Metagame Workshop

reagularman

formerly CoolMan6001
Hello! Today I'm back again with yet another type based om, We don't have enough type-based metas in other metas :3

Plate Change

Have you ever wanted to use a mon that had decent defensive stats but couldn't pull it off due to bad typing? Wanted to use ur favourite offensive mon but had it suffer from a terrible movepool? Well all these problems disappear when you play Plate Change!

Metagame premise: An OU based meta game where a pokemons secondary typing changes to the plate typing its holding while getting access to all moves from that type, and you can change the pokemons primary type according to the memory its holding while getting all moves from that type

Example:


Arcanine @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Lax Nature
- Shore Up
- Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
9
By holding a ground plate, arcanine now gets an additional ground typing with access to all ground moves, it now can work as a great intimidator that's neutral to rocks and ice

This also works for offensive threats obviously! Mons can now get better coverage and typing with good plate typing a such as ground/fire/fighting and ghost plates


Azumarill @ Dark Memory
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Liquidation/Aqua Jet/Belly Drum

Since Azu is holding a dark memory, its primary type turns into dark and azumarill now gets stab sucker which hurts


/

Dhelmise @ Iron Plate / Steel Memory
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Claw

Probably not gonna be good in a meta full of fire and ground coverage and dhelmise isn't even the best user (it's probably gonna be heatran who's best grass/steel or ghost/steel user), but who cares cause steelworker + stab + iron plate anchor shot still hurts a ton, rapid spin + recovery is also pretty nice

There is many more examples like UBs, Tapus and mythicals I haven't even touched upon, there's so many possibilties

Q. What if my plate gets knocked off?
A. Plates can't be knocked off similarly to how the plate can't be knocked off when arceus is holding it

Q. How do I make my mon get access to normal type moves?
A. Sadly since normal plate does not exist you cannot do that (for the best probably, normal has most broken options in boomburst, judgment, fake speed, shell smash..etc)

Potential bans and threats:
Moves
: quiver dance, v-create, tail glow, shift gear, thousand arrows (many more I just don't remember off the top of my head)
Pokemon: other than obvious shedinja, I'm not sure yet
Tapu Koko and Lele are likely candidates with access to new typings like fire fairy and coverage moves like blue flare and earth power now, Kartana and Kyu-b are also on the watchlist for obvious reasons

Questions for the community:
  • Does this meta sound fun?
  • Some said it looks a bit similar to camo+stab hybrid, does it look that way? If so how do I differentiate it more?
  • Any other things look broken?
Of course if u like this idea show ur support and drop a like! Love to hear your opinions!
Dude my meta hasn't been rejected or accepted yet. I know you love my meta but just no...
 

wishes

any hole is a goal
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Going off OM!'s idea, I thought about my own idea which revolved around Eviolite.

Instead of now boosting just Defense and Special Defense by 1.5x, it will boost both the Attack and Special Attack stat, depending on which is higher; or, if they're equal to each other, it will stick true to its original property of boosting Def/SpD. For instance...
  • Chansey has 5 Atk and 5 Def, so it will raise Defense; Chansey has 35 SpA and 135 SpD, so it will raise Special Defense.
  • Porygon2 has 80 Atk and 90 Def, so it will raise Defense; Porygon2 has 105 SpA and 95 SpD, so it will raise Special Attack.
  • Rhydon has 130 Atk and 120 Def, so it will raise Attack; Rhydon has 45 SpA and 45 SpD, so it will raise Special Defense.
  • Weepinbell has 90 Atk and 50 Def, so it will raise Attack; Weepinbell has 85 SpA and 45 SpD, so it will raise Special Attack.
Simple enough, right? This is simply just a thought I had, and I don't know if it would change things enough / be a fun enough change to consider. Here is a potential threat:

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Rhydon now patches up its poor SpD stat and effectively gains a Choice Band boost! At +2, it can do this:

+1 252 Atk Eviolite Rhydon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 292-345 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's pretty crazy!

Again, this is merely an idea I gained inspiration from OM!, so credit for the idea prospering goes to him. What do you guys think of this kind of Eviolite-based metagame though? Too complex? Not fun enough? Meh? Let me know!
 

lyd

Happily Stoked
is a Smogon Media Contributor
wishes I really like the Eviolite idea you proposed. But I think it'd be interesting to change the mechanics a little bit to make it more interesting. Instead of using base stats to determine which stat is boosted, use raw stats like Photon Geyser and Beast Boost do. So Porygon2 wouldn't always gain Defense boost. Offensive variants would gain a Special Attack raise instead, for exemple. Finally, I also think it'd be interesting not to limit it just to Attack/Defense & Special Attack/Special Defense, and rather, simply boost the two highest stats, this allows for Pokémon to boost both Attack and Defense or both Special stats and also allows boosts to Speed, which is something i feel really would make NFEs like Zweilous and Magneton stand out.

Overall, cool idea of bringing Eviolite to other stats!
 
Interesting OM idea I have been bouncing around in my head for a while.

Hazardmons
Hazardmons is an OU based metagame with a very simple concept: All Pokemon can learn every hazard move. (Stealth Rocks, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web)

This means that every Pokemon can function as a setter of any hazard.

Obviously some play styles get direct buffs, namely HO. Originally, Webs HO was hindered by its reliance on Pokemon with the coveted Sticky Web, but now, there will be no need for Araquanid, Shuckle, or Smeargle. Suddenly, Webs HO can have 6 sweepers, but some with Webs (or Spikes) as a final move, or can use a more reliable setter.

Swellow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Counter
- U-turn
- Sticky Web
Has the capability to set webs for a team to sweep.


Even with the direct buff to HO, there is the issue that since every Pokemon gets access to webs, both teams will be hindered by webs. With this in mind, I think the dominant strategy will be a sort of "balance webs" that focuses on setting webs but avoids having the opponent set up webs.

Strong Tactics:
Flying Types- Flying Types love this meta! Immunity to webs and wide access to defog will probably be very useful. Specifically, I can see Salamence on HO and Skarmory on balance/stall


Hazard Stacking- Even with the inevitable presence of Webs, standard spikes stacking can become pretty solid now. Pokemon that can force switches such as Mawile-M, Tapu Koko, and others will greatly benefit from access to spikes.

Trick Room- Web-happy opponents will think twice before making your team faster in TR! Switching speed order can clean teams if they are unprepared!

Bans:
I don't thinks that there will be any bans besides what OU implements, but maybe there will be a certain limit to how many Pokemon can use each new hazard, 3 maybe?


Questions:
What do people think of the idea? It's not quite as creative as some of the other ideas posted, but I feel like more chaotic metagames burn out much quicker, while this idea I could imagine having a competitive base to keep it alive; there are many interesting unexplored ideas to be found in the meta!


What do people think of limiting the number non-native hazard setters?
 
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It's not a very interesting concept. Also, you can pretty much do the same thing in Sketchmons.
I agree that the concept is pretty boring flavor-wise, but I think that there is a lot of competitive potential for a metagame where there are no blatantly busted Pokemon, while still being fun (I hope) to players who might want to take it seriously.

Personally, I feel like this metagame is much more interesting than Sketchmons, because Sketchmons buffs individual Pokemon, and you kinda clump them together. This metagame almost forces people to think of tactics that best use hazards based on what people are using. (This is an over-generalization, tactics can be used in Sketchmons, but it is usually harder to think of the overall team when you want to add any move to a Pokemon)

I'll just scrap this idea if flavor is a necessity, but I still think that there is a lot of potential for a hazards based metagame.
 
Memories Past

holding a drive makes you resist the things that type would resist; first move in move slot becomes the drives type.

so for instance tapu koko could run a fairy drive or ice drive depending on what it wanted stab or coverage and go to town

while ferrothorn can hold a water plate to help negate its fire weakness while making leech seed water type

NOTE: drives do not give you the type!



Moltres-fighting,ground drive(coverage plus only 2x weak)
Volcarona-fighting,ground drive(coverage plus only 2x weakness)
Kartana-fire,water,dragon drive(coverage and removing that 4x weakness)


Muk-A-flying drive(did some one say no weaknesses)
Bisharp-Ghost Drive(immunities are fun)
Quagsire-Grass drive
 
I agree that the concept is pretty boring flavor-wise, but I think that there is a lot of competitive potential for a metagame where there are no blatantly busted Pokemon, while still being fun (I hope) to players who might want to take it seriously.

Personally, I feel like this metagame is much more interesting than Sketchmons, because Sketchmons buffs individual Pokemon, and you kinda clump them together. This metagame almost forces people to think of tactics that best use hazards based on what people are using. (This is an over-generalization, tactics can be used in Sketchmons, but it is usually harder to think of the overall team when you want to add any move to a Pokemon)

I'll just scrap this idea if flavor is a necessity, but I still think that there is a lot of potential for a hazards based metagame.
Probably all that would happen is more Magic Guard users and Defoggers.
 
Ok but changing the Prmary through Memories has a disadvantage since Plates give a boost while Memories don't. Just make Primary/Secondary by being shiny or not.
they still receive stab from their moves so it's not like they get nothing, it is a bit of disadvantage tho, but usually I tend to dislike shiny/non shiny metas but i guess I can do it

Here's some more interesting sets for plate change since the ones I posted weren't very interested

Tapu Fire @ Flame Plate
Ability: Electric Surge
Serious Nature
- Blue Flare
- V-create
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch/U-turn


S T A B M O N S (M) @ Sky Plate
Ability: Intimidate
- Beak Blast
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock


Grassarona @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Flame Body
- Seed Flare
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Quiver Dance


Scizor @ Iron Plate
Ability: Beast Boost
Serious Nature
- Roost
- Anchor Shot
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake


PsyChe @ Flying Memory
Ability: Magnet Pull
- Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Ascent
- Roost


Aegislash @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Magma Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt


Zygarde-broke @ Iron Plate
Ability: Aura Break
Serious Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance


S K A R M O R Y @ Flying Memory/Grass Memory
Ability: Beast Boost
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Roost/Strength sap
- Beak Blast/Leech seed
- Gyro Ball
- Defog/Power Whip/Trick Room

Dude my meta hasn't been rejected or accepted yet. I know you love my meta but just no...
I'm just posting it in the workshop :p don't worry I won't post it in the submissions...yet
 
Retro Cup

In retro cup, some Gen 1 mechanics would be mixed with modern ones. First off, Spacial Attack and Special Defense would be fused into our good old special stat. This special stat would be determined by the average of SpA and SpD. Also, the category of the move would be linked to its typing, same as Gen 1. Finally, crits would be determined by the speed of the pokemon.

I'm not really sure about threats or bans, even though I can easily imagine Manaphy and Xurkitree being really strong thanks to tail glow.

So my questions are: What do I do with fairy type not to become a pet mod? Did something similar as already been done? Should I let the crits as I posted?
 
Retro Cup

In retro cup, some Gen 1 mechanics would be mixed with modern ones. First off, Spacial Attack and Special Defense would be fused into our good old special stat. This special stat would be determined by the average of SpA and SpD. Also, the category of the move would be linked to its typing, same as Gen 1. Finally, crits would be determined by the speed of the pokemon.

I'm not really sure about threats or bans, even though I can easily imagine Manaphy and Xurkitree being really strong thanks to tail glow.

So my questions are: What do I do with fairy type not to become a pet mod? Did something similar as already been done? Should I let the crits as I posted?
Because the lack of a physical/special split isn't unique to Gen 1, I don't think it should be included. Fusing the Special stats honestly sounds like the most pet-moddy part of this, and raises question of how Shell Smash would work, so maybe nix that too. That just leaves speedy crits, and while I would happily play that meta since it's the only Gen 1 quirk that actually makes sense, I doubt that alone would be popular enough to make it on its own. However, Gen 1, in all of ramshackly coded goodness, has a few other unique features that could be added to this meta:
  • Attacks with a chance to inflict status cannot inflict Pokemon of the same type.
    • Body Slam cannot paralyze Normal-types, Scald cannot burn Water-types, etc.
  • Moves that usually force the user to recharge will not do so if it knocks out a Pokemon or Substitute.
    • Unfortunately, other than Hyper Beam and Giga Impact, moves of this nature have very low distribution.
Here are my thoughts on a meta that combines the original crit system, type-based immunity to status infliction chances, and recharge-skipping kills:

  • Physical Ghost and Psychic types finally have good STAB.
  • Physical Water types can switch into Scald without fear.
  • With critical hits being more common, Battle Armor, Shell Armor, and Lucky Chant are more valuable.
  • Starters have a STAB Special nuke.
  • Scope Lens is disgusting. It should definitely be banned.
Some scary Pokemon:
  • Mega Pinsir (and other Pokemon with -ate abilities)
    • Despite getting STAB Slash, it's barely stronger than non-crit Return. The real kicker Giga Impact, which hits like a truck.
  • Mega Charizard Y
    • Blast Burn. Enough said.
  • Drapion
    • Cross Poison and Night Slash effectively get a Choice Band boost thanks to Sniper. Battle Armor is also an option.
  • Gyarados
    • With its Water typing and incredible special bulk, Gyarados turns basically any defensive Water-type into setup fodder. If you opt to use Mega Gyarados, it can even crit Pokemon with Battle/Shell Armor.
  • Togekiss
    • Super Luck turn every move into a high-crit move, and Lucky Chant is an option for more defensive sets.
  • Kartana
    • Leaf Blade, Night Slash, and Psycho Cut all constantly crit. Even Sacred Sword and Smart Strike have a ~21% chance to crit due to Kartana's high base speed. Definitely banworthy.
  • Superfast Pokemon (Tapu Koko, Mega Alakazam, Mega Beedrill, Ash Greninja, etc.)
    • All these Pokemon have more than a 25% chance to crit, with the faster ones approaching 30%.
A feature of Gen 1 crits that you haven't mentioned but might consider implementing is that they ignore all stat changes, not just beneficial ones. On one hand, Pokemon like Drapion, Crawdaunt, and Togekiss couldn't combine Swords Dance or Nasty Plot with crit spam, and Kartana might actually be bearable. On the other hand, every setup sweeper would have a random to get completely screwed over. Because of the random screwing of setup sweepers, I don't think adding this would be a good idea.
 
/COMMAND/Moves
Swampert mega.png

Metagame premise:
Every turn, before choosing a move:
The players can enter a command in the chat to order their opponent to use a move in addition to the move they choose to use for themselves.
  • It doesn't matter if the move they order the opponent to use is learnable. For example, a Magic Bounce Espeon can force a Doublade to use Spore.
  • The commanded move is faster than a +5 priority move but slower than switching. So the opponent can for example switch its Doublade to a mon immune to Spore to sponge the sleep from a Magic Bounce Espeon, but if it chooses to use Shadow Sneak, then Doublade will be put to sleep before it can use it.
  • The commanded move is hidden to the opponent until the beggining of the "fight" part of the turn.
  • The fastest mon uses first the move its opponent commanded it to.
  • The /command to order your opponent to use its commanded move is actually /order but is subject to change.
  • The move Me First, even when used as a commanded move, only uses the move the opponent chooses for itself, as usual. Copycat, Mimic and Mirror Move can copy a commanded move, though.
Clauses and potential bans and suspects:
Classic OU clauses +
Sleep clause : Forbids to command a sleep-inducing move if a Pokemon of the opponent is asleep.
Evasion clause : Doesn't forbid to command the opponent to use Evasion-raising moves. Players are free to force their opponent to use Minimize to double the power of moves such as Stomp.
Endless battle clause : If an opponent is trapped by an ability or a move, forbids to command Recycle, Heal Pulse and any recovery move.

Moves banned from being commanded are :
  • Status trapping moves : Ingrain, Fairy Lock, Block, Mean Look and Spider Web.
  • Moves that forces a Pokemon out : Volt Switch, Baton Pass, U-Turn, Whirlwind, Roar, Parting Shot, Circle Throw, Dragon Tail.
  • Moves that should last more than one turn : Bounce, Dig, Dive, Fly, Freeze Shock, Geomancy, Ice Burn, Phantom Force, Razor Wind, Shadow Force, Skull Bash, Sky Attack, Sky Drop, Solar Beam, Solar Blade, Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant, Giga Impact, Hydro Cannon, Hyper Beam, Prismatic Laser, Roar of Time, Rock Wrecker, Ice Ball, Outrage, Petal Dance, Rollout, Thrash, Uproar.
  • OHKO moves : Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Sheer Cold, Explosion, Self-Destruct, Memento, Final Gambit.
  • Rest and Encore
Potential suspects are :
  • Magic Bounce
  • Mind Blown
  • Anger Point
Questions for the community:
How could i improve this?
Is there something else that looks ban-worthy or suspect-worthy?
Should a mon holding an assault vest/choice item be locked from using commanded moves conflicting with the item? (for example, a status move for a mon holding an assault vest)
 
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I dont get it, if the opposing mon gets commanded it loses a turn and has to use what has been forced to use? If it is that way i think it will be really dumb when against offense, just force everyone to rest (spore basically), psycho shift, head smash or w/e with ur faster mon and just get free turns with ur sweeper

Phasing kinda becomes dumb too, set up a few hazards then switch in scarf espeon and spam command them to whirlwind, and let them die slowly to chip similarly to comaphazing

Also why not give immunity to dazzling and queenly majesty? Its not like those mons were amazing anyways, i think they deserve a niche in this meta
 
I dont get it, if the opposing mon gets commanded it loses a turn and has to use what has been forced to use? If it is that way i think it will be really dumb when against offense, just force everyone to rest (spore basically), psycho shift, head smash or w/e with ur faster mon and just get free turns with ur sweeper

Phasing kinda becomes dumb too, set up a few hazards then switch in scarf espeon and spam command them to whirlwind, and let them die slowly to chip similarly to comaphazing

Also why not give immunity to dazzling and queenly majesty? Its not like those mons were amazing anyways, i think they deserve a niche in this meta
Sorry for badly explaining :
Your opponent is indeed forced to use the move you command it to, but it addition to that can use its own move.
So, for example; you can force your opponent to use Frost Breath to your Anger Point mon... and that's the point of the meta, kinda.
But on the other hand, you have stuff like priority Haze and Heal Pulse to sort of balance it.

Phazing and stuff like that is also banned.

Also yeah, you're right, i'm unbanning Dazzling and Queenly Majesty. (i don't know why i wanted to ban them in the first place)
 
Oh ok that sounds more interesting then, offense gets cool possibilities like commanding swagger onto ur lum berry mon, or bisharp commanding a mon to defog

Stall gets interesting options like haze, heal pulse as u mentioned, or even better heart swap to give u the boosts

Cool idea, with a bit of balancing could be lots of fun
 
What happens if you hold an Assault Vest and the opponent commands you to use a status move? Or a Choice item, but choice items sound terrible here on general principle because the opponent will decide what move you get choice-locked into.

Now, since commanded moves go in speed order...

Stop Hitting Yourself (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
- Worry Seed (for Magic Guard)
- Knock Off (for Protective Pads)
- filler
- filler

Beat Up doesn't make contact for some reason, so keep ordering your opponents to use Fake Out at first, preventing you from using any moves that turn, then follow that up by making them go for Triple Kick next turn (or hope for a good roll on something like Arm Thrust or Fury Attack).
 
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What happens if you hold an Assault Vest and the opponent commands you to use a status move? Or a Choice item, but choice items sound terrible here on general principle because the opponent will decide what move you get choice-locked into.
Actually :
Despite the Assault Vest, your mon can still use the move it was commanded to.

But that's actually a pretty interesting point ; and if that allows a more competitive play, then it could be changed.
I'm adding that to the Questions for the Community.
 
OHKO moves and suicide moves are on the banlist of moves you can't make them use. However, if you have a slow Final Gambit user, you can order them to use Me First and they will pick up your Final Gambit that way, then (assuming you survived) your use of the move will fail because there's no target, and you will not faint. L1 Sturdy Berry Juice Shuckle seems ideal in that regard, picking up 3 free KOs, or if you're worried about running into Mold Breaker then some random L1 Sash mon could at least get 2.
 
Pkay. Weather, Terrain and Trick Room abusers can get their opponent to set the conditions they want for them, opponing up moveslots, abilities, mon and turns to make them more available (of course, they're easily countered).

Flash Fire users tell the opponent to spam fire moves at them. Similar things can be done with Lightning Rod, Sap Sipper, Water Absorb, Motor Drive, Justified, Rattled etc.

Own Tempo users order the opponent to Flatter/Swagger

Use Powder while telling the opponent to use a fire move.

Poison Heal, Toxic Boost, Guts, Quick Feet users free up their item slot as they can gain the status they need by ordering the opponent.

No one needs to run Defog as you can order your opponent to use it.

Speaking of which, run Competitive/Defiant/Contrary users and order the opponent to spam stat-lowering moves.

Oricorio can order the opponent to Dance. Just make sure the dance benefits Oricorio more than the opponent.

What happens if you order the opponent to use Sketch? Mimic? Struggle? Inferno Overdrive? Dark Void? Hyperspace Fury?
 
Stance Changers
<--->

Metagame premise: Every mon gets Stance Change as its abilitiy - in a similar manner to Aegislash's Stance Change. Every pokemon starts in its Shield Forme when sent out, changes to its Blade Forme when using a damaging move and changes back to Shield Forme when using Protect or one of its clones. The Shield and Blade forms for each mon are determined with the following method:
  • Like Aegislash, both formes have the same base HP and speed, which are the same as the regular mon's stats.
  • For the Shield Forme's Def, the higher stat between Atk and Def is choosen, the lower one becomes its Atk stat.
  • For the Shield Forme's SpD, the higher stat between SpA and SpD is choosen, the lower one becomes its SpA stat.
  • For the Blade forme, the higher stat between Atk and Def becomes the new Atk stat, and the higher stat between Spa and SpD becomes the new SpA stat, while the lower stats become the new Def/SpD stats.
  • For example: Keldeo has a stat spread of 91/72/90/129/90/108. Its Shield Forme will have 91/72/90/90/129/108 and its Blade Forme will have 91/90/72/129/90/108.
  • If a pokemon mega-evolves, its new stat spread is used to generate the Shield and Blade Forme's stats.
This meta obviously favours mons with uneven stat spreads, while mons with perfectly balanced spreads like Mew get nothing. However, mons which want to utilize both of their formes have to have Protect or a clone like Baneful Bunker or Spiky Shield, if they learn that, in their moveset, which means that they may have to give up an important coverage move. And if they don't carry Protect, they can't switch back to their Shield Forme until they switch out. Also, faster mons have the disadvantage of attacking - and changing to the frailer Blade Forme - before their opponent moves, so that they may hit the opponent's bulky shield forme and then get hit while being in the Blade Forme.

Potential bans and threats: Especially pokémon with very uneven stat spreads like Stakataka, Xurkitree, Aggron, Shuckle, Hoopa-Unbound or Kyurem-Black may be banworthy due to being crazy bulky in their shield forme and immensily strong in their Blade Forme.

Aegislash should be unbanned from Ubers, as with every mon having Stance Change it can be checked much easier; but it has fairly high stat changes and King's Shield can still force 50-50s.

Questions for the community:
  • Do you like that idea and would you play it?
  • Which mons might be banworthy apart from those I mentioned?
  • Should mons keep their regular ability in addition to their version of Stance Change or not?
 
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final gambit is a self sacrificing move which is banned right?

also this seems like a cool meta although sticky web is annoying also how would it work if you use a non stetch able move like chatter? on top of this you could have a magic bounce user have the foe use disable while you use encore then the foe has to use block if they switch just go through the same process 1 turn can cause them to use struggle that's very gimicy but it could be pretty fun
 
You can't command the opponent to use Final Gambit, but if you include Final Gambit in your own moveset naturally (which is currently legal), you can click that as your regular move for the turn and command your opponent to use Me First instead. Then if their move doesn't fail (i.e. you're not using Shedinja, and they don't rework the format rules so that Assault Vest properly prevents them from being suckered into using status moves), and you have enough HP to survive the hit (or sash or sturdy), yours will fail, and you do the same thing again next turn.
 

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