Next in Line
Dunno if this has been submitted before as it's a relatively simple concept; basically, you inherit the movepool of the next Pokemon in Teambuilder. If your Pokemon is in the sixth slot, you inherit the 1st Pokemon's movepool.
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Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)
- Thread starter drampa's grandpa
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I submitted the idea earlier in the generation, but unfortunately it was rejected for being a worse version of Inheritance.
I'll be honest I struggle to see how it is a worse version of Inheritance. I don't think it would be particularly fun to bulld for, no, but IMO they're fundamentally different. With NiL, you're building to support your team and cycling switches to get a desired movepool for the opposing Pokémon, whereas Inheritance you specifically engineer a Pokémon via another Pokémon replacing the original Pokémon's movepool and abilities. Either way I'd be down to at least attempt to play this at some point lol
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I don't really see how it's Worse Inheritance either, but it's the reason the mods gave for rejecting it. Though mine didn't involve dynamically changing movesets during battle.
Besides abilities, it’s a more restrictive Inheritance basically.
If you want to have Darmanitan Inherit from Victini, you would need Darmanitan and Victini on the same team, while something gets Darmanitan’s Movepool and Victini needs another Pokemon’s movepool.
You're still playing around the order of your team though in this rendition, which makes this point kinda redundant due to you not having the desired set always. Not even at lead will every mon have the desired set unless you always lead slot 1 because of how team preview works.
The movepool is based on Teambuilder and lead doesn’t matter.
Depends if it's dynamic or not. If not, then yes you're right, otherwise its fundamentally different.
It looks like the OP said it would be based on the teambuilder. Also, I am not sure if changing the movesets dynamically would be a good idea, both from a coding and playing prospect, as your opponent doesnt see the mons "changing order" so it would be very confusing to play.
How would Shedinja work? Would the button just kill it or would it stay at 1 HP?
Similarly, if a mon (non-shedinja) is at 1 HP, would it stay at 1 HP or just die? If it stays at 1 HP, does it get to 2 HP after the Dynamin ends? (Assuming it survives)
Shedinja is hard-coded to only ever have one hit point.
Tentative title: Category Swap
Metagame premise: All physical moves are special, and all special moves are physical.
Potential bans and threats:
Metagame premise: All physical moves are special, and all special moves are physical.
Potential bans and threats:
Nidoking can use basically the same sets it's been using since Gen 5, only this time they run off its higher attack stat.
Azumarill now has access to physical Hydro Pump/Surf and Ice Beam, which have higher base power than Liquidation and Ice Punch respectively. It doesn't get a reliable Fairy move, though.
Shadow Ball is a decent, reliable Ghost move that now runs off Dragapult's higher attack.
Basically every physical Electric-type gets a STAB better than Wild Charge or Thunder Punch now that Thunderbolt is physical, on top of extra coverage. For example, Electivire can now make better use of Flamethrower and Psychic, while Tapu Koko can make better use of Dazzling Gleam.
No change IMO, just make them work like they do rn (past category swap).
So I talked about this idea in the Other Metas chatroom on Showdown, and here's what we came up with:
- alpioc said that fewer Pokémon would be screwed if only the top two moves changed category to fit the Pokémon's highest attacking stat á la Revelationmons, rather than all of them.
- Sample sets! (Not pictured: Nidoqueen, Scizor, Reuniclus, Dedidueye, Kartana, and other Pokémon the chat brought up. Credit to swsh nu for the Articuno.)
- Stat boosts still work the same. Moves that lower the relevant attacking stat (Draco Meteor, Superpower, etc) would be overpowered here.
Sorry for double-posting, but I've had more thoughts about Category Swap:
- Foul Play and Body Press would still run off the opponent's attack and user's defense, respectively... right? I don't know how they're programmed.
- All of the sample sets I posted yesterday were of offensive Pokémon, so I wanted to think about some defensive Pokémon as well. Which ones are good really depends on how people would play, but someone in the chat pointed out that Ferrothorn could make good use of Giga Drain. Plus, it resists both of Tapu Koko's STABs.
- Decreased viability:
These Pokémon learn single-digit numbers of special moves, most of which are listed as unviable.
Its physical movepool isn't bad, but it doesn't learn a physical flinch move.
I would think so, they would just hit as a special move.
JavaScript:
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accuracy: 100,
basePower: 80,
category: "Physical",
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pp: 10,
priority: 0,
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overrideOffensiveStat: 'def',
secondary: null,
target: "normal",
type: "Fighting",
},
JavaScript:
foulplay: {
num: 492,
accuracy: 100,
basePower: 95,
category: "Physical",
name: "Foul Play",
pp: 15,
priority: 0,
flags: {contact: 1, protect: 1, mirror: 1},
overrideOffensivePokemon: 'target',
secondary: null,
target: "normal",
type: "Dark",
contestType: "Clever",
},
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So Foul Play would use the opponent's special attack? Makes sense.
I don't want to try submitting this until I've playtested a few matches, but I can't do that until a CatSwap mod is implemented on Showdown. Is there a place to ask about that?
I don't want to try submitting this until I've playtested a few matches, but I can't do that until a CatSwap mod is implemented on Showdown. Is there a place to ask about that?
The whole point of submitting an OM is to make it playable, unless you can find someone to code it on a custom server, it wont be playable until its accepted
Oh. My previous submission, Maxgen (which got rejected), had some replays because the mod already existed on the server. Still, I need help polishing this idea.
Foul Play would still target the opponent's physical attack. The way Foul Play and Body Press work is that partway through the damage calculation, the move says "replace the user's Attack with this number instead" and swapping the user's Attack for their Special Attack wouldn't change what the move substitutes in its place.
I don't think status moves should be restricted, but (imo) they shouldn't be eligible for the effect. (Imagine Substitute or Swords Dance/Cotton Guard/Tail Glow/etc. but with Max Guard. It would make setting up quite hard to beat.)Metagame premise: The move in your first slot applies thesecondaryeffects of its Max and G-Max versions.
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is a pretty standard Charizard. It has Flamethrower in the first moveslot. This Flamethrower still has 90 BP, 100 Accuracy, and a 10% chance to burn, but additionally will set Sun if hit successfully like Max Flare would.
Charizard @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
Gigantamax: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Weather Ball
- Overheat
- Focus Blast
Here is also Charizard, but now with G-Max. So instead of Flamethrower setting Sun, all non-Fire types take 1/6th damage for 4 turns.
This Metagame would be what MnM was for Gen 6 and what Ultimate Z was for Gen 7, but with Gen 8.
Potential bans and threats:
The effects of Max-Ooze, Max-Knuckle, and Max-Airstream are all extremely overpowered when they were limited to 3 turns, so these moves would definitely need to be restricted.
Gengar has access to G-Max Terror. G-Max Terror will trap any opponent that isn't Normal or immune to Trapping like Ghosts (which are weak to Ghost moves).
Probably one of the best Pokemon in the entire Metagame with its ability Defiant, Sucker Punch, Steel Spike, and Dark/Steel typing. It can punish Flutterby U-turns, Strike Facade/Body Slams/Rapid Spin give it a defiant boost, Wyrmwind Break Swipe/Scale Shot/Clanging Scale are resisted and boost Defiant, Phantasm Shadow Sneaks/Poltergeist and Darkness Dark Pulses similarly are resisted too. A new hazard and easier aurora veil also means Bisharp can switch into more Defogs in this meta.
Raichu-A becomes one of the strongest Electric types in the tier thanks to Max Lightning Rising Voltage and Volt Switch. It can set up the Terrain it abuses by using Rising Voltage or have one of many Volt Switch users set terrain while it switches in to be immediately threatening. If Tapu Lele or Rillaboom switch into Raichu’s Rising Voltage, they lose their terrains, and Raichu is naturally faster than Lele too. Raichu-A also gains access to Grass Knot and STAB Psychic to deal with Ground types that otherwise block Rising Voltage.
Snorlax having ways to restore its own berry while attacking, which like Alcremie, would be it incredibly hard to kill
Pikachu may seem weak, but every electric move paralyzes the target, and that might not be competitive.
With regular Volt Switch, you can set terrain with any Pokemon that learns that move, so Hawlucha and Regieleki have easy access to Electric Terrain for Unburden and Rising Voltage Spam (and they can set it themselves too).
Like with Hawlucha, Swift Swimmers and Sand Rushers can set their own weathers, with Swift Swim also having Flip Turn support too. Barraskewda and Excadrill being the biggest threats.
Like Pikachu, but can poison the opponent instead, which is less more competitive tbh but is also on a much better Pokemon.
Like with G-Max Terror, these guys can trap the foe with their STAB moves on moves much stronger than Fire Spin and Sand Tomb
G-Max Befuddle is also potentially uncompetitive strategy I forgot to mention as it has 3 different status effects that also happen to be attatched to a Pivot Move in U-turn. Butterfree is the weakest between Pikachu and Toxtricity, but a 33% chance to Sleep while using U-turn could be strong (or not since Tapu Koko exists and it can only pull this off against something like Blissey or Choice Locked Pokemon).
Blastoise got Shell Smash in Gen 8, and while still walled by Toxapex, Ferrothorn doesn’t like taking 1/6th health every turn for not being part Water.
Venusaur is absolutely a monster in sun, especially with G-Max Vine Lash heavily damaging Non-grass types, while also packing Weather Ball and Sludge Bomb for Grass types.
Charizard can deal with Tyranitar better by either removing the Sand it sets while it switches in, or making sure Tyranitar takes heavy chip damage on its way in, but still has limited options for Heatran.
While Kingler is often overlooked even with its G-Max form, Foam Burst is actually pretty threatening on it. A Life Orb Sheer Force Liquidation hits really hard, and when you can lower the switch-in’s speed by 2 stages, something like Zerarora no longer outspeeds Kingler, which is actually insane.
Same thing with Obstagoon’s Facade. Any non-Ghosts and the likes of Regieleki become immediately slower switching in, and the Ghosts don’t like Guts boosted Knock Offs either.
Questions for the community:
Should G-Max Pokemon be tier separately from their regular counterparts?
How should problematic Max moves be dealt with?
Would another form of restriction be better than the effects applying to the first move slot?
Should status moves gain the effects of Max moves, or just be restricted?
Maybe ban status moves from being in first move slot? Or, if there is one in Move Slot 1, the "eligibility" is moved to Move Slot 2. If both Slot 1 and 2 are status, move eligibility to Move Slot 3, and so on for Move Slot 4. Maybe if all moves are status, then none of them would be "eligible".
Just as a heads up, what you’re describing is a restriction. Several move-based OMs (Linked, Revelationmons) have a restricted move list, that are not allowed in the first two move slots.
Banned=not allowed at all.
Restricted=not allowed to participate in the mechanic, but legal otherwise.
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