Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)

[MAMP]

regaining the item at end of turn definitely sounds more balanced, prevents infinite shenanigans and stops silliness like pult subbing to 25 and getting +6 instantly from petaya. also nerfs regen eject button stuff. i like the concept though, lots of fun possibilities to consider. knock off is quite powerful if they don’t get the item back

 

[drampa's grandpa]

RecycleMons

Metagame Premise:

Single use items like Focus Sash, Weakness Policy, Berries, Herbs, etc. are immediately regained upon consumption.

Potential Bans & Threats:

Power Herb Meteor Beam and Throat Spray sound based moves let Pokemon like Nihilego and Noivern snowball quickly.

Bulky Regenerator users like Toxapex and Tangrowth can use Eject Button to come in on attacks and give teammates free switches.

Offensive mons like Blaziken or Azumarill that struggle with longevity can use Sitrus Berry to heal up whenever they drop below 1/2 HP.

Moves like Draco Meteor and V-create that lower the user's stats can essentially be turned into pivot moves with Eject Pack. Dragapult's excellent Speed and Victini's exclusive access to the powerful V-create make them prime users of this strategy.

+6 omniboost at 1/4 HP is comically overpowered and worthy of a quickban. Same applies for Liechi Berry's +6 Atk, Petaya Berry's +6 SpA, and Salac Berry's +6 Spe.

Questions For The Community:

The nature of stat boosting berries (Starf, Liechi, etc.) might cause an infinite loop upon activation. How should this be addressed? The only berries that wouldn't be banned regardless would be Ganlon Berry and Apicot Berry, both of which likely wouldn't have a particularly strong impact, so a ban on all stat boosting berries looks to be a good, harmless solution.

I very much agree with MAMP: end of a turn is a LOT better.
This meta has a couple fun gimmicks (Sitrus Berry spam sounds fun, Snorlax with SubGluttony is suddenly really hard to kill) but overall I don't see a ton of appeal.
Maybe if more items or strategies or items to use are pointed out to me I will reverse my opinion.

Also keep in mind that submissions are closed for this generation, although you are of course welcome to submit next gen, and I would not consider this an automatic rejection.
lol Starf=Moody

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Air Balloon is now a proper Ground immunity.

Even without Eject Pack, users of stat-lowering moves can still make use of this OM's gimmick. Also has synergy with stat-lowering boosting moves like Curse and Shell Smash as well as stat-lowering abilities like Weak Armor and Moody, and also acts as Clear Body against stuff like Intimidate and Sticky Web.

I don't know if it's banworthy, since you're not denying the opponent a chance to act like the Roar Riolu days of yore, but it does sound really fucking annoying.

Looking forward to next gen, reusable Mirror Herb will dissuade the opponent from setting up throughout the whole match.

Of all the "get hit by a certain type attack to boost a stat" items, the Cell Battery seems like it'd be the most useful, since you can use it to punish Volt Switch.

Complete immunity to status, as well as Rest with no downside.

 

[Cuddly]

+6 omniboost at 1/4 HP is comically overpowered and worthy of a quickban. Same applies for Liechi Berry's +6 Atk, Petaya Berry's +6 SpA, and Salac Berry's +6 Spe.

I’m pretty certain this would actually softlock games. Unless I’m wrong about it being consumed after +6. Terrain Seeds should also likewise be banned if they cause softlocks.
Also consider banning Shedinja. Focus Sash is basically Sturdy but does mean you’re unable to use Heavy Duty Boots. Not too much of a cost since the powerlevel of this Meta won’t be close to the same as BH.
Some other stuff that would be broken would be Shell Smash+White Herb, Throat Spray, ClangSoul+Healing Berries, Weakness Berries, and a lot of stuff honestly.

 

[Apollo ChaoZ]

seems like a really cool idea with all the changes added

 

[urkerab]

RecycleMons

Recyclables was a similar Gen 6 OM but it recycled at the end of the turn as was subsequently suggested.

 

[KaenSoul]

Yesterday we were discussing a terrible idea in the OM room and out of that discussion and not so bad idea come out, and I want to know if I'm not the only one who sees potential on it, I call it
Unwanted Gifts
Metagame premise: A Pokémon receive the foe's original ability upon entering the field.
While teambuilding for this meta you can't just choose the mons with the best abilities as your opponent would be the one using them, well then maybe Durant could be a good option? but what is going to do against someone with stronger mons like Corviknight? Maybe choosing the worst possible ability isn't that good of an idea either!
But then what works? Let's find out!
Potential bans and threats: Maybe we should ban the hindering abilities to prevent centralization, but I fear going beyond "possible" broken mons like Regigigas or Slaking (assuming either is in SV) could hurt the identity of the tier.
Questions for the community:
Prioritize the Ban of mons or abilitites?
Would you actually put Archen on your team if Archeops was banned just to give Defeatist to the opponent instead of actually using 6 mons?
Would the usual ability bans (Shadow Tag, Moody, Arena Trap, etc.) be necessary here?

 

[Cratersmash]

Would the usual ability bans (Shadow Tag, Moody, Arena Trap, etc.) be necessary here?

Considering the fact that if you put the ability on your Mon, you don’t actually get to use it, no. You’re just giving your opponent a broken ability

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I feel like it would be more interesting if Pokemon kept their own ability on top of whatever abilities the opponent passes onto it. Like Shared Power but the ability gets given to the opponent's active Pokemon and they probably don't keep their added abilities when they switch. If it's just everyone gets Skill Swapped, I expect the meta to be to use filler abilities like Keen Eye and Early Bird, at which point it's not so much "everyone gets the opponent's abilities" as it is "nobody has abilities".

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Just to make sure - I can't really tell, this sounds like Shared Power but with opponent's abilities?

 

[KaenSoul]

Just to make sure - I can't really tell, this sounds like Shared Power but with opponent's abilities?

You keep the ability until you leave the field, but reverse Shared Power wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Actually, if people prefer it to act that way, we can take that route instead.
I like both ideas and would be fine with leading either.

I feel like it would be more interesting if Pokemon kept their own ability on top of whatever abilities the opponent passes onto it. Like Shared Power but the ability gets given to the opponent's active Pokemon and they probably don't keep their added abilities when they switch. If it's just everyone gets Skill Swapped, I expect the meta to be to use filler abilities like Keen Eye and Early Bird, at which point it's not so much "everyone gets the opponent's abilities" as it is "nobody has abilities".

I prefer to not keep the original ability.
A Pokémon with typically bad abilities gaining viability wouldn't be a bad thing, I'm already expecting some "meh ability but still good mon" to stay relevant like Anticipation Ferrothorn, Keen Eye Skarmory, Sand Veil Garchomp or anything Weavile, and if they get to keep their own abilities they would totally outclass lower tier mons like Archeops, Regigigas or Durant that would just be kinda annoying at best.

Considering the fact that if you put the ability on your Mon, you don’t actually get to use it, no. You’re just giving your opponent a broken ability

That was mostly me making the post longer, but some are actually fun to think about, as there is always the possibility to manually skill swap them.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I prefer to not keep the original ability.
A Pokémon with typically bad abilities gaining viability wouldn't be a bad thing, I'm already expecting some "meh ability but still good mon" to stay relevant like Anticipation Ferrothorn, Keen Eye Skarmory, Sand Veil Garchomp or anything Weavile, and if they get to keep their own abilities they would totally outclass lower tier mons like Archeops, Regigigas or Durant that would just be kinda annoying at best.

The problem is that there just aren't enough harmful abilities to make this work. Truant, Slow Start, and Defeatist have only four users between them, and then after that there's Klutz, and then... Hustle to make physical attackers unreliable? Fluffy and Dry Skin to make things weak to Fire (no Fire-type gets those abilities)? Stuff like Anticipation Ferrothorn is just boring. There's no risk and no reward, it's just "everyone gets nothing".

If Pokemon also get to keep their own abilities, there's a more interesting tradeoff. Sure, you can use Lando-T and Intimidate stuff, but you'll also be Intimidating yourself every time. Toxapex comes in to wall your mon? Don't worry, it just gave you Regenerator, so you'll heal as you retreat.

 

[KaenSoul]

The problem is that there just aren't enough harmful abilities to make this work. Truant, Slow Start, and Defeatist have only four users between them, and then after that there's Klutz, and then... Hustle to make physical attackers unreliable? Fluffy and Dry Skin to make things weak to Fire (no Fire-type gets those abilities)? Stuff like Anticipation Ferrothorn is just boring. There's no risk and no reward, it's just "everyone gets nothing".

If Pokemon also get to keep their own abilities, there's a more interesting tradeoff. Sure, you can use Lando-T and Intimidate stuff, but you'll also be Intimidating yourself every time. Toxapex comes in to wall your mon? Don't worry, it just gave you Regenerator, so you'll heal as you retreat.

Now you are convincing me, It may be quite interesting how that evolves, as there is more incentive on using the strong ones but at the same time a lot of them wouldn't want to become their own counters, like Ferrothorn getting hit by its own Iron Barbs each time it tries to knock off someone, a neat concept.

But I wonder what would the better, more interesting and fun to play premise now, the original one doesn't seem as attractive now.
A) Pokémon receive the foe's original ability upon entering the field as a second ability.
This would be DrPumpkinz's take on the idea.

B) When sending out your Pokémon, it will gain the foe's original ability, and share it with the rest of the team.
This would be like a reverse shared power, where you could end with up to 7 abilities on each Pokémon, its original and every ability it gets from the opposite team. Mixing what DrPumpkinz said and Yveltal for PU's confusion.

 

[kenn]

This isn't so much an idea as it's gonna be a post about garnering how much interest there would be in bringing back this: Type CondensinG

It was discussed a bit in the room today and we got to talking (mainly KaenSoul and I lol with a sprinkle of astralydia ) and a major change that has occured since this was a thing back in XY was the removal of Fairy types starting in Sword and Shield Base Set so that would bring them down to a total of 10 types:

TCG Types

(retype Poison types)

(retypes Rock and Ground types)

(retypes Bug types)

(retypes Flying types)

(retypes Fairy and Ghost types)

(retypes Ice types)

This could be HUGE for things like Tyranitar (Fighting/Dark) and Hydreigon (Dark/Dragon) who were 4x weak to Fairy then but would in fact be immune to them now as they are retyped to Psychic.

Initial watch list if this were to go through and get approved

Only weak to Dragon thanks to Fairy being gone and how Levitate works in this OM (makes it immune to Fighting type attacks)

There are no longer any Ground types, it's fast af plus Transistor to boost its already spammable STAB

New typing: Normal/Dragon
Obligatory STAB Boom lol

Lemme know any thoughts/concerns and what, if any, ideas you guys have for good Pokémon and maybe sets as well.

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

This isn't so much an idea as it's gonna be a post about garnering how much interest there would be in bringing back this: Type CondensinG

It was discussed a bit in the room today and we got to talking (mainly KaenSoul and I lol with a sprinkle of astralydia ) and a major change that has occured since this was a thing back in XY was the removal of Fairy types starting in Sword and Shield Base Set so that would bring them down to a total of 10 types:

TCG Types

(retypes Rock and Ground types)

(retypes Bug types)

(retypes Flying types)

(retypes Fairy, Ghost, and Poison types)

(retypes Ice types)

This could be HUGE for things like Tyranitar (Fighting/Dark) and Hydreigon (Dark/Dragon) who were 4x weak to Fairy then but would in fact be immune to them now as they are retyped to Psychic.

Initial watch list if this were to go through and get approved

Only weak to Dragon thanks to Fairy being gone and how Levitate works in this OM (makes it immune to Fighting type attacks)

There are no longer any Ground types, it's fast af plus Transistor to boost its already spammable STAB

New typing: Normal/Dragon
Obligatory STAB Boom lol

Lemme know any thoughts/concerns and what, if any, ideas you guys have for good Pokémon and maybe sets as well.

Poison-types are Dark-types now btw.
Neat meta! I want my bulky Water Avalugg

 

[KaenSoul]

This isn't so much an idea as it's gonna be a post about garnering how much interest there would be in bringing back this: Type CondensinG

It was discussed a bit in the room today and we got to talking (mainly KaenSoul and I lol with a sprinkle of astralydia ) and a major change that has occured since this was a thing back in XY was the removal of Fairy types starting in Sword and Shield Base Set so that would bring them down to a total of 10 types:

TCG Types

(retype Poison types)

(retypes Rock and Ground types)

(retypes Bug types)

(retypes Flying types)

(retypes Fairy and Ghost types)

(retypes Ice types)

This could be HUGE for things like Tyranitar (Fighting/Dark) and Hydreigon (Dark/Dragon) who were 4x weak to Fairy then but would in fact be immune to them now as they are retyped to Psychic.

Initial watch list if this were to go through and get approved

Only weak to Dragon thanks to Fairy being gone and how Levitate works in this OM (makes it immune to Fighting type attacks)

There are no longer any Ground types, it's fast af plus Transistor to boost its already spammable STAB

New typing: Normal/Dragon
Obligatory STAB Boom lol

Lemme know any thoughts/concerns and what, if any, ideas you guys have for good Pokémon and maybe sets as well.

We have been brainstorming quite a bit


Bug is now grass, that means Grassy Terrain boosted U-turn, huge boost for Rilla, and Volturn teams in general as no ground means you need volt absorb or similar to stop a chain.

Dragon is busted and Steel is heavily nerfed, no fairies, no ice, fighting based stealth rocks, yeah there isn't much that can take on Dragon-types and with the added SR weakness Steel is going to have a hard time trying to check them like in some old gens. Also, Corv is Normal/Steel so good luck with that.


Ice is Water now, that means Beartic and Arctovish can double their speed on Hail while receiving a power boost on Rain, Beartic get both at the same time thanks to Swift Swim. That also means Rain boosted Triple Axel, Freeze-Dry, Ice Beam or Blizzard from all the strong Ice-types like Weavile and Glaceon. Abomasnow now has no weaknesses so is a much better setter than before. Avalugg is now a bulky water and can actually check stuff now, like the other water types.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

Condensed TypinG sounds more like a pet mod to me.

 

[Yak Attack]

Too Many Choices​

Apologies for the silly name, but it's probably true - in this meta, you'd make 4 sets for each Pokemon on your team, and then in Team Preview, you get to choose which set you use for each mon. I really have no idea what would be good or not, but you could have vastly different sets on Pokemon with different roles, so it'd make it interesting.

 

[Gimmicky]

This isn't so much an idea as it's gonna be a post about garnering how much interest there would be in bringing back this: Type CondensinG

It was discussed a bit in the room today and we got to talking (mainly KaenSoul and I lol with a sprinkle of astralydia ) and a major change that has occured since this was a thing back in XY was the removal of Fairy types starting in Sword and Shield Base Set so that would bring them down to a total of 10 types:

TCG Types

(retype Poison types)

(retypes Rock and Ground types)

(retypes Bug types)

(retypes Flying types)

(retypes Fairy and Ghost types)

(retypes Ice types)

This could be HUGE for things like Tyranitar (Fighting/Dark) and Hydreigon (Dark/Dragon) who were 4x weak to Fairy then but would in fact be immune to them now as they are retyped to Psychic.

Initial watch list if this were to go through and get approved

Only weak to Dragon thanks to Fairy being gone and how Levitate works in this OM (makes it immune to Fighting type attacks)

There are no longer any Ground types, it's fast af plus Transistor to boost its already spammable STAB

New typing: Normal/Dragon
Obligatory STAB Boom lol

Lemme know any thoughts/concerns and what, if any, ideas you guys have for good Pokémon and maybe sets as well.

As someone else present for the brainstorming session, here's a few other things I found interesting. Definitely want to bring this back for SV!

Kaen brought up volt turn, and Thundy-T is one of the prime abusers. Volt Switch is monstrously powerful even with its middling BP, there are no ground types, and any specially defensive mons get voltturned on and still lead to a disadvantage for you. Instant watchlist if not initial ban.

&

The new fighting type went from a middling at best offensive type to arguably one of the best in the format. Ken mentioned TTar, so I wanted to bring up two of my favorite pokemon that exemplify what makes this meta worth bringing back. Aerodactyl goes from a lower-tier support mon to a fast and strong choice-bander with STAB No-Recoil DEdge and reliable Fighting Stab in Earthquake, while Lycanroc gains a 156 BO stab move in Tough Claws CC, and amazing coverage in just Crunch/Sucker and Fire Fang.

Nidoking can effectively run mixed attacking stats now with a STAB Rock Slide and Throat Chop, and reliable coverage in Ice Punch/Beam and Fire Punch/Flamethrower.

Three words: Stealth Rocks Neutrality. Three more words: STAB Giga Drain. Three more words: Fire is busted. Volcarona can effectively run sets without HDB, has a reliable STAB recovery move, and a great typing due to all of the condensing removing it's weaknesses.

In short, TCG would be a fun meta to bing back, with a lot of the charm of more well-known OMs like STAB and Revmons, while also bring it's own unique flair that justifies it's revival in some capacity.

 

[Gimmicky]

Condensed TypinG sounds more like a pet mod to me.

I'd have to disagree on this purely because of the difference between a Pet Mod and an OM; as put in this 2019 Smogon article, "An Other Metagame's alterations follow a universal rule or set of rules that keeps all or most of the vanilla mechanics of Pokémon intact...On the contrary, Pet Mods are determined based off of the creator's decisions rather than a concrete rule."

TcG follows a universal rule and has little to no creator interference besides that, so it better fits the definition of an Other Metagame than a Pet Mod

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Fire / Grass has no weaknesses and perfect neutral coverage, and it can become even more threatening in Sun with Solar Beam. STAB Giga Drain is nice, but even on non-Sun teams it's competing with Bug Buzz.


Not as threatening as Volcarona, but STAB Power Whip is cool.


Murder Dog now has STAB Close Combat, with Crunch for coverage against Psychics. It doesn't really need any other moves, which frees it up to run stuff like Accelerock (aka Mach Punch), Swords Dance, Stealth Rock, Taunt, or Substitute.


Becoming part Psychic lets Blacephalon make use of Psyshock and Stored Power. It also has perfect neutral coverage. A lot of Pokemon are going to be having perfect neutral coverage, it feels like. Blacephalon also gets Fighting coverage in the form of Rock Blast, though since Tyranitar no longer resists Fighting and Blissey can be broken through with Psychic STAB it's not really needed anymore.


Water-types seem pretty heavily nerfed. Both of their weaknesses are still around, with Grass-types becoming more common due to absorbing Bug (aka U-turn), it loses a resistance due to Ice no longer existing, and Ice no longer existing ruins most of Water's offensive potential due to Ice Beam no longer being a coverage move. Their offensive presence it further nerfed by the removal of Rock- and especially Ground-type Pokemon to hit super effectively.


Bit of a specific nerf, but its classic Acid Armor Calm Mind Stored Power Recover set (is that still a thing? or was that just a Gen 7 thing?) no longer works due to Dark-types now clearing Toxic Spikes and being immune to poison. It also loses Shadow Ball and Signal Beam (if it's back in Gen 9) as coverage against opposing Psychics.

 

[KaenSoul]

Too Many Choices​

Apologies for the silly name, but it's probably true - in this meta, you'd make 4 sets for each Pokemon on your team, and then in Team Preview, you get to choose which set you use for each mon. I really have no idea what would be good or not, but you could have vastly different sets on Pokemon with different roles, so it'd make it interesting.

I imagine this would work similar to Pick-Your-Team on team preview, with the only problem being the need of using Boxes to team build.
The meta could look similar to current gen OU at first, but with the freedom of choosing the right coverage moves and items for every situation, so it should be way more aggressive as this open up more options for offensive teams than for defensive ones.
The obvious winner should be Mew and other Pokémon with plethora of viable sets like Clefable and Landorus-T, but those that previously had to choose their checks can get away with choosing every move now, like Blaziken.

Condensed TypinG sounds more like a pet mod to me.

The simple rule is that "every instance of X-Type become Y-Type in every Pokémon, move, ability, item or unique mechanic.", it may look long when you list every type though. It stays consistent and should still be allowed despite the changes in policy over the years, but is up to our bosses to decide.

Now another interesting mon

The ice moth becomes Water/Grass, and thanks to that it has no weakness and gets a nice STAB Giga Drain to stay healthy with its bulky sets, sadly it still has no coverage (now limited to Normal Hurricane and Psychic Dazzling Gleam) and is now walled by opposite Grass-Types.

 

[urkerab]

Bug is now grass, that means Grassy Terrain boosted U-turn, huge boost for Rilla, and Volturn teams in general as no ground means you need volt absorb or similar to stop a chain.

So presumably Sap Sipper would absorb U-turn, assuming that anything viable had it?

 

[Cratersmash]

Becoming part Psychic lets Blacephalon make use of Psyshock and Stored Power. It also has perfect neutral coverage. A lot of Pokemon are going to be having perfect neutral coverage, it feels like. Blacephalon also gets Fighting coverage in the form of Rock Blast, though since Tyranitar no longer resists Fighting and Blissey can be broken through with Psychic STAB it's not really needed anymore.

If you for some reason want more power on Blace, you could even run Expanding Force with PsyTerrain support!

Are Dark types a thing? Yes. Is a 140 BP STAB coming off of +2 base 134 SpAtk also a thing? Yes.

 

[KaenSoul]

So presumably Sap Sipper would absorb U-turn, assuming that anything viable had it?

Yeah! As Bug now becomes Grass it has every interaction from it, if Miltank would ever become viable here it would block U-turn.
Didn't really think too hard on Sap Sipper before, Goodra may actually have niche here, and who knows they may actually add some new Sap Sipper users.