Metagame Workshop

Hidden Type was only tolerable because in gen 6 the teambuilder could set Hidden Power IVs for you and you didn't have to worry about remembering it. I recommend doing whatever it takes to avoid needing to use Hidden Power IVs.

The idea of tying the effects to moves of the same type sounds fine, though like you I hesitate to give a 100% burning attack to every mon that can run a Fire move. Perhaps it could be implemented to only apply to the first moveslot (i.e. that Clefable set you posted would clear status with Moonblast, but the other moves function normally; to let it burn stuff, you would need to put Flamethrower in the first slot).

Another option could be to slot in the name of an Eevee move as your ability, and then have all damaging moves create that effect. This seems fair on paper, since stuff like "paralyzes the foe with every attack" and "each attack heals you for 50% of damage dealt" sound like abilities to me, and there would be a material cost to exploiting Eevee moves, and hence adds some strategic depth. However, this could possibly be too spammable: If every move paralyzes the target, then you don't need to think too hard about which attack to click. And that's not great.

The most restrictive, yet hardest to make unbalanced, would be to combine the two ideas: By replacing its ability with an Eevee move, a mon adds that move's effect to the attack in their first moveslot. OR, by replacing its ability with an Eevee move, a mon adds that effect to all moves of that type. The second way will at least guarantee you that you don't need to pivot your Electric-type into a Buzzy Buzzified Earthquake, or Ferrothorn into a Sappy Seedified Flamethrower.

But yeah if the central mechanic can be nailed down and made (relatively) balanced, this seems like it could be a really fun meta. Without the need to use non-damaging attacks to access special effects, offensive teams get access to utility they could only dream of otherwise, while bulky teams can apply offensive pressure in ways they couldn't before.
I think just the first moveslot might be too little, but the first two moveslots might work. I'm not sure about turning the moves into abilities, as I don't want it to end up where Pokemon would rather keep their abilities (Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Azumarill come to mind).

Here are some sample sets where the first two moveslots have Eevee move effects. I'm also going to make it so that Hidden Power counts as a Normal-type move, so you can't slap HP Fire on just any defensive mon to spread burns.




Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam
- Protect

Does what Celesteela normally does, but now with burns and untauntable Leech Seed.




Azelf @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock / U-turn
- Explosion / U-turn

A dual screens suicide lead to facilitate some of the scary setup sweepers in this list.




Azumarill @ Normalium Z
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Belly Drum

Physical attackers blessed with Play Rough have the ability to cure their own burns. The health drain from Aqua Jet helps heal the Belly Drum damage.




Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Toxic
- Sticky Web

Alternatively, don’t get burned in the first place.




Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect

VinCune, now ever harder to kill! Tanky water types are already pretty good, and the health drain makes them even tankier.




Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip / Seed Bomb
- Knock Off / Thunderbolt
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball / Knock Off

Grass attacks automatically having the Leech Seed effect means Ferrothorn is freed up a move slot.




Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs / Magnet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Ball
- Dazzling Gleam / Volt Switch
- U-turn
- Volt Switch / Dazzling Gleam

Koko’s blistering speed plus inflicting paralysis means that Electro Ball might finally see some use. Immunity to opposing paralysis is also nice.




Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness / Scald / Surf
- Defog
- Taunt

With all the status running around, Tapu Fini can protect your team with Misty Terrain and Moonblast.

Yeah, I think I like having it be the first two moveslots. It lets you stack multiple effects while still adding some depth by having you decide what two effects to have.

EDIT: Also, since it no longer has to do with Hidden Power, I'm changing the name to Eeveemons. That's a much better name.
 
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I came up with this meta in my sleep. Not sure if it's actually a Pet Mod, and I haven't come up with a good name for it yet. Without further ado, let me present

Hidden Eevee Mons

Inspired by Eevee's special moves in Pokemon Let's Go, Hidden Power has a secondary effect based on what type it is.

Water- Heals 50% of the damage dealt
Fire- Burns the target
Electric- Paralyzes the target
Grass- Inflicts Leech Seed on the target
Psychic- Sets up Light Screen
Dark- Sets up Reflect WTF Game Freak? You have the type with the the coolest effects, and waste it on Reflect?
Ice- Eliminates all stat changes
Flying- Sets up Tailwind
Poison- Badly Poisons the target OR sets up Toxic Spikes
Ghost- Confuses the target OR inflicts Curse on the opponent
Bug- Sets up Sticky Web OR traps the target OR lowers the target's speed by 2 stages
Rock- Sets up Stealth Rocks OR grounds the target
Ground- Sets up Spikes OR traps the target OR lowers the target's speed by 1 stage
Fighting- Raises the user's Attack and Special Attack by 1 stage
Dragon- Raises the user's Speed by 1 stage
Steel- Raises the user's Defense and Special Defense by 1 stage


Here's a sample set featuring, who else, Volcarona:


Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Bug Buzz
- Roost

This variation on Bulkarona trades power on its Fire STAB for the ability to cripple physical attacks, helping it to set up on even more Pokemon.

In general, I predict special attackers and defensive mons to benefit the most from the changes in this meta.

Questions:
  • Can anyone think of a better name?
  • To make it less like a Pet Mod, should only the Hidden Powers that correspond with the Eeveelution types get special effects? Like, HP Fire would burn the opponent, but HP Flying wouldn't set up Tailwind.
  • If it does get limited to just the Eeveelution types, should the effects be applied to all attacks of that type? All Fire attacks would burn the opponent, all Fairy attacks would cure your team's status conditions, etc.
Klefki oh god kelfki why
 

xapx

formerly XxAwesomePlayzxX
I am almost certain that this was a meta that was made and actually was an OMotM back in gen 6, or even gen 5.


I don't remember how it went in execution, but in theory it's not the worst.

Also, your "potential bans" can more so be like "banned for everything expect original users," much like Mix and Mega still lets Mawhile hold its mega stone, but nothing else. That way the niche users of Shell Smash or Tail Glow can still be used if needed.

As far as actual bans, why Sub? Lol is it because it blocks status attacks? Thats not really going to be an issue. The meta is going to no doubt be based on the new potential set up sweepers, and the new toys that walls now get to play with. For a decent but probably incomplete list, ban: Geomancy, Shift Gear, Quiver Dance, Belly Drum, Tail Glow, and Copycat (Copycat + Whirlwind effect tends to be game breaking). Maybe ban: moves that have a Z move that increase each stat (Celebrate, ect.), Electrify, Spore, Strength Sap, and Prankster.

Set up sweepers still have DD, Coil, Nasty Plot, Agility, and SD to take advantage of, while walls can have any recovery move they want (preferably Strength Sap if it isn't banned), status in Wisp/Twave, Leech Seed, Heal Bell, and even better protect moves in Baneful Bunker, Kings Shield, or Spiky Shield. Of course hazards can be everywhere, but then so can be defog. Minor influences can be seen with Topsy Turvy / Heart Swap on Unaware mons, Trick Room on anything, and of course Taunt on anything for stall breaking and generally shutting down all these new status users.

Potential Sets:

Hawlucha @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web / Spikes
- High Jump Kick / Memento

The fastest mold breaker there is, can easily guarantee a hazard like SR or webs. Taunt helps it be an anti lead, and you can either route for HJK and damage, or Memento to prevent Rapid Spin and make the target set up fodder.

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Waterium Z / Darkium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken

Dual STAB Ash Gren can abuse Nasty Plot and then a Z move to tear through most mons and secure the Battle Bond transformation. From there, Dark Pulse and Water Shuriken might be all you need with the right team support. Note that the right Z move at +2 makes all the difference to some of the would-be ash-gren checks (calcs are before transformation):
+2 252 SpA Greninja Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 249-294 (82.1 - 97%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 267-315 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252 SpA Greninja Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 363-427 (85.4 - 100.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 204-241 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Leech Seed
- King's Shield / Recover
- Topsy-Turvy / Spikes / Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes / Defog

I seriously think Recover can be optional when you have Black Sludge + Leech Seed + Regenerator all to get health back. You're a special tank, but then Kings Shield can help with Physical Attackers. Then you got Topsy Turvy to really upset set up sweepers, or you can include your choice of hazards somewhere in the mix.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Taunt / Ice Shard

Mamo's Ground/Ice STABs are really, really good in an OU based meta. Giving it SD lets it be a total wall breaker, and with Adamant LO not even Unaware walls are likely to be safe. There's also the possibility of running Taunt to secure those KOs on walls, and prevent them from going for Wisp or Leech. Otherwise, Ice Shard of course works great.
Hi thanks for your reply. Those are really nice potential sets and the current “banlist” seems solid!

It seems to me the tier is centralized around certain playstyles, like hazards stacking and setup, and having stally Unaware mons are pretty good in terms of checking setup.

How would it be possible to make this a potential OM?
 
Hi thanks for your reply. Those are really nice potential sets and the current “banlist” seems solid!

It seems to me the tier is centralized around certain playstyles, like hazards stacking and setup, and having stally Unaware mons are pretty good in terms of checking setup.

How would it be possible to make this a potential OM?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rules-general-information.3587440/#post-7104234
Read the posts here to enter the stat submission!

Essentially there isn't a "Statusmon" or commonly submitted OM, and the premise is so simple so I think it can work fine. The only problem is that it might fall in between many similar OMs we have that increase movepools. It is still no doubt unique (from my digging around at least), but what I'm saying is that the "movepool increasing meta" might be a bit overplayed at this point. But who knows! This meta also falls under the "no bars" catagory, in that everything get buffs with no tradeoffs or stipulations, like STABmons or AAA. That's not a bad thing, just explaining that it totally be a power creep meta for sure.

When writing the submission post though I do recommend creating more sample sets / teams, and painting a picture of how you envision the meta will become. It helps to sell the idea of how things will play out, to hopefully inspire the council to want to play this meta itself. I can write a little of my own to help, but then its on you to be convincing. Good luck!

(teams are in consideration with the bans / potential bans, so no Prankster or Z-Forrest Curse):
Hawlucha @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- High Jump Kick
- Memento

Kartana @ Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Glare
- Horn Leech
- Superpower

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Topsy-Turvy

Zygarde @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Shore Up
- Thousand Arrows

Magnezone @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Here's a simple HO team I tried. Revolves around Hawlucha as that fast Mold Breaker with Taunt, SR, and Memento as the start. Then there's some cool sets here like Glare Bulu or Taunt stall breaking Zygarde, that can bait for a weaker HP Ice and sweep anything with just Thousand Arrows and Taunt alone, and of course Shore Up when you need recovery. The coolest set here is double dance Magnezone. Essentially, because you can trap Steel types, you can set up on Steel types that can't touch you, while they cant sweep. It's worth noting that even Chancey get's 2HKOd at +6. And again that can be reasonable because of this trapping effect, much like how in gen 6 Gothitelle would trap and set up. Obviously it's much more limited, and even among Steel types it isn't safe to set up on all of them (Heatran, Exca, Fightium Z / Volt Magearna, Whirlwind Skarm, U-Turn Scizor). Hell, every OU steel mon can put up a fight, but in an end game situation, guaranteeing the Agility or Nasty Plot might be all you need.


Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shore Up
- Knock Off
- Foul Play

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Shore Up
- Moonblast
- Defog

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shore Up
- Taunt
- Seismic Toss
- Counter

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Heart Swap
- Scald
- Earthquake

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shore Up
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes
- Heavy Slam

Now stall building isn't my forte, but I think I did decent here. Essentially, the gimmick here is that Shore Up can replace all other recover clones, as it's always a 50% recovery at least, but then it's a 66.7% in sand. So, Hippowdown can share the sand and extra recovery to all the team, cause why not? Only Mega Sabeleye and Chancey are buffeted by the sand, but event the the extra health Shore Up more than makes up from the small chip. Unaware is of course extremely valuable in a meta where everything can set up (as well as the lack of other potential failsafes like Prankster Haze), so I used Quag. Heart Swap can then make Quag a reverse sweeper on either end with EQ or Scald, if it swaps an SD or NP or whatever of course. Pretty cool! The other invaluable mon here is Mega Sabeleye, as of course status attacks and hazards can be everywhere, so it's great to have a switch in. But even furthermore, it's good to have something that can block and send back Taunt, as stall totally takes a hit in this meta thanks to Taunt being available to everything.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Scald
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- King's Shield
- Leech Seed
- Shore Up
- Gyro Ball

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Nasty Plot

Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Shore Up
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp

Just a nasty rain team, give or take. Peliper can be an even better support with SR, Kings Shield + Leech Seed + Shore Up special def Ferro, Taunt NP Torn, SD mega Swamp, NP Waterium Z wallbreaking Ash-Gren, and Wisp Zapdos. Lol this whole team is a ton of fun and shows off the meta well I believe, and no doubt can be successful. At +2 and in rain, that Hydro Vortex is a monster on Gren, and Taunt with NP on Torn can hurt everything stall has to offer. You could even go full stall breaker with Roost instead of NP if you wanted, and it's worth noting most mons cant stomach an unboosted LO Hurricane anyways.


Hope you like the teams, and again good luck with the submission!
 
0 EVO Restrictions
Just a metagame idea that I wanted to put out there, as it seems pretty unique and pretty fun. An OM I probably won't submit but, I did want other people's thoughts on.

The Idea - Every Pokemon no longer has restrictions on their movepools or abilities. Any evolutionary pokemon can use all abilities and moves that other forms (including alolan), and other stages (including megas) have/learn. Not only that but, mega & form pokemon are not restricted by mega stones or whatever causes activation, and can hold items while being a seperate pokemon. So, Pikachu can use Surf, Nasty Plot, and Extreme Speed while having the ability Surge Surfer. This will be an OU based metagame.
This is an idea I want to bring back. It seems this idea was liked more than my other ideas. There are a few changes that I've made that I hope y'all will enjoy.

The Idea - Every NFE Pokemon can use any move and ability from their evolution chain (including megas, forms, and whatever else that has to do with evolution). This could make things very interesting for pre-evolutions as a lot of them have shallow movepools (cosmoem) and lack good coverage. I was thinking of having this be a NFE based metagame.
Bans will remain the same as the current NFE bans. Including the ban on baton pass, arena trap, protean, and shadow tag.
Potential threats - Pidgeotto, inheriting Pidgeot's movepool & Mega Pidgeot's ability could be very annoying to check defensively. Cosmoem, inheriting recovery in roost and getting access to toxic could make it hard to break.
Questions for the Community: What are some sets could y'all see be popular in this metagame? Is there anything that might seem overpowered? Is there any problems with this premise? Should LC mons be included?
 
Something that quite saddens me not to have as a playable format is budget team building. These are made up numbers but for example you could start with something like 500 points and spend 300 on a Darkrai, leaving you with not much else and resorting to spend like 70 on a Wartortle etc. You wouldn't ever ban anything out since the format can constantly be rebalanced in case something too dominant, just increase the cost to have that pokemon on your team.
 
Something that quite saddens me not to have as a playable format is budget team building. These are made up numbers but for example you could start with something like 500 points and spend 300 on a Darkrai, leaving you with not much else and resorting to spend like 70 on a Wartortle etc. You wouldn't ever ban anything out since the format can constantly be rebalanced in case something too dominant, just increase the cost to have that pokemon on your team.
I've had and supported ideas of a Budget mon scheme. I thought it be cool to build with one of each mon being legal in each tier; one from each of Uber/OU/UU/RU/NU/PU. But, for whatever the broader reason, the consul doesn't agree with them. There's Tier Shift, but not much else, nor have I heard of anything else being accepted. I'm not sure why.

Also with your point system, you have to make it unbiased, and thus based off something like BST or a tier list. You cant just make, say, an OP pick more points than others in its same tier or category. That type of subjectivity makes it a pet mod.
 
Cause this forum has been dead for the while, figured I’d add an idea thats just so so to just add a little content.

Harvest Sun and Moon

Premise: At the end of the turn, and if the Pokemon has no item, the last held item that Pokemon has is restored.

Essentially not much changes, but I’ll give a quick rundown of viabilty:

Increassed Viability
-Berries of all kind, but to be specific
•Lum Berry: Lifetime immunity to status. Great for both walls weak to Toxic, and phsyical attackers weak to burn / para. More importantly, every mon can have perfect recovery with an even better Resto Chesto strat. Honestly may just have to ban either Rest, Lum Berry, or Lum Berry + Chesto Berry.
•Aguave Berry and clones: Getting half your health back when ever you get below 25% is a huge risk/reward. Can be seen on x4 weak to rock mons like Volc to get the health back and still have recovery down the line. And with a fast subsitute, you can just spam sub and get health back; nasty for Toxic stalling. Obviously its risky to get that low on most mons, and leftovers is still gonna be the choice for a lot of walls. That, or:
•Sitrus Berry: A less effective Aguave berry, but at a more realistic threshold. Might favor mons with already good recovery options but fear being 2HKOd, like Pex or Torn-T.
•Weakness berries: Having a constant reduction to one of your weaknesses is never a bad idea. Chopple Berry Ferro or Heatran are cool concepts.
•Stat raising berries: Because of the low health activation rates, this berries can be hard to pull off without Sub. But, the big reward here is that once you Sub to 25%, it’ll activate, then activate again at the end of the turn. Thats a big buff, as you can double any stat you want (or risk Starf Berry for even bigger gains). Furthermore, at the end of the following turns, you’ll keep getting boosts (so long as you stay at the low health ranges).
•Custap Berry: Soon to be released, follows the same pattern as the stat raising berries. Or, Endure + priority Reversal anyone?
-Susitute: Because of the berry spamming potential
-Gluttony: ^^
-Red Card: Repeated phasing is broken for a ton of reasons, and sounds like it should be banned. If not, Red Card no doubt will be centralizing in this meta.
-Ejet Button: Why would you want to continuously be forced out? Well, on a regenerator mon like Pex, you can always have a safe pivot and then recover most/all of the damage. Also great for Magnet Pull/Pursuit trapping to get the safe switch in.
-Power Herb and Two Turned Moves: Infinite Power Herb makes these charged moves more viable. Kyruem black has a reliable physical Ice stab, and finally Aerodactyle can have a flying stab with Sky Attack. However, these are at the cost of your item slot, so no z move or mega stone.
-Air Balloon: Just a ground immunity lol. Skrew Shucca Mag, use this instead for a great Lando switch in.
-Terrian Seeds: Awesome for the Tapus. Koko can be a fast defensive wall, Bulu an unstoppable defensive wall, Lele finally has a some utility to come into special attackers like Ash Gren or even Heatran safely, and Fini is of course an unstoppable special pivot. Otherwise, you could try other mons, but they don’t have that longevity or independence like the Tapu mons.
-Fling: Reliable Dark coverage if needed, or the ability to burn/para. Razor Fang and Kings Rock gotta be banned cause infinite flinches if faster lol.
-Normal Gem: Not really a great item still, but its alright.
-Weakness Policy: Unlikely you’ll get it off twice, but cool nontheless
-Knock Off: Constant damage buff.
-Trick: Lot of mons here and sets are item dependent. Cause Knock Off no longer gets rid of their item for good, Trick/Switcheroo can shut down a lot of sets.
-Natural Gift: Great for coverage on the mons that get it.

Decreased Viability:
-Unburden Sweepers: They always get their item back, limiting their sweep. However, if say Electric Terrian is kept up, the Electric Seed will continue to spawn in and activte, meaning you can have the speed so long as the terrian is up, and even better defense each turn it is.
-Knock Off: Yeah it’s always gonna be full strength, but no item removal utility.


I’ll probably edit with som sets later. Currently at gym so I’m sorry for any oversights / mispelling.

Questions: I’m not too stellar about the meta, but I think it’s a decent idea. Just feels too much like OU-plus, if you get what I’m saying. Any ideas to make it better?
This is literally just recyclemons is it not?
 
Just did my research, there’s a gen6 meta called Recyclables with pretty much the exact same premise.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/recyclables.3581818/

I should really check out more gen6 metas! I wish the current OM Index and Info thread mentioned them, so people don’t accidently repeat them.
Actually, i am trying to do that! I would need some help of course but i am trying to make a thread mentioning all current OMs, and where to play them
 

Frostbiyt

Not Exactly Helping
is a Pre-Contributor
So there's an idea I've had for a while for a metagame, it's not a super exciting meta that makes huge changes to how the game works, but something I think would be worth trying out to see how it goes. I'm not super satisfied with the name, but my metagame idea is:

RNGLess
Premise: To reduce the influence of randomness in battles. What this means in particular would be discussed by the community to determine what is and is not acceptable randomness.
Potential bans and threats: None, this would be based on OU and wouldn't make any sweeping changes to how the game works right out of the gate and most likely would never introduce a change that drastically improves the power of any Pokemon.
Questions for the community: The main thing I would like to know is just how interested people would be in this idea, I'm not really interested right now in people's specific ideas for how to remove RNG, this is something I think would be more appropriate to discuss when/if this becomes a thing.

I discussed this a bit with G-Luke the other day and he says that this would have to be a pet mod to start out with and maybe it could be an OM if a short, simple set of rules could be established.
 
So there's an idea I've had for a while for a metagame, it's not a super exciting meta that makes huge changes to how the game works, but something I think would be worth trying out to see how it goes. I'm not super satisfied with the name, but my metagame idea is:

RNGLess
Premise: To reduce the influence of randomness in battles. What this means in particular would be discussed by the community to determine what is and is not acceptable randomness.
Potential bans and threats: None, this would be based on OU and wouldn't make any sweeping changes to how the game works right out of the gate and most likely would never introduce a change that drastically improves the power of any Pokemon.
Questions for the community: The main thing I would like to know is just how interested people would be in this idea, I'm not really interested right now in people's specific ideas for how to remove RNG, this is something I think would be more appropriate to discuss when/if this becomes a thing.

I discussed this a bit with G-Luke the other day and he says that this would have to be a pet mod to start out with and maybe it could be an OM if a short, simple set of rules could be established.
haxmons exists somewhere

EDIT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/haxmons-playable-on-aqua.3500287/

thats old though, so very outdated

another edit: imo though, if its codable, add things like psywave always hits 1.5x, max damage rolls every time, etc, magnitude always hits 150, etc.
 
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Frostbiyt

Not Exactly Helping
is a Pre-Contributor
haxmons exists somewhere

EDIT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/haxmons-playable-on-aqua.3500287/

thats old though, so very outdated

another edit: imo though, if its codable, add things like psywave always hits 1.5x, max damage rolls every time, etc, magnitude always hits 150, etc.
I did see that, I think the way they approached dealing with hax is very heavy handed and shakes the game up too much. Everything doing 50% more damage and ignoring defense boosts seems like it would lead to a much more offensive meta. My goal would be to reduce the random aspects without significantly affecting the game as a whole.
 
I did see that, I think the way they approached dealing with hax is very heavy handed and shakes the game up too much. Everything doing 50% more damage and ignoring defense boosts seems like it would lead to a much more offensive meta. My goal would be to reduce the random aspects without significantly affecting the game as a whole.
Changing the meta like this is probably going to be a pet mod rather than an OM, sadly. Your best bet is to stick with one or two mechanics, like say accuracy and secondary effects, and go from there.

You can say that every moves becomes perfectly accurate and loses their chance based secondary effects, but loses/gains BP for each 5% trade off. So Rock Slide would be perfectly accurate and no flinch chance, and then would lose 10 bp cause accuracy, but then +30 bp for the loss of flinch. So, a new total bp of 95.

Not saying this is how you’d do it, but just an option
 
Changing the meta like this is probably going to be a pet mod rather than an OM, sadly. Your best bet is to stick with one or two mechanics, like say accuracy and secondary effects, and go from there.

You can say that every moves becomes perfectly accurate and loses their chance based secondary effects, but loses/gains BP for each 5% trade off. So Rock Slide would be perfectly accurate and no flinch chance, and then would lose 10 bp cause accuracy, but then +30 bp for the loss of flinch. So, a new total bp of 95.

Not saying this is how you’d do it, but just an option

Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ground]

If I'm understanding you correctly, Fiery Dance now has 80+50=130 base power, and Bug Buzz has 90+10=100 base power.


Also, Dynamic Punch and Inferno now have 100-50+100=150 base power, while Zap Cannon has 120-50+100=170 base power.

EDIT: How would Sheer Force and No Guard interact with these changes?

EDIT 2: Forget Bug Buzz on Volcarona. Struggle Bug is where it's at. 50+100=150 base power.
 
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Frostbiyt

Not Exactly Helping
is a Pre-Contributor
Changing the meta like this is probably going to be a pet mod rather than an OM, sadly. Your best bet is to stick with one or two mechanics, like say accuracy and secondary effects, and go from there.

You can say that every moves becomes perfectly accurate and loses their chance based secondary effects, but loses/gains BP for each 5% trade off. So Rock Slide would be perfectly accurate and no flinch chance, and then would lose 10 bp cause accuracy, but then +30 bp for the loss of flinch. So, a new total bp of 95.

Not saying this is how you’d do it, but just an option
I'm fine with this being a Pet Mod if it needs to be, but like I said in my first post, my eventual goal would be to come up with a small set of rules that would hopefully allow it to become a regular OM. I think it would be beneficial though not to start out with specific rules in place, but with a blank slate where changes are made after discussing solutions for a given issue and their potential outcomes.
 
I'm fine with this being a Pet Mod if it needs to be, but like I said in my first post, my eventual goal would be to come up with a small set of rules that would hopefully allow it to become a regular OM. I think it would be beneficial though not to start out with specific rules in place, but with a blank slate where changes are made after discussing solutions for a given issue and their potential outcomes.
The problem with an OM that doesn't "significantly affect the game as a whole" is that it's kinda boring. It doesn't grab people's interests and spark them to start theorycrafting cool sets. The idea Ho3nConfirm3d came up with did just that. After an evening of looking through moves affected by Sheer Force, I think a meta where moves like Rock Tomb, Low Sweep, Mud Slap, and Fake Out trade their secondary effects for huge boosts in power sounds interesting.
 

Frostbiyt

Not Exactly Helping
is a Pre-Contributor
The problem with an OM that doesn't "significantly affect the game as a whole" is that it's kinda boring. It doesn't grab people's interests and spark them to start theorycrafting cool sets. The idea Ho3nConfirm3d came up with did just that. After an evening of looking through moves affected by Sheer Force, I think a meta where moves like Rock Tomb, Low Sweep, Mud Slap, and Fake Out trade their secondary effects for huge boosts in power sounds interesting.
"Hax" is probably the most common complaint about this game, I don't think the meta would need to make big flashy changes for people to be interested in playing.
 
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An idea for a meta that just popped randomly into my head.

Morph Mons (better name pending)

Concept: First 5 Pokemon in your party are "combined" to create a new sixth member. It's based on the position of your other 5 Pokemon in the party.

1st - Typing
2nd - Ability
3rd - Attack, SpAttack, Speed
4th - HP, Defense, SpDef
5th - Movepool (movepool limitations on the original Pokemon would still apply)

Ex.

1st Slot -Tapu Bulu
2nd Slot - Magnezone
3rd Slot - Diancie
4th Slot - Rotom-W
5th Slot - Landorus

6th Member would be a Grass/Fairy (Tapu Bulu) with Magnet Pull (Magnezone), stat spread of 50/100/107/100/107/50 (Diancie + Rotom-W) and could learn anything from Landorus's movepool.

Mega Pokemon wouldn't affect anything morphed into the new Pokemon, only the base form. (ex. Mega Diancie's Attack/SpAttack/Speed would not be given to the morphed Pokemon, only Base Diancie's would apply. Same goes for Typing and Ability).

Questions:

1. How should bans of clearly broken things (ex. morphing Huge/Pure Power + huge Attack stat together) be handled? Ban the morphers themselves (ex. Azumarill, Mega-Medicham, anything else with Huge/Pure Power) or just ban the combination?

2. Is this too similar to things like Inheritance/Follow the Leader/Godly Gift/etc.?

3. Is this codeable? My idea was that in the teambuilder you can pick any random Pokemon you want for the sixth slot and that would be the appearance of the morphed Pokemon. From there you would choose what item and moves you want to give to the new Pokemon.
 
An idea for a meta that just popped randomly into my head.

Morph Mons (better name pending)

Concept: First 5 Pokemon in your party are "combined" to create a new sixth member. It's based on the position of your other 5 Pokemon in the party.

1st - Typing
2nd - Ability
3rd - Attack, SpAttack, Speed
4th - HP, Defense, SpDef
5th - Movepool (movepool limitations on the original Pokemon would still apply)

Ex.

1st Slot -Tapu Bulu
2nd Slot - Magnezone
3rd Slot - Diancie
4th Slot - Rotom-W
5th Slot - Landorus

6th Member would be a Grass/Fairy (Tapu Bulu) with Magnet Pull (Magnezone), stat spread of 50/100/107/100/107/50 (Diancie + Rotom-W) and could learn anything from Landorus's movepool.

Mega Pokemon wouldn't affect anything morphed into the new Pokemon, only the base form. (ex. Mega Diancie's Attack/SpAttack/Speed would not be given to the morphed Pokemon, only Base Diancie's would apply. Same goes for Typing and Ability).

Questions:

1. How should bans of clearly broken things (ex. morphing Huge/Pure Power + huge Attack stat together) be handled? Ban the morphers themselves (ex. Azumarill, Mega-Medicham, anything else with Huge/Pure Power) or just ban the combination?

2. Is this too similar to things like Inheritance/Follow the Leader/Godly Gift/etc.?

3. Is this codeable? My idea was that in the teambuilder you can pick any random Pokemon you want for the sixth slot and that would be the appearance of the morphed Pokemon. From there you would choose what item and moves you want to give to the new Pokemon.
This sounds awfully similar to Chimera.
 
This sounds awfully similar to Chimera.
You're right, I honestly didn't even see Chimera when I was looking through current metas / assumed it would be completely different since it's based on 1v1. They're practically the same and it probably applies the concept a lot cleaner since it's only 1v1. Nevermind then.
 
Best Foot Forward (any name ideas?)

The premise of Best Foot Forward is fairly simple: Pokemon can replace one of their stats with their best stat, but by doing so they give up their held item. (HP is excluded) For example, in normal play, Stakataka has 211 Defense and 13 Speed. By giving up its held item, Stakataka could boost its Speed stat to 211.

Banlist: OU banlist. Nothing else for now, but we'll see what happens if it becomes playable.

Threatlist (some of these may become bans, but I'm reluctant to ban things before seeing what they are really like):

Kartana @ Speed
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike / Knock Off / Swords Dance / whatever

Kartana has 181 speed now. This is even better than Scarf Kartana.
You could also run Bulky Kartana, with 181 Special Defense.

Blissey @ Defense
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
Blissey is bulky all around.

Kyurem-Black @ Special Attack
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earth Power
Kyurem-B's Attack stat is finally useful.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Speed
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
This sounds crazy. It's sort of like a bulky Mega Alakazam with Nasty Plot and 770 BST.
If you have any suggestions, please let me know!
 
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Best Foot Forward (any name ideas?)

The premise of Best Foot Forward is fairly simple: Pokemon can replace one of their stats with their best stat, but by doing so they give up their held item. (HP is excluded) For example, in normal play, Stakataka has 211 Defense and 13 Speed. By giving up its held item, Stakataka could boost its Speed stat to 211.

Banlist: OU banlist. Nothing else for now, but we'll see what happens if it becomes playable.

Threatlist (some of these may become bans, but I'm reluctant to ban things before seeing what they are really like):

Kartana @ Speed
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike / Knock Off / Swords Dance / whatever

Kartana has 181 speed now. This is even better than Scarf Kartana.
You could also run Bulky Kartana, with 181 Special Defense.

Blissey @ Defense
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
Blissey is bulky all around.

Kyurem-Black @ Special Attack
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earth Power
Kyurem-B's Attack stat is finally useful.

If you have any suggestions, please let me know!

Volcarona @ Defense
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Now Volc can actually set up on physical attackers.



Stakataka @ Attack
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Superpower / Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Trick Room

Making Stakataka fast is scary, but it loses some power by trading Gyro Ball for Heavy Slam.



Shuckle @ Speed
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Sticky Web
- Final Gambit

The problem with Shuckle as a suicide lead is that its slow speed makes it exploitable. Now it's the fastest suicide lead around.




Shuckle @ Attack
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Shell Smash

Alternatively, you can make Shuckle monstrously strong, although it's still really slow.
 
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Best Foot Forward (any name ideas?)

The premise of Best Foot Forward is fairly simple: Pokemon can replace one of their stats with their best stat, but by doing so they give up their held item. (HP is excluded) For example, in normal play, Stakataka has 211 Defense and 13 Speed. By giving up its held item, Stakataka could boost its Speed stat to 211.

Banlist: OU banlist. Nothing else for now, but we'll see what happens if it becomes playable.

Threatlist (some of these may become bans, but I'm reluctant to ban things before seeing what they are really like):

Kartana @ Speed
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike / Knock Off / Swords Dance / whatever

Kartana has 181 speed now. This is even better than Scarf Kartana.
You could also run Bulky Kartana, with 181 Special Defense.

Blissey @ Defense
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
Blissey is bulky all around.

Kyurem-Black @ Special Attack
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earth Power
Kyurem-B's Attack stat is finally useful.

If you have any suggestions, please let me know!
Min-Max Mons? lol

Some ideas, with the highest stat listed:
  • Rampardos @ Speed Attack 165
  • Guzzlord @ Attack / Defense / Special Defense HP 223
  • Alomomola @ Defense / Special Defense HP 165
  • Snorlax @ Defense / Speed HP 160
  • Hariyama @ Defense / Special Defense / Speed HP 144
  • Hoopa-Unbound @ Speed Special Attack 170
  • Landorus-Therian @ Defense / Special Defense / Speed Attack 145
  • Rhyperior @ Special Defense / Speed Attack 140
  • Conkeldurr @ Special Defense / Speed Attack 140
Since this can go on forever I'm just going to list some threats and be less specific:

Buzzwole, Salamence, Metagross, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Crabominable, Dhelmise, Breloom, Garchomp, Mamoswine, [insert Tapu], Terrakion, Keldeo, Blacephalon, Gyarados, Bisharp, Bewear, Golisopod, Crawdaunt, Steelix, Avalugg, Cloyster, Toxapex, Registeel, Cofagrigus, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Pyukumuku, Kommo-o, Zygarde, Xurkitree, Chandelure, Thundurus-Therian, Porygon-Z, Espeon, Magnezone, Heatran, Volcanion, Magearna, Nihilego, Primarina, Zapdos, Reuniclus, Hydreigon, Latios, Latias, Goodra, Celesteela, Rotom, Florges, Mantine, Umbreon, Cresselia, Sylveon, Suicune, Jellicent, Mimikyu, Alolan Muk, Zeraora, Crobat, Talonflame, Ribombee, Tornadus-Therian

The bolded stuff is what I think will be or might be broken.

I assume megas can't make use of this change.
 

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