Not really. HJK has so much power, and he needs it. Besides, if you miss, you lose half your health, but then you switch out, and Regenerator heals you back up to 83% of your health.
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Mienshao
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
Not really. HJK has so much power, and he needs it. Besides, if you miss, you lose half your health, but then you switch out, and Regenerator heals you back up to 83% of your health.
With drain punch, I don't see him dying very quickly. BTW, out of curiousity, exactly how much health does he lose if HJK misses??
half of full hp
That means that if mienshao has less than half of its HP left, all your opponent needs to do is send in a ghost (on HJK) and you're dead. If you have drain punch or low sweep, you don't have to worry about mispredicting.
You have Regeneration. Minesheo should never be under 50% unles it was hit by an attack on the switch-in oroutsped, which then it's pretty much dead either way. HJK just has too much power to think of passing it up for a much more weaker option (more then half actually)
Yes, prediction won't matter, because now your opponent can send in anything mildly bulky to absorb a mere Drain Punch before OHKOing your 100% Mienshao.
Dealing massive damage to your opponent is much more important than 50% of Mienshao's HP that you're going to lose anyway (if you don't get KOed entirely anyway) when your opponent survives the hit.
If it was Conkledurr, it'd be different, but we're talking about the pokemon with the lowest defenses out of any fully evolved fighting type.
Considering U-Turn, it's not really a "counter", seeing as Latias is weak to that move and you'll likely be up against a counter before Turn 2 even begins.
It is by no means a liability. Fake Out + Hi Jump Kick can KO quite a lot of things, and even if you mispredict and they switch in a Ghost, it has Regenerator, so it isn't as crippling as you suggest. Plus, you can U-Turn on a predicted Ghost switch to gain switch advantage. Along that note, neither Drain Punch nor Low Sweep have enough power, and Mienshao can't really take hits from any offensive 'mon, so it will just get off a weak hit and then die.
Since Latias is faster than Mienshao, and threatens STAB psychic (and probably gets a KO with dragon pulse anyway), a hard switch is better in this situation.
What can tank a hit from mienshao and OHKO back (a hit from a +1 maximum attack life orb mienshao)?? Not much I reckon.
Uh, anything with moderate defenses? Even 0/0 Starmie can easily survive a +1 LO Drain Punch, while High Jump Kick OHKOs nearly all the time. Same against Conkledurr (76.29% - 90.00% with Drain Punch versus >>>100% with HJK). Like, ANYTHING moderately bulky can easily absorb a Drain Punch. I mean, seriously, Drain Punch hardly has more power than a NFE HJK.
And no, it's not going to survive anything from those guys.
With stealth rock up, I doubt starmie can survive a drain punch (Assuming that's what he comes into. In the case of u-turn, you're probably dead). And as far as conkeldurr is concerned, he's probably OHKO'd too assuming you've got at least one layer of spikes up. Also, what if mienshao runs bulk up instead?? I don't think conkeldurr can OHKO mienshao at +1 defense with mach punch. You're also forgetting that mienshao also gets acrobatics, which may be able to OHKO him as well after 1 bulk up boost.
Course it won't OHKO you at +1 defense. It'll just fire off another Mach Puch and kill you then while you're trying to attack.
Seriously. HJK + Regenerator is the reason why Mienshao is even being considered. Damn strong and damn frail means all the power it can get as quickly as possible.
Yes, but can conkeldurr survive a +1 boosted drain punch after spikes damage??
Fake Out and Regenerator are the reason you'd use this thing. Seriously, add on passive damage support like Toxic and you have yourself a winner. I often find myself using Fake Out with this thing just to stall for more Toxic damage than I can count.
There are times I've considered building a team around the concept of Toxic damage and Fake Out abuse with Mienshao. Still, I'm sure our friend appreciates some good partners to swap out/U-turn to.
I'm mainly seeing bulkier Steels/faster mons and Psychic types to be a thorn in his side, so perhaps the likes of Volcarona can pair up offensively to dispose of Steels/Psychics?
There are times I've considered building a team around the concept of Toxic damage and Fake Out abuse with Mienshao. Still, I'm sure our friend appreciates some good partners to swap out/U-turn to.
I'm mainly seeing bulkier Steels/faster mons and Psychic types to be a thorn in his side, so perhaps the likes of Volcarona can pair up offensively to dispose of Steels/Psychics?
Be honest. Who is going to switch in a Conkeldurr on a Mienshao? Most people would run a bulky physical wall or a Ghost. Also, by the time you're setting up Bulk Ups, the opponent's just going to hit you hard with Special Attacks. Mienshao's fast, but there's quite a bit that can outspeed it.
It can. Do the freaking calcs.
15.38% on a never-seen 0/0 Conkeldurr. You've got 0% chance on a 252/0 one. That loss of an entire 55 BP between HJK and Drain Punch is THAT massive...
A single Drain Punch + Mach Punch finishes it off easily.
Acrobatics + HJK > Acrobatics + Drain Punch
Acrobatics, while nice, is irrelevant to how HJK is still superior in nearly all cases to Drain Punch.
I can talk about this ALL night lol. What's gonna switch into this guy?? Gliscor?? 2HKO'd by a naughty mixed sweeper with HP ice at +1 special attack (work up). Shanderaa...risks switching into a stone edge. Burungeruu (haven't done calcs but I'm assuming a naughty mienshao at +1 special attack could 2HKO with grass knot after stealth rock). Vaporeon is probably 2HKO'd with aura sphere by the same mienshao after stealth rock. Golurk (again haven't done calculations but he's probably 2HKO'd by the same mienshao with HP ice). These are some of the most popular walls. Anyone else you'd like to mention??
You haven't done a single damage calc, have you? And btw, Skarmory says hi, but as I said, this whole thing is completely irrelevant to Drain Punch vs HJK.
Not to mention, that Mienshao has no place using Drain Punch at all whatsoever, and would certainly go for HJK over Drain Punch.
You seem to be missing the point. The point is that he doesn't need HJK. He can still 2HKO all these pokemon using a different move. And no, I haven't done calcs but I plan on doing them tomorrow.
It's a "3HKO" since you have to Work Up first >_>
That versus HJK's 2HKO on a good deal of the metagame without any setup whatsoever.
And how do you even know if those attacks even 2HKO if you haven't done ANY calcs?
And once again, 50% health hardly does anything for Mienshao direct-damage-wise, especially with Regen covering the residual damage.
Seriously, no Mienshao runs Grass Knot. HP Ice is good enough for a special attack. Also, Jellicent comes in, lols at Grass knot, Will o Wisp's you, and you're screwed.
Again, Mienshao's fast and powerful. However, lots of things outspeed it (Starmie, Lati@s for example) and it can get walled easily (Bulky Ghosts, Physical walls, you name it). It's going to find no time to set up boosting moves before either getting OHKO'd/2HKO'd at best or getting status'd.
lmitchell0012 said:
Lets just say he doesn't need HJK. Even then why not use it, it is by far his most powerful move, and the only other option being suggested is Drain Punch, but, really, the only damage it would ever get to heal would be its own recoil from LO or HJK, and that's what Regenerator is there for. Face it, with 65/60/60 defenses, he is not taking any hits from anything, so what's the point of healing damage?
lmitchell0012 said:
Additionally, this situation would never even happen. Even at +1 it is not as powerful as you might think when using Drain Punch. But more importantly, why are you running maximum attack? I take this to mean Adamant, or actually Naughty or Lonely, or else you would probably be SDing instead. Having a +Atk nature would severely ruin its chances at being effective, cause one of its biggest perks is its good speed tier. And if it is having a hard time killing stuff with +Atk, it is not going to even come close with +Spe.
Drain punch should be used in any defensive Meinshao sets. But if you're using him defensively, you're using him worng. Stick with Fakeout/HJK + Regenerator. Awesome lead and makeshift revenge-killer.
Has anyone else noticed the incorrect spelling of the title? On a related note, I never considered Drain Punch because it is much too easy to scout for Protect/Ghosts. The best part is, they might keep their non-Ghost lead in while you Fake Out because they'll sometimes think they can suprise you by sending a Ghost out on your HJK (In Random Matchup of course, it's easy to know if they have a Ghost on their team in normal 6v6, but in 3v3 they might not choose that Jellicent or whatever cuz of something you have on your team that counters it). I usually Fake Out then U-Turn to avoid that trap.