Inheritance either, but it's the reason the mods gave for rejecting it. Though mine didn't involve dynamically changing movesets during battle.
Besides abilities, it’s a more restrictive Inheritance basically.
If you want to have Darmanitan Inherit from Victini, you would need Darmanitan and Victini on the same team, while something gets Darmanitan’s Movepool and Victini needs another Pokemon’s movepool.
 
Besides abilities, it’s a more restrictive Inheritance basically.
If you want to have Darmanitan Inherit from Victini, you would need Darmanitan and Victini on the same team, while something gets Darmanitan’s Movepool and Victini needs another Pokemon’s movepool.
You're still playing around the order of your team though in this rendition, which makes this point kinda redundant due to you not having the desired set always. Not even at lead will every mon have the desired set unless you always lead slot 1 because of how team preview works.
 
You're still playing around the order of your team though in this rendition, which makes this point kinda redundant due to you not having the desired set always. Not even at lead will every mon have the desired set unless you always lead slot 1 because of how team preview works.
The movepool is based on Teambuilder and lead doesn’t matter.
 

Ducky

Aw Phooey
is a Pre-Contributor
Depends if it's dynamic or not. If not, then yes you're right, otherwise its fundamentally different.
It looks like the OP said it would be based on the teambuilder. Also, I am not sure if changing the movesets dynamically would be a good idea, both from a coding and playing prospect, as your opponent doesnt see the mons "changing order" so it would be very confusing to play.
 
Dynamin:

The dynamax button will now, instead of enlarging your Pokémon for three turns, will shrink your opponent's Pokémon for three turns.

For that time period, all their Pokémon halve their hp and their attacks are treated as if they have a - 1 in the relevant stat.
How would Shedinja work? Would the button just kill it or would it stay at 1 HP?

Similarly, if a mon (non-shedinja) is at 1 HP, would it stay at 1 HP or just die? If it stays at 1 HP, does it get to 2 HP after the Dynamin ends? (Assuming it survives)
 
Tentative title: Category Swap
Metagame premise: All physical moves are special, and all special moves are physical.
Potential bans and threats:
  • :Nidoking: Nidoking can use basically the same sets it's been using since Gen 5, only this time they run off its higher attack stat.
  • :Azumarill: Azumarill now has access to physical Hydro Pump/Surf and Ice Beam, which have higher base power than Liquidation and Ice Punch respectively. It doesn't get a reliable Fairy move, though.
  • :Dragapult: Shadow Ball is a decent, reliable Ghost move that now runs off Dragapult's higher attack.
  • :Electivire: :Tapu Koko: Basically every physical Electric-type gets a STAB better than Wild Charge or Thunder Punch now that Thunderbolt is physical, on top of extra coverage. For example, Electivire can now make better use of Flamethrower and Psychic, while Tapu Koko can make better use of Dazzling Gleam.
Questions for the community: How would moves such as Shell Side Arm and Psyshock work? Would altering them veer into Pet Mod territory?
 

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