Metagame Workshop

[sun_dew]

BATON PASS: THE METAGAME
no not every switch is going to be a baton pass
PREMISE: Have a good Pokémon who’s incredibly frail? All you need is a bulky ‘mon on your team. When you switch from Pokémon to Pokémon, the new Pokémon gains a stat boost from the last Pokémon’s highest stat. This doesn’t stack, though, and if the stat is HP, the second highest will be picked.
POTENTIAL BANS: Nothing I can think of, but I’ll bet there’s a ton of broken ‘mons.
QUESTIONS: Is there any Pokémon that would be classified as “Very Broken”? And is there any better name?

 

[Author_Pendragon]

BATON PASS: THE METAGAME
no not every switch is going to be a baton pass
PREMISE: Have a good Pokémon who’s incredibly frail? All you need is a bulky ‘mon on your team. When you switch from Pokémon to Pokémon, the new Pokémon gains a stat boost from the last Pokémon’s highest stat. This doesn’t stack, though, and if the stat is HP, the second highest will be picked.
POTENTIAL BANS: Nothing I can think of, but I’ll bet there’s a ton of broken ‘mons.
QUESTIONS: Is there any Pokémon that would be classified as “Very Broken”? And is there any better name?
HIGHLIGHTS:

HIGH STAT ATTACKER -> MEGA HERACROSS
View attachment 157590
Heracross normally takes up a move slot and a turn to get their attacking stat up. However, thanks to this meta, Mega Heracross can do incredible amounts of damage, and (Possibly?) could be banned.

NO-ONE ELSE YET

Hoops gonna flex. Not sure why Heracross would get banned tbh. Not many Pokemon have higher attack stats, and it doesn't really use an increased one that well. It's also not the best stat passer either

 

[DrPumpkinz]

BATON PASS: THE METAGAME
no not every switch is going to be a baton pass
PREMISE: Have a good Pokémon who’s incredibly frail? All you need is a bulky ‘mon on your team. When you switch from Pokémon to Pokémon, the new Pokémon gains a stat boost from the last Pokémon’s highest stat. This doesn’t stack, though, and if the stat is HP, the second highest will be picked.
POTENTIAL BANS: Nothing I can think of, but I’ll bet there’s a ton of broken ‘mons.
QUESTIONS: Is there any Pokémon that would be classified as “Very Broken”? And is there any better name?
HIGHLIGHTS:

HIGH STAT ATTACKER -> MEGA HERACROSS
View attachment 157590
Heracross normally takes up a move slot and a turn to get their attacking stat up. However, thanks to this meta, Mega Heracross can do incredible amounts of damage, and (Possibly?) could be banned.

NO-ONE ELSE YET

Is the stat boost determined by base stats, or actual stats, aka the stats after EVs, IVs, and Natures are taken into account?

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

BATON PASS: THE METAGAME
no not every switch is going to be a baton pass
PREMISE: Have a good Pokémon who’s incredibly frail? All you need is a bulky ‘mon on your team. When you switch from Pokémon to Pokémon, the new Pokémon gains a stat boost from the last Pokémon’s highest stat. This doesn’t stack, though, and if the stat is HP, the second highest will be picked.
POTENTIAL BANS: Nothing I can think of, but I’ll bet there’s a ton of broken ‘mons.
QUESTIONS: Is there any Pokémon that would be classified as “Very Broken”? And is there any better name?
HIGHLIGHTS:

HIGH STAT ATTACKER -> MEGA HERACROSS
View attachment 157590
Heracross normally takes up a move slot and a turn to get their attacking stat up. However, thanks to this meta, Mega Heracross can do incredible amounts of damage, and (Possibly?) could be banned.

NO-ONE ELSE YET

I’m reaaaally not a fan of metas where you switch to get stat boosts / other postive effects. Switching is a powerful and integral mechanic to singles as is. You’re messing this whole thing up in a way that isn’t too creative for teambuilding, as well as favors sweepers that can get their corresponding stat boost for free after a sucidal lead / slow UTurn. I get that stall can still take advantage of this too, but then its almost like a +1 attack versus a +1defense, and theres little dynamic to it. Ultimately, I’ll pass on this meta.

However, imagine a meta where Baton Pass is 100% legal and is added to everyone’s movepool. It can be just like that crazy time in gen 6 OU but even crazier.

Personally I actually liked the full blown baton pass teams that dominated the meta, but obviously I knew they had to go because of how overwhelmingly centralized they were for OU. But, a whole OM dedicated to that meta would be cool to try again! At least from my standpoint, I would have fun going back to preban Baton Pass OU.

 

[urkerab]

Passing Shell Smash onto Krook would be effective if Shell Smash wasn't banned from being passed.

Sorry, I so was surprised Quiver Dance was not banned, that I didn't think to check...

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Sorry, I so was surprised Quiver Dance was not banned, that I didn't think to check...

I don’t think Quiver Dance is that bad personally - it’s basically a special Dragon Dance, and you have to bring Volcarona which of course is 4x weak to Steal Rock. Anyway this is all pure theorymon at this point.

 

[sun_dew]

Is the stat boost determined by base stats, or actual stats, aka the stats after EVs, IVs, and Natures are taken into account?

Actual stats.

 

[NotInMyChristianServer]

Hello! Here's other thing I came up trying to sleep, and I think it will never actually be an actual OM, but sharing ideas is cool:

Locked Moves
Metagame Premise: At switchin, your mon only can use it's first moveslot, all the others are "locked". To unlock your other moves, your mon need to stay in battle during a certain amount of turns (1 turn for second, 3 for the third, and 5 for the fourth) (Moves unlock at the ending of a turn). This create situations where you're forced to switch out because your attacker doesn't have it's coverage move available, or just stalling to get your moves unlocked (Also choice attackers are pretty much one-trick ponies at this point, forced to run U-turn or Trick).

Potencial Bans & Threats: There's nothing banworthy really, but U-turn/Volt Switch, Fake Out, and Protect will be the more popular first moves on pretty much everyone. Phazing & Toxic will be pretty important parts of Stall (and possibly balance), since it forces the opponent to switch out, resetting the Lock over your opponent's mons' moves. Spikes also will be an inportant part, since you'll always try to force switches. Also, there's the Choice Item + Trick/Switcheroo combo, a total nightmare for Non-Mega Sableye stall.

Questions: Should be a smaller amount of turns to unlock your moves?

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Hello! Here's other thing I came up trying to sleep, and I think it will never actually be an actual OM, but sharing ideas is cool:

Locked Moves
Metagame Premise: At switchin, your mon only can use it's first moveslot, all the others are "locked". To unlock your other moves, your mon need to stay in battle during a certain amount of turns (1 turn for second, 3 for the third, and 5 for the fourth) (Moves unlock at the ending of a turn). This create situations where you're forced to switch out because your attacker doesn't have it's coverage move available, or just stalling to get your moves unlocked (Also choice attackers are pretty much one-trick ponies at this point, forced to run U-turn or Trick).

Potencial Bans & Threats: There's nothing banworthy really, but U-turn/Volt Switch, Fake Out, and Protect will be the more popular first moves on pretty much everyone. Phazing & Toxic will be pretty important parts of Stall (and possibly balance), since it forces the opponent to switch out, resetting the Lock over your opponent's mons' moves. Spikes also will be an inportant part, since you'll always try to force switches. Also, there's the Choice Item + Trick/Switcheroo combo, a total nightmare for Non-Mega Sableye stall.

Questions: Should be a smaller amount of turns to unlock your moves?

Honestly I would not play this. As someone who launched an unsuccessful OM, I can tell you that the key to making a good OM is by giving Pokemon more options, not less.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I've had a meta idea on the back burner for a while, and before I continue my research for it, I thought it might be wise to see what people think of it.

Move Full Potential (working title)

Basically, any nerfs to the base power, accuracy, PP, or special effects of a move that have happened over the generations are undone, while any buffs are kept. Here's what I have so far:

Hide

Absorb- 40 power, 25 PP
Acid- 30% chance to lower Sp. Def
Air Slash- 20 PP
Aura Sphere- 90 power
Barrier- 30 PP
Blizzard- 120 power, 90% accuracy, 30% chance to freeze, hits though Protect 30% of the time under Hail
Bubble- 33.2% chance of lowering speed
Bubble Beam- 30% chance of lowering speed
Constrict- 30% chance to lower speed
Cotton Spore- affects Grass types
Crush Grip- 121 max power
Dark Void- 80% accuracy
Dig- 100 power
Double-Edge- 1/4 recoil
Draco Meteor- 140 power
Dragon Pulse- 90 power
Explosion- halves the target's defense
Extrasensory- 30 PP
Feint- 50 power
Fire Blast- 120 power, 30% chance to burn
Fire Fang- ignores Wonder Guard
Flamethrower- 95 power
Follow Me- +3 priority
Future Sight- 15 PP
Growth- 40 PP
Haze- removes major status conditions of the user
Heat Wave- 100 power
High Jump Kick- 20 PP, takes 1 damage when crashing
Hurricane- 120 power
Hydro Pump- 120 power
Hyper Beam- knocking out the target skips the recharge
Hypnosis- 70% accuracy
Ice Beam- 95 power
Jump Kick- 25 power, takes 1 damage when crashing
Knock Off- 25 PP
Leaf Storm- 140 power
Leech Life- 15 PP
Low Kick- 30% chance to flinch
Magma Storm- 120 power
Mega Drain- 75 power, 15 PP
Meteor Mash- 100 power
Minimize- 20 PP
Muddy Water- 95 power
Nightmare- perfect accuracy
Night Shade- ignores type immunities
Outrage- 15 PP
Overheat- 140 power
Payback- power doubles if the target switches out
Petal Dance- 20 PP
Poison Powder- affects Grass types
Powder- affects Grass types
Psychic- 30% chance to lower special defense
Rage Powder- +3 priority, affects Grass types
Recover- 20 PP
Rest- works when called by Sleep Talk
Roar- 0 priority (BANNED)
Sacred Sword- 20 PP
Safeguard- prevents self status, aside from Rest
Seismic Toss- not affected by type immunities
Self-Destruct- halves the target's defense
Sheer Cold- hits Ice types, accuracy is not lowered when used by a non Ice type
Skull Bash- 15 PP
Sky Attack- 200 power
Sleep Powder- affects Grass types
Sludge- 40% chance to poison
Solar Beam- 200 power
Sonic Boom- hits Ghost types
Spore- affects Grass types
Stun Spore- affects Grass types

There have been three instances where it's not clear whether a move was buffed or nerfed, so I just ignored them:

• Gen 1 partial trapping moves are functionally completely different, as they're essentially weak Outrage with 100% flinch rate
• Low Kick used to have a consistent base power, which is greater than some of the weaker base powers of current Low Kick
• Hidden Power's variable base power seems like a buff, but (I'm pretty sure) it means you can't run 0 Attack IVs on a special attacker, or 0 Speed IVs on a Trick Room mon

Questions for the community:

• Does this sound too much like a Pet Mod?
• Is this too similar to normal play? There is a few interesting stuff like Hyper Beam skipping recharge upon fainting a target, Explosion being super strong, and Feint being a better Quick Attack, but for the most part, moves are just slightly stronger.

EDIT: The more I research moves that got nerfed, the more a lot of this feel arbitrary and pushing more towards boring Pet Mod territory. Unless someone REALLY thinks this would be fun, I think I'm going to let this idea pass.

 

[Fosite]

I have a bit of a left-field idea for a Pet Mod (not even sure if it even is a Pet Mod tbh - could be more "out there"). Anyway, introducing...

Project Mother
Premise: The game Mother 3, sometimes known as Earthbound 2, has 100+ unique enemies that could be made into Pokemon. The idea of the pet mod would be to have a pet mod where you battle with these enemies instead of Pokemon, all while staying true to the mechanics of Pokemon. I think it would be a cool way of having a completely different type of meta compared to what we see in Pokemon, with the possibility for unique niches but without the exhausting effort put into stuff like CAP.

Bans & Threats: Not really applicable to this pet mod - plus if something's too strong it can be either nerfed or just ban it/create more checks and counters for it.

Example: Here's an example I made as a demonstration of the idea:

Ancient Dragonfly
Fire / Dragon
Speed Boost
48 HP | 118 Atk | 55 Def | 118 Sp. Atk | 55 Sp. Def | 84 Spe
BST: 475​

Obviously, if it's a pet mod, things should be agreed upon by the community. For now, the stats are roughly based on Mother 3's enemy stats (though they get higher the later you go in the game, especially HP).

Here's a couple more examples if you're interested:

Hide

Chilly Dog
Ice
Ice Body
73 HP | 88 Atk | 66 Def | 108 Sp. Atk | 73 Sp. Def | 108 Spe
BST: 516​

Clayman
Ground
Sticky Hold / Iron Fist
200 HP | 70 Atk | 70 Def | 40 Sp. Atk | 40 Sp. Def | 5 Spe
BST: 425​

From an implementation point of view, most of the Mother 3 enemies even have back sprites:

Conclusion: In a way, I can't help but feel like it's a little too good to be true. So anyway, I'm not sure if this actually a Pet Mod or something bigger (in which case, where do I post my idea?). But even if it's not, I'd still want to do this project if people are still keen or just love the Mother/Earthbound series. If you want a list of enemies to make your own ideas, here's a list: https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Mother_3_enemies

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I have a bit of a left-field idea for a Pet Mod (not even sure if it even is a Pet Mod tbh - could be more "out there"). Anyway, introducing...

Project Mother
Premise: The game Mother 3, sometimes known as Earthbound 2, has 100+ unique enemies that could be made into Pokemon. The idea of the pet mod would be to have a pet mod where you battle with these enemies instead of Pokemon, all while staying true to the mechanics of Pokemon. I think it would be a cool way of having a completely different type of meta compared to what we see in Pokemon, with the possibility for unique niches but without the exhausting effort put into stuff like CAP.

Bans & Threats: Not really applicable to this pet mod - plus if something's too strong it can be either nerfed or just ban it/create more checks and counters for it.

Example: Here's an example I made as a demonstration of the idea:

Ancient Dragonfly
Fire / Dragon
Speed Boost
48 HP | 118 Atk | 55 Def | 118 Sp. Atk | 55 Sp. Def | 84 Spe
BST: 475​

Obviously, if it's a pet mod, things should be agreed upon by the community. For now, the stats are roughly based on Mother 3's enemy stats (though they get higher the later you go in the game, especially HP).

Here's a couple more examples if you're interested:

Hide

Chilly Dog
Ice
Ice Body
73 HP | 88 Atk | 66 Def | 108 Sp. Atk | 73 Sp. Def | 108 Spe
BST: 516

Clayman
Ground
Sticky Hold / Iron Fist
200 HP | 70 Atk | 70 Def | 40 Sp. Atk | 40 Sp. Def | 5 Spe
BST: 425​

From an implementation point of view, most of the Mother 3 enemies even have back sprites:

Conclusion: In a way, I can't help but feel like it's a little too good to be true. So anyway, I'm not sure if this actually a Pet Mod or something bigger (in which case, where do I post my idea?). But even if it's not, I'd still want to do this project if people are still keen or just love the Mother/Earthbound series. If you want a list of enemies to make your own ideas, here's a list: https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Mother_3_enemies

The problem with a lot of themed Pet Mods is they tend to be off putting to people who aren't fans of that particular theme, and they generally tend to run out of steam after a while (remember Poke Emblem?). I'm not saying this to discourage you, but be prepared.

 

[Fosite]

The problem with a lot of themed Pet Mods is they tend to be off putting to people who aren't fans of that particular theme, and they generally tend to run out of steam after a while (remember Poke Emblem?). I'm not saying this to discourage you, but be prepared.

In defence of my idea, I'd imagine it would be more broadly appealing than something like Poke Emblem because it still plays like regular Pokemon and doesn't really require any extra thought besides hopping online and fetching a Team Builder.

I do admit stuff like base stats and movepools would probably have to be streamlined by 2/3 people as otherwise the community creation process would be too slow. Rather the community would focus on typing and abilities, plus one or two notable moves to help define the "Pokemon"'s niche. Hopefully this would make things run more smoothly so people can actually get down to battling with each other.

My problem with something like Poke Emblem is that while it captures the essence of Fire Emblem Heroes (which already has a skill system that can be overwhelmingly complicated), Poke Emblem takes it couple steps further by introducing it to Pokemon and thus makes it more complicated than FEH. FEH only has 4 "types" in their rock-paper-scissors scheme while Pokemon has 18, and FEH characters only have to deal with 1 weapon, 1 map-based skill and 3 skills whereas Pokemon in Poke Emblem have to have their A, B, C skills, a moveset of 4 and have to consider teambuilding for 6 Pokemon versus FEH's 4.

As a result, I think Poke Emblem ends up being a lot more complicated than this idea, which in theory should probably be simper than actual Pokemon since there are less "Pokemon" and so it's easier to remember what's good to use.

 

[azertyuiop2]

Hello everyone ! I would like to suggest some ideas for OMs I have been thinking about, one at a time. My apologizes by advance if they have already been found and discussed, but of course I first checked the resource about "rejected metagame ideas". Here is the first one:

-Hazards justice
Metagame premise: Any switching-in pokémon removes hazards of its type(s) (rock typed pokémon remove stealth rock / ground ones remove spikes / bug ones remove sticky web / poison ones works as usual for toxik spikes)
Potential bans and threats: (none as far as I know, OU-based)
Questions for the community: (none as far as I know)

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Hello everyone ! I would like to suggest some ideas for OMs I have been thinking about, one at a time. My apologizes by advance if they have already been found and discussed, but of course I first checked the resource about "rejected metagame ideas". Here is the first one:

-Hazards justice
Metagame premise: Any switching-in pokémon removes hazards of its type(s) (rock typed pokémon remove stealth rock / ground ones remove spikes / bug ones remove sticky web / poison ones works as usual for toxik spikes)
Potential bans and threats: (none as far as I know, OU-based)
Questions for the community: (none as far as I know)

I see Water types being dominant in this meta, as they prey on the Rock and Ground types. I could see Cradily getting a small niche as a Stealth Rock remover that threatens Water types thanks to its Storm Drain ability and Grass typing, and mons like Volcarona would greatly appreciate the easier removal of hazards.

I think if we're going by the rules set by the interaction between Toxic Spikes and Poison types, then a Pokemon should only be able to remove a hazard if they would be affected by it. Basically, Ground and Bug types that have either Levitate, an Air Balloon, or a secondary Flying type wouldn't be able to remove Spikes and Sticky Web, respectively.

 

[azertyuiop2]

Hmm OK it has indeed sense ! Maybe Landorus removing spikes would be weird... Well I am not a top player so maybe I can't see all the implications, but of course I have no problem for changing in this way, so that it could be something like:
"Any switching-in pokémon removes hazards of its type(s) if they affect it"
(Other opinions ?)

 

[Foxxeyy]

Statmons (name undecided)


Mechanic: All of the Pokemon’s attacks are made equal to the Pokemon’s attacking or defending stat of that category. Example: Blacephalon comes in. It clicks Mind Blown (for whatever reason that’s stupid). Mind Blown is a special move. Blacephalon’s SpA > SpD. Therefore the moves power = SpA stat of Blacephalon (base not actual). But if a chansey came in and clicked [insert special move here], then it would be on the SpD base stat rather than SpA.

Q+A

Q: what about moves like Seismic Toss and Psywave?
A: they change to the stat as well

Q: what?
A: I am talking about the highest base stat of one catergory (the one matching the move, either SpD or SpA for special and Atk and Def for physical). The base stat = the base power of the move

Q: what’s the point of the attacking stat if things are gonna run of defensive.
A: the attacking stats still pay a part in how much damage, but the Base Power is run off the higher stat of the catergory

Questions for community

Would you play this?
How would you changed this?
Is this too complicated?
What would get it past the mods?
Any questions?

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Statmons (name undecided)


Mechanic: All of the Pokemon’s attacks are made equal to the Pokemon’s attacking or defending stat of that category. Example: Blacephalon comes in. It clicks Mind Blown (for whatever reason that’s stupid). Mind Blown is a special move. Blacephalon’s SpA > SpD. Therefore the moves power = SpA stat of Blacephalon (base not actual). But if a chansey came in and clicked [insert special move here], then it would be on the SpD base stat rather than SpA.

Q+A

Q: what about moves like Seismic Toss and Psywave?
A: they change to the stat as well

Q: what’s the point of the attacking stat if things are gonna run of defensive.
A: the attacking stats still pay a part in how much damage, but the Base Power is run off the higher stat of the catergory

Questions for community

Would you play this?
How would you changed this?
Is this too complicated?
What would get it past the mods?
Any questions?

That meta already exists, it's called Full Potential.

 

[Foxxeyy]

That meta already exists, it's called Full Potential.

*similar. Full Potential talks about the stats, mine is the BP

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

*similar. Full Potential talks about the stats, mine is the BP

So you change the move's base power to the Pokemon's highest stat? Goodra and Electrode could have base 657 power moves with an Assault Vest / Choice Scarf. Oh and what about Swords Dance Kartana? After 1 turn of set up, you're looking at moves with more than 900 BP. Being brutally honest, this meta is unplayable.

Calcs

252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra Dragon Pulse (657 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 910-1072 (129.4 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Stakataka Earthquake (573 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 574-676 (166.8 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Leaf Blade (691 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 307-362 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Foxxeyy]

So you change the move's base power to the Pokemon's highest stat? Goodra and Electrode could have base 657 power moves with an Assault Vest / Choice Scarf. Oh and what about Swords Dance Kartana? After 1 turn of set up, you're looking at moves with more than 900 BP. Being brutally honest, this meta is unplayable.

Calcs

252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra Dragon Pulse (657 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 910-1072 (129.4 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Stakataka Earthquake (573 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 574-676 (166.8 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Leaf Blade (691 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 307-362 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Incorrect. I am talking about the highest stat of one catergory (the one matching the move, either SpD or SpA for special and Atk and Def for physical). The base stat = the base power of the move


Sorry guys

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Incorrect. I am talking about the highest stat of one catergory (the one matching the move, either SpD or SpA for special and Atk and Def for physical). The base stat = the base power of the move


Sorry guys

If it's the base stat then that's still pretty insane. Blacephlaon has drawback free 151 BP moves, Kartana gets 181 base power moves, Landorus-T has 145 base power move etc. And as it's the stat the determins the power of the move, what about moves like Fell Stinger and Power Up Punch? Say hello to Mega Beedrill having a 300 power move (STAB + Adaptability) that gives it a +3 Attack boost if it kills the enemy. Would priority moves be affected by this? And what about multi hit moves?

This meta seems like an unholy cross between Full Potential and Move Equality, and I have to be honest, I would never play it.

 

[Schpoonman]

This metagame might need some work. ALL of Blacephalon's physical attacks (Knock Off, Flame Charge) have 127 base power and ALL of its special attacks (Shadow Ball, Flamethrower) have 151 base power. So on and so forth, meaning Kartana's every attack is a Z-move.

Alternately, set up SD with Mega Pinsir and Feint your way through the metagame.

Ninja: Wow, ChrystalFalchion, really? Two minutes before I posted?

 

[SadisticMystic]

Let's not forget Cloyster getting those 5-hit, 180-power Icicle Spears, with tons of PP too. That's the thing about formats like this, you have Powder Snow vs. Blizzard and you completely clobber the main trait that normally sets those moves apart, so now Powder Snow is just plain better here because it has the same power, better accuracy, and five times as much PP. Other moves might as well be replaced with their early-game counterparts for the same reason, unless they have unique, highly desirable side effects.

 

[Kowasabii]

Rapid fire
Very simple metagame, each turn you have a 15 second timer.
Matches are played in OU.
Battles are fast paced, filled with errors. I bet it would be fun! Battles would go much quicker too.