Format Discussion Metronome Battle

[MattC (Banned)]

Hey y'all. I took today to ladder the Metronome Battle ladder and I made top 500! First time I ever made top 500 on any ladder and I'm happy it was this one :D

It's not #1, BUT, I am happy with it.

Here's the duo that took me there.
@
Ting-Lu @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
^ There is not an introduction needed for this guy at this rate. Initially I had Weakness Policy but just decided Mirror Herb copying a big thing like an opposing Weaknesses Policy or Shell Smash was better overall. Decided tera poison was best in case of opposing poisons (don't want the clock ticking too fast in game). Minimum speed and brave to maximize attack power and be the slowest under Perish Song conditions (this is a win con that came up thrice in my laddering). Relaxed could've been better but... oh well.

@
Pecharunt @ Kee Berry
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Metronome
^ Also needs no introduction. One of the bulkiest mons in the tier, and also a poison ghost type! Jolly came in super clutch often times as Pecharunt outspeeding Mega Heracross can often be game deciding. That's how it is when you're facing a mon with 185 base Attack. For the longest time, I was running Clear Amulet but... it never really came up for me often. So at the last stretch, I swapped to Kee Berry to bolster this guy's Defense even more. Every point matters when you're facing down pure strength.

Here are the very few replays I did save, as I didn't actually save many replays during my grind.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2128384871 < won after I went boom (Toxic Chain is broken)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2128392800 < won after being hit with who knows what fuckin bullshitery
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2128403033 < game that took me to top 500


Now before I end this, I need to rant a bit. Ahem,
THE METAGAME IS STALE.
"But it's a Metronome battle how could it ever be stale?"
To that I say, the mons. The same mons are being used nearly every game with little room for diversity. Mega Heracross, Ting-Lu, Mega Venusaur, Pecharunt... at some point you wonder if the metagame really is fun, or if it's just a game of long solitaire. I just find it really tedious that Mega Venusaur and Heracross and Ting-Lu are so prevalent but at the same time, there really is not a better option sadly. It's a very unfortunate limbo where if you want something specific, the top mons do it better than your pick. Regirock vs Ting-Lu for example. Regirock is physically bulkier, sure, but Ting-Lu is specially bulkier AND stronger. Or say maybe Mega Venusaur vs Necturna. Mega Venusaur is bulkier, and has a better typing. Necturna may be physically stronger sure, but that doesn't make up for its lack of bulk and being slower than Mega Venusaur.
I understand that some people or some duos may prefer something over another, but more often than not, this is hardly the case. Even the abilities are kinda centralized. Everyone is just using Flower Veil, Toxic Chain, Defiant, Competitive, Magic Guard, or Intrepid Sword. Some of these aren't exactly bad for the game. Competitive and Magic Guard only really pop up 1/4, maybe 5 games. The difference between Competitive and Defiant is also that there are a lot more random physical moves than special -- so the overall likelihood of you benefitting off Competitive is lower.

But you know what? We preserve. We cope and run along with the train before it takes us to our destination. Service might be bad, the train itself might be bad, but we (more like "I") just gotta roll with it. What I would give to ban Flower Veil and Mega Heracross -- maybe even Ting-Lu or Mega Ampharos... or just have some change with the megas in metronome battles where they need to hold their mega stone and actually mega evolve to get their good form. It's stupid I know but at the same time, it is a solution to the problem. This way, Mega Heracross is kinda forced into Intrepid Sword AND doesn't have their item slot. It seems like a good way to balance that issue. Mega Venusaur isn't really affected by this since the partner can just run Flower Veil instead, but banning Veil as a whole would honestly fix the problem with Mega Venusaur.

If I was to have a list of mons I want to be banned or limited in some capacity, it would be to have the aforementioned Mega Venusaur (or Flower Veil), Mega Heracross, Ting-Lu, and Toxic Chain all BANNED. You could also do a thing similar to AAA where you restrict abilities to not be on certain mons (like Restricting Intrepid Sword and/or Defiant to not be on Mega Heracross, or limiting Flower Veil not to be on Mega Venusaur and/or Ting-Lu). I really don't like the over-centralization in the tier, or the fact that the Top 10 best are still Mega Heracross and Venusaur and now Ting-Lu -- plus there's Mega Ampharos and Gengar, Blissey and Dusclops, up there constantly. Like, once in a blue moon, something changes. Like the era where Mega Camerupt and Regirock were in the top 10, or even now with the newfound potential of Guzzlord. But... it doesn't really matter tbh. I can hope, but I'm sure the best mons in the tier aren't gonna have any limitations or get banned any time soon :(
I'll just be moping in my internal cave thinking of what to make anti-meta against or if I should ladder more and reach top 100 with something else.


EDIT: Sorry this took like an hour but I just fixed up some stuff with the post. Also I'm now #134 on ladder looool (you can see for yourself). Added a bit to it I wanted to touch on and formatted everything slightly better. Also, here's the paste if the team if you want it https://pokepast.es/875717462d520683

 

[WelcomeWinters]

I can’t speak for anyone else but I absolutely have used Intrepid Sword on Weakness Policy teams to make sure Mirror Herbs would copy as small of a boost as possible. In hindsight, Dauntless Shield would probably have been a better choice, but the actual stat boost really was just a handy side-effect. The primary concern was “neutralizing” Mirror Herb ASAP so it couldn’t copy a Weakness Policy boost.

Cool I'm going to try this. I was using a weather ability in the same vein as the sample team, but came to this thread to investigate other options.

Ok I just won 7 in a row, good tip
I was running Orchalium Pulse with 2 ursalunas, but the 5 turn limit and overall limited effect didn't make a difference most battles, while mirror herb and especially double herb teams were a brutal matchup.


Edit: ok dauntless shield goes bonkers https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2134737224

 

[doipy hooves]

I also used Dauntless Shield Tyranitar partly for the purpose of activating Mirror Herbs during the suspect test.

Regarding MattC's gripes, I feel like if you just ban the best mons then something else is just going to be in the top spot instead, which is what happened with gamefreak's meme format of banning the top 10 mons by usage in BSS/BSD that one time. I think it's a testament to parity that so many different strategies are viable even if they're not the most used, and the fact that the top 10 is so variable itself as a figure of usage, no less when there are also hundreds of mons still used outside of it.

As we jump into June and mind the usage stats for May, there hasn't been too much to talk about in terms of official updates with Legends due in 2025, though CAP 34/Chuggalong is finally playable and there's going to be a Nintendo Direct this month.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-05/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-05/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt

The battle count this month dropped down to 12212. This is likely because of the outages and their overall effect this month, disrupting usage for a few days and probably still leading to less returns in the latter half of the month. Even OU and VGC went from over 1 million to 500k.

May 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month (April) positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#2: Mega Heracross (no change)
#3: Ting-Lu (#4)
#4: Guzzlord (#5)
#5: Pecharunt (#3)
#6: Blissey (#7)
#7: Mega Ampharos (#6)
#8: Mega Gengar (no change)
#9: Mega Sableye (#12)
#10: Mega Slowbro (#11)

We have a handful of shuffles, but overall the composition is still similar. Most numbers have fallen low, with the lead between Venusaur and Heracross being within 100/200 uses based on the moveset or stats file respectively and in total just being around the 4000 mark. In general only 9 mons make it above 1000 uses in general here, mainly the big three, Blissey, and ghosts, including Hisuian Zoroark and Dragapult who didn't make it in the weighted top 10. Striking dark horses include Regirock at #14 with 241 uses, Roaring Moon at #23 with 240 uses, Marowak-Alola at #28 with 81 uses, and base Pikachu at #30 with 74 uses among other things. On the other hand, Swinub has the dubious honour of being hte lowest mon with double-digit (36) uses at #679, and for triple digits, it's actually pretty close between Nihilego (#418/188 uses) and Bidoof (#414/180 uses).

Going through the moveset file, Magic Guard has actually risen into the top ability on Ting-Lu, Intrepid Sword gains back ground on Defiant for Heracross, and Toxic Chain is closing in on Venusaur again with Choice Specs of all things being #1 over both Weakness Policy and Mirror Herb. Guzzlord is still a pretty big Magic Guard/Life Orb user, while for Slowbro Ice Scales/Mirror Herb has dominated over Delta Stream/Choice Specs again. Surprisingly Ampharos has tied usage for Minus/Plus in the lead, but with Intrepid Sword/Intimidate/Storm Drain/Toxic Chain all very close behind.

The viability ceilings (highest GXE by a player) are also a bit quieter, maxing out at 80 with Venusaur and Ting-Lu, followed by Heracross alone in 79, and skipping down to 77 with Mega Gengar (Toxic Chain/Normalium Z leading), Mega Sableye (Magic Bounce/Mirror Herb), Regirock (Ice Scales/Mirror Herb), and Aurumoth (Simple/Weakness Policy with Ampharos). Beyond that in 76, we round out to a solid 10 mons with Pecharunt (Toxic Chain with Pickup and Friend Guard close behind), Dusclops (just mainly Friend Guard and Toxic Chain now), and Toxapex (also a Toxic Chain/Mirror Herb user) making up for some stall representation. Thanks for your reading.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Regarding MattC's gripes, I feel like if you just ban the best mons then something else is just going to be in the top spot instead, which is what happened with gamefreak's meme format of banning the top 10 mons by usage in BSS/BSD that one time. I think it's a testament to parity that so many different strategies are viable even if they're not the most used, and the fact that the top 10 is so variable itself as a figure of usage, no less when there are also hundreds of mons still used outside of it.

GRIPE, doesn't begin to describe what I think is the problem...
Yea maybe you shouldn't ban the best stuff but then again... lemme "paint you a picture". This is gonna be a big one so it'll be hard to ignore.
Let's assume Mega Heracross specifically is banned. Who's the next strongest pokemon? Deoxys Attack.

Deoxys Attack is very powerful, don't get me wrong. It's also very fast on top of this. But the downside is that, it's incredibly frail. 50/20/20 bulk is absolutely ABYSMAL bulk for anything. Though, I feel the trade off for this extreme bulk deficit is worth 180 offenses and 150 speed. Compare this to Mega Heracross with 80/115/105 bulk, AND 185 Attack. His speed being 75 isn't even all that bad either. Why use Deoxys Attack when Mega Heracross is not only stronger, but bulkier -- and still has a good speed tier? If we look at the second strongest pokemon, it's a 3 way between Rampardos, and 2 Megas in Gallade and Banette. Each and every one of these have some form of restriction added to them, though it is not obvious at first. The bulkiest of them is Mega Gallade at 65/95 -- which compared to Heracross anyways, is not bulky at all. Furthermore, Rampardos has a paltry speed stat of 58 -- so it's most likely moving last safe for facing a team with Ting-Lu exactly. Mega Banette seems fine compared to the 3 with it being the same speed as Heracross and all (plus Ghost type), but again, not nearly as bulky as Mega Heracross, AND is weaker by a very substantial 20 base Attack. After 165, the next highest is Mega Pinsir at 155, and from there, it gets lower and more moderate to handle compared to the other things. The difference between Mega Heracross and the other things after it is that IT'S SUPPOSED to be manageable due to "Bug-Fighting being mediocre defensively". This is absolutely not the case when you add on terastallization -- giving one of the very likely 2 Mega Heracross you're staring down a lot more staying power than necessary. Then add on the Defiant/Intrepid Sword, and the Choice Band and all a sudden, this is not a fair fight. 1 good physical attack and you're getting domed for ~20% at the bare minimum.

We can also look at this from a defensive lens if we want to. Take Ting-Lu is the example. 155/125/80 is absolutely amazing bulk even without Vessel of Ruin, and base 110 Attack for most walls is actually VERY high. Now, again, let's compare this to say... Regirock.

Now, Regirock is incredibly bulky. 80/200/100 is absolutely superb bulk, and 100 Attack baseline doesn't hurt either. And of course, Rock being a very interesting double edged sword. For a Normal resist (very important), you gain 5 types to wack you for super effective damage, which honestly? I'd take that trade off. It means I can run a nasty Weakness Policy set and absolutely fry everything. Other mons like Avalugg with their 95/184 physical bulk, Great Tusk with 115/131 bulk being comparable to Ting-Lu, and other things like Mega Slowbro and Cloyster all being very equally physically bulky doesn't mean that Ting-Lu should be any better. Heck, Rhyperior and Glastrier are both STRONGER than Ting-Lu. But the issue is the very reason they are so bulky: the typing. Safe for terastallization, you're stuck as mostly a Ground, Rock, Ice, or Water type if you wanna be physically bulky, or you have comparably low special defense as the downside. Being slow doesn't exactly matter here, but it can come up against something like Mega Heracross or Ampharos. Similarly to Mega Heracross, Ting-Lu simply gives you everything you need and more. Why is Avalugg as a risky physical wall who needs terastallization, when you can have Ting-Lu -- who doesn't need to [but prefers] their tera, and can accomplish nearly the same task on a very similar power level (quite literally actually, they have almost the same Attack stat). Bulky on both sides, physically stronger than most walls, can run Weakness Policy to take advantage of its 6 weaknesses (I don't know why it's got 6 either). Ting-Lu just puts everything else to shame compared to him.

And of course doipy hooves, the icing on the cake: FLOWER VEIL AND TOXIC CHAIN.

These abilities, as well as Defiant and what have you on specific mons, is absolutely bonkers. Toxic Chain CALLS FOR YOU to have an answer to it, and while most teams do, simply the threat of Toxic Chain softly forces you to answer it. One of these answers is, Flower Veil -- which in itself is also obsurd. The ability to ignore all status conditions is fine. Who really enjoys getting paralyzed or frozen anyways. Ignoring stat changes is also fine. Defiant and Competitive are in part strong abilities as a way to abuse the multitude of ways your stats get dropped. Having BOTH OF THESE, with a type that can VERY EASILY ABUSE WEAKNESS POLICY for a +2 in both offenses... suddenly things are looking very, very bad. The ease in which you can get a free +2 in your offenses with little to no drawback should be downright illegal. "Mirror Herb", they said. To which the Mega Venusaur proceeded to use HARDEN before the Weakness Policy proc'd, and then followed this with PRISMATIC LASER. You're dead. This didn't actually happen to me, but, it's not unlikely your Mirror Herb outright fails because of the RNG (which is a very important factor in why so many abilities that see play are good).


I can go on and on about the little details and contingencies with every single thing I find problematic (that is not bias, and is consistent and persistent), but I (if anything) propose a solution:
SETTING STANDARDS FOR WHAT IS AND IS NOT ALLOWED
Ready your pitchforks if you dare, but I firmly believe there should be a known precedent for good and wrong. For example: X pokemon should not exceed ... bulk if it has ... Attack or more. Or X mon with ... bulk should have less than ... SpDef. One of the plus side to even playing this tier that I believe makes it fun is that THEY HAVE GENUINE DOWNSIDES. I love having to challenge myself with my quirky Mega Sharpedo knowing it's at a disadvantage, or my Mega Camerupt before unlocking his true potential (before it became a mainstay). My Ting-Lu should not be allowed his cake and be able to eat it, and neither should my Mega Heracross. As I said in my previous post, the top 10 has barely changed over the last few months. And this tier has been around for maybe, 5 years at this point? On a personal level, I would propose a suspect test, a community poll on what the people think is a problem with this tier. I like this tier and will always support it man, but sometimes we need to see change. Change that happens once every 4-ish months is not change. It is a small glimpse of hope before the realization of your terrible situation hits you. I trust you doipy, or anyone else involved in this tier, will help salvage it. Please.
(Also doipy I'm sorry if this comes off as rude towards you. I'm not trying to purposely call you out, I'm not trying or demanding anything. I just want you to hear my piece on what I believe is the issue.)

 

[doipy hooves]

GRIPE, doesn't begin to describe what I think is the problem...
Yea maybe you shouldn't ban the best stuff but then again... lemme "paint you a picture". This is gonna be a big one so it'll be hard to ignore.
Let's assume Mega Heracross specifically is banned. Who's the next strongest pokemon? Deoxys Attack.

I think bringing up Deoxys-Attack as the successor to Heracross as the next strongest mon is a disingenuous comparison, because Heracross wins games and Deoxys-Attack dies to a stiff breeze. My point was not that banning the max Attack mon means that players will just use the second-most Attack mon instead, it's that a meta by nature is always going to have centralization around some mons, so people who want to win would just use Blissey or Flower Veil or some other tried and true set that's proven to win games.

Why use Deoxys Attack when Mega Heracross is not only stronger, but bulkier -- and still has a good speed tier?

Because it has 180 SpA instead of 45. Though then the question should be why you should use Deoxys-Attack over Mega Alakazam or why either of them should be used over anything else more balanced like Mew.

The bulkiest of them is Mega Gallade at 65/95 -- which compared to Heracross anyways, is not bulky at all.

They seem pretty close to me in terms of KO thresholds. If anything is not bulky at all it's Deoxys.

252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Heracross-Mega: 98-116 (26.9 - 31.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Heracross-Mega: 104-123 (28.5 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gallade-Mega: 112-132 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gallade-Mega: 98-116 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Deoxys-Attack: 232-273 (76.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Deoxys: 162-191 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Other mons like Avalugg with their 95/184 physical bulk, Great Tusk with 115/131 bulk being comparable to Ting-Lu, and other things like Mega Slowbro and Cloyster all being very equally physically bulky doesn't mean that Ting-Lu should be any better. Heck, Rhyperior and Glastrier are both STRONGER than Ting-Lu. But the issue is the very reason they are so bulky: the typing.

I think we fundamentally disagree and agree on this point as well. Ting-Lu ends up more viable because of the stats and typing that game freak gave it and it just so happens that it's suited for the Metronome meta. If Ting-Lu was banned it wouldn't mean that there would be a reason to use Cloyster any more than its past and present state of irrelevance before Ting-Lu existed.

I can go on and on about the little details and contingencies with every single thing I find problematic (that is not bias, and is consistent and persistent), but I (if anything) propose a solution:

SETTING STANDARDS FOR WHAT IS AND IS NOT ALLOWED

Ready your pitchforks if you dare, but I firmly believe there should be a known precedent for good and wrong. For example: X pokemon should not exceed ... bulk if it has ... Attack or more. Or X mon with ... bulk should have less than ... SpDef. One of the plus side to even playing this tier that I believe makes it fun is that THEY HAVE GENUINE DOWNSIDES. I love having to challenge myself with my quirky Mega Sharpedo knowing it's at a disadvantage, or my Mega Camerupt before unlocking his true potential (before it became a mainstay). My Ting-Lu should not be allowed his cake and be able to eat it, and neither should my Mega Heracross. As I said in my previous post, the top 10 has barely changed over the last few months. And this tier has been around for maybe, 5 years at this point? On a personal level, I would propose a suspect test, a community poll on what the people think is a problem with this tier. I like this tier and will always support it man, but sometimes we need to see change. Change that happens once every 4-ish months is not change. It is a small glimpse of hope before the realization of your terrible situation hits you. I trust you doipy, or anyone else involved in this tier, will help salvage it. Please.
(Also doipy I'm sorry if this comes off as rude towards you. I'm not trying to purposely call you out, I'm not trying or demanding anything. I just want you to hear my piece on what I believe is the issue.)

I think this would be getting into the territory of why Smogon is anti-complex ban in terms of picking and choosing what should be allowed. Determining any specific standards of "good and wrong" way to play will ultimately be subjective and likely to ban more quirky mons than meta mons in the process. If we just add raw stat limits, then the best mons will still be the ones that can brush up against the limits using the same items and abilities, while it just becomes more unclear for new players what's allowed or not. Some mons don't even function based on having high stats like Blissey or Mega Sableye.

Overall I'm not as pessimistic about the state of the format as you but I'm not opposed to hearing out people's thoughts on the matter. I just think there's nothing wrong innately with this topic of there being consistently viable mons in a developed format. It's not like Gen 1 or 2 OU is in a terrible situation that has to change with adding bans just because the best mons have been there for 20 years, and other mons can be played in lower tiers which sounds like what you're asking for. Basically it sounds like you want to play Metronome UU to me.

 

[DMPenguin]

Hi Can we have a 6v6 metronome random battle format? So like a random battle expect every Pokemon gets a random ability and the leppa berry and the move metronome? Thanks for your time.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Hi Can we have a 6v6 metronome random battle format? So like a random battle expect every Pokemon gets a random ability and the leppa berry and the move metronome? Thanks for your time.

What's the point of that? All you are doing is turning a battle that takes at worst 20 turns to a battle that could take up to 120 (Struggle).

 

[DMPenguin]

What's the point of that? All you are doing is turning a battle that takes at worst 20 turns to a battle that could take up to 120 (Struggle).

I find that fun and I think that there are others who would as well like my friend vodkacrazymanvc

 

[InkyDarkBird]

I find that fun and I think that there are others who would as well like my friend vodkacrazymanvc

How is making battle times longer in a format based almost entirely on luck fun?
Furthermore, you need a better argument than just saying it is "fun". There has to be something unique that separates it from normal Metronome Battles for it to become an actual ladder.

 

[DIOderent]

decided to make a really generic mirror herb + pickup team cause i got bored

team

peach (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome

lemon (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

(note about the 2nd pecharunt, it has 0 speed evs and ivs just to die last with perish song when it can, since its a problem i ran into quite a bit)

yeah not much to say, pecharunt has good typing for immunities to normal+fighting moves and getting poisoned. also a replay (before i changed the evs and ivs of one of them) of it cause why not:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9metronomebattle-2142236997

edit: this thing goes kinda crazy at times... but one thing to note is that when a weakness policy from an opponent is used, you're probably gonna pick up their weakness policy instead of getting back a mirror herb. which can work in your favor maybe, but it usually doesn't

 

[Sevi 7]

I find that fun and I think that there are others who would as well like my friend vodkacrazymanvc

This is already a small community and the ladder is dead a lot as it is. I think dividing it even further with a 2v2 and 6v6 ladder is going to exacerbate those problems.
If you’re just looking for one you can easily pull up for custom games then yeah I agree that could be good. But you can play that format in hackmons as a work around for now.

 

[black cat no hat]

decided to make a really generic mirror herb + pickup team cause i got bored

team

peach (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome

lemon (Pecharunt) @ Mirror Herb
Ability: Pickup
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Looks really cool

 

[doipy hooves]

Happy Bidoof Day 2024! July is an interesting month for Metronome Battles because it marks the halfway point of the year and the start of the northern summer, a time that can be used for more work or play, and also marks the 4th anniversary of these usage stat posts from humble beginnings. While there hasn't been much official Pokemon news, I immediately noticed a surprise meta shift when opening the usage stats for June.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-06/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-06/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt

The battle count has risen back up to 22114, making a recovery from last month's fall but generally still lower than usual.

June 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Pecharunt (#5)
#2: Mega Venusaur (#1)
#3: Mega Heracross (#2)
#4: Ting-Lu (#3)
#5: Blissey (#6)
#6: Guzzlord (#4)
#7: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#8: Mega Sableye (#9)
#9: Dusclops (#11)
#10: Mega Gengar (#8)

Immediately we can all see that after months of Pecharunt being around the top 5 and peaking at #3 behind the big two megas, it has forced itself into the #1 position for the first time. This may be more because of stagnation in the meta or also because a few teams of Pecharunt have been posted around the thread, but either way Venusaur and Heracross's raw usage has fallen along with the total battles to the 6000s, while Pecharunt's usage of ~4000 has been fairly consistent even when the battle count was higher and is still enough to land it in 3rd highest raw usage. Speaking of which, Heracross actually beats Venusaur's raw usage as well, and the moveset file shows this difference even more with 6917 to 7567, which I think is due to it counting mons that appear twice more properly than the main stats file so I might try to refer to those from now on. Otherwise most of the changes are just a result of shuffling down and general variance in the lower places.

Some dark horses of the month include Type: Null making it up relatively high to #11 with 553 (moveset) uses though it's had better showings, and Deoxys-Defense making possibly its best showing yet that I can think of at #16/1139 uses. Drifblim is the first other nonstandard name I see at #29/390, and I don't think it's had any kind of similar showing before. (I searched the thread for mentions, and it was also in #29 in May 2021's stats as well as having pretty high uses/viability ceiling in January 2022). At the least it puts it above Dragonite and Mega Slowbro, who's fallen quite a bit since #10 last time, though with about the same raw usage as back then.

Getting into the moveset file, we can see that Pecharunt seems to be primarily succeeding with Toxic Chain, though Pickup and Magic Bounce follow behind and combine for about as much usage. Mirror Herb is the key item regardless of set though, but Covert Cloak and Clear Amulet still have 10% weighted usages as well. Mega Venusaur's stats have reversed course with Flower Veil having a safe lead again and Mirror Herb barely rising over Weakness Policy while Choice Specs is left behind, and Heracross is about the same way with Defiant dropping off to a point where even Scrappy is above it. Ting-Lu is back to having Toxic Chain lead with Magic Bounce/Simple/Good as Gold all hanging around the 10% mark, while Mirror Herb/Covert Cloak/Weakness Policy are all spread around the same usage rates in the 20s. As for the dark horses, Type: Null represents the return of Friend Guard bonkstall, I just noticed Abomasnow has Defiant in the lead while scrolling through, Deoxys-Defense is more of a Toxic Chain staller, and Drifblim mainly runs Good as Gold/Magic Bounce about evenly with Covert Cloak and a Pecharunt partner.

Over into the viability ceilings (highest GXE of a player that used the pokemon), max out at 80 once again but with a completely different makeup of Heracross/Blissey/Aurumoth (Pickup/Mirror Herb), followed by Dusclops (bonkstall Friend Guard with Type: Null) and Dragapult (Magic Bounce/Good as Gold/Toxic Chain, Mirror Herb/Weakness Policy/Choice Band/Normalium Z) at 79, Venusaur and Ting-Lu sharing a place but fallen to 78 since last time, and tying everything together with 11 mons at 77 with Sableye (Symbiosis in a distant 2nd for some reason), Mega Gengar (Magic Bounce/Competitive leading back), Type: Null, and Necturna (Dauntless Shield in 2nd behind Flower Veil over Thick Fat). Overall I would say this feels a lot more standard than the last month in terms of the popular moveset options, but we did start with Pecharunt defining the meta, so perhaps it is a tradeoff of recent developments. Thanks for your reading.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Toxic Chain should be looked at. It absolutely shreds bulky offense teams that don't use Flower Veil, Pastel Veil, or double Magic Guard.
It is different from Poison Touch because it cannot be outhealed by anything except for Rest, Jungle Healing, and Lunar Blessing.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Can we hold a tiering survey on a Google Form? The last time a survey (kind of unofficial, too) was held was nearly a year ago.

 

[ULTRAV01D]

I honestly think we should ban something (probably toxic chain or Pecharunt) just because of this meta being incredibly stale. There are 4 mons that are objectively better than every other mon being Mega Venusaur, Mega Heracross, Ting-Lu, and Pecharunt and by not using one of these, you’re putting yourself at a severe disadvantage. Obviously this kind of issue is gonna exist in any meta where you can’t customize your moves but I feel like it’s extra bad right now as there are only a few viable abilities being toxic chain, magic bounce/good as gold, and flower veil. This makes team building incredibly dull. With pecharunt has amazing stats and the actual best typing possibly in metronome battles and Ting-Lu currently having the best stat spread I’m the meta, there isn’t a reason to use most other mons.

I love metronome battles but I don’t think the top threats should be the only ones viable. Although I don’t think this meta has anything extremely broken, I think we need a ban just to make other mons or abilities viable.

 

[DIOderent]

I honestly think we should ban something (probably toxic chain or Pecharunt) just because of this meta being incredibly stale.

honestly, i would be happy with just a toxic chain ban, cause it's annoying having to force every team to answer it (by using covert cloak, poison types, pastel veil, etc.) it makes teambuilding feel a lot more restrictive on its own

 

[Ivy]

Yeah we can remove the toxic chain. Welcome back Bonk Stall (:

 

[Lily_Abnormality]

Been running with blacephalon, and honestly kind of love it. The two outspeed basically the whole meta, and I've been expirimenting with things like specs, magic bounce, normalium-Z. Right now I'm using mirror herb + pickup, and I'm wondering if anyone has some suggestions

 

[Sevi 7]

Lily_Abnormality

I use it a lot myself. It’s got a good mixed attack option and Ghost Fire is a pretty good typing. it’s a real fragile mon though, as in you can’t be disappointed if it dies Turn 2. I think it’s best for HO and just having as much power as soon as possible is the best for it. Pick up Herb sometimes doesn’t get going until Turn 5 or later, and so I think Choice or another boosting item is best for it.

This is my best team with it. It just tries to get off as most power as possible as soon as possible. But a more bulky offense strat with Hera or a more balanced strat with Venu or Pech is better imo.

 

[Lily_Abnormality]

Thank you, I really appreciate this

 

[Ivy]

Lily_Abnormality

I use it a lot myself. It’s got a good mixed attack option and Ghost Fire is a pretty good typing. it’s a real fragile mon though, as in you can’t be disappointed if it dies Turn 2. I think it’s best for HO and just having as much power as soon as possible is the best for it. Pick up Herb sometimes doesn’t get going until Turn 5 or later, and so I think Choice or another boosting item is best for it.

This is my best team with it. It just tries to get off as most power as possible as soon as possible. But a more bulky offense strat with Hera or a more balanced strat with Venu or Pech is better imo.

Yeah you mention Heracross right there and there's no reason to not use it over deoxys; it can still terastelize and actually has enough bulk to not die to the first Tackle that comes its way

 

[doipy hooves]

Happy August! Entering a new era after almost a year since its release, Toxic Chain was officially banned on July 20th, so July's usage stats are more of an in-between until we see the full ramifications of this ban. I think overall things will look more like they did pre-DLC1, but I'm interested to see if there will be any resurgence in Poison Touch in the aftermath, or if another apex combo like Pickup Herb will just fill in the gaps until people feel more comfortable trying to counter those with the lack of needing to block Toxic Chain.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-07/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-07/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt

The battle count dips back to 20769, still hanging around the 20k mark and not quite back to 30k.

July 2024: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions:
#1: Mega Venusaur (#2)
#2: Pecharunt (#1)
#3: Ting-Lu (#4)
#4: Mega Heracross (#3)
#5: Mega Ampharos (#7)
#6: Blissey (#5)
#7: Mega Gengar (#10)
#8: Necturna (#14)
#9: Mega Sableye (#8)
#10: Guzzlord (#6)

Venusaur has already made it back on top for the gold, though Pecharunt is still managing a medal-level placement. In terms of raw usage, Venusaur has definitely recovered from last month making it up to 8000, while Ting-Lu also gained, Heracross fell slightly, and Pecharunt actually stayed around the 4000s. Toxic Chain levels on Venusaur and Ting-Lu are actually about the same as last month if not even higher, but Pickup has barely surpassed Toxic Chain on Pecharunt already, 40 vs. 39%. Guzzlord is hanging in 10th even with <1000 uses, while dark horses of the month include Pokestar UFO at 14th with 398 uses, Iron Hands at #18 with 483 uses, and the wilder pick of Chromera at #22 with 551 uses, who is still pretty high on that Toxic Chain usage.

Looking into the moveset file for viability ceilings (highest GXE achieved out of everyone using that pokemon), we start off strong at 81 with Mega Venusaur medaling twice (WP finally up over Herb and Relaxed/Quiet 0 Speed in the lead now), along with Snorlax's surprise appearance representing Defiant and Pickup strats, with Venusaur as a partner to explain why. Following up in 80 for silver, we have Marowak and Marowak-Alola-Totem doubling up on Defiant/Thick Club to maximize attack. Finally at 79, we give away 5 bronze medals to Mega Heracross, Dusclops and Type: Null (still repping Magic Guard), Mega Slowbro (Ice Scales/Delta Stream/Analytic vying above 10%, and Bright Powder with 44% usage?), and finally Xurkitree with 23% Mycelium Might usage for some reason, along with Toxic Chain/Hadron Engine/Defiant/Super Luck above 10%, and Mental Herb/Metronome/Specs/Scope Lens/Weakness Policy in the same boat, with a 31% Porygon2 partner. I can't really explain this one, but I guess it had to have peaked with Venusaur if none of the other partners even match its ceiling. Thanks for your reading.

 

[TDLoriat]

I have worked to improve my standing in the tier, and I do not plan on stopping. But odds are this will be the last time I devote as much energy as I have currently into this tier for a long time.
This tier is horrifyingly overcentralized around mirror herb and toxic chain. Poison typing is fine, but need for a poison immunity that doesn't sacrifice an ability slot is second to none. Mirror herb, with or without pickup, is by far the most prevalent item chosen, far outpacing weakness policy. Weakness policy has more strict limits, while also being negatively impacted by things like tera ghost. Mega Venusaur, Ting Lu, and Pecharunt are by far the most dominant and consistent (Speaking from experience), only Ting Lu struggles to find use on multiple team styles (flower veil is where it sees the most use). I don't know how to balance the tier or make the experience more balanced, but the tier feels like the same experience every game, and that's not just because you face the same 3 people on ladder.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

This tier is horrifyingly overcentralized around mirror herb and toxic chain. Poison typing is fine, but need for a poison immunity that doesn't sacrifice an ability slot is second to none. Mirror herb, with or without pickup, is by far the most prevalent item chosen, far outpacing weakness policy. Weakness policy has more strict limits, while also being negatively impacted by things like tera ghost. Mega Venusaur, Ting Lu, and Pecharunt are by far the most dominant and consistent (Speaking from experience), only Ting Lu struggles to find use on multiple team styles (flower veil is where it sees the most use). I don't know how to balance the tier or make the experience more balanced, but the tier feels like the same experience every game, and that's not just because you face the same 3 people on ladder.

Toxic Chain is banned, and right now I feel like Mega-Venusaur with Flower Veil and Ting-Lu are more centralizing. Being immune to all stat debuffs and many status moves is very difficult to face.