Metagross (Gravity)

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Venser

I was actually quite surprised when I saw this wasn't onsite already. It has the power to beat typical checks, and we already have specific analysis spots for Rain Dance/Sunny Day/Trick Room/etc. so I figured why not? Gravity doesn't get enough mention anyways.

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Status:
Rejection: 1/3
Approval: 0/3
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Metagross (Gravity)
n_376_Metagross_Optimized_by_White__Flame.png

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/metagross

[SET]
name: Gravity
move 1: Gravity
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Meteor Mash
move 4: Explosion/Stealth Rock/Agility
item: Life Orb/Leftovers
ability: Clear Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 132 Speed

Why this set deserves to be on-site:
- No gravity sets on-site
- Gravity gives the two attacking moves on the set perfect coverage (save Shedinja) and perfect accuracy.
- Beats all of Metagross's usual counters and checks - Skarmory, Bronzong, Zapdos, and Rotom-A.
- Outclassess Iron Ball Metagross because it can beat multiple checks as opposed to just one, and is guaranteed an item to fit the set.

Additional Comments:
- The last moveslot is dependent on the role you want Metagross to play-it can bluff Agiligross and Gravity on the switch, play a more supporting role with SR, or go BOOM on something preparing a sweep.
- Item choice is dependent on the 4th moveslot-Life Orb is recommended for Explosion sets, Leftovers for Stealth Rock, and either for Agility.
- The given EVs are such that Metagross can outspeed Scarftran after an Agility with an Adamant nature. If not using Agility, an alternate spread of 252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe is recommended.
- Lum Berry is a viable option if you really want to beat the Rotom formes. You can Gravity on the switch, then outspeed and EQ. Stealth Rock is essential for this set, as it turns 2HKOs into OHKOs.
-Bullet Punch can be used if you want 100% insurance against the Rotom formes, but besides that, it's usefulness is limited.


Teammates and Counters:
- This works perfectly with LO gravity Starmie, with it's Hydro Pump/Thunder/Blizzard getting perfect accuracy in Gravity. A Mamoswine also benefits from this because it's dual STAB combo, Ground and Ice now has perfect OU coverage.
- Anything that can set up entry hazards works well with Gravity-Forretress can set up all three, while Tentacruel sets up Toxic Spikes and benefits from gravity with a 100% accurate Hydro Pump.
- Gravity teams attract a lot of incoming Fire and Ground-type attacks, so pokemon that can take these attacks pair nicely with this. It's always nice to see a guaranteed Flash Fire boost on Heatran, and Shaymin can take ground-type attacks and hit back with a 100% accurate Seed Flare, and hit its checks with Earth Power. Heatran`s signature move, Magma Storm, now has 100% accuracy as well.
- Due to Gravity's effect, this Metagross requires different checks for it's different moves. There is no one "hard counter" to this set however. Anything faster that can OHKO counters this set decently. Infernape and Scarftran can counter non-Agility versions, while Celebi and Shaymin can switch in on an EQ and 2HKO with Earth Power. They both need to be wary of Explosion, however.
 
This is completely inferior to Trick+Iron Ball Metagross because Rotom-a can still burn it, Zapdos can still outspeed you and deal hefty damage with Heat Wave and allows other faster Pokemon to hit with their moves with full accuracy. Iron Ball Metagross can run a bulkier spread, be just as powerful, and kill all of its usual counters. And not to mention Gravity is the worst and the most gimmicky field changer. It's unreliable and can easily give the opponent the upper hand.
 
It's meant for use on a somewhat dedicated Gravity team which is hardly gimmicky if played and built correctly. Again, the other analysis are built for certain field conditions, and Gravity deserves at least one or two sets on pokemon that can abuse it.
 
We rejected a very similar set in the recent past. You can find there the opinion of the QCers that weighed in and disapproved said set. I would like to hear what you have to say at your convenience, Starkiller2.
 
I'm so sorry! I tried doing several different searches, but I guess "gravitygross" being one word screws up searches.

It seems like that user didn't test the set out. I have been using this consistently in a pseudo-gravity team and it has been working like a charm. However, I haven't encountered many Rotom-H's though. In addition, Bullet Punch seems wholly useless save the chance of 2HKOing scarf Rotom-H's with Gravity already in effect, which is a pretty niche situation. Expert Belt also sucks on this set compared to LO, due to only really effecting one of the moves, since Steel is only SE against Rock and Ice.

I can provide logs of this set's usefulness if needed. Gravity still feels extremely underrepresented to me: there's no way of canceling it out save the 5 turns expiring, soooo many pokemon are good in it (esp. that starmie that I mentioned) most opposing teams aren't prepared to take advantage of it due to the fact that they wouldn't use the high risk, high reward moves that are so good in Gravity like Thunder or Blizzard because they basically suck outside of Gravity or Rain/Hail respectively. Hydro Pump is waay below Surf in terms of usage on the top three most used water types (Kingdra, Suicune, and Starmie unless I suck at reading) just as an example.
 
It's more useful against stall teams, as those generally pack Skarm+Rotom and Trick Iron Ball can cripple only one of them; Gravity cripples both, and can be used as many times as needed.

It's also possible to outspeed most defensive Rotom with proper EVs (not sure if the ones provided by the OP do, though), which makes WoW from them a non-issue. 252 SAtk/252 Speed Scarf Rotom and the like can barely wall Meteor Mashes anyway, taking nearly 40% from those.

Gravitygross is inferior against offense, though, but it's no dead weight at least!
 
This is worse than TrickBall Metagross for the following main reasons:

1: Only lasts for 4 turns. This sucks. Iron Ball is permanent when Tricked onto something without a Trick of its own.

2: Gravity affects your own team as well. This is a big deal when you consider that Metagross is weak to Ground, so it limits your options for switching into opposing Earthquakes.

3: Iron Ball affects the opponent's Speed as well as their immunity to Ground. With TrickBall, you can cripple Rotom-A and then Earthquake it before it can hit you with Will-O-Wisp. You can catch Heatran and Earthquake it before it hits you with Fire Blast.

4: Gravity makes Metagross' counters more reliable. Will-O-Wisp is now 100% accurate. Fire Blast is now 100% accurate. Nasty stuff like Hydro Pump is now 100% accurate.

For these reasons, Gravity Metagross is strictly inferior to TrickBall Metagross, and also terrible on its own merit.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
If anyone is going to help you argue that gravity gross is good BK is your man for that, iirc he has some experience with some set involving gravity and maybe he can weigh in on what he thinks of it
 
I think a good option for this set would be lum berry. This means when defensive rotom comes in and tries to burn you it shows whether or not you can outrun that specific rotom, and even if you cant you already opened up a sweep for a Gyarados or Scizor without getting burned, letting you pull off a bigger boom later. Im also sure this would damage walls like Weezing and Skarmory enough to be taken out later.

Certainly better than being hopelessly walled and burned by a Rotom, Trick + Iron Ball means you cant run lum berry, and the Rotom will have time to burn you. The only counter I know of that Trick+Iron Ball would deal with better is Zapdos, and GravityGross could still probably take a Heat Wave and Explode, hello Scizor sweep.

As for teammates this really needs a mention to be paired with a bulky grass type such as Celebi or Shaymin to take Earthquakes under Gravity, especially because Swampert and Hippowdon can still counter it easily. Celebi could also Baton Pass a Swords Dance and open up a sweep if Metagross runs Agility, which could happen easily unless a powerful fire type or Gengar comes in. Vaporeon would be helpful there to counter the majority of those.
 
I'll add a section about bulky waters and/or Grass types in AC/Teammates.

@ SDS:
Seven Deadly Sins said:
This is worse than TrickBall Metagross for the following main reasons:

1: Only lasts for 4 turns. This sucks. Iron Ball is permanent when Tricked onto something without a Trick of its own.
Click to expand...
You're still missing one big point here: this is intended for use on an at least somewhat dedicated Gravity team. Iron Ball Metagross can fit onto any team, and they play different roles. If Rotom Formes really give you that much trouble, throw a Scarf/Subtran onto your team to take the WoW and OHKO back with Fire Blast or sub up on the switch. While that does increase your ground weakness, again, Shaymin or Celebi can both take advantage of Gravity and switch into WoW.
2: Gravity affects your own team as well. This is a big deal when you consider that Metagross is weak to Ground, so it limits your options for switching into opposing Earthquakes.
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Well, yes, that is one of the typical weaknesses of a Gravity team, but as the above poster said, a bulky water/grass would make an excellent partner. Or even something with a high defense stat, like Forretress or Hippowdon to take the EQ and set up entry hazards on a more defensive Gravity team.
3: Iron Ball affects the opponent's Speed as well as their immunity to Ground. With TrickBall, you can cripple Rotom-A and then Earthquake it before it can hit you with Will-O-Wisp. You can catch Heatran and Earthquake it before it hits you with Fire Blast.
Click to expand...
I'm mentioning Lum Berry in AC if you really want to beat the Rotom formes, but you beat all the other switch-ins to a Metagross.
4: Gravity makes Metagross' counters more reliable. Will-O-Wisp is now 100% accurate. Fire Blast is now 100% accurate. Nasty stuff like Hydro Pump is now 100% accurate.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the point of Gravity? Which specific counter(s) are you reffering to here?
 
Posting here upon request.

I do believe that Gravity Metagross has some utility over Iron Ball Metagross, but you need to play to all of Gravity's strengths properly. I'm not convinced the spread you're currently using is the most optimal, nor do I think Life Orb is as necessary as you may think considering all the new targets you're able to hit with Earthquake. Lum Berry should definitely be a primary option to guarantee you can take on Rotom formes that don't carry Trick.

In addition to stuff like Forretress, there are several teammates that beg to be paired up with this set. The one that comes to mind straight away is Magma Storm Heatran. You're inevitably going to attract some Fire-type attention with Metagross, so being able to pull off a guaranteed trap with Heatran can potentially be very helpful and gain you a lot of momentum. Since you're weak to Ground-type attacks yourself, you also need something that can reliably take those even under Gravity. Something like Shaymin would immediately spring to mind, especially since for a few turns Seed Flare isn't missing and you'll be able to hit Skarmory and Zapdos without resorting to using Hidden Power.

I guess you can think of this post as a placeholder until I come up with a spread more relevant to the current metagame (feel free to come up with your own in the meantime!), but I do think this set has its niche, even if its just for a few teams.
 
(c) coolking49

to be honest you are pretty much suggesting adding a para onto the agilitygross set or lead set since the evs are the same. I know this is a good set, but unless you run agility those evs are kind of pointless. I ran 220 speed to outspeed defensive rotom sets, however I'd bet there is a benchmark lower. Good luck with the set.
 
Starkiller2 said:
I'm mentioning Lum Berry in AC if you really want to beat the Rotom formes, but you beat all the other switch-ins to a Metagross. Yeah, that's the point of Gravity? Which specific counter(s) are you reffering to here?
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WoW from Rotom-A, which still outspeeds you (unlike Iron Ball), Heatran's Fire Blast, Starmie's Hydro Pump. 3 things that have no problem switching in on Meteor Mash, outspeed you, and can kill you or cripple you before you have a chance to do anything back.

I'm just going to say this flat out. Gravity is a gimmick. I don't believe Gravity is worthy of a moveslot at all, even on its best users (Starmie, Metagross). It's a shaky concept to build a team around, and it can be as bad for the user as it is for the opponent if you're not careful.
 
You could easily apply that logic to Trick Room, and yet Bronzong has a nice little Trick Room set on site.

In fact, "if you're not careful", I'd wager a lot of the sets we have on site can backfire on you.
 
Yeah, Trick Room is a great move to base a team around, along with Gravity, but less so in Singles. I'd have to agree with the guy that said Gravity is a gimmick, but sometimes gimmicks catch you off guard, if only for a moment; those 5 (was it 4?) turns are easier to stall out in Singles.

GravityGross is really cool in Doubles with Fake Out support, though.
 
The difference is that Trick Room has more benefit than Gravity for a well-prepared team. I've used Gravity Metagross and other Gravity teams, and they rarely work out like it seems they should. Gravity is far, far, FAR more gimmicky than Trick Room, and the reward is mediocre at best for the effort required.
 
I would just like to note that TR Bronzong is a legitamiteoy GREAT set in it's own right, and isn't gimmicky at all. It's actually a very viable late game cleaner. TR is also less hurtful to the team when you consider Zong isn't getting OHKOed anytime soon and at worst you send in CBtar or Skarm or whatever to eat the last turn of the move. Gravity Metagross is much less good since you lose Life Orb just to beat one counter the set is built around, and Gravity can potentially be a lot more disruptive to your team / Gravity requires a themeteam.
 
Blue Kirby said:
You could easily apply that logic to Trick Room, and yet Bronzong has a nice little Trick Room set on site.

In fact, "if you're not careful", I'd wager a lot of the sets we have on site can backfire on you.
Click to expand...

Posting to agree with this. There are many sets (especially TR sets) that require a strict team devoted to the use that have made it on site. Just because the set doesn't wreck shit every time without team support doesn't mean it should be avoided entirely; if this set is functional and useful on a gravity team, why the hell shouldn't it go up? Gravity is a legitimate field effect and as such should be taken into consideration beyond being a "gimmick".
 
Even though I only play UU, and have seen a fair amount of OU battles, I do have some experience with Gravity, so I've decided to pitch in my two cents based on my experiences with it:
I will admit that Gravity can backfire on you, as it can make your own team more vunerable. However, I've found that it does have a couple of advantages. The first one is that more Pokemon become vunerable to Ground attacks. Many teams deal with Ground attacks with Pokemon that either have Levitate or are part Flying. By activating Gravity, their immunity to Ground disappears, leaving them open for incoming Earthquakes. It also makes them more susceptible to entry hazards, lessening the lifespan of your opponent's team. The second advantage is the increase in accuracy in many moves. Focus Blast, Blizzard, Thunder...there are many moves that hurt a lot...if they don't miss. By lessening the odds of them missing, it allows for less wasted turns, and more damage to your opponent, and therefore allowing for an easier sweep. Even though Gravity does have its weaknesses, its benefits are not to be ignored.
Now, I do have issues about Gravity being called a "gimmick". SDS, even though you say that Trick Room has more benefit than Gravity, the only benefit that I see is that it allows slower Pokemon to sweep. That's it. If I'm missing something else, by all means tell me. I've found that opponents can have Pokemon on their team that also benefit from Trick Room, which can turn the tables on the Trick Room user. I'm not sure that many Pokemon can be ready for Gravity in OU, UU, or whatever tier you're using. Gravity has a couple advantages, as I've already stated. Not only does it make it easier for devastating moves such as Focus Blast and Thunder to hit, but it removes the Ground resistance of Pokemon such as Skarmory, Flygon, and Rotom-H, which is one of their key advantages in most battles, as well as making them vunerable to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Besides, if Gravity is a "gimmick", then why do we have a guide based on making a team around said "gimmick"?
I hope I got my point across.

By the way, here's the link to the "gimmick" guide I mentioned earlier: http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/gravity_guide
 
Alright, I said I'd weigh in on this, and I still intend to despite heading on my way. The Gravity Metagross set I used to run doesn't seem to work in this metagame. I tested a variety of spreads, even going Jolly to boost my Speed for a more offensive set, but I did actually find the spread posted in the first post to be the most effective.

Something I found interesting was that I had a hard time getting this set to function well on a Gravity-themed team. I found that my other Gravity users were getting chances to set up and Metagross wasn't seeing much play-time. In fact, if you're going with the Gravity theme, then just about any other Metagross set is better to take advantage of other members using the move. This is probably something to do with the fact that Fire/Water/Grass cores are now very much the standard rather than the old Steel/Dragon setups used back when I tested this out, so Metagross has less moves to setup on (I used to run both Gravity and Agility and it usually panned out pretty well).

Funnily enough, the set seemed to perform much better when used as the sole Gravity user. I think this is probably something to do with the fact that if only Metagross is carrying Gravity, the surprise isn't ruined early-game by another user, and that's absolutely vital for this set to work properly, sort of in the same way that the Iron Ball set works. In the end, I opted to stick with Life Orb since when I was attacking, the extra kick was quite helpful. With that in mind, you pretty much need Heatran (or something that can absorb status) as a partner, and I liked to capitalize on Gravity by running Magma Storm, which worked wonders. I also ran a Life Orb Shaymin which really appreciated a few turns of 100% accurate Seed Flares and Leech Seeds (as well as being able to nail Skarmory with Earth Power).

I don't think Stealth Rock has any place on this set whatsoever, and Agility isn't anywhere near as effective as it once was. You simply will not the time to use both (at least I never did), although on a few occasions it would've been nice to be able to pick which move setup move to use. Stealth Rock should be dropped and Agility maybe just mentioned in the set comments? If not, definitely slashed second to Explosion, which is a pretty amazing move, especially if you nail Rotom-H/Skarmory early on in the game.

In summary, I don't think this set is quite as good in the current metagame, but it still definitely fills a niche - and you can definitely take advantage of Gravity without having a Gravity-themed team. This doesn't mean slapping Blizzard and Thunder on everyone Pokemon you can, and that's where I think people go wrong. If you set up a team that functions well only when Gravity is in play, you're pretty much doomed from the outset.

With that, I think that's all about I have to say on this set. If anyone else gets around to testing this out, I'd be interested to see if their findings are similar to mine. In any case, best of luck!
 
Read through the thread and I think Blue Kirby has sealed the deal with my final thoughts on this set.

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
I'll make sure to mention Gravity in OC. It appears that we all agree on that this set doesn't merit its own spot on-site, so I'll proceed to lock the thread.

Thank you for having proposed this strategy, it'll receive its mention in the OC section of Metagross's on-site analysis. Don't hesitate to try again with another set in the future.
 
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