Metagame Misdreavus = dead, Fletchling = alive

[Ecuacion]

Misdreavus: Misdreavus is a really broken pokemon in LC. It is really fast, bulky (especially with eviolite) and it have a great moveset (Shadow ball as stab, Dazzling Gleam and Hidden Power Fighting for dark types, Will-O-Wisp for physical pokemon and Substitute/Nasty Plot for a set-up). Although it can be OHKO by Knock off users and it is weak to scarf users, his speed and moveset compensate its weakness allowing it to sweep entire teams with some prediction. BAN

Fletchling: Fletchling is a really fantastic pokemon for revenge kill and clean-up in the late-game. its ability gale wings makes it the most powerful priority in LC (With 110 base power acrobatics). It can't learn brave bird, so it is forced to have not an Item or use a berry + natural gift for losing the item and getting the 110 base power. But it is not enought, because Fletchling can OHKO any pokemon weak to flying type and a lot of other pokemon without eviolite. It also restricts the creativity, because if you have not a strong check/counter for it, it can clean up all your team with some damage in pokemon that can't be OHKO by acrobatics. BAN

 

[fitzy72]

Misdreavus: Misdreavus is a really broken pokemon in LC. It is really fast, bulky (especially with eviolite) and it have a great moveset (Shadow ball as stab, Dazzling Gleam and Hidden Power Fighting for dark types, Will-O-Wisp for physical pokemon and Substitute/Nasty Plot for a set-up). Although it can be OHKO by Knock off users and it is weak to scarf users, his speed and moveset compensate its weakness allowing it to sweep entire teams with some prediction. BAN

So I hate to ask because it's silly but since I literally can't remember ever seeing Misdreavus sweep an entire team in this LC metagame do you have any replays not against bottom of the ladder stuff to back up that statement?

 

[Yagura]

Fletchling: Fletchling is a really fantastic pokemon for revenge kill and clean-up in the late-game. its ability gale wings makes it the most powerful priority in LC (With 110 base power acrobatics). It can't learn brave bird, so it is forced to have not an Item or use a berry + natural gift for losing the item and getting the 110 base power. But it is not enought, because Fletchling can OHKO any pokemon weak to flying type and a lot of other pokemon without eviolite. It also restricts the creativity, because if you have not a strong check/counter for it, it can clean up all your team with some damage in pokemon that can't be OHKO by acrobatics. BAN

This doesn't make sense at all, using your logic any Pokémon is ban worthy as long as it has a STAB move that is super effective. Yes, I understand that 110 BP priority STAB is high but you can't say that it can OHKO any Pokémon weak to Flying because people don't only run Fighting, Bug and Grass Pokémon. Also, you don't have to run Pokémon that work only as a check or a counter for Fletchling as a lot of Pokémon that can wall Fletchling are viable and can do other roles other than checking Fletchling (you can see some listed by other people above, I don't want to repeat what has already been said.)

 

[blarajan]

I also wanted to point out that the majority of setting up / threatening that Fletchling does is just to Pokemon weak to Flying. Yes, that should be obvious, but let me elaborate. I have a team that I was doing pretty well with, and its Fletchling checks were Ferroseed (weak to Overheat), Elekid, and Sash Abra, and that was it. The other Pokemon were Larvesta, Drilbur, and Mienfoo. I never once had a problem with Fletchling since even though I had Flying weak Pokemon, Drilbur was not OHKOed at all and as such could stay in and threaten with Rock Slide. The former 3 all threatened / OHKOed Fletchling. Larvesta forced it to risk Burn and yeah Mienfoo was weak to it but that was okay.

A big reason that Fletchling has never really threatened me that badly is due to it not being really strong at all. Sure it is super useful against Fighting- and Grass-type Pokemon but if it can't OHKO you, it can't set up and will probably die in the process. Often, the majority of the checking I do to Fletchling is just tanking a hit and OHKOing it. It really only has a limited list of Pokemon it can OHKO. Everything else is essentially a check (unless in dying range, obviously).

What do you guys think? Does its inability to OHKO the majority of threats in the metagame make it easier to handle, or does the Fletchling user just have to wait until everything else is weakend / in range, and bring Fletchling out late game? And if so, does that make Fletchling broken, or just an effective cleaner / strong Pokemon?

Good work guys, I'm really hearing a lot of good points. My opinions on the suspects have been swayed multiple times this entire thread (primarily on Fletchling).

 

[Eren Yeagar]

Well, blarajan , you do make a good point. Fletchling has all that priority and fancy stuff, but it can't really hit hard to pokemon that are neutral/not very effective to flying types. Its 50 base physical attack is the reason it is holding back,much like senior talonflame over there in OU with a mediocre 81 base attack stat.The basic point of the fletchling line is to hit hard first with its STAB and powerful flying/fire type attacks. That's why fletchling is a big threat, it hits hard(or kind of hard) and fast , but it is held back from being banned since
1. it's very weak to stealth rock.(luckily not fire/flying yet)
2. it's frail.(no question)
3. doesn't have a free chance to recover health with roost since it's very frail.
3. 50 base physical attack(mediocre like I said before)
4. many walls(walled by almost all the rock/electric types in the metagame)
Well, fletchling does have a lot of common issues,it does have many good things about it. A powerful ability,access to strong moves,great cleaner,recovery,and amazing set up , but will these issues with fletchling restrain it from being banned from LC? In my opinion, yes.

 

[kingmidas]

I also wanted to point out that the majority of setting up / threatening that Fletchling does is just to Pokemon weak to Fighting. Yes, that should be obvious, but let me elaborate. I have a team that I was doing pretty well with, and its Fletchling checks were Ferroseed (weak to Overheat), Elekid, and Sash Abra, and that was it. The other Pokemon were Larvesta, Drilbur, and Mienfoo. I never once had a problem with Fletchling since even though I had Flying weak Pokemon, Drilbur was not OHKOed at all and as such could stay in and threaten with Rock Slide. The former 3 all threatened / OHKOed Fletchling. Larvesta forced it to risk Burn and yeah Mienfoo was weak to it but that was okay.

A big reason that Fletchling has never really threatened me that badly is due to it not being really strong at all. Sure it is super useful against Fighting- and Grass-type Pokemon but if it can't OHKO you, it can't set up and will probably die in the process. Often, the majority of the checking I do to Fletchling is just tanking a hit and OHKOing it. It really only has a limited list of Pokemon it can OHKO. Everything else is essentially a check (unless in dying range, obviously).

What do you guys think? Does its inability to OHKO the majority of threats in the metagame make it easier to handle, or does the Fletchling user just have to wait until everything else is weakend / in range, and bring Fletchling out late game? And if so, does that make Fletchling broken, or just an effective cleaner / strong Pokemon?

Good work guys, I'm really hearing a lot of good points. My opinions on the suspects have been swayed multiple times this entire thread (primarily on Fletchling).

yeah I 100% agree with this, fletchling is not nearly as strong as people give it credit for, and without +2 it ain't breaking through any resists, which it can only effectively do late game, when the resists are weakened. You just need 1-2 softchecks/resists to acro, and relatively bulky mons, the fact some of the bulkiest mons in the metagame (porygon, spritzee) can easily stay healthy until the end of the game hurts fletchling's cleaning ability. But really cleaning is what fletchling is best at, SD is nice if you have a trapper such as diglett, but fletchling enjoys having overheat/roost over the ability to barely break past some of it its checks.

 

[Slashari]

I also wanted to point out that the majority of setting up / threatening that Fletchling does is just to Pokemon weak to Fighting. Yes, that should be obvious, but let me elaborate. I have a team that I was doing pretty well with, and its Fletchling checks were Ferroseed (weak to Overheat), Elekid, and Sash Abra, and that was it. The other Pokemon were Larvesta, Drilbur, and Mienfoo. I never once had a problem with Fletchling since even though I had Flying weak Pokemon, Drilbur was not OHKOed at all and as such could stay in and threaten with Rock Slide. The former 3 all threatened / OHKOed Fletchling. Larvesta forced it to risk Burn and yeah Mienfoo was weak to it but that was okay.

A big reason that Fletchling has never really threatened me that badly is due to it not being really strong at all. Sure it is super useful against Fighting- and Grass-type Pokemon but if it can't OHKO you, it can't set up and will probably die in the process. Often, the majority of the checking I do to Fletchling is just tanking a hit and OHKOing it. It really only has a limited list of Pokemon it can OHKO. Everything else is essentially a check (unless in dying range, obviously).

What do you guys think? Does its inability to OHKO the majority of threats in the metagame make it easier to handle, or does the Fletchling user just have to wait until everything else is weakend / in range, and bring Fletchling out late game? And if so, does that make Fletchling broken, or just an effective cleaner / strong Pokemon?

Good work guys, I'm really hearing a lot of good points. My opinions on the suspects have been swayed multiple times this entire thread (primarily on Fletchling).

I think you've just put into words what a lot of us have been trying to say from the start. If Fletch can't OHKO something and it doesn't outspeed, it's usually forced out because of its frailty--it risks getting statused or KOd back by even strong neutral STAB attacks. This makes Fletch substantially easier to handle in my opinion, because it has a relatively hard time setting up. It absolutely had to wait until its many checks have been weakened if it wants to set up a sweep, and if hazards are up, this means Fletch usually isn't seen late game, as it shouldn't do much switching in/out. Fletch's frailty combined with its inability to OHKO) or even 2HKO things in some cases) most non-SE targets makes it not broken in my opinion.

It's a very effective late game cleaner for sure, but it is heavily reliant on its team being able to weaken stuff, as well as basically only using a Flying-type move to clean. Its coverage is for really specific stuff and it has pretty mediocre stats. Its redeeming quality is Gale Wings, but this makes it very dependent on Acrobatics.

 

[mad0ka]

I think you've just put into words what a lot of us have been trying to say from the start. If Fletch can't OHKO something and it doesn't outspeed, it's usually forced out because of its frailty--it risks getting statused or KOd back by even strong neutral STAB attacks. This makes Fletch substantially easier to handle in my opinion, because it has a relatively hard time setting up. It absolutely had to wait until its many checks have been weakened if it wants to set up a sweep, and if hazards are up, this means Fletch usually isn't seen late game, as it shouldn't do much switching in/out. Fletch's frailty combined with its inability to OHKO) or even 2HKO things in some cases) most non-SE targets makes it not broken in my opinion.

It's a very effective late game cleaner for sure, but it is heavily reliant on its team being able to weaken stuff, as well as basically only using a Flying-type move to clean. Its coverage is for really specific stuff and it has pretty mediocre stats. Its redeeming quality is Gale Wings, but this makes it very dependent on Acrobatics.

Too bad the stuff that Fletch can't quite OHKO that it's super effective against can't do much back. Bulky foo doesn't kill with drain punch. Scraggz doesn't kill with drain punch. Foongus does jack shit with sludge bomb and can't spore if something else is already asleep. Croagunk also doesn't do much with sludge bomb/drain punch. Fletchling easily tanks all of these hits at full hp. And if you say "oh fletch easily gets weakened throughout the match so it's not like it'll be at full hp", well, these soft checks all have to be at pretty much full HP, so don't mention them if you mention Fletchling being prone to getting worn down.

 

[fatty]

the thing is though that fletchling is not that heavily reliant on support, it doesn't even take that much. i know you said you don't have trouble with fletchling blara, and i definitely believe you as you're a great player, but take your team vs the rmt i posted. all i would really have to do is possibly weaken ferro a bit (which probably wouldnt be too hard with chinchou + fletch) and get a pursuit off on abra with pawniard, and i have a sweep opportunity with sd, especially if elekid is even weakened a small bit. i'm not saying this is exactly how it would play out, but from my experience it is so easy to plan out and actually execute such a strategy with a fletchling sweep in mind that it's almost unfair. imo, despite the destructive force gligar had with its sd set, it's even easier to wreak havoc with fletch because, as i've mentioned before, you could run a scarfer to beat glig as long as it didnt have a sub up.

 

[OP]

Too bad the stuff that Fletch can't quite OHKO that it's super effective against can't do much back. Bulky foo doesn't kill with drain punch. Scraggz doesn't kill with drain punch. Foongus does jack shit with sludge bomb and can't spore if something else is already asleep. Croagunk also doesn't do much with sludge bomb/drain punch. Fletchling easily tanks all of these hits at full hp. And if you say "oh fletch easily gets weakened throughout the match so it's not like it'll be at full hp", well, these soft checks all have to be at pretty much full HP, so don't mention them if you mention Fletchling being prone to getting worn down.

Mienfoo can opt to u-turn to something to handle Fletchling and heal up later with Drain Punch and Regenerator or use High Jump Kick or Stone Edge.
Foongus 2HKO's Fletchling, so even if it can't put it to sleep, Fletchling can't reliably switch in on Foongus.
Scraggy OHKO's with HJK over a third of the time, without even taking rocks into consideration. Scraggy also has access to Head Smash, sometimes used to break Vullaby.
Croagunk can even EV if you have a tough time with Fletch to outspeed and 2HKO with Sludge Bomb and Sucker Punch. I know it's a suboptimal set but if Fletchling was the metagame defining pokemon people make it out to be, wouldn't it be considered the optimal set?

Point is they most definitely can do something back and you can't just assume they're going to be using weaker moves. Because of Fletchling's low attack stat, even pokemon it checks can abuse it. Also, Fletchling is far more prone to being worn down because of it's weakness to SR and the pokemon you mentioned all resist it, have Regenerator, or both.

the thing is though that fletchling is not that heavily reliant on support, it doesn't even take that much. i know you said you don't have trouble with fletchling blara, and i definitely believe you as you're a great player, but take your team vs the rmt i posted. all i would really have to do is possibly weaken ferro a bit (which probably wouldnt be too hard with chinchou + fletch) and get a pursuit off on abra with pawniard, and i have a sweep opportunity with sd, especially if elekid is even weakened a small bit. i'm not saying this is exactly how it would play out, but from my experience it is so easy to plan out and actually execute such a strategy with a fletchling sweep in mind that it's almost unfair. imo, despite the destructive force gligar had with its sd set, it's even easier to wreak havoc with fletch because, as i've mentioned before, you could run a scarfer to beat glig as long as it didnt have a sub up.

I took that first section of the post to mean more that even though he doesn't run a single dedicated Fletchling check and two of his pokemon are weak to it, his team still works well. If Fletchling could really abuse things that are weak to it and sweep, this wouldn't be the case and he'd be stomped by Fletchling every time.

 

[Fiend]

Well, blarajan , you do make a good point. Fletchling has all that priority and fancy stuff, but it can't really hit hard to pokemon that are neutral/not very effective to flying types. Its 50 base physical attack is the reason it is holding back,much like senior talonflame over there in OU with a mediocre 81 base attack stat.The basic point of the fletchling line is to hit hard first with its STAB and powerful flying/fire type attacks. That's why fletchling is a big threat, it hits hard(or kind of hard) and fast , but it is held back from being banned since
1. it's very weak to stealth rock.(luckily not fire/flying yet)
2. it's frail.(no question)
3. doesn't have a free chance to recover health with roost since it's very frail.
3. 50 base physical attack(mediocre like I said before)
4. many walls(walled by all the rock/electric types in the metagame)
Well, fletchling does have a lot of common issues,it does have many good things about it. A powerful ability,access to strong moves,great cleaner,recovery,and amazing set up , but will these issues with fletchling restrain it from being banned from LC? In my opinion, yes.

Pretty sure, not 100% sure that, outside of SturdyJuice/Rest shenanigans, these walls have no recovery and are thus going to be prone to being worn down quicker than say Spritzee. That being said, while some can wall Fletch for a while, they probably cannot take more than 6 switchins factoring in Berry Juice and SR. And while yes, that is a lot, there is the chance of Fletch going for U-turn (more damage+momentum), or even SD if +2 Acro will kill. Another problem I have with that statement is "all." I'm hoping assuming you mean all relevant mon of those typing. Unless I missed one, that's 14 "walls." Onix and Dwebble don't wall Fletchling, mostly due how they are commonly played as suicide leads, and Dwebble is also neutral to Acro. Elekid does an amazing job of dying if it has 19 heath for LO recoil: 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Elekid: 9-11 (47.3 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Cranidos is 3HKOed, so I guess works. Personally I find Aron worthless outside of countering Fletch, so I'm also going to discount this one too. That leaves us with 9 solid answers and Cranidos. So since I also assume you think Fletch only runs Overheat as you gave no mention to Steel types, I'm also going to say Magnemite doesn't wall it as you claim it does. That leaves Archen, Tirtouga, Omanyte, Cranidos, Amaura, Binacle, Nosepass, Tyunt, and Chinchou. To deal with these left requires minimal support, and with the omnipresent Knock Off users, you must really try to keep these around without breaking their Sturdy Juice allowing them to wall Fletchling so.
Side comment, when was the last time you saw a Binacle, Tyrunt, or Nosepass in higher level of play? The only reason why I listed them as relevant is due to their viability ranking being greater than D.

 

[Aaron's Aron]

Pretty sure, not 100% sure that, outside of SturdyJuice/Rest shenanigans, these walls have no recovery and are thus going to be prone to being worn down quicker than say Spritzee. That being said, while some can wall Fletch for a while, they probably cannot take more than 6 switchins factoring in Berry Juice and SR. And while yes, that is a lot, there is the chance of Fletch going for U-turn (more damage+momentum), or even SD if +2 Acro will kill. Another problem I have with that statement is "all." I'm hoping assuming you mean all relevant mon of those typing. Unless I missed one, that's 14 "walls." Onix and Dwebble don't wall Fletchling, mostly due how they are commonly played as suicide leads, and Dwebble is also neutral to Acro. Elekid does an amazing job of dying if it has 19 heath for LO recoil: 196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Elekid: 9-11 (47.3 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Cranidos is 3HKOed, so I guess works. Personally I find Aron worthless outside of countering Fletch, so I'm also going to discount this one too. That leaves us with 9 solid answers and Cranidos. So since I also assume you think Fletch only runs Overheat as you gave no mention to Steel types, I'm also going to say Magnemite doesn't wall it as you claim it does. That leaves Archen, Tirtouga, Omanyte, Cranidos, Amaura, Binacle, Nosepass, Tyunt, and Chinchou. To deal with these left requires minimal support, and with the omnipresent Knock Off users, you must really try to keep these around without breaking their Sturdy Juice allowing them to wall Fletchling so.
Side comment, when was the last time you saw a Binacle, Tyrunt, or Nosepass in higher level of play? The only reason why I listed them as relevant is due to their viability ranking being greater than D.

Many of the walls have recovery. Spritzee has Wish, Porygon has Recover, and a few others have damage draining moves as well as Regenerator. I know you aren't considering them walls because they do not "resist" Fletchling's moves, but they take little from them and can hit hard back. I think that this makes them "walls" to Fletchling, because that is essentially what they are doing, just without the resists.

 

[fatty]

i never said you couldn't abuse things that are weak to it and not do well. i run a fighter on every team p much and i still think i do well. despite that, if you read my post i admitted that he probably didnt have problem because he is such a good player, and i can't really question who he's played up to this point to test his theory, but from my point of view based on experience using fletch, it would be a fairly easy match up to play against with fletch. also, your last statement is kind of false anyways. there has never been a suspect that has "completely stomped" a team each and every time it saw the playing field. neither tangela, yanma, glig, murkrow, or meditite meant an auto win or 6-0d teams by themselves. that would entirely take the skill of the game out of the question and there would literally be no point in having the suspect discussions that we had for each of the previous suspects, who were probably more broken then fletch anyways ill admit.

 

[OP]

i never said you couldn't abuse things that are weak to it and not do well. i run a fighter on every team p much and i still think i do well. despite that, if you read my post i admitted that he probably didnt have problem because he is such a good player, and i can't really question who he's played up to this point to test his theory, but from my point of view based on experience using fletch, it would be a fairly easy match up to play against with fletch. also, your last statement is kind of false anyways. there has never been a suspect that has "completely stomped" a team each and every time it saw the playing field. neither tangela, yanma, glig, murkrow, or meditite meant an auto win or 6-0d teams by themselves. that would entirely take the skill of the game out of the question and there would literally be no point in having the suspect discussions that we had for each of the previous suspects, who were probably more broken then fletch anyways ill admit.

I think you misunderstood my post for the most part. I was saying that him running two pokemon weak to Fletchling and no dedicated check proves that Fletchling can't abuse things that are weak to it near as well as many people are claiming. I don't think the argument of "He's a good player, that's why he doesn't have trouble with a pokemon" is a valid one so I'm just going to skip over that. My main point was pretty much that Fletchling can't stomp teams so I'm not sure how you got that I was saying it auto wins every time it gets on the field.

 

[Camden]

My main problem with fletch is the amount of pressure it puts on a player. You have to play a stupid 50/50 game of eating acrobatics or switching out to a counter only to have it u-turn out to diglett or some set up sweeper that gets a free turn. Now, you are wondering can't chinchou, mienfoo, etc do the same thing? No, the other mons don't have priority 110 bp attack.

That doesn't change the fact that it's a Flying-type attack coming off of a Base 50 poke with frail defenses. Putting on pressure doesn't inherently make a Poke broken, but just means it's a really good offensive pivot. Also, if it DOES U-turn out, that just means that its teammates are giving it support, which is what having a strong core/team is about.

 

[Max Carvalho]

My main problem with fletch is the amount of pressure it puts on a player. You have to play a stupid 50/50 game of eating acrobatics or switching out to a counter only to have it u-turn out to diglett or some set up sweeper that gets a free turn. Now, you are wondering can't chinchou, mienfoo, etc do the same thing? No, the other mons don't have priority 110 bp attack.

How is this different from any 50/50 that happens in any game, in any tier? This should be read for further reference. When doing predictions (because this 50/50 is purely decided by the players, not RNG) you must take into account the risk/reward process, that article shows how that happens. I doubt the "50/50" Fletchling causes are different from any situation that can possibly happen, such as the classic Mienfoo vs Pawniard with Missy in the back (should I use dpunch with the risk on giving a free turn to Misdreavus? Or should I use Knock Off with the risk on giving Pawniard a free turn?)

 

[chimp]

That doesn't change the fact that it's a Flying-type attack coming off of a Base 50 poke with frail defenses. Putting on pressure doesn't inherently make a Poke broken, but just means it's a really good offensive pivot. Also, if it DOES U-turn out, that just means that its teammates are giving it support, which is what having a strong core/team is about.

It may just be a flying-type move coming off a 50 base attack but it also has priority. So unless you have extremespeed or faster priority, Fletchling has a much easier time putting on pressure and forcing the 50/50 that macle was talking about, since its generally impossible to KO without taking damage first, unless you have the counter out but that usually mean you had to switch, which may be exactly what the Fletchling user wanted.

 

[Fiend]

Many of the walls have recovery. Spritzee has Wish, Porygon has Recover, and a few others have damage draining moves as well as Regenerator. I know you aren't considering them walls because they do not "resist" Fletchling's moves, but they take little from them and can hit hard back. I think that this makes them "walls" to Fletchling, because that is essentially what they are doing, just without the resists.

Aarom, I do in fact know that many traditional walls have recovery. However, Eren's point of Fletch has "many walls(walled by all the rock/electric types in the metagame)" is what I was responding too, where he claims that the like of Elekid are walls, albeit not directly. I also made a small comment about this, which is actually what you seem to be responding to. To quote myself, "Pretty sure, not 100% sure that, outside of SturdyJuice/Rest shenanigans, these walls have no recovery and are thus going to be prone to being worn down quicker than say Spritzee." Spritzee is a traditional wall, Amaura is not. Spritzee has recovery, Amaura does not. Spritzee doesn't have rock nor electric typing, Amaura is part Rock. (Spritzee can wall Fletchling though, you are correct.)

 

[Prof. Almeida]

After all of your talk, I'm seriously considering joining Little Cup. Always wanted to, but never took the time to properly look into it.

 

[JudgeMasterCid]

As a way to further solidify Spritzee's position as a very effective Fletchling check, I ran a few calculations. Now, while Spritzee had already been proven as a good choice, here are the results.

VS Spritzee

VS Spritzee
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-10 (25.9 - 37%) -- 82.5% chance to 3HK
196+ Atk Fletchling U-turn vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 2-2 (7.4 - 7.4%)
92 SpA Fletchling Overheat vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 5-7 (18.5 - 25.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
92 SpA Fletchling Hidden Power Grass vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 3-4 (11.1 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Steel Wing vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 8-10 (29.6 - 37%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

12 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 156 HP / 0- SpD Fletchling: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now, as to stray away from the more obvious checks to Fletchling who can also maintain a potential use outside of just checking our Suspect Little Bird, I decided to see how did it fare against a rather common and very solid core; Spritzee / Porygon / Trubbish. Numerical results are as follows.

VS Trubbish

VS Trubbish
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling U-turn vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
92 SpA Fletchling Overheat vs. 116 HP / 20 SpD Trubbish: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Steel Wing vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 6-8 (26 - 34.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO

36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Fletchling: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Fletchling: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It is worth mentioning that Berry Juice will allow Trubbish to Switch in, and still remain at full Hp taking an Acrobatics. This means that, to an extent, it can also accomplish the job of a Fletchling check, with Stealth Rock support in tow.

VS Porygon

VS Porygon
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 7-10 (26.9 - 38.4%) -- 84.5% chance to 3HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling U-turn vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 4-5 (15.3 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
92 SpA Fletchling Overheat vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 5-6 (19.2 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Steel Wing vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 4-5 (15.3 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO

0 SpA Porygon Tri Attack vs. 156 HP / 0- SpD Fletchling: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As we can see by the numbers, Fletchling isn't exactly all that threatening to Pokemon who do not even resist it's Flying Type STAB. As a matter of fact, even with Steel Wing, it cannot possibly break through Spritzee, whereas Porygon remains an effective check in the same vein that the aforementioned Fairy. It is also worth mentioning that even under the worst possible conditions, Trubbish also stands a solid fighting chance, even with a minimal investment in Defenses in favor of a faster spread, which is currently used as the Standard. By utilizing Berry Juice, Trubbish can safely Switch in an immediately threaten Fletchling. While it is only a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, not counting Accuracy issues, it at least serves to showcase how can a Pokemon that is not particularly Bulky or focused on a Defensive Set, to an extent, check Fletchling. All of thee Pokemon also serve multiple purposes, their main use actually being different from checking Fletchling. Thus, to a good extent, it is worth mentioning that Teams should not be warped or forced to pick among the list of 'obvious' Fletchling checks, as there are many Pokemon who can do the job nicely. This means that Fletchling can probably safely remain in the Meta without all teams being forced to run Chinchou, Archen, or a Steel Type.

 

[tcr]

I think Macle's point was more so that as long as Fletchling is alive it is just a full top to a lot of sweepers. It is basically free momentum, as now the opponent is FORCED to switch into their check. The difference between this and say, a Scarf Pokemon, is that Fletchling checks EVERYTHING to an extent, and not just things that super-effective.

 

[Aaron's Aron]

As a way to further solidify Spritzee's position as a very effective Fletchling check, I ran a few calculations. Now, while Spritzee had already been proven as a good choice, here are the results.

VS Spritzee

VS Spritzee
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-10 (25.9 - 37%) -- 82.5% chance to 3HK
196+ Atk Fletchling U-turn vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 2-2 (7.4 - 7.4%)
92 SpA Fletchling Overheat vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 5-7 (18.5 - 25.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
92 SpA Fletchling Hidden Power Grass vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 3-4 (11.1 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Steel Wing vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 8-10 (29.6 - 37%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO

12 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 156 HP / 0- SpD Fletchling: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now, as to stray away from the more obvious checks to Fletchling who can also maintain a potential use outside of just checking our Suspect Little Bird, I decided to see how did it fare against a rather common and very solid core; Spritzee / Porygon / Trubbish. Numerical results are as follows.

VS Trubbish

VS Trubbish
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 13-16 (56.5 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling U-turn vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
92 SpA Fletchling Overheat vs. 116 HP / 20 SpD Trubbish: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Steel Wing vs. 116 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 6-8 (26 - 34.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO

36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Fletchling: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 Atk Trubbish Gunk Shot vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Fletchling: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

VS Porygon

VS Porygon
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 7-10 (26.9 - 38.4%) -- 84.5% chance to 3HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling U-turn vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 4-5 (15.3 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
92 SpA Fletchling Overheat vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 5-6 (19.2 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
196+ Atk Fletchling Steel Wing vs. 236 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Porygon: 4-5 (15.3 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO

0 SpA Porygon Tri Attack vs. 156 HP / 0- SpD Fletchling: 15-18 (65.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As we can see by the numbers, Fletchling isn't exactly all that threatening to Pokemon who do not even resist it's Flying Type STAB. As a matter of fact, even with Steel Wing, it cannot possibly break through Spritzee, whereas Porygon remains an effective check in the same vein that the aforementioned Fairy. It is also worth mentioning that even under the worst possible conditions, Trubbish also stands a solid fighting chance, even with a minimal investment in Defenses in favor of a faster spread, which is currently used as the Standard. All of thee Pokemon also serve multiple purposes, their main use actually being different from checking Fletchling. Thus, to a good extent, it is worth mentioning that Teams should not be warped or forced to pick among the list of 'obvious' Fletchling checks, as there are many Pokemon who can do the job nicely. This means that Fletchling can safely remain in the Meta without all teams being forced to run Chinchou, Archen, or a Steel Type.

Unfortunately the Trubbish calculations show that Fletchling 2HKOs it. This goes against not banning it and for banning because Trubbish can't switch in an expect to take another hit. However, the rest I agree with though.

EDIT: He added in Berry juice now, so it is a 3HKO instead of a 2HKO.

 

[Caledrith]

TCR Thats actually something I noticed in Macle's BotW with Goddess Briyella, was that Fletchling and Mienfoo were able to continually U-Turn/Knock Off because Bri was forced to go into different checks. Its so threatening, that you can't leave something in on it, so you can just gain free momentum and damage.

 

[fitzy72]

TCR Thats actually something I noticed in Macle's BotW with Goddess Briyella, was that Fletchling and Mienfoo were able to continually U-Turn/Knock Off because Bri was forced to go into different checks. Its so threatening, that you can't leave something in on it, so you can just gain free momentum and damage.

This is just something that happens with everything with U-turn though. During my ladder matches I noticed nobody would ever Acro against Croagunk with Archen and Chinchou waiting so I started sludge bombing Fletchling and it worked every time.

 

[The Avalanches]

I think with the proper amount of intuition, you have a better chance of determining what Fletchling will do. I know they might seem like 50/50s, but if your opponent's win condition is Fletchling, then they might be more inclined to play with it conservatively and U-turn out rather than trying to grab a quick kill.

As my judgement and intuition playing this game have improved, I've been able to predict U-turn fairly consistently, if I keep my Mienfoo in on a U-turn, as reckless as it might sound, I'm able to take the wind out of their sail to an extent. I know I should not use good prediction as a point, but I do believe that as you grow more accustomed to handling the 50/50s this game springs on you, you can learn what the safest option is for your opponent and capitalize on that.