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Media Minecraft Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
I'm not sure that would really mean much Rawbi, not everyone on the server is American. I know the Koffing head is the kicker but the symbolism/ideology behind it would be lost to some (through no fault of their own).
In other news, I'm seeking char/coal to begin a mass torching effort. Getting kind of annoyed with the monsters that wonder in from the forest/hills that riddle the spawn's entrance. If you can contribute any just put it in a chest at spawn. And to show just how big of a deal this is, here's a screenshot of one side of spawn, and as you can see the sun hasn't even completely set yet:
Also, it would be awesome if somebody could lead an effort to make a shack or something around the Nether portal in the forest, with maybe a shallow underground tunnel leading to spawn. Exiting the Nether at night is not a great experience. (If this is already done I apologize, haven't been to the portal in a few hours) The Nether portal is now at spawn it seems, and exits directly at spawn as well. Huzzah!
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Lastly I want to vent my reasoning for opposing /spawn and /home. I realize the way the polls are going this isn't going to matter but whatever:
In other news, I'm seeking char/coal to begin a mass torching effort. Getting kind of annoyed with the monsters that wonder in from the forest/hills that riddle the spawn's entrance. If you can contribute any just put it in a chest at spawn. And to show just how big of a deal this is, here's a screenshot of one side of spawn, and as you can see the sun hasn't even completely set yet:
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Lastly I want to vent my reasoning for opposing /spawn and /home. I realize the way the polls are going this isn't going to matter but whatever:
This has nothing to do with making Minecraft an "Action-Adventure game," but instead keeping trade-offs present in the world. If you're forced to foot travel certain distances, it's going to affect where you build and how much you explore as it should. With both /spawn and /home, you lose a sense of boundaries and risk, going overly far or digging tunnels in circles because you know you can just beam yourself out of a tight situation.
Basically, these commands just encourages people to build out 10,000 meters because there's no consequence to them, or explore 2000 blocks out for resources rather than a few hundred because you have to factor in daylight (which I want to add lasts a really long time) and direction. Why only go out a couple hundred when you can go as far as your imagination allows and go back and forth on a whim? You want to have your cake and eat it too, in a sense. That's bogus. This kind of reckless thinking ends up costing the community at large a much greater deal, because it takes non-renewable resources to make rails, and if others want to check out your place they have to sit on a monotonous ride just to check it out (but not you, so why should you care?).
And don't tell me that things happens where people need it; I got lost in a Mineshaft for 2 hours yesterday (and the blasted server crash reboot put me back in there ;_;) but I'm still vehemently opposed to it. I also don't want to hear "If you don't like it you don't have to use it," because if it's available I will use it. I'm not going to disadvantage myself while everyone else is getting instant gratification. But we don't need that instant gratification, Spawn being an excellent example. Spawn has been done (and very beautifully) without a handicap.
Doesn't have to do with cheating or morals, doesn't have to do with keeping it Vanilla or making it into an Adventure game, it has everything to do with keeping people in reality, not spoiling ourselves and letting people mosey around with reckless abandon. You should be conscious of your actions and your distances. I simply don't believe that spoiling ourselves will instantly make the game more accessible or "fun." If anything I imagine it becoming more of a chore, because everyone will put such extreme emphasis on making extravagant homes, and without any danger, risk, or planning involved, gathering materials isn't a task, it's a chore. Plain and simple.
That's my opinion on the matter.
Basically, these commands just encourages people to build out 10,000 meters because there's no consequence to them, or explore 2000 blocks out for resources rather than a few hundred because you have to factor in daylight (which I want to add lasts a really long time) and direction. Why only go out a couple hundred when you can go as far as your imagination allows and go back and forth on a whim? You want to have your cake and eat it too, in a sense. That's bogus. This kind of reckless thinking ends up costing the community at large a much greater deal, because it takes non-renewable resources to make rails, and if others want to check out your place they have to sit on a monotonous ride just to check it out (but not you, so why should you care?).
And don't tell me that things happens where people need it; I got lost in a Mineshaft for 2 hours yesterday (and the blasted server crash reboot put me back in there ;_;) but I'm still vehemently opposed to it. I also don't want to hear "If you don't like it you don't have to use it," because if it's available I will use it. I'm not going to disadvantage myself while everyone else is getting instant gratification. But we don't need that instant gratification, Spawn being an excellent example. Spawn has been done (and very beautifully) without a handicap.
Doesn't have to do with cheating or morals, doesn't have to do with keeping it Vanilla or making it into an Adventure game, it has everything to do with keeping people in reality, not spoiling ourselves and letting people mosey around with reckless abandon. You should be conscious of your actions and your distances. I simply don't believe that spoiling ourselves will instantly make the game more accessible or "fun." If anything I imagine it becoming more of a chore, because everyone will put such extreme emphasis on making extravagant homes, and without any danger, risk, or planning involved, gathering materials isn't a task, it's a chore. Plain and simple.
That's my opinion on the matter.
Gaming has been seriously diminished with the lack of cheat codes lately, especially unlockable ones. I'm all for playing a game correctly the first time through and then doing everything you can to make it more fun the second time. Hell, I modded Half-Life 2 to add Bullet Time and then I only played through with the revolver and it was amazing.
The Sims, another creativity game, wouldn't be half as popular as it is if the people solely interested in building and furnishing houses didn't have cheat codes to expedite that. Having built one the largest (and definitely most complex) structures in original smogcraft, a tiny fraction of the work was collecting/transporting compared to planning and building, but as planning and building the RPD took over half a year every /warp counted.
Having built one of the farther away settlements as well, I can say that I did it purely because I wanted easy access to new resources in a recent patch and in fact I built it exactly where the trees started changing. Most of us were pretty new to MC at the time, and I'd really rather build something much closer this time so that more people can explore it. However, any distance can mean a 10 minute commercial break and that's simply unacceptable when we can avoid it. We have boundaries to encourage people to build closer anyway.
Anyone who thinks that /home means that players will stop adventuring and stop getting ganked by creepers is seriously delusional. What /home and /spawn WILL do is encourage players to explore far outside of their homes and see what other people have built. Leaving RPD to explore Spawn and the surrounding areas would have meant about 45 minutes of just walking/hiding through areas I had already thoroughly explored. Warps gives players far more incentive to adventure farther. Interacting more with the community should NOT be a "trade-off".
And also Veedrock, you keep using words like "spoiling ourselves" and "instant gratification" and it's super condescending given that I spent 6 months working on the RPD. I don't think the people who spent months building scale replications of the Starship Enterprise and Hogwarts just wanted "instant gratification" just because they used fly and /give.
We run into the same problem we did with Smogcraft 1 then. Let's say we have both /home and /spawn. Eventually the map will be bigger. Person A's settlement and /home is at X=3000. Person B is at x=-2000 and his /home is also set there. The best they can do to get to each other is going to /spawn and walking or using a railway if it works out.
The very exploration that you want is gonna be a problem long term. The reason I want only /spawn, is because it encourages people into trying to keep close to spawn.
I understand there is no perfect solution to this which is why I'd rather "bully" people to be close to spawn so in the long term it works out better.
Also before someone suggests, I'd like to say multiple warps is something we won't be doing anytime soon. Something drastic would need to happen.
What happened to boundaries?
I agree with Veedrock here. The mass mobs are almost insane. Take where my oasis home is, where the christma tree is located. One night I saw 6 creepers in that area. And a day later, I saw 3 creepers gathering around the christmas tree. That place is infested with them. It would be much easier if the whole place was torched. Of course, I will try to help whenever I can.
ok posting some pics
blazes are annoying shit to work with. ghasts + redstone + glass = trouble.
oh my god I can't second this enough. I hate ghasts. As I type this, I hear them shooting me.
save me
I know of several server-side plugins that can add physical warps/portals to the game. IMO this would be a nice halfway since portals can be placed at convenient locations throughout the server but you still have to travel a bit of distance to them. The reason I oppose /home and /spawn is, even though it's annoying to get killed repeatedly by mobs, it removes all opportunity cost from the game. Take mining, for instance. With /home or /spawn you can dig as deep as you want without having to worry about coming back up. The same applies when fighting mobs; if you're low on health, you can just warp out anytime. While I don't deny that Minecraft is primarily a creative game, the survival aspect also provides a fair bit of entertainment value that shouldn't be ignored. After all, if the creative aspect is all that's important, why not just have the server in creative mode?
EDIT: Alternatively, perhaps you can put 30-minute or so cooldowns on /home or /spawn
EDIT: Alternatively, perhaps you can put 30-minute or so cooldowns on /home or /spawn
The thing is that it's a matter of choice. If somebody builds way out of the way from everyone, they are choosing to settle at an inconvenient distance from the rest of the community. What I'm trying to say is don't cry fowl at the server to alleviate self-afflicted problems.
I'm sorry if it offends you but warping is spoiled. The simple truth is that isn't necessary. Frankly idk how to word what I mean without either sounding anti-creativity or like a complete jackass so I'll stick with the latter.
Concerning the RPD, I get that it was a huge project but this isn't a creative server. Again I'm not saying this to stifle creative building or discourage large projects, but you shouldn't blame the server for not providing you with every convenience, you should account for what you need. Don't know how to say it any better than that :/
And the Starship and Hogwarts examples aren't really fitting our situation, those were Creative projects. I don't have issues with people using any kind of mods in Creative/single player. In fact I generally agree that cheats add to gameplay (my fondest memories were using an Action Replay on Gamecube titles), but I draw the line at multiplayer, too many toes to step on.
Boundaries exist but they will expand and gradually keep expanding. That is when problems will come up.
And thinking about it, (current) boundaries are an excellent reason on why we don't need warping. You can go from spawn to the far boundary corner and back well before day ends, probably twice over.
General speak: The Enchanting room is simply fantastic. Excellent execution.
This is another instance where accommodating one group of people in no way hinders another regardless of how anal retentive you want to be about it. This is the equivalent of people being pissed off at others who talk on blue-tooth headsets in public. It's snobbery.
You know another prominent game series that involves travel times of between 20 minutes to 10 hours depending on the game? The Elder Scrolls, and every single Elder Scroll game had fast travel. Because vast places to explore is good game design, but forcing the player to spend time walking is bad game design.
The risk/reward argument is such bullshit. There is no risk in traveling in Minecraft when you can dig a hole. What did you say, why would you inconvenience yourself when you can warp? Well then why would you take risks when you can take 10 minutes breaks every 10 minutes?
I was challenged and died plenty of times just building RPD. And I'm ok with that. Minecraft is 100% a creative game, but not everyone plays creative mode because being creative through adversity is fun too. 10 minute downtimes are not adversity. Warp ONLY gets rid of those. It does not get rid of mining, or dying, or adventuring, and it sure as hell doesn't kick your dog. It is 110% convenience.
(And it really busts my balls that people would still say shit like "Well if they wanna create, why not make a creative server" as they make elaborate monster traps and beautiful community centers. It'd be like saying "If you wanna play Survival, why do you build anything?")
Blame the server, what does that even mean? I blame the people running a smogon minecraft server with over a hundred players for even considering dropping /home, and I voice my opinion so that no one makes the mistake that the majority is in any way inconveniencing the vocal minority here.
It only comes down to whether or not you want 10 minutes downtimes in travel, and I'd rather establish /home now then have this debate everytime the boundaries widen.
You know another prominent game series that involves travel times of between 20 minutes to 10 hours depending on the game? The Elder Scrolls, and every single Elder Scroll game had fast travel. Because vast places to explore is good game design, but forcing the player to spend time walking is bad game design.
The risk/reward argument is such bullshit. There is no risk in traveling in Minecraft when you can dig a hole. What did you say, why would you inconvenience yourself when you can warp? Well then why would you take risks when you can take 10 minutes breaks every 10 minutes?
I was challenged and died plenty of times just building RPD. And I'm ok with that. Minecraft is 100% a creative game, but not everyone plays creative mode because being creative through adversity is fun too. 10 minute downtimes are not adversity. Warp ONLY gets rid of those. It does not get rid of mining, or dying, or adventuring, and it sure as hell doesn't kick your dog. It is 110% convenience.
(And it really busts my balls that people would still say shit like "Well if they wanna create, why not make a creative server" as they make elaborate monster traps and beautiful community centers. It'd be like saying "If you wanna play Survival, why do you build anything?")
Blame the server, what does that even mean? I blame the people running a smogon minecraft server with over a hundred players for even considering dropping /home, and I voice my opinion so that no one makes the mistake that the majority is in any way inconveniencing the vocal minority here.
It only comes down to whether or not you want 10 minutes downtimes in travel, and I'd rather establish /home now then have this debate everytime the boundaries widen.
Look.
Me, forks, Layell, Dan at one point, and likely Ben all like vanilla Minecraft. That is what we generally prefer to play, and what we enjoy playing with multiple people. I (and I'm pretty sure the others) don't want to play on a server where half the people are flying around and such. One thing we (and a lot of others, I can tell) have enjoyed are people asking to help on spawn, everyone working together to gather resources and break mountains and such. We want to keep this kind of thing going on the server because we see it as something everyone is enjoying and also because we ourselves enjoy it.
I guess it might be a bit selfish of us. But the server ran this way for over a year and only grew more popular as time went on. Our viewpoint of keeping Minecraft as vanilla as we can seems to have worked in getting a player base and if we are getting a player base that means we are doing something right at least.
We probably (read: definitely) can run the server better than we are now, but at the same time, we are a Minecraft server that doesn't take itself all that seriously. If you like how our server is, come and chill. If not, sorry.
tl;dr - We are a vanilla Minecraft server 'cause we want to be and from what we can tell that's how people enjoy it so we'll keep it that way for the foreseeable future.
As related to /home and /spawn and some stuff around it.
The thing with warps is we always wanted to get rid of them on Smogcraft 1, but we never did 'cause we felt it'd be unfair to anyone who built far away and they were stripped of those tools. With Smogcraft 2, we has some discussion on whether to only use /spawn or /home or both or none or whatever. We figured we would take a vote on it.
I guess this is a fault on us but since a lot of us on the "moderating team" are biased to less warps so we wanted to do a trial period for people before we put up a vote so people wouldn't automatically just voted the one they were used to and they liked for being the most convenient. We
I'm guessing we'll end up with both /home and /spawn from what I saw on the poll but I'm sorry that we never really did an announcement for how we were going about it. We only really talked about it on #smogcraft.
wow why did i just write a press statement woah
Me, forks, Layell, Dan at one point, and likely Ben all like vanilla Minecraft. That is what we generally prefer to play, and what we enjoy playing with multiple people. I (and I'm pretty sure the others) don't want to play on a server where half the people are flying around and such. One thing we (and a lot of others, I can tell) have enjoyed are people asking to help on spawn, everyone working together to gather resources and break mountains and such. We want to keep this kind of thing going on the server because we see it as something everyone is enjoying and also because we ourselves enjoy it.
I guess it might be a bit selfish of us. But the server ran this way for over a year and only grew more popular as time went on. Our viewpoint of keeping Minecraft as vanilla as we can seems to have worked in getting a player base and if we are getting a player base that means we are doing something right at least.
We probably (read: definitely) can run the server better than we are now, but at the same time, we are a Minecraft server that doesn't take itself all that seriously. If you like how our server is, come and chill. If not, sorry.
tl;dr - We are a vanilla Minecraft server 'cause we want to be and from what we can tell that's how people enjoy it so we'll keep it that way for the foreseeable future.
As related to /home and /spawn and some stuff around it.
The thing with warps is we always wanted to get rid of them on Smogcraft 1, but we never did 'cause we felt it'd be unfair to anyone who built far away and they were stripped of those tools. With Smogcraft 2, we has some discussion on whether to only use /spawn or /home or both or none or whatever. We figured we would take a vote on it.
I guess this is a fault on us but since a lot of us on the "moderating team" are biased to less warps so we wanted to do a trial period for people before we put up a vote so people wouldn't automatically just voted the one they were used to and they liked for being the most convenient. We
I'm guessing we'll end up with both /home and /spawn from what I saw on the poll but I'm sorry that we never really did an announcement for how we were going about it. We only really talked about it on #smogcraft.
wow why did i just write a press statement woah
the blaze spawner? if so thanks because when done it'll probs be very useful as an exp grinder and for potions (also don't forget that blaze rods are very good fuel if a little costly).
on the warp debate, i feel that /spawn is what really matters now. spawn is a hub, and so much takes place there; having to travel there by foot is rather inconvenient and time-consuming. /home is unnecessary for now as every location is near spawn. you needn't have /home (at least for now) but /spawn is amazingly useful because you can coordinate many sorts of activities from the hub of the world. trade? go to spawn. exploration? meet at spawn.
spawn is the hub of the server, and besides offering a safe haven to all players, it makes coordinating things so much easier. just warp to spawn and we're ready to go!
just my two cents.
I'm against implementing /home not only because it is not necessary at the moment but because it can encourage mild cheating. Stuck in an endless cave and you haven't bothered putting markers down, it's fine just teleport home. Need to dispatch a dungeon, not a problem just sethome, and keep ravaging those skeles. Want to make a mineshaft 1000 block long, don't worry about going back just teleport home!
The point is that /home is easily abused
The point is that /home is easily abused
I still pose the argument that even if other people like to use /spawn and /home, that still in no way forces those who don't want them to use them at all; you can live in vanilla all you like simply by ignoring them, how is it that when other people use them it ticks them off? It's almost as bad as all the arguments I hear in WoW about the new LFR (looking for raid) system and how it caters to casuals since it contains all the patch bosses on an easier setting, you know what, DON'T FUCKING USE LFR then; it in no way impacts how you want to play the game, yet overall it gives the majority of non-hardcore players joy in experiencing content that they usually don't experience in WoW. Same to me as with /spawn and /home, it's entirely optional for people to use, those who don't want to don't have to.
That and pretty much everything vonFiedler posted.
That and pretty much everything vonFiedler posted.
I'm not arguing against keeping the server fairly vanilla, if only because it's hard to accommodate for everyone the more that mods are considered. What I've always been against is the absurd lengths a few people want to go to keep true to that concept, and some of the more selfish and fallacious arguments in pursuit of that. I'm not unconvinced one or more of you guys would ban digging holes if you could, and that's not baseless; you guys have actually talked about such challenges in the past. Yes Smogcraft has been mostly vanilla for a year, but we've also had /home for the greater part of that year as well and it was very disruptive whenever we lost it due to new releases.
You already have a means to set your home.
It's called a bed.
It's called a bed.
