Metagame Workshop

[Sugarbear]

The main purpose of this meta is not to change this move into a powerful one, but to make it aviable to physical attackers.

Still wouldn't help much IMO. The only uses I can think of would be Mega Scizor and Kartana using HP Rock to hit Zapdos, Volcarona and Charizard.

A pet mod idea I had:

Balanced Ubers

Premise: Some overcentralising stuff gets nerfed; some low rank stuff gets buffed.
Details: Primal Reversion will now take up your mega slot, so you can't use Primal Groudon and Mega Salamence on the same team. Desolate Land and Primordial Sea no longer negate Water and Fire moves entirely - instead, they cut the damage in half. The lower rank Arceus formes no longer have to run Multitype a la Balanced Hackmons, and may get new moves instead (only moves that forme would use). Example: Bug Arceus gets the ability Tinted Lens and the move Megahorn.

 

[david0895]

Still wouldn't help much IMO. The only uses I can think of would be Mega Scizor and Kartana using HP Rock to hit Zapdos, Volcarona and Charizard.

Hp fire to hit scizor ferrothorn and kartana
Hp ice to hit landorus, garchomp and zygarde
Hp ground to hit heatran and nihilego.
Also hp ice/ground kyurem-black

 

[Sugarbear]

I guess, but the move is so weak that I don't think it would have that much impact. It's not a metagame I'd personally play.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Still wouldn't help much IMO. The only uses I can think of would be Mega Scizor and Kartana using HP Rock to hit Zapdos, Volcarona and Charizard.

A pet mod idea I had:

Balanced Ubers

Premise: Some overcentralising stuff gets nerfed; some low rank stuff gets buffed.
Details: Primal Reversion will now take up your mega slot, so you can't use Primal Groudon and Mega Salamence on the same team. Desolate Land and Primordial Sea no longer negate Water and Fire moves entirely - instead, they cut the damage in half. To compensate, they buff their respective attacks by X2. The lower rank Arceus formes no longer have to run Multitype a la Balanced Hackmons, and may get new moves instead (only moves that forme would use). Example: Bug Arceus gets the ability Tinted Lens and the move Megahorn.

Uhhh so water bubble primal Kyogre and "fire bubble" pdon?

Doesn't sound too balanced to me lol

 

[Speny]

Fusion Moves

Premise: Moved are fused together, sharing both types similar to the move Flying Press. The power and stats of the move are averaged between the two.

Explanation: The first move determines if it's special or physical. The Pokemon can only us moves it can learn. In cases like priority where on of the moves would have priority of +1 and can't be rounded to +0.5 priority it will round down. Move will be entered as Move1Name/Move2Name on showdown for them to fuse. Stab is dependent on the first move. Moves that have things happen in 2 turns fused with moves that happen in one turn will do the have both actions happen on the same turn. Move that have the effect of not being able to miss will be treated as if they had 110% accuracy when calculating the average hit chance. Moves that hit twice fused with moves that hit once will hit twice but the second hit will do half the damage.
Rules: Standard OU rules
Banned Fusions: Moves that hit 3 or more times.

Example:

Attack Order/Lava Plume
Power: 85
Type: Bug/Fire
Physical
Crit rate: 6.25%
Burn chance: 15%

Moves taken from:
Attack Order
Power: 90
Type: Bug
Physical
Crit rate: 12.5%

Lava Plume
Power: 80
Type: Fire
Special
Burn chance: 30%

Questions: Is there anything that needs more clarification? What are some potential threats and things I missed that should be banned? Should only attacking moves be able to fuse?

 

[Swaggy-G]

New idea:

Metagame name: Elemental Forces
Metagame premise: Each typing gives a boost to a certain stat, following the list below. In case of secondary typings, you can choose by making the Pokemon shiny, if you prefer using the secondary typing. A Pokemon will only receive one stat boost.

Potential bans and threats: OU Banlist

How the metagame will work:

Boosts per typing:

Normal: HP +10
Fighting: Attack +15
Flying: Speed +10
Poison: Special Defense +5
Ground: Attack +5
Bug: Speed +5
Ghost: Defense +5
Steel: Defense +15
Fire: Special Attack +15
Water: HP +5
Grass: HP: +15
Electric: Special Attack +5
Psychic: Special Attack +10
Ice: Special Defense +15
Dragon: Speed +15
Dark: Attack +10
Fairy: Special Defense: +10


Questions for the community:

• The only question i have is is this existing already?

It doesn't seem like there would be enough change to be worth playing, and the changes just seem kinda arbitrary for the most part. Bug, a low tier type, gets a measly +5, while Steel and Dragon, two of the best types in the game, get +15? Ice, an offensive type that suffers from having too many defensive pokemon gets a special defence boost? Why?

 

[EchoGaia]

It doesn't seem like there would be enough change to be worth playing, and the changes just seem kinda arbitrary for the most part. Bug, a low tier type, gets a measly +5, while Steel and Dragon, two of the best types in the game, get +15? Ice, an offensive type that suffers from having too many defensive pokemon gets a special defence boost? Why?

Actually the boosts were according to the highest stat for the type on average, but had to complete with left stats so all were represented. It's not arbitrary, it's according to average highest stats.

For Steel, since Defense is the highest of all the types, they get the highest boost, but i can do the reverse, the stat category won't change though.

Edit: Not even gonna be coded, a similar meta was rejected already.

 

[Whammerist]

Fusion Moves

Premise: Moved are fused together, sharing both types similar to the move Flying Press. The power and stats of the move are averaged between the two.

Explanation: The first move determines if it's special or physical. The Pokemon can only us moves it can learn. In cases like priority where on of the moves would have priority of +1 and can't be rounded to +0.5 priority it will round down. Move will be entered as Move1Name/Move2Name on showdown for them to fuse. Stab is dependent on the first move. Moves that have things happen in 2 turns fused with moves that happen in one turn will do the have both actions happen on the same turn. Move that have the effect of not being able to miss will be treated as if they had 110% accuracy when calculating the average hit chance. Moves that hit twice fused with moves that hit once will hit twice but the second hit will do half the damage.
Rules: Standard OU rules
Banned Fusions: Moves that hit 3 or more times.

Example:
Questions: Is there anything that needs more clarification? What are some potential threats and things I missed that should be banned? Should only attacking moves be able to fuse?

This meta seems crazy as hell, and if properly organized/ran, I'd love to play it.
The multi-hit cause seems like a really weird inclusion. Just ban multi-hit moves in general IMO.
I'd only allow physical moves to fuse, I don't see how status would be implemented both balanced and intuitively at the same time.
What happens to moves with special traits, like Fake Out / First Impression's only can be used once... thing, or two-turn moves, item-stealing moves like Thief, Knock Off, or Covet, etc?

 

[EchoGaia]

This meta seems crazy as hell, and if properly organized/ran, I'd love to play it.
The multi-hit cause seems like a really weird inclusion. Just ban multi-hit moves in general IMO.
I'd only allow physical moves to fuse, I don't see how status would be implemented both balanced and intuitively at the same time.
What happens to moves with special traits, like Fake Out / First Impression's only can be used once... thing, or two-turn moves, item-stealing moves like Thief, Knock Off, or Covet, etc?

I can answer most of that, since my friend got the same idea and we kinda discussed it.

Multi Hit moves would obviously be banned, so will most likely be Power-Up-Punch (not sure about that one).

Fake Out would be limited to one per team, to prevent endless flinching when paired with U turn.

Status moves could be used, but using them would halve the base power of the move and the effect of the status move would become a secondary effect (usually 10% whatever the move have a secondary effect or not, though if it has two secondary effects, both will have 10% chance to trigger.)

Two Turn moves would give the two turn effect to the fused move, same for locking moves like Outrage. Stealing moves would add their effects to the fused move as well.

For moves like Seismic Toss and Night Shade, if paired with a damaging move, the damaging move lose entirely its base Power as it gets remplaced by the special damage of those moves, but they add a secondary effect if any with a 20% chance. If those moves are fused with a status move, the status move becomes secondary effect with a 10% chance.

Hope it answers most of your questions ^^ :)

Of course the creator of the meta will have the last word, but i'm inviting him or she to Dragon Heaven if he or she wants to discuss the meta :).


.

 

[SunshineFuture]

Fusion Moves

Premise: Moved are fused together, sharing both types similar to the move Flying Press. The power and stats of the move are averaged between the two.

Explanation: The first move determines if it's special or physical. The Pokemon can only us moves it can learn. In cases like priority where on of the moves would have priority of +1 and can't be rounded to +0.5 priority it will round down. Move will be entered as Move1Name/Move2Name on showdown for them to fuse. Stab is dependent on the first move. Moves that have things happen in 2 turns fused with moves that happen in one turn will do the have both actions happen on the same turn. Move that have the effect of not being able to miss will be treated as if they had 110% accuracy when calculating the average hit chance. Moves that hit twice fused with moves that hit once will hit twice but the second hit will do half the damage.
Rules: Standard OU rules
Banned Fusions: Moves that hit 3 or more times.

Example:
Questions: Is there anything that needs more clarification? What are some potential threats and things I missed that should be banned? Should only attacking moves be able to fuse?

I think it needs a different name, as there is already the Fusion Moves Pet Mod and it would be confusing. How about "Stop The Presses!"

Anyways, multi-hit moves should be banned from fusing. Also, I think that recharge moves should be banned from fusing (Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, etc). It would lead to HyperSpam and nobody wants that. Lastly, I think that status moves should be able to fuse, but only with each other. The whole half base power thing is weird and nobody would use status moves to fuse and the meta will be likely offensive.

 

[Dunfan]

I really love the idea of Fusion Moves.
Funny enough, i also got the idea just before reading Speny's post. I'm happy that Speny got the idea before me because i could have never posted it.
Grats for everything.

I had weird names for that meta like "Move×Move" or "Frankenmoves".

I think it needs a different name, as there is already the Fusion Moves Pet Mod and it would be confusing. How about "Stop The Presses!"

Anyways, multi-hit moves should be banned from fusing. Also, I think that recharge moves should be banned from fusing (Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, etc). It would lead to HyperSpam and nobody wants that. Lastly, I think that status moves should be able to fuse, but only with each other. The whole half base power thing is weird and nobody would use status moves to fuse and the meta will be likely offensive.

Sadly, that would lead to things like Substitute + Recover.
That being said, if Substitute is banned, that could be nice.

Also, how would stat-raising moves be handled ?

 

[EchoGaia]

I think it needs a different name, as there is already the Fusion Moves Pet Mod and it would be confusing. How about "Stop The Presses!"

Anyways, multi-hit moves should be banned from fusing. Also, I think that recharge moves should be banned from fusing (Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, etc). It would lead to HyperSpam and nobody wants that. Lastly, I think that status moves should be able to fuse, but only with each other. The whole half base power thing is weird and nobody would use status moves to fuse and the meta will be likely offensive.

Technically there's no reason to ban recharge moves, as the fused move will recharge too ^^, it falls into the same category as locked moves like Outrage or Two turn moves.

I really love the idea of Fusion Moves.
Funny enough, i also got the idea just before reading Speny's post. I'm happy that Speny got the idea before me because i could have never posted it.
Grats for everything.

I had weird names for that meta like "Move×Move" or "Frankenmoves"



Sadly, that would lead to things like Substitute + Recover.
That being said, if Substitute is banned, that could be nice.

Also, how would stat-raising moves be handled ?

Stat raising moves will become a secondary effect with 10% chance to trigger. Fusing will only be possible with at least one attacking move. Fusing two status moves is banned.

Agree Dunsparce Fanboy? This way no sub+healing moves ^^

 

[SadisticMystic]

I can answer most of that, since my friend got the same idea and we kinda discussed it.

Multi Hit moves would obviously be banned, so will most likely be Power-Up-Punch (not sure about that one).

Fake Out would be limited to one per team, to prevent endless flinching when paired with U turn.

Status moves could be used, but using them would halve the base power of the move and the effect of the status move would become a secondary effect (usually 10% whatever the move have a secondary effect or not, though if it has two secondary effects, both will have 10% chance to trigger.)

Two Turn moves would give the two turn effect to the fused move, same for locking moves like Outrage. Stealing moves would add their effects to the fused move as well.

For moves like Seismic Toss and Night Shade, if paired with a damaging move, the damaging move lose entirely its base Power as it gets remplaced by the special damage of those moves, but they add a secondary effect if any with a 20% chance. If those moves are fused with a status move, the status move becomes secondary effect with a 10% chance.

Hope it answers most of your questions ^^ :)

Of course the creator of the meta will have the last word, but i'm inviting him or she to Dragon Heaven if he or she wants to discuss the meta :).


.

Note that by the rules of the format, Fake Out/U-turn is a move with only a 50% flinch chance here (and 55 power which is resisted by seven different types and completely blank on an eighth), pretty comparable to what you can already get in normal play with King's Rock Beat Up (a set that's not really known for climbing the ladder ranks). Nothing gets the combo of Serene Grace + Fake Out, never mind a pivot move on top of them, so it might not be too bad to just allow that.

 

[Dunfan]

It would also be sad to make the meta too random and make Serene Grace rule everything.
Also, how will Z-Moves be handled ? And would Hidden Power make the move of the type of the Hidden Power (without dual typing) ?
Sorry for all those questions.

 

[AquaticPanic]

What happens if Smeargle uses two Pledges moves?

 

[EchoGaia]

Note that by the rules of the format, Fake Out/U-turn is a move with only a 50% flinch chance here (and 55 power which is resisted by seven different types and completely blank on an eighth), pretty comparable to what you can already get in normal play with King's Rock Beat Up (a set that's not really known for climbing the ladder ranks). Nothing gets the combo of Serene Grace + Fake Out, never mind a pivot move on top of them, so it might not be too bad to just allow that.

Even with that, it's still a move with high flinch chance rate and could lend to broken things as it's basically free chip damage and pivoting out. We will see as the meta goes on but if it's get centrilizing, we will ban it.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Even with that, it's still a move with high flinch chance rate and could lend to broken things as it's basically free chip damage and pivoting out. We will see as the meta goes on but if it's get centrilizing, we will ban it.

It's no higher flinch chance than Iron Head Jirachi or Air Slash Togekiss. And it also has a worse offensive typing.

 

[Regimaster57]

Uhhh so water bubble primal Kyogre and "fire bubble" pdon?

Doesn't sound too balanced to me lol

It's literally just a nerf of their normal abilities since they already buff their respective types to 2x

 

[AquaticPanic]

It's literally just a nerf of their normal abilities since they already buff their respective types to 2x

1.5x, not 2x. It's the same as all other weathers as well as terrain:

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Heavy Rain: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Rain: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Regimaster57]

1.5x, not 2x. It's the same as all other weathers as well as terrain:

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Heavy Rain: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Rain: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Huh. Well, my mistake. At least they take up a Mega slot in this.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

The main purpose of this meta is not to change this move into a powerful one, but to make it aviable to physical attackers.

I get this. The thing is if its not incredibly viable the meta won't be very different from standard, and nobody will be interested in it. This is one of the problems Tier Shift had. If you look at something like Mix and Mega (or AAA, or Stabmons #freestabmons, or BH, but MNM is imo the best example), the core mechanic of the Metagame is extremely viable. There's very little reason not to run it. So it's different from standard and interesting and its one of the most popular oms.

Your OM idea would be basically the same as ou with defensive mons with 4x weaknesses sucking a little bit more because they can get picked off by physical hidden powers as well as special. You don't have to take my suggestion, but if you want your meta to be successful / exist, you need to do something with it so that there's a compelling reason to abuse the core mechanic of the meta.

 

[Sugarbear]

1.5x, not 2x. It's the same as all other weathers as well as terrain:

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Heavy Rain: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow in Rain: 217-256 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You're right, that was OP so I've changed it so they still give the regular boost. Essentially, those abilities are now Drought and Drizzle that last as long as the Pokemon is on the battlefield.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Another meta which a kind soul needs to submit. I know that there are not many tiers yet, but there will be in the future, so I want to share this idea.

Re: Tier Shift

I don't know if Tier Shift has been resubmitted in OM Submission already, but this time, I want to introduce a new idea of Tier Shift. I believe this is the most balanced form of Tier Shift you can get as Ubers based.

Metagame Premise and Rules:

1. Ubers Based. Why? Because it baffled me that EXTREME Tier Shift last gen was one of the most played OMotMs while the regular OU based one got so few plays. So I attempt to combine it and make what I think, an "ideal and universal Tier Shift."

2. All tiers below Ubers gets a respective amount of stats. Here are the rules
Ubers gets +0
OU gets +10
BL/UU gets +15
BL2/RU gets +20
BL3/NU (once it exists) gets +25
And another +5 if there's a tier below it

Why does OU directly get +10, not +5? Because, let's face it, there's so much difference in power between top Ubers and OU. The purpose of Tier Shift is to balance the meta by making possibly all mons viable. THIS, is also the reason why UU and below gets +5 per tier, not +10. Well, it's been proven in EXTREME Tier Shift that having +10 increase per tier made PU way too strong... so this attempts to nerf it. In this meta, if PU exists, it'd be +30, so it's still viable, but not too strong like once it was.

Explanation: If anyone here never heard of Tier Shift before, here it is.

In this meta, pokemon gets a stats boost depending on which tier it's currently in. For example, Tapu Lele. It's original stats is 70 / 85 / 75 / 130 / 115 / 95

It's OU, so in Re:Tier Shift, it'll get +10 in all stats, so it's stats become 80 / 95 / 85 / 140 / 125 / 105

Another example, Suicune. It's original stats is 100 / 75 / 115 / 90 / 115 / 85.

It's currently BL2, so it'll get +20 in all stats. It's stats in Re:Tier Shift will become 120 / 95 / 135 / 110 / 135 / 105.

I think that's enough explanation.

Question: I don't think there's a need of question for now. I'll list it once I thought of it.

 

[Samtendo09]

Another meta which a kind soul needs to submit. I know that there are not many tiers yet, but there will be in the future, so I want to share this idea.

Re: Tier Shift

I don't know if Tier Shift has been resubmitted in OM Submission already, but this time, I want to introduce a new idea of Tier Shift. I believe this is the most balanced form of Tier Shift you can get as Ubers based.

Metagame Premise and Rules:

1. Ubers Based. Why? Because it baffled me that EXTREME Tier Shift last gen was one of the most played OMotMs while the regular OU based one got so few plays. So I attempt to combine it and make what I think, an "ideal and universal Tier Shift."

2. All tiers below Ubers gets a respective amount of stats. Here are the rules
Ubers gets +0
OU gets +10
BL/UU gets +15
BL2/RU gets +20
BL3/NU (once it exists) gets +25
And another +5 if there's a tier below it

Why does OU directly get +10, not +5? Because, let's face it, there's so much difference in power between top Ubers and OU. The purpose of Tier Shift is to balance the meta by making possibly all mons viable. THIS, is also the reason why UU and below gets +5 per tier, not +10. Well, it's been proven in EXTREME Tier Shift that having +10 increase per tier made PU way too strong... so this attempts to nerf it. In this meta, if PU exists, it'd be +30, so it's still viable, but not too strong like once it was.

Explanation: If anyone here never heard of Tier Shift before, here it is.

In this meta, pokemon gets a stats boost depending on which tier it's currently in. For example, Tapu Lele. It's original stats is 70 / 85 / 75 / 130 / 115 / 95

It's OU, so in Re:Tier Shift, it'll get +10 in all stats, so it's stats become 80 / 95 / 85 / 140 / 125 / 105

Another example, Suicune. It's original stats is 100 / 75 / 115 / 90 / 115 / 85.

It's currently BL2, so it'll get +20 in all stats. It's stats in Re:Tier Shift will become 120 / 95 / 135 / 110 / 135 / 105.

I think that's enough explanation.

Question: I don't think there's a need of question for now. I'll list it once I thought of it.

The problem is that not all tiers are completed as of yet, although there is indeed a tier that is below NU (BL4 and PU).

 

[AquaticPanic]

I think we should wait for lower tiers to exist before resubmitting it.
But with Gen 7 I can't wait for Alolan Persian to get buffed up to hella bulky Fur Coat user. And Eviolite Null.