Metagame Workshop

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon
since i already have two metas, im not planning on submitting this, but if anyone else wants to try have at it

Spiritmons

If you have played Smash Ultimate, you have surely heard of or played the new Spirits Mode that was added in. This meta attempts to replicate that in Pokemon. By replacing your held item slot with the name of another Pokemon, your base stats will be replaced with that pokemon's stats, and you will be allowed to use two moves from that Pokemon. The Spirit that the pokemon is holding is revealed upon switch-in, but your new moves are not. You can harness a Spirit of any Non-Uber (with some exceptions), non form change pokemon. Spirits can't be knocked off, and you also can't use any item alongside your Spirit.

Premise: Pokemon can put the name of a Pokemon (not a mega evolution or changed form) in their item slot to gain their Base Stats and Two Moves from their movepool.

Possible Banlist
OU Banlist and clauses
As a Pokemon: Shedinja (idk if HP would still be hardcoded to 1 or not, that decides it)
As a Spirit: Blissey, Chansey, Slaking, Regigigas, Kartana, Kyurem-Black, Zygarde
From Ubers: Aegislash, Blaziken, Naganadel, Shaymin-Sky would all be usable due to their low stats

Threatlist

Sylveon/Aurorus/Golem-Alola: The only -ate users that can use a spirit. now their low stats can be patched up and they can inherit strong moves like Boomburst and Extreme Speed

Questions for the community:
  • How would Ability-Based form changes, like Shields Down and Battle Bond, work? Would they just turn into the regular forms, or would their stats due to the spirits be changed in the same way as the form change?
  • Would Shedinja's HP stat remain the same when holding a spirit?
Just like with the spirits in Smash Ultimate, the possibilities are nearly endless.
 
since i already have two metas, im not planning on submitting this, but if anyone else wants to try have at it

Spiritmons

If you have played Smash Ultimate, you have surely heard of or played the new Spirits Mode that was added in. This meta attempts to replicate that in Pokemon. By replacing your held item slot with the name of another Pokemon, your base stats will be replaced with that pokemon's stats, and you will be allowed to use two moves from that Pokemon. The Spirit that the pokemon is holding is revealed upon switch-in, but your new moves are not. You can harness a Spirit of any Non-Uber (with some exceptions), non form change pokemon. Spirits can't be knocked off, and you also can't use any item alongside your Spirit.

Premise: Pokemon can put the name of a Pokemon (not a mega evolution or changed form) in their item slot to gain their Base Stats and Two Moves from their movepool.

Possible Banlist
OU Banlist and clauses
As a Pokemon: Shedinja (idk if HP would still be hardcoded to 1 or not, that decides it)
As a Spirit: Blissey, Chansey, Slaking, Regigigas, Kartana, Kyurem-Black, Zygarde
From Ubers: Aegislash, Blaziken, Naganadel, Shaymin-Sky would all be usable due to their low stats

Threatlist

Sylveon/Aurorus/Golem-Alola: The only -ate users that can use a spirit. now their low stats can be patched up and they can inherit strong moves like Boomburst and Extreme Speed

Questions for the community:
  • How would Ability-Based form changes, like Shields Down and Battle Bond, work? Would they just turn into the regular forms, or would their stats due to the spirits be changed in the same way as the form change?
  • Would Shedinja's HP stat remain the same when holding a spirit?
Just like with the spirits in Smash Ultimate, the possibilities are nearly endless.
The premise just screams as an Inheritance knock off. And thats not a bad thing in it of itself, because I totally think that the donating gimmick can be done in many more ways than just what we have with Inheritance. But I'm just not a fan of how this variation turned, and more so I think that the "Spirit" mechanic should be more of an upgrade instead of an entire base stat swap.

Going foward with this OM, I think the premise should be revised so that the holder of the Spirit still retains most of its original identity, and only gains from holding the Spirit.

One way I thought of changing the premise is: "Pokeman can be placed in the item slot as Spirits, and the Spirits donate their highest base stat(s) and one of their moves." It isn't my favorite, but just a thought. I really want to see more Inheritance like metas!!!

To explain this further:
-The highest base stat of the Spirit replaces the holder's base stat. So a Mew @ Exadrill changes Mew's attack of 100 to Exadrill's base 135.
-If the Spirit has ties for its highest base stats, then all of those base stats will replace the holders.
-The holder does not need to use one of the Spirit's moves; it is just an option.
-Like Inheritance, the Spirit is shown off to the opponent, and cannot be knocked off /tricked /ect.

OU banlist then:
Bans as Spirits: Megas and other form changes, any mon with a highest base stat greater than 140, Smeargal, Uxie, Dusknoir, Pyuk, probably more.
Other bans: Huge Power, Pure Power, Smeargal, Chancey/Blissey, probably more.

Few sets that show the potential of the meta:

Snorlax @ Skarmory
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost / Stealth Rock
- Curse / Whirlwind
- Body Slam
- Earthquake

Just a really bulky mon, as it gets a base 140 Defense stat, and either recovery or hazards. Not perfect, just a really good example.

Serperior @ Volcarona
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Glare

Base 135 special attack AND Overeat for Serp. Lol thats insane.

Zygarde @ Buzzwole
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows

Zygarde gets both of Buzz's base 139 Attack and Defense, making it much stronger and a bit more physically bulky. This set has Taunt so it can try to be a wall breaker, but bulkier sets could try Roost for recovery.

Numel @ Mew
Ability: Simple
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Flame Charge / Ancient Power

Mew as a Spirit is crazy because it not only donates the on par base 100 stats across the board, but also one of its many set up / coverage moves. Numel is just a cool example, as Simple lets it get to +4 after one Nasty Plot.

Other cool spirits: Raiku donates 115 special attack and speed, Dodrio donates 110 attack and speed + Swords Dance, Type: Null could donate 95 everything BUT speed if you want a faster and now bulkier holder like Koko or Torn-T, Meloetta donates 128 specials attack and special defense, base 130 speed mons are the fastest speed a Spirit can donate, Azelf donates 125 attacking stats, Scrafty donates 115 defenses (Uxie and others I think are ban worthy),
 
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I'm thinking not. IMHO, it would make things too broken. And Blissey is just 255/135/135, (replacing Def with SpD)
Yes, HP changes are hard to code in PS.

Best Foot Forward (any name ideas?)

The premise of Best Foot Forward is fairly simple: Pokemon can replace one of their stats with their best stat, but by doing so they give up their held item. (HP is excluded) For example, in normal play, Stakataka has 211 Defense and 13 Speed. By giving up its held item, Stakataka could boost its Speed stat to 211.

Banlist: OU banlist. Nothing else for now, but we'll see what happens if it becomes playable.

Threatlist (some of these may become bans, but I'm reluctant to ban things before seeing what they are really like):

Kartana @ Speed
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike / Knock Off / Swords Dance / whatever

Kartana has 181 speed now. This is even better than Scarf Kartana.
You could also run Bulky Kartana, with 181 Special Defense.

Blissey @ Defense
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
Blissey is bulky all around.

Kyurem-Black @ Special Attack
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earth Power
Kyurem-B's Attack stat is finally useful.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Speed
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
This sounds crazy. It's sort of like a bulky Mega Alakazam with Nasty Plot and 770 BST.
If you have any suggestions, please let me know!
I have created a Pokemon Showdown server that this is playable on.
So if anyone would like to experiment (and talk about recommendations for quickbans!), please head on over to http://bff-server.herokuapp.com.
This might go down if I run out of free dyno hours though.
(My PS name is Annika0)

EDIT: Blacephalon and Hoopa-Unbound have been banned.
 
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Yes, HP changes are hard to code in PS.



I have created a Pokemon Showdown server that this is playable on.
So if anyone would like to experiment (and talk about recommendations for quickbans!), please head on over to http://bff-server.herokuapp.com.
This might go down if I run out of free dyno hours though.
(My PS name is Annika0)

EDIT: Blacephalon and Hoopa-Unbound have been banned.
I like the idea but I feel like any mon that is choosing to replace a bad stat with another stat that is 130+ is dangerous. I'd gladly give up mega and primal evolution to do that for any mon that has a stat that is 130+. It's like Assault Vest/Choice Items minus the inconvenience of choosing only one move or not being allowed to run status moves respectively.
 
I like the idea but I feel like any mon that is choosing to replace a bad stat with another stat that is 130+ is dangerous. I'd gladly give up mega and primal evolution to do that for any mon that has a stat that is 130+. It's like Assault Vest/Choice Items minus the inconvenience of choosing only one move or not being allowed to run status moves respectively.
I tested this out with LarTech for a little whiles.

Yeah, a lotta mons are no doubt broke, and what’s probably the scariest is stall. Now that things can be bulky on both ends or even bulky with speed / attack, it’s obscene. Totally worth the leftovers opertunity cost.

I would say though that not everything gets that big of a boost, but the more obvious ones are banable anyways. I would include Kartana, Xurkitree, and Blissey in the bans because of this. Overall I think the meta is going to have problems with stall, but it’s still probably manageable.

Here’s some cool sets:

Torkoal @ Speed
Ability: Drought
EVs: 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

With the new base 140 speed, all Torkoal needs is 52 EVs to outspeed max base 100 mons. That’s nice because the extra EVs can go into bulk to secure a Shell Smash. Torkoal now of course works as a great late game sweeper, and particularly doesn’t mind many forms of physical priority once it smashes.

Rampardos @ Speed
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Ice Beam

Base 165 speed is actually a tad bit underwhelming in this crazy meta, but Rampardos brings a great move pool to the table, so much so it doesn’t mind the lack of an item.

Some other quick sets: Shuckle @ Speed for the fastest rocks/webs, Shuckle @ Attack for a TR sweeper, Cloyster @ Attack for a great wallbreaker or late game Shell Smash sweeper, Aggron @ Speed for fast Rock Head Head Smashes, Skarm @ Special Defense for a wall, Torn t @ Defense for a fast physical pivot, Tangrowth @ Special Defense for a mixed defensive pivot, Regi rock/ice as physical/special heavy hitters that can Rock Polish, attack boosting TR Stakataka, Avalug @ Special Defense, Flogress / Mantine / Sylveon / Hoopa @ Defense, and shouts out to Araq @ Attack for a decent attacker.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Self-Improvement (Taking name suggestions)
Premise:
Pokémon inherit the best value from their evolution chain so far for each stat (e.g. Incineroar gains Torracat's Speed, Porygon-Z has Porygon-2's Defenses, Steelix has Onix's Speed, but Litten doesn't gain Torracat's Speed and Lycanroc-Midnight doesn't gain Lycanroc-Midday's Speed).

Finer details (these are subject to change with community feedback):
- Pokémon will only gain from previous evolutions, and not from alternate forms of their current stage e.g. Meteor Minior doesn't inherit stats from Core Minior or vice versas. (Especially considering changing this one for more options)
- Mega Evolutions are counted as evolutions.
- Pokémon won't gain stats from branched evolution paths e.g. Slowbro doesn't gain from Slowking or vice versas.

All even slightly important changes with current rules (lemme know if I missed any of course):
Mega Beedrill: 65/150/40/45/80/145
Poliwrath: 90/95/95/70/90/90
Politoed: 90/75/75/90/100/90
Magnezone: 70/70/115/130/90/70
Steelix: 75/85/200/55/65/70
Mega Steelix: 75/125/230/55/95/70 (nice)
Tangrowth: 100/100/125/110/50/60
Scizor: 70/130/100/55/80/105 (yikes)
Mega Scizor: 70/150/140/65/100/105 (double yikes)
Electivire: 75/123/67/95/85/105
Magmortar: 65/95/67/125/95/93
Porygon-Z: 85/80/90/135/95/90 (OKAY)
Mega Ampharos: 90/95/105/165/110/55
Honchkrow: 100/125/52/105/52/91
Mega Heracross: 80/185/115/40/105/85
Octillery: 75/105/75/105/75/65
Beautifly: 60/70/55/100/50/65
Pelipper: 60/50/100/95/70/85
Ninjask: 61/90/90/50/50/160
Shedinja HP and Defense buffs change nothing
Mega Sableye: 50/85/125/85/115/50
Mega Camerupt: 70/120/100/145/105/40
Armaldo: 75/125/100/70/80/75
Salamence: 95/135/100/110/80/100
Vespiquen: 70/80/102/80/102/70
Mega Garchomp: 108/170/115/120/95/102
Mega Abomasnow: 90/132/105/132/105/60
Leavanny: 75/103/90/70/80/92
Scolipede: 60/100/99/55/79/112
Crustle: 70/105/125/65/75/55
Escavalier: 70/135/105/60/105/60
Accelgor: 80/70/85/100/65/145
Volcarona: 85/85/65/135/105/100
Vivillon: 80/52/60/90/50/89
Mega Diancie: 50/160/150/160/150/110 (hahahahahahahahahahaha)
Incineroar: 95/115/90/80/90/90
Toucannon: 80/120/75/75/75/75
Vikavolt: 77/82/95/145/75/46
Crabominable: 97/132/77/62/67/63
Toxapex: 50/63/152/53/142/45
Mudsdale: 100/125/100/55/85/45
Golisopod: 75/125/140/60/90/80

Ubers changes (probably won't be relevant but these are pretty funny):
Mega Mewtwo Y: 106/150/90/194/120/140 (800 BST finally achieved)
Solgaleo: 137/137/131/113/131/97 (Not entirely outclassed anymore!)
Lunala: 137/113/131/137/131/97 (Bulkier than Lugia with Shadow Shield, 137 Sp.Atk and a 200 BP Z-Move, seems cool)

Threatlist:
Mega Scizor: Can run a variety of sets thanks to the Speed buff and outspeeds the slower meta without any investment.
Porygon-Z: The significant bulk increase improves all of Porygon-Z's sets, but most notably makes Z-Conversion much harder to kill.
Mega Diancie: Now ties for second highest BST (would be highest but Mega Mewtwo Y now has 800 BST), with its main weakness patched up effectively.

Questions:
- What are the winners and losers (if any losers) of this meta?
- Should Pokémon inherit stats from alternate in-battle forms, such as Zen Darmanitan, Pirouette Meloetta and Core Minior? If so, should it work both ways or should only the original / transformed form inherit?
- Should Mega Evolutions count as Evolutions like they currently do, or should they work differently (maybe gain as much as their base form did if applicable)?
- Does anything need banning? (Expecting people to say Mega Diancie)
- General thoughts?
 
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So I'm thinking that Regenerator should be banned.
Thoughts from the community?
You shouldn't ban Regenerator just because there are a few mons that really abuse it on Stall / Balance. I think that it's more so relative to say that this meta has more underlining problems with the amount of new crazy bulky walls then just Regenerator. I get that you see how banning it would disrupt cores and a few very good mons can be gone, but then the 2nd best option will just be picked and will still be very stallish and hard to break.

That being said, it’s hard to recommend where to go from there. Ultimately, don’t ban Regenerator though.

Self-Improvement (Taking name suggestions)
Premise:
Pokémon inherit the best value from their evolution chain so far for each stat (e.g. Incineroar gains Torracat's Speed, Porygon-Z has Porygon-2's Defenses, Steelix has Onix's Speed, but Litten doesn't gain Torracat's Speed and Lycanroc-Midnight doesn't gain Lycanroc-Midday's Speed).

Finer details (these are subject to change with community feedback):
- Pokémon will only gain from previous evolutions, and not from alternate forms of their current stage e.g. Meteor Minior doesn't inherit stats from Core Minior or vice versas. (Especially considering changing this one for more options)
- Mega Evolutions are counted as evolutions.
- Pokémon won't gain stats from branched evolution paths e.g. Slowbro doesn't gain from Slowking or vice versas.

All even slightly important changes with current rules (lemme know if I missed any of course):
Mega Beedrill: 65/150/40/45/80/145
Poliwrath: 90/95/95/70/90/90
Politoed: 90/75/75/90/100/90
Magnezone: 70/70/115/130/90/70
Steelix: 75/85/200/55/65/70
Mega Steelix: 75/125/230/55/95/70 (nice)
Tangrowth: 100/100/125/110/50/60
Scizor: 70/130/100/55/80/105 (yikes)
Mega Scizor: 70/150/140/65/100/105 (double yikes)
Electivire: 75/123/67/95/85/105
Magmortar: 65/95/67/125/95/93
Porygon-Z: 85/80/90/135/95/90 (OKAY)
Mega Ampharos: 90/95/105/165/110/55
Honchkrow: 100/125/52/105/52/91
Mega Heracross: 80/185/115/40/105/85
Octillery: 75/105/75/105/75/65
Pelipper: 60/50/100/95/70/85
Ninjask: 61/90/90/50/50/160
Shedinja HP and Defense buffs change nothing
Mega Sableye: 50/85/125/85/115/50
Mega Camerupt: 70/120/100/145/105/40
Armaldo: 75/125/100/70/80/75
Salamence: 95/135/100/110/80/100
Vespiquen: 70/80/102/80/102/70
Mega Garchomp: 108/170/115/120/95/102
Mega Abomasnow: 90/132/105/132/105/60
Leavanny: 75/103/90/70/80/92
Scolipede: 60/100/99/55/79/112
Crustle: 70/105/125/65/75/55
Escavalier: 70/135/105/60/105/60
Accelgor: 80/70/85/100/65/145
Volcarona: 85/85/65/135/105/100
Vivillon: 80/52/60/90/50/89
Mega Diancie: 50/160/150/160/150/110 (hahahahahahahahahahaha)
Incineroar: 95/115/90/80/90/90
Toucannon: 80/120/75/75/75/75
Vikavolt: 77/82/95/145/75/46
Crabominable: 97/132/77/62/67/63
Toxapex: 50/63/152/53/142/45
Mudsdale: 100/125/100/55/85/45
Golisopod: 75/125/140/60/90/80

Ubers changes (probably won't be relevant but these are pretty funny):
Mega Mewtwo Y: 106/150/90/194/120/140 (800 BST finally achieved)
Solgaleo: 137/137/131/113/131/97 (Not entirely outclassed anymore!)
Lunala: 137/113/131/137/131/97 (Bulkier than Lugia with Shadow Shield, 137 Sp.Atk and a 200 BP Z-Move, seems cool)

Threatlist:
Mega Scizor: Can run a variety of sets thanks to the Speed buff and outspeeds the slower meta without any investment.
Porygon-Z: The significant bulk increase improves all of Porygon-Z's sets, but most notably makes Z-Conversion much harder to kill.
Mega Diancie: Now ties for second highest BST (would be highest but Mega Mewtwo Y now has 800 BST), with its main weakness patched up effectively.

Questions:
- What are the winners and losers (if any losers) of this meta?
- Should Pokémon inherit stats from alternate in-battle forms, such as Zen Darmanitan, Pirouette Meloetta and Core Minior? If so, should it work both ways or should only the original / transformed form inherit?
- Should Mega Evolutions count as Evolutions like they currently do, or should they work differently (maybe gain as much as their base form did if applicable)?
- Does anything need banning? (Expecting people to say Mega Diancie)
- General thoughts?
So I counted 41 Pokemon (including megas) with new stat changes, 39 if you don’t count Shedninja and Mega Diance. Of those 39, I really only see about 12 mons here that can be OU viable, but 9 of those 12 are already ranked in OU as is. The 3 that might rise up are no doubt Mega Garchomp, and then maybe Electravire and Incineroar.

With a small portion of all Pokemon as a whole affected, and then only a portion of those affected Pokemon are likely to be fit for OU standards, I gotta ask; what’s the point for this meta? Yeah it’s cool to ask “what if,” but the ridiculously small set of meaningful changes makes this OM sound so boring and uninspiring.

If you are serious about making this a meta, why not try making it a pet mod. You can be more liberal with your changes and include maybe all fully invloved Pokemon to gain something more from their prevo, like accesses to previous abilities or even new moves. As is, the OM you’re suggesting is just too baren.
 
You shouldn't ban Regenerator just because there are a few mons that really abuse it on Stall / Balance. I think that it's more so relative to say that this meta has more underlining problems with the amount of new crazy bulky walls then just Regenerator. I get that you see how banning it would disrupt cores and a few very good mons can be gone, but then the 2nd best option will just be picked and will still be very stallish and hard to break.

That being said, it’s hard to recommend where to go from there. Ultimately, don’t ban Regenerator though.
Something should be done about stall though. Maybe just ban the worst abusers, like Toxapex and Tangrowth.

And Ezaphs, I feel like you're not shaking things up enough. Only a few Pokemon are changed enough to matter, and the biggest change, Diancie, will be OP and banned. Maybe add something new.
 
Something should be done about stall though. Maybe just ban the worst abusers, like Toxapex and Tangrowth.

And Ezaphs, I feel like you're not shaking things up enough. Only a few Pokemon are changed enough to matter, and the biggest change, Diancie, will be OP and banned. Maybe add something new.
When theres an entire gamestyle that is too powerful and centralizing, it’s hard to blame a single or even a handful of mons. That alone shouldn’t be a verdict for a ban. Look at gen 2. Stall is extremely good and centralizing, but that’s just how the meta turned out is all. Not much in terms of counterplay.

For your meta, just playtest it more. If there’s a singular threat that is unfairly winning stall teams, then ban it.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
So I counted 41 Pokemon (including megas) with new stat changes, 39 if you don’t count Shedninja and Mega Diance. Of those 39, I really only see about 12 mons here that can be OU viable, but 9 of those 12 are already ranked in OU as is. The 3 that might rise up are no doubt Mega Garchomp, and then maybe Electravire and Incineroar.

With a small portion of all Pokemon as a whole affected, and then only a portion of those affected Pokemon are likely to be fit for OU standards, I gotta ask; what’s the point for this meta? Yeah it’s cool to ask “what if,” but the ridiculously small set of meaningful changes makes this OM sound so boring and uninspiring.

If you are serious about making this a meta, why not try making it a pet mod. You can be more liberal with your changes and include maybe all fully invloved Pokemon to gain something more from their prevo, like accesses to previous abilities or even new moves. As is, the OM you’re suggesting is just too baren.
Thanks for the honest feedback. I definitely want to see how far this meta can be pushed in regards to inheriting from your own evolution line, so I'll try developing it further to make it less barren. Giving access to all prevolutions' abilities seems like a good start, and maybe also allowing Pokèmon to inherit from alternate forms or split evolutions. Those simple changes would add a lot (I've counted and 42 more Pokèmon are significantly affected just by inheriting abilities from previous evolutions). If anyone has other ideas on how to add more depth to this format let me know, but I'd rather keep it as an OM with generalized rules.

EDIT: had better idea, will update later
 
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I'll battle you if you want.
I gotta see if I have a team that's not crappy.
My PS name is Annika0
 
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Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Let's give Prevolution-based inheritance metas another go, this time with a more widely distributed effect!

Parental Bonds
Premise
: Ubers based meta. Pokémon have 25% of their immediate prevolution's base stats (rounded down) added to their own base stats and gain access to their prevolution's Abilities where applicable. Stats cap out at 255 in order to comply with OM standards.

For example, these are Braviary's new stats:
100+17 / 123+20 / 75+12 / 57+9 / 75+12 / 80+15 = 117/143/87/66/87/95
it also gains access to Hustle from Rufflet.

Mega Evolutions provide the same distributed +100 BST as normal, but scale with their base form if it has prevolutions. E.g. Mega Tyranitar gets buffed, but Mega Latios does not.

This metagame is very high powered by nature, with some Ubers possibly not even being powerful enough to leave a mark. Pokémon with powerful prevolutions or ones with strong abilities are likely to stand out, such as Scizor thanks to Scyther's equal BST or Eeveelutions thanks to their Adaptability access.

Cool examples of what the meta does:
Mega Tyranitar + Pupitar: 117/185/167/111/137/83 Extremely bulky on both sides under Sand, while also having great Attack. One of the highest BST mons in the meta at a massive 800.
Naganadel + Poipole: 89/91/89/145/89/139 Mediocre bulk for the meta, but decent raw offensive stats in combination with Nasty Plot, good coverage and Beast Boost makes this quite a threatening sweeper on paper.
Mega Lucario + Riolu: 80/162/98/148/80/127 A good offensive check to Mega Tyranitar, and powerful in its own right. Also gets access to Prankster pre-Mega, but not sure how relevant that will be.
Chansey + Happiny: 255/6/6/38/121/57 Special attackers are never breaking this. Ever. Blissey + Chansey has slightly less bulk, but is a good choice if you want to run a different item or attacking moves.
Lunala + Cosmoem: 147/120/121/144/139/106 Lunala, but bulkier. Need I say more?
Aegislash + Doublade: Shield: 74/77/187/61/162/68 Blade: 74/177/87/161/62/68 Aegislash looks potentially busted, at least with Stance Change. If so, it has access to No Guard now so there isn't too much of an issue.

Bans: None yet
Unbans: Mega Rayquaza

Questions:
Should Mega Rayquaza be legal?
Should the stat scaling be changed in any way?
Does this meta sound better than the last one? Either way, how do you think it could be improved?
General thoughts?
 
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Let's give Prevolution-based inheritance metas another go, this time with a more widely distributed effect!

Parental Bonds
Premise
: Ubers based meta. Pokémon have half their immediate prevolution's base stats (rounded down) added to their own base stats and gain access to their prevolution's Abilities where applicable.

For example, these are Braviary's new stats:
100+35 / 123+41 / 75+25 / 57+18 / 75+25 / 80+30 = 135/164/100/75/100/110
it also gains access to Hustle from Rufflet.

Mega Evolutions provide the same distributed +100 BST as normal, but scale with their base form if it has prevolutions. E.g. Mega Tyranitar gets buffed, but Mega Latios does not.

This metagame is very high powered by nature, with some Ubers possibly not even being powerful enough to leave a mark. Pokémon with powerful prevolutions or ones with strong abilities are likely to stand out, such as Scizor thanks to Scyther's equal BST or Eeveelutions thanks to their Adaptability access.

Cool examples of what the meta does:
Mega Tyranitar + Pupitar: 135/206/185/127/155/106 Extremely bulky on both sides under Sand, while also having great Attack. One of the highest BST mons in the meta at a massive 905.
Naganadel + Poipole: 106/109/106/163/106/157 Mediocre bulk for the meta, but decent raw offensive stats in combination with Nasty Plot, good coverage and Beast Boost makes this quite a threatening sweeper on paper.
Mega Lucario + Riolu: 90/180/108/157/90/142 A good offensive check to Mega Tyranitar, and powerful in its own right. Also gets access to Prankster pre-Mega, but not sure how relevant that will be.
Blissey + Chansey: 380/12/12/92/187/80 Special attackers are never breaking this. Ever. Chansey + Happiny has very similar bulk with Eviolite, but that limits item choice.
Lunala + Cosmoem: 158/127/154/151/172/115 Lunala, but bulkier. Need I say more?
Aegislash + Doublade: Shield: 89/105/225/72/174/77 Blade: 89/205/125/172/74/77 SD Aegislash looks potentially busted, at least with Stance Change. If so, it has access to No Guard now so there isn't too much of an issue.

Questions:
Should Mega Rayquaza be legal?
Should the stat scaling be changed in any way?
Does this meta sound better than the last one? Either way, how do you think it could be improved?
General thoughts?

Love the update you did with the meta! I have a few questions of my own, and then I'll answer yours.

-Shouldn't the base stats cap at 1 and 255 respectively? I'm pretty sure that's hard coded. And like MnM, the leftover stat changes should just be negated if they go above the stat limit.
-If you unban Mega Ray, it's almost like it's an AG based metagame. And trust me, megas like Tyranitar, Scizor, Gengar, and Salamence are no doubt AG potential. Even if you had some sort of mega clause, or you made it so megas negate the Parental Bonds stat changes, there are still a ton of uber threatening mons like: Aegislash, Z Conversion Porygon Z, and a Silvally with base 143 in every stat but speed. Like, maybe it be cool to have the first AG OM? Otherwise, I would say it is okay to unban Mega Ray anyways, because the power creep is ridiculous.
-Well, OM leaders tend not to like formula based OMs. It be cool if it was as simple as just adding the base stats on, but I know that be broken. I think this is the best way you have done it, and the formula condition is just something to live with. Personally, I don't mind formula OMs; but who cares what I think!
-Totally better, just as there are so many more sets and mons to play around with. A boring meta with little changes is never fun nor would catch on. However, I think the changes here may have gone too far, and it seems like a very over powered meta. I'd say to treat the megas as "form changes," so that the current mega stats will still be there, and won't be additive with the Parental Bond stat buffs.
-I think a better name could be present is all.

Also, I love how its a buff from the prevos and not just an overall buff. The problem I have with Tier Shift is that nothing 'feels' too different as its largely PU and NU mons, and thus the stat buffs just overwrite themselves. Here, with the stats being dependent on the prevos, you get all sorts of different stat changes. That really makes it more interesting and makes new matchups.

I'll edit this later with maybe some sets / threats that are immediately worth putting on a watchlist. I'd like to hear your input on my mega evolution suggestion first before is all.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Love the update you did with the meta! I have a few questions of my own, and then I'll answer yours.

-Shouldn't the base stats cap at 1 and 255 respectively? I'm pretty sure that's hard coded. And like MnM, the leftover stat changes should just be negated if they go above the stat limit.
-If you unban Mega Ray, it's almost like it's an AG based metagame. And trust me, megas like Tyranitar, Scizor, Gengar, and Salamence are no doubt AG potential. Even if you had some sort of mega clause, or you made it so megas negate the Parental Bonds stat changes, there are still a ton of uber threatening mons like: Aegislash, Z Conversion Porygon Z, and a Silvally with base 143 in every stat but speed. Like, maybe it be cool to have the first AG OM? Otherwise, I would say it is okay to unban Mega Ray anyways, because the power creep is ridiculous.
-Well, OM leaders tend not to like formula based OMs. It be cool if it was as simple as just adding the base stats on, but I know that be broken. I think this is the best way you have done it, and the formula condition is just something to live with. Personally, I don't mind formula OMs; but who cares what I think!
-Totally better, just as there are so many more sets and mons to play around with. A boring meta with little changes is never fun nor would catch on. However, I think the changes here may have gone too far, and it seems like a very over powered meta. I'd say to treat the megas as "form changes," so that the current mega stats will still be there, and won't be additive with the Parental Bond stat buffs.
-I think a better name could be present is all.

Also, I love how its a buff from the prevos and not just an overall buff. The problem I have with Tier Shift is that nothing 'feels' too different as its largely PU and NU mons, and thus the stat buffs just overwrite themselves. Here, with the stats being dependent on the prevos, you get all sorts of different stat changes. That really makes it more interesting and makes new matchups.

I'll edit this later with maybe some sets / threats that are immediately worth putting on a watchlist. I'd like to hear your input on my mega evolution suggestion first before is all.
- The 255 limit isn't actually explicitly enforced on Showdown from what I've seen, as I've seen a base 420 Speed Pheromosa with the correct actual Speed, but it is by the real game and by the Damage Calc (unless you copy a number in and click off quickly). It can of course be enforced if that's expected for an OM.
- Not sure I want to make it an AG meta as that leads to several matchup and luck based strategies that make the metagame even harder to prepare for or learn. A Mega clause could be possible but it might just be simpler to ban the offending Megas. Of course, they should be tried out first, and if there are too many then Megas might need to be reworked.
- The first draft of this meta was just a raw addition, then I realised that doing so made the power differences way too high and immediately changed it. It also scaled bulk too high due to HP and Defenses being increased. Scalemons is an approved OM and is significantly Formula based in its stat changes so hopefully this passes those standards.
- Megas do currently follow the form change rule (inheriting from the base form's prevo), and outright making many Megas worse versions of their base form seems kind of naff. Not sure about this one, and I'm honestly not sure that the megas will be insta-broken in this meta; there are many mons with not far below BSTs that have access to held items.
- Probably, yeah.

Yeah, Tier Shift's always been strange to me. Just feels like you're playing a game of NU half the time. That's why I like stat scaling metas like Scalemons; they actually balance out the power level instead of reversing it.

Thanks for your input once again!
 
Let's give Prevolution-based inheritance metas another go, this time with a more widely distributed effect!

Parental Bonds
Premise
: Ubers based meta. Pokémon have half their immediate prevolution's base stats (rounded down) added to their own base stats and gain access to their prevolution's Abilities where applicable.

For example, these are Braviary's new stats:
100+35 / 123+41 / 75+25 / 57+18 / 75+25 / 80+30 = 135/164/100/75/100/110
it also gains access to Hustle from Rufflet.

Mega Evolutions provide the same distributed +100 BST as normal, but scale with their base form if it has prevolutions. E.g. Mega Tyranitar gets buffed, but Mega Latios does not.

This metagame is very high powered by nature, with some Ubers possibly not even being powerful enough to leave a mark. Pokémon with powerful prevolutions or ones with strong abilities are likely to stand out, such as Scizor thanks to Scyther's equal BST or Eeveelutions thanks to their Adaptability access.

Cool examples of what the meta does:
Mega Tyranitar + Pupitar: 135/206/185/127/155/106 Extremely bulky on both sides under Sand, while also having great Attack. One of the highest BST mons in the meta at a massive 905.
Naganadel + Poipole: 106/109/106/163/106/157 Mediocre bulk for the meta, but decent raw offensive stats in combination with Nasty Plot, good coverage and Beast Boost makes this quite a threatening sweeper on paper.
Mega Lucario + Riolu: 90/180/108/157/90/142 A good offensive check to Mega Tyranitar, and powerful in its own right. Also gets access to Prankster pre-Mega, but not sure how relevant that will be.
Blissey + Chansey: 380/12/12/92/187/80 Special attackers are never breaking this. Ever. Chansey + Happiny has very similar bulk with Eviolite, but that limits item choice.
Lunala + Cosmoem: 158/127/154/151/172/115 Lunala, but bulkier. Need I say more?
Aegislash + Doublade: Shield: 89/105/225/72/174/77 Blade: 89/205/125/172/74/77 SD Aegislash looks potentially busted, at least with Stance Change. If so, it has access to No Guard now so there isn't too much of an issue.

Questions:
Should Mega Rayquaza be legal?
Should the stat scaling be changed in any way?
Does this meta sound better than the last one? Either way, how do you think it could be improved?
General thoughts?

167/205/190/77/77/60


95/100/162/190/125/95


Like Blissey, Rhyperior and Magnezone have prevos with decent stats, giving them hefty boosts to their already solid base stats.
 
Let's give Prevolution-based inheritance metas another go, this time with a more widely distributed effect!

Parental Bonds
Premise
: Ubers based meta. Pokémon have half their immediate prevolution's base stats (rounded down) added to their own base stats and gain access to their prevolution's Abilities where applicable.

For example, these are Braviary's new stats:
100+35 / 123+41 / 75+25 / 57+18 / 75+25 / 80+30 = 135/164/100/75/100/110
it also gains access to Hustle from Rufflet.

Mega Evolutions provide the same distributed +100 BST as normal, but scale with their base form if it has prevolutions. E.g. Mega Tyranitar gets buffed, but Mega Latios does not.

This metagame is very high powered by nature, with some Ubers possibly not even being powerful enough to leave a mark. Pokémon with powerful prevolutions or ones with strong abilities are likely to stand out, such as Scizor thanks to Scyther's equal BST or Eeveelutions thanks to their Adaptability access.

Cool examples of what the meta does:
Mega Tyranitar + Pupitar: 135/206/185/127/155/106 Extremely bulky on both sides under Sand, while also having great Attack. One of the highest BST mons in the meta at a massive 905.
Naganadel + Poipole: 106/109/106/163/106/157 Mediocre bulk for the meta, but decent raw offensive stats in combination with Nasty Plot, good coverage and Beast Boost makes this quite a threatening sweeper on paper.
Mega Lucario + Riolu: 90/180/108/157/90/142 A good offensive check to Mega Tyranitar, and powerful in its own right. Also gets access to Prankster pre-Mega, but not sure how relevant that will be.
Blissey + Chansey: 380/12/12/92/187/80 Special attackers are never breaking this. Ever. Chansey + Happiny has very similar bulk with Eviolite, but that limits item choice.
Lunala + Cosmoem: 158/127/154/151/172/115 Lunala, but bulkier. Need I say more?
Aegislash + Doublade: Shield: 89/105/225/72/174/77 Blade: 89/205/125/172/74/77 SD Aegislash looks potentially busted, at least with Stance Change. If so, it has access to No Guard now so there isn't too much of an issue.

Questions:
Should Mega Rayquaza be legal?
Should the stat scaling be changed in any way?
Does this meta sound better than the last one? Either way, how do you think it could be improved?
General thoughts?
Since Parental Bond was changed from 50% to 25% it would be more fitting to have the pre-evolutions' base stats be one quarter rounded down instead. It would also make things less absurdly powerful which helps balance things better.

A weird idea I had is to combine this with your Self-Improvement meta, where the final evo would take the highest stat among its evolution line and then factor in the 25% stat thing afterward. It fits with the concept of the earlier evolutions being used as support. In any case your idea sounds really cool.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Since Parental Bond was changed from 50% to 25% it would be more fitting to have the pre-evolutions' base stats be one quarter rounded down instead. It would also make things less absurdly powerful which helps balance things better.

A weird idea I had is to combine this with your Self-Improvement meta, where the final evo would take the highest stat among its evolution line and then factor in the 25% stat thing afterward. It fits with the concept of the earlier evolutions being used as support. In any case your idea sounds really cool.
The first part isn't a bad suggestion! I'll ask for more community input on this one. 25% of the prevo might be a better power level, and might not warrant an Ubers metagame.
The second part is a bit more awkward; I feel like it might get a bit convoluted at that point, and gives a very small pool of mons a large extra buff.


Other thing: I've speedily implemented the format and a stat check command on to my showdown server for trying out the meta! Use /pbond [mon] to check stats. The meta itself is on the farthest right column right under Other Metagames if you want to challenge someone to it! Hopefully being able to play the meta will help with figuring out what needs adjusting.

Played a game vs Ho3nConfirm3d, gg http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nexus-gen7parentalbonds-14280
 
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Another potentially interesting mon in Parental Bonds:

With base 200 speed, Electrode is one of the fastest Pokemon around, second only to Mega Zam, I think. Its movepool is rather barren, but with Taunt, Dual Screens, Volt Switch, and Explosion, it can carve a niche as a Screens suicide lead that can taunt even Deoxys-S.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Mega Zam sounds terrifying. I haven't run the calcs yet, but Kadabra is pretty fast and strong, so it would give a big boost to base Alakazam, which is further boosted by Mega Evolution.
 

Ezaphs

it was all just a metaphor
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
I've been posting a lot in this thread over the last day, so from now on I'll probably just edit the original Parental Bonds post with further changes / updates if you're interested in those. Just making this one to say that the prevolution stat buff is now decreased to 25%. This allows some Pokémon without evolutions to actually have a place in the meta, and for pseudos to be less overwhelmingly powerful compared to the rest of the cast (This 25% nerf removes 100 BST from Tyranitar).
Hopefully this helps with decentralising the meta!
 
Here's another idea for a metagame that I had (but I don't have a good name for):
Moves get STAB, regardless of type.
So now you can run moves of any type viably.
I'll post more stuff about it soon when I have time, but in the mean time, any thoughts?
 

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