Metagamiate!

Will aerilate talonflame's return still have priority? It says that anything that already has an -ate ability will keep that ability, so I would assume the primary ability went before the secondary -ate ability, but I'm not sure.
 

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
Thought I'd share a lead that I think is perfect for the metagame:

Forretress @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
This is suited for how clearly offensive the meta is. Stealth Rocks are amazing in this, as many mons are x2 weak to them (Weavile, aerodactyl, entei) and many times, teams forego hazard removal so they can have another offensive threat! If this is the case, spam hazards away! In addition, this set gets an extremely powerful boosted explosion, which forretress will get off more times than not due to custap berry. EVs are to maximize the power of explosion and to give it a chance to remove opposing team hazards vs other things like another forretress. Bug or steel explosion is user's choice, I prefer steel, but bug can beat things like Ferrothorn, when it is attempting to spread its own hazards. Other options have endure, if you really want to get that explosion off, or toxic spikes.
 
This isn't a bug, just so you know. Essentially, Gale Wings has a higher priority haha than -ate abilities in terms of the order in which they activate, so Talon doesn't get +1 priority from an Aerilate boosted move as the GW check is done first.
Hmm, since there isn't a case of two abilities on cartridge this is kind of up to debate. I'd say it's a bug, and it results from what you just stated (onModifyMove's priority being too low).

Oh well, I guess Talon is useless if this is intended :\
 
Hmm, since there isn't a case of two abilities on cartridge this is kind of up to debate. I'd say it's a bug, and it results from what you just stated (onModifyMove's priority being too low).

Oh well, I guess Talon is useless if this is intended :\
It isn't even so. Talonflame now has both fire AND flying priority (qa and bb), so it can overwhelm many usual threats. Besides, it isn't bad.
 
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Theres still quit a few bug, such as unavailable shinies being unplayable (RIP shiny zygarde, best espeed revenge killer and best colors ever).

About regular zygarde, i have really been appreciating protect on it, as it has really few checks on offense (whichis the only playstyle viable rn) bar weavile, which it can pass through thanks to this. i will try to get some replays, but i have used protect on almost every game due to how prevalent weavile is, and because people will just fodder their mon thinking weavile will revenge, letting you setup.

An other mon that might have a lot of potential as a sweeper is gyarados, as it resists all espeeds, and has nearly perfect coverage with earthquake+ aerilate return.

I have also found skarmory to remain a great wall, as it can check zygarde, scizor, weavile,... rocky helmet is really nice due to how common return and espeed are. Finally it sets up rocks, which are great against many common threats such as entei, noivern, weavile...
However, i am still looking for a good hazard setter that is not either too passive or a suicide lead
 
Can I just say how ridiculously powerful medicham is? With dual priority combined with powerful STABS in HJK and Return, medicham can break down slower offensive (and even the rare defensive) mons and revenge all frail attackers.

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Return (132 BP Psychic) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 137-162 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Your "medicham check" gets 2hkod after a few stealth rock switch ins.

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out (52 BP Psychic) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew (Normal-Type): 156-184 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO

This thing is literally doing almost 50% with fake out on 0/0 mew.
 
The Immortal There is a problem with Talonflame Aerilate + Gale Wings. Normal-Type attacks that are changed into flying-type attacks aren't given priority with gale wings.

This imgur link shows when i was outsped (by a hawlucha not using priority), the effect of an -ate ability (changes the type of the attack), and proof my talonflame had aerilate + gale wings: http://imgur.com/a/GIWQL

This replay shows the battle, turn 5 is when it happened although at the time of this post the replay website is down for updates: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/metagamiate-338535622

I have discussed this issue with a few people and it seems in this metagame the -ate ability comes into effect after turn order is determined (?). I do not understand code but I feel as if this may be an error. If talonflame's Frustration is a flying-type attack it should be given priority right? I understand there is no way to test this in-game nor is there any other pokemon given priority by its ability, but in this certain case there may be an error in the coding or simply a discrepancy in the info for this metagame.

If talonflame's normal-type attacks converted into flying-type attacks are not given priority it effectively nerfs talonflame and removes most of its niche. With extremespeed everywhere there is no reason to nerf talonflame.

My final point is that yes there is no way to test this in-game. But, we can look at the facts: (1) The aerilate does change normal-type attacks to flying-type attacks, it does not simply modify the type of the damage dealt (2) Gale Wings does give priority to flying-type attacks. Therefore talon's normal-type attacks converted into flying-type attacks must be given priority.

All in all this either intended and not stated or the coding should be slightly modified. Thank you for your time.
 

The Immortal

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There is no bug. Turn order comes first; this is how mechanics work. Same reason as how if weather changes in the middle of a turn it does not affect speed boosting weather abilities. Or when Banette Mega Evolves, Prankster does not activate.
 

The Immortal

is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
If you want me to provide more relevant examples, in a doubles battle if your Prankster Pokemon Skill Swaps with the Gale Wings user, the Gale Wings user will still attack in the same order. But if your Prankster Pokemon Skill Swaps with the -ate user, the -ate user's attack will be Normal and not Flying/etc.
 
Mega Metagross is a beast. His contact STAB Returns/DEdges have insane damage outputs, and for walls that trip up your entire team, he can kill them with Explosion. Just look at these calcs (Return set to 132BP STAB, Double-Edge 156BP STAB, Explosion 325BP STAB)
Return:

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 195-231 (46.4 - 55%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Return vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 366-432 (95.3 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 220-261 (68.9 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Return vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 259-306 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Double-Edge:

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 231-273 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 433-510 (107.1 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 261-307 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Double-Edge vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 306-360 (75.1 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Explosion:

252 Atk Mega Metagross Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 369-435 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Mega Metagross Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 163-192 (48.8 - 57.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
(Okay, still can't get Skarm)

252 Atk Mega Metagross Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

That should be quite enough to prove my point. He can devour Weavile and Aerodactyl with Bullet Punch, take Zygardes ESpeeds all day, stop physical Normal/Dragon/Rock/Flying/Fairy types in their tracks and slam them with a steel or psychic STAB. He defeats so many things that have begun to define what's good in this meta.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
is a Pre-Contributor
So people raised a concern to me on PS that Aegislash might still be a bit too broken. Since I trust the peoples' opinion more than my own I mean come on I'm like 2-3 in my own meta for goodness sakes...

I'm suspecting Aegislash for a re-ban. For the sake of the ladder, this suspect will last 3 days. Basically, post your opinions on whether Aegislash is borked in the tier or not from experience.
 
Aegislash should be banned for the same reasons it was banned from OU. It's honestly no different here. It really doesn't change if you think Aegis should have been banned for OU or not. He does exactly the same thing in this meta.

He creates 50/50s, is super tanky, has many different viable sets, and, well, I could go into paragraphs of explaining why Aegis needs a ban, but it all already exists on the OU thread. The arguments are the same.

Ban Aegislash.
 
The only one reason Aegislash should not be banned is that it can promote stall or balanced strategies. This can be healthy in a metagame ruled by full offense. But, other than that, it is overpowered the same way it was in OU: in my opinion, if we let Aegislash stay, we should consider a comeback from Uber for things like Greninja and Landorus-I too.
 

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