Yeah, sorry buddy. People typically don’t like RNG elements like this because it removes player agency from the game.
People want to be in control of their wins and loses.
-
Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!
-
Follow our Instagram!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2025 Smog Awards!
Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
Yeah, sorry buddy. People typically don’t like RNG elements like this because it removes player agency from the game.
People want to be in control of their wins and loses.
ADV tradeforwards
An ADV OM where Pokemon can use moves they lost from gen 2, like Espeed dragonite or lovely kiss snorlax
An ADV OM where Pokemon can use moves they lost from gen 2, like Espeed dragonite or lovely kiss snorlax
pretty sure that exists and not sure if this is the place for past gens. glad to see you thinking of new things tho!
Please forgive me if someone has suggested something near identical to this idea, the other day I realised that if you wanted to make an OM with a custom stat you could use the number of unused EVs for that custom stat, and this was my first immediate idea. I know this idea is similar to the not allowed "Consistency mons" idea, but I would argue that this incarnation of the idea is easy to understand and somewhat balanced.
Luckmons
Have you ever been annoyed at luck based effects and wished you could improve your odds and make new strategies that are otherwise too improbable to use? You can in Luckmons, unused EV points form a new luck stat that boosts the chance of luck based mechanics all the way up to 3x for no EVs used!
Rules:
Mechanic: Unused EV points linearly improve the chance of chance based effects from 1x at all 508 EVs invested to a maximum of 3x at 0 EVs invested.
Clauses: Standard OMs, Sleep moves clause, Terastal clause.
Bans: Razor fang, King's rock, Quick claw, Serene grace, (Most fast pokemon that could abuseflinchmaxxing annoying flinching), maybe the focus band as you could get a 30% chance to survive each hit, although I think player usage would have to be measured on this.
Strategy:
With inconsistent effects able to be more consistent at the cost of power and/or speed, new strategies emerge and new kinds of counterplay are possible.
Increased viability: Pokemon who try to inflict non voliatile status conditions without using status based moves, e.g Salazzle can invest half its EVs in speed, and poison almost any pokemon, including Gholdengo who would normally wall status based methods of inflicting poison. (I need help in thinking of what is better in this section)
Decreased viability: Gholdengo - effects inflicted by moves, Most status moves as an attack can likely do the same role but better.
Q&A:
Q: What is the exact formula for how luck affects things?
A: Effect base chance * (1 + Unused EVs / 254)
Q: What about moves that exceed 100% chance after being boosted?
A: Its capped at 100%, You should invest some of those EVs.
Q: If an attack triggers two different chance based effects how does luck affect them?
A: They are each individually boosted before the calculation.
Q: Does luck affect or reduce the chance of my opponent's effects from activating
A: Unfortunately not.
Q: Does luck affect accuracy.
A: Unfortunately not.
I would like to know if you think this is a viable idea and shakes up the metagame enough whilst being simple enough to understand.
I would also like to know if the general premise of unused EVs contributing to a custom stat is a unique idea or not, and what else you personally think the idea could be used for.
Luckmons
Have you ever been annoyed at luck based effects and wished you could improve your odds and make new strategies that are otherwise too improbable to use? You can in Luckmons, unused EV points form a new luck stat that boosts the chance of luck based mechanics all the way up to 3x for no EVs used!
Rules:
Mechanic: Unused EV points linearly improve the chance of chance based effects from 1x at all 508 EVs invested to a maximum of 3x at 0 EVs invested.
Clauses: Standard OMs, Sleep moves clause, Terastal clause.
Bans: Razor fang, King's rock, Quick claw, Serene grace, (Most fast pokemon that could abuse
Strategy:
With inconsistent effects able to be more consistent at the cost of power and/or speed, new strategies emerge and new kinds of counterplay are possible.
Increased viability: Pokemon who try to inflict non voliatile status conditions without using status based moves, e.g Salazzle can invest half its EVs in speed, and poison almost any pokemon, including Gholdengo who would normally wall status based methods of inflicting poison. (I need help in thinking of what is better in this section)
Decreased viability: Gholdengo - effects inflicted by moves, Most status moves as an attack can likely do the same role but better.
Q&A:
Q: What is the exact formula for how luck affects things?
A: Effect base chance * (1 + Unused EVs / 254)
Q: What about moves that exceed 100% chance after being boosted?
A: Its capped at 100%, You should invest some of those EVs.
Q: If an attack triggers two different chance based effects how does luck affect them?
A: They are each individually boosted before the calculation.
Q: Does luck affect or reduce the chance of my opponent's effects from activating
A: Unfortunately not.
Q: Does luck affect accuracy.
A: Unfortunately not.
I would like to know if you think this is a viable idea and shakes up the metagame enough whilst being simple enough to understand.
I would also like to know if the general premise of unused EVs contributing to a custom stat is a unique idea or not, and what else you personally think the idea could be used for.
Last edited:
that went completely over my head please explai
Basically if a pokemon like salazzle uses gunk shot, which has a 30% chance to poison the foe, the chance would be increased the less EV points you use.
You have 508 EVs available to invest in each pokemon, so if we invested 252 of them on salazzle's speed (the max available to invest on any one stat), and then invested none of the other 256 EVs remaining, the 30% chance would be increased by 256/254 or 100.7% essentially doubling the chance to poison the foe to 60.2%.
I hope this explains what you are confused about, if this didn't help, please specify what specifically you didn't understand.
i think that goes against the formulamons rule, and generally only applies to certain moves / mons so i would not accept the idea personally, but the remaining evs concept is cool, keep being creative and awesome!
Unfortunately this isn’t possible on Showdown and would be beyond OMs since its an entirely new stat.
You can instead do “Haxmons” (not to be confused with Hackmons) where Hax is guaranteed. I believe that was an OM years ago. It ironically made the game less luck based since anything that can miss would miss and anything that would flinch would flinch every time.
Maybe each unused EV could become +1% to accuracy and hax? Like you don't use 4 EVs, so your Iron Head goes from a 30% flinch rate to a 34% flinch rate. Idk how hard that would be to code tho
Covert Cloak looks like it has steeply increased viability in this meta, as 3x a 0% chance is still a 0% chance. Of course, the Cloak users aren't wearing Boots, and Knock Off does away with both items, so I'd leave Covert Cloak unbanned for now.
would it be crazy to have a format called "Ban-Hammer" where you bring 6 or 8 mons then you ban 2 of the opponents and then battle? now writing this i realize it wouldnt really be its own meta except mons who have a couple bad weaknesses and are rock solid otherwise
It just the absence of EVs out of 508, we can measure that at any hook in the simulator, such as before the secondary chance of moves occurs, change the number of rolls the RNG system uses appropriately and this OM would essentially be done.
I only say its a new stat because functionally it would behave like one for luck based scenarios.
If I have some free time this weekend, I'll look into coding this concept to work in the simulator.
That's just a fancy way of saying a new stat. It's still some number that you can measure and alter by distributing EVs. It is effectively the same as any other stat, but invisible and can invest more into it than other stats.