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Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
- Start date
Insomnia has the benefit of waking you up if you get put to sleep pre-mega, allowing you to switch it in to a hypnosis. To each their own. ^_^
That's definitely a useful MGar check, although I think absolite is more generally effective. You might also want to consider calm mind so that you can break Blissey.With Pidgeotite Gengar / Mega-Gengar being everywhere lately, I find the following set is a great check to it:
Meloetta @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
Meloetta's great special bulk (158 post mega), immunity to ghost, neutrality to fighting & insomnia post mega makes it the perfect check to Pidgeotite Gengar and a capable check to Mega-Gengar (barring destiny bond). It hits pretty hard with a base 168 spa. The only downsides with using this over anything else is the sub-par speed (base 100) and terrible defense. You could probably run a mixed set with relic song considering Mewtwonite-Y gives an attack boost too.
That being said, Meloetta is really underrated. It checks half the special attackers, and what it doesn't check it counters.
A bit unrelated, but i want to submit this wonderful team
I call it "you had a team and now it is scattered everywhere"
prove that it works and that it's fricking funny use it: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-446302275
Metaboom (Metagross) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
Bangdorus (Landorus-Therian) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Explosion
Lickiboom (Lickilicky) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
- Frustration
Kamikazelf (Azelf) @ Altarianite
Ability: Levitate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
- Explosion
Bangcie (Diancie) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Frustration
- Explosion
- Gyro Ball
Onigiri (Glalie) @ Glalitite
Ability: Inner Focus
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Explosion
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
Bangdorus (Landorus-Therian) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Explosion
Lickiboom (Lickilicky) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
- Frustration
Kamikazelf (Azelf) @ Altarianite
Ability: Levitate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
- Explosion
Bangcie (Diancie) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Frustration
- Explosion
- Gyro Ball
Onigiri (Glalie) @ Glalitite
Ability: Inner Focus
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Explosion
I call it "you had a team and now it is scattered everywhere"
prove that it works and that it's fricking funny use it: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-446302275
HOW COULD YOU?!
I would actually argue that Vanilluxe is a better user of Glalite though. It still learns Explosion, Ice Shard, and while it lacks EQ, it makes up for it with (mostly) better stats, Automitize, and the fact that it's ICE CREAM going boom instead of Glalie.
Unfortunately using Relic Song post-Mega doesn't work. Well, it does, except that when you change to Pirouette Forme you lose your Mega stats and ability until you switch out and back in again.With Pidgeotite Gengar / Mega-Gengar being everywhere lately, I find the following set is a great check to it:
Meloetta @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
Meloetta's great special bulk (158 post mega), immunity to ghost, neutrality to fighting & insomnia post mega makes it the perfect check to Pidgeotite Gengar and a capable check to Mega-Gengar (barring destiny bond). It hits pretty hard with a base 168 spa. The only downsides with using this over anything else is the sub-par speed (base 100) and terrible defense. You could probably run a mixed set with relic song considering Mewtwonite-Y gives an attack boost too.
https://gyazo.com/649bdd3708d1d09949302a27685e55ba
rip undefeated reqs streak but i was lazy so i just pounded out 2-3 matches at a time, bound to lose a couple
BAN Gengarite
BAN Baton Pass or w/e version of bp it is thats being suspected but that i hope is simply the move baton pass
p sure ive made my opinion on both of these abundantly clear in multiple previous posts so im just gonna say that mgar is overcentralizing and if u cant do>75% ur ded (psong, tect, sub, switch=rip), as well as the fact it can adapt its moveset to counter meta adaptations (adapt to it is one of the only counter arguments that isnt just straight up wrong, and the things ive seen suggested are all hit hard by other movesets such as wisphex), and as long as u lack 6 mgar counters, ur losing a mon to it. bp is simply easy-to-use garbage that shouldnt be in a meta that wants to call itself balanced
rip undefeated reqs streak but i was lazy so i just pounded out 2-3 matches at a time, bound to lose a couple
BAN Gengarite
BAN Baton Pass or w/e version of bp it is thats being suspected but that i hope is simply the move baton pass
p sure ive made my opinion on both of these abundantly clear in multiple previous posts so im just gonna say that mgar is overcentralizing and if u cant do>75% ur ded (psong, tect, sub, switch=rip), as well as the fact it can adapt its moveset to counter meta adaptations (adapt to it is one of the only counter arguments that isnt just straight up wrong, and the things ive seen suggested are all hit hard by other movesets such as wisphex), and as long as u lack 6 mgar counters, ur losing a mon to it. bp is simply easy-to-use garbage that shouldnt be in a meta that wants to call itself balanced
Why didn't i think of that
Bangilluxe (Vanilluxe) @ Glalitite
Ability: Ice Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
- Autotomize
- Frustration
Ability: Ice Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
- Autotomize
- Frustration
now my team is perfect
I tried something like that two weeks ago, and yeah, that's reallly fun.
I also used a Liepard with Copycat for a priority on Explosion.
Also, running Swords Dance on Landorus-T give it insane power.
+2 252 Atk (155 BS) Aerilate Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 342-403 (102.3 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk (155 BS) Aerilate Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def (136 BS / Latiasite) Heatran: 386-455 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk (155 BS) Aerilate Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (80 BS / Slowbronite) Blissey: 1003-1182 (140.4 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Boom boom boooom~
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- U-turn
Azelf @ Pinsirite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Return
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
Metagross @ Altarianite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Explosion
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
Lickilicky @ Blazikenite
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 148 HP / 132 Atk / 8 SpD /220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Explosion
- Return
- Ice Punch
Kangaskhan (F) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Return
Scizor @ Blue Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Roost
- Iron Head
EVERYTHING GET BOOOOOOOOMED OFFFFFFFFFFFF
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- U-turn
Azelf @ Pinsirite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Return
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
Metagross @ Altarianite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Explosion
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
Lickilicky @ Blazikenite
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 148 HP / 132 Atk / 8 SpD /220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Explosion
- Return
- Ice Punch
Kangaskhan (F) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Return
Scizor @ Blue Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Roost
- Iron Head
EVERYTHING GET BOOOOOOOOMED OFFFFFFFFFFFF
As a long-time player and big fan of experimentation in this meta, I'd like to bring up something to discuss in these last few days that isn't a silly kaboom team or the suspect.
So here's the question I'd like to pose to you all and discuss: What are your favorite Dark Horses/Underused 'mons in this meta? Currently we've got a bunch of stuff that has a lot of potential, but might get cast aside for more well known favorites.
For me, one of my favorites has to be Tyrannitarite Regirock.
Possessing a lovely bulk of 80/240/120 backed up by sand, and a not too shabby base 130 atk, Regirock makes for an ideal answer to many unboosted physical attackers, and an excellent counter to Entei/Arcanine, and can even handle zygarde post-mega. It's so bulky of the physical side, it takes Lucarionite Terrakion's Close Combat and LIVES with no defense investment:252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 292-348 (80.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
What do I use it for though? It's an awesome lead as a SR user, and a fantastic paralysis spreader, as it doesn't care at all about being paralyzed itself. My preferred set is this:
Regirock @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave
- Earthquake
Since Regi's natural bulk is so high, I felt that maxing out attack would allow it to actually do some damage to other teams, and it's worked pretty well over the time that MnM has existed. The general idea is to come in on something, Twave it, and then smack it with Edgequake. Paired with a Wish passer(I tended to use Togekiss thanks to the resistances it has), it serves as an extreme annoyance to offensive teams packing Espeeders and speedy attackers like Weavile/Terrakion(those who have switched either in on Regi thinking it would fall to CC or Low Kick have always regretted it, as either Terrak or Weavile ended up paralyzed or downed), thanks to its ability to cripple.
Now what else can you do with Regirock? Well, it can do a pretty decent offensive set, replacing SR and Twave with Drain Punch and a desired coverage move. As well as a pretty solid Resttalk set with Curse and Max Sp. Def, or use Drain Punch+Curse. However, I'd still recommend the first set as the most effective one, though you can use Max Defense if you want to be less offensive and more tanky.
Now for anyone else who wants to bring up their Dark Horse, feel free to do so.
So here's the question I'd like to pose to you all and discuss: What are your favorite Dark Horses/Underused 'mons in this meta? Currently we've got a bunch of stuff that has a lot of potential, but might get cast aside for more well known favorites.
For me, one of my favorites has to be Tyrannitarite Regirock.
Possessing a lovely bulk of 80/240/120 backed up by sand, and a not too shabby base 130 atk, Regirock makes for an ideal answer to many unboosted physical attackers, and an excellent counter to Entei/Arcanine, and can even handle zygarde post-mega. It's so bulky of the physical side, it takes Lucarionite Terrakion's Close Combat and LIVES with no defense investment:252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 292-348 (80.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
What do I use it for though? It's an awesome lead as a SR user, and a fantastic paralysis spreader, as it doesn't care at all about being paralyzed itself. My preferred set is this:
Regirock @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave
- Earthquake
Since Regi's natural bulk is so high, I felt that maxing out attack would allow it to actually do some damage to other teams, and it's worked pretty well over the time that MnM has existed. The general idea is to come in on something, Twave it, and then smack it with Edgequake. Paired with a Wish passer(I tended to use Togekiss thanks to the resistances it has), it serves as an extreme annoyance to offensive teams packing Espeeders and speedy attackers like Weavile/Terrakion(those who have switched either in on Regi thinking it would fall to CC or Low Kick have always regretted it, as either Terrak or Weavile ended up paralyzed or downed), thanks to its ability to cripple.
Now what else can you do with Regirock? Well, it can do a pretty decent offensive set, replacing SR and Twave with Drain Punch and a desired coverage move. As well as a pretty solid Resttalk set with Curse and Max Sp. Def, or use Drain Punch+Curse. However, I'd still recommend the first set as the most effective one, though you can use Max Defense if you want to be less offensive and more tanky.
Now for anyone else who wants to bring up their Dark Horse, feel free to do so.
I got a couple of Dark Horses for y'all.
The first of the two is Sablenite Starmie.
Starmie @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic/Ice Beam/Psychic
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Sablenite Starmie is severely underrepped due to its B- viability rank and stones on the ranking being Pidgeotite and Blue Orb. While those two allow Starmie to be a quick and very threatening offensive sweeper, Sablenite allows it to take a more defensive role. After Sablenite boosts Starmie gets very strong defensive stats of 135 for both defense and special defense, thus allowing it to be a very bulky special or physical wall. Magic Bounce gives it a counter measure to status beyond mold breaker users and can keep hazards off the field without requiring a rapid spin. Natural Cure can be used pre mega if you want to get rid of status but most of the time you will want to get the mega off as quickly as possible in order to get the needed bulk to take hits. Scald is used for chip damage, burn chance, and as a way to thaw if you randomly get frozen. The second slot can be used for many different things depending on what you want to do with it. Toxic puts your opponent on a timer but makes them unable to be burned and if used carelessly against a Magic Bounce user you will poison yourself. Ice beam hits Zygarde for good damage and for when you don't want to have to fish for burns with scald but Psychic will do more damage against your opponent most of the time. Recover is necessary for longevity and gives Starmie a niche over mons like Giratina-o as a Primaldon check due to having recovery while Giratina does not have any outside of rest. Rapid Spin allows you to get rid of hazards on your side of the field while still keeping the hazards that you put up on your opponent's side which gives Starmie a niche over Defog users but your spin will be blocked by ghost types like Gengar.
Just be careful with how you use Starmie, since it doesn't take hits nearly as well pre-mega, it can be 2hkod by attacks it could normally switch in on if mega evolved if you switch it in without mega evolving. Also be careful around Primal Groudon, although it will be the main thing you are checking with Starmie, it can be running a special set with Thunder or Solar Beam that will 2hko you if you aren't specially defensive.
The other Dark Horse mon that I have experimented with and found success with is Deoxys-Attack.
Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam/Signal Beam/Dark Pulse
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
Deoxys-Attack is criminally underrated to the point of not even being on the viability rankings. While most people would think Deoxys-A would be outclassed by mons like Hoopa-Unbound or Gengar, Deoxys-A actually has a very strong niche in being a very fast, strong but frail attacker that chunks holes in the opposing team. Here are some calcs to give you an idea of Deoxys-A's attack power.
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 294-347 (72.7 - 85.8%)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Blissey: 369-437 (51.6 - 61.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blue Orb Skarmory: 207-243 (61.9 - 72.7%)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latiasite Heatran: 221-260 (57.2 - 67.3%)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blue Orb Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Hippowdon: 320-378 (76.1 - 90%)
The whole point of Deoxys-Attack is that it severely weakens the big walls of the meta thus allowing its teammates to run freely without counters. While Deoxys-A didn't kill all of those walls in one shot, it did over 50% each time, which is far more than some of the non setup attackers can say bar Victini. On certain mons like Blissey, Skarmory and Hippowdon, they may be able to recover off the hit, but it gives you a free turn to switch while they recover off the damage which allows you to keep up the pressure and possibly keep the mon from completely recovering at all. Against other offensive mons Deoxys-A outspeeds with a very handy 150 base speed and clean kills them most of the time unless they pack Speed Boost or priority. Even then, Deoxys-A might outspeed them if the mon has a low enough base speed or if they are weak enough that they die to Extreme Speed. Deoxys-Attack may not sweep the opposing team, but it is strong enough to weaken or kill enough opposing walls that a teammate may sweep. Deoxys-Attack is good enough at its job that it should at least be ranked on the viability rankings.
The first of the two is Sablenite Starmie.
Starmie @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic/Ice Beam/Psychic
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Sablenite Starmie is severely underrepped due to its B- viability rank and stones on the ranking being Pidgeotite and Blue Orb. While those two allow Starmie to be a quick and very threatening offensive sweeper, Sablenite allows it to take a more defensive role. After Sablenite boosts Starmie gets very strong defensive stats of 135 for both defense and special defense, thus allowing it to be a very bulky special or physical wall. Magic Bounce gives it a counter measure to status beyond mold breaker users and can keep hazards off the field without requiring a rapid spin. Natural Cure can be used pre mega if you want to get rid of status but most of the time you will want to get the mega off as quickly as possible in order to get the needed bulk to take hits. Scald is used for chip damage, burn chance, and as a way to thaw if you randomly get frozen. The second slot can be used for many different things depending on what you want to do with it. Toxic puts your opponent on a timer but makes them unable to be burned and if used carelessly against a Magic Bounce user you will poison yourself. Ice beam hits Zygarde for good damage and for when you don't want to have to fish for burns with scald but Psychic will do more damage against your opponent most of the time. Recover is necessary for longevity and gives Starmie a niche over mons like Giratina-o as a Primaldon check due to having recovery while Giratina does not have any outside of rest. Rapid Spin allows you to get rid of hazards on your side of the field while still keeping the hazards that you put up on your opponent's side which gives Starmie a niche over Defog users but your spin will be blocked by ghost types like Gengar.
Just be careful with how you use Starmie, since it doesn't take hits nearly as well pre-mega, it can be 2hkod by attacks it could normally switch in on if mega evolved if you switch it in without mega evolving. Also be careful around Primal Groudon, although it will be the main thing you are checking with Starmie, it can be running a special set with Thunder or Solar Beam that will 2hko you if you aren't specially defensive.
The other Dark Horse mon that I have experimented with and found success with is Deoxys-Attack.
Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam/Signal Beam/Dark Pulse
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
Deoxys-Attack is criminally underrated to the point of not even being on the viability rankings. While most people would think Deoxys-A would be outclassed by mons like Hoopa-Unbound or Gengar, Deoxys-A actually has a very strong niche in being a very fast, strong but frail attacker that chunks holes in the opposing team. Here are some calcs to give you an idea of Deoxys-A's attack power.
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 294-347 (72.7 - 85.8%)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Blissey: 369-437 (51.6 - 61.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blue Orb Skarmory: 207-243 (61.9 - 72.7%)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Latiasite Heatran: 221-260 (57.2 - 67.3%)
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blue Orb Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sablenite Hippowdon: 320-378 (76.1 - 90%)
The whole point of Deoxys-Attack is that it severely weakens the big walls of the meta thus allowing its teammates to run freely without counters. While Deoxys-A didn't kill all of those walls in one shot, it did over 50% each time, which is far more than some of the non setup attackers can say bar Victini. On certain mons like Blissey, Skarmory and Hippowdon, they may be able to recover off the hit, but it gives you a free turn to switch while they recover off the damage which allows you to keep up the pressure and possibly keep the mon from completely recovering at all. Against other offensive mons Deoxys-A outspeeds with a very handy 150 base speed and clean kills them most of the time unless they pack Speed Boost or priority. Even then, Deoxys-A might outspeed them if the mon has a low enough base speed or if they are weak enough that they die to Extreme Speed. Deoxys-Attack may not sweep the opposing team, but it is strong enough to weaken or kill enough opposing walls that a teammate may sweep. Deoxys-Attack is good enough at its job that it should at least be ranked on the viability rankings.
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Dark Horses? This question was MADE for me.
I've used many mons in this particular meta (probably more than 99% of the playerbase), and while some of them have surprised me a ton, two stand out as candidates in particular. (Sadly, one is not Vespiquen, due to Shadow Tag Gengar being a thing... and fire types)
Empoleon.
Empoleon @ Sceptilite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
This is a sample of what I've been using in the ladder. Water/Steel is an amazing type, especially in this meta, and negating the weakness that is most likely to be preyed upon and turning that into a power boost is amazing. Negating all of your original weaknesses with yet another great type is another really big boon. I cannot tell you how many times an Electric type has attempted to Volt Switch or Thunderbolt on this, and gets nearly KOed in return. Even Sablenite Zapdos.... ESPECIALLY Sablenite Zapdos. Being a Defogger is also great. The only letdown is a lack of recovery. Earthquake is a consideration to take on Red Orb Raikou and Primal Groudon better, but I prefer smacking the bulky waters around a bit more... Oh, did I mention that it can also carry Latiasite, and negate the other common weakness?
Nontherless, it cannot take extremely heavy hits, along with SE Extremespeeds.
The other.... is Crobat.
Crobat @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
Again, I talked about this before. How could I not do so? Anyways, stall teams HATE this. Maybe even more than they can hate Mega Gengar. It might not trap things like it does, but everything barring Steel and Poison types can become poisoned, and those can't even set up guaranteed.... thanks to Taunt. And it heals.... and cannot be poisoned, itself. It can also take some pretty punishing blows, even though you might not think so at first. The main flaws of Deoxys-S is that its HP stat is middling... not so with Crobat, sporting a base 80. The point of Crobat is to annoy your opponent enough to switch in their important mons on this, and simply switch out (or use this, if they can't hit harder than Gengar), watching them eventually fall to the horrors of Poison. You can also run U-turn to make some momentum out of the deal, but then this doesn't 1v1 Gengar in all of its variations...
I've used many mons in this particular meta (probably more than 99% of the playerbase), and while some of them have surprised me a ton, two stand out as candidates in particular. (Sadly, one is not Vespiquen, due to Shadow Tag Gengar being a thing... and fire types)
Empoleon.
Empoleon @ Sceptilite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Defog
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
This is a sample of what I've been using in the ladder. Water/Steel is an amazing type, especially in this meta, and negating the weakness that is most likely to be preyed upon and turning that into a power boost is amazing. Negating all of your original weaknesses with yet another great type is another really big boon. I cannot tell you how many times an Electric type has attempted to Volt Switch or Thunderbolt on this, and gets nearly KOed in return. Even Sablenite Zapdos.... ESPECIALLY Sablenite Zapdos. Being a Defogger is also great. The only letdown is a lack of recovery. Earthquake is a consideration to take on Red Orb Raikou and Primal Groudon better, but I prefer smacking the bulky waters around a bit more... Oh, did I mention that it can also carry Latiasite, and negate the other common weakness?
Nontherless, it cannot take extremely heavy hits, along with SE Extremespeeds.
The other.... is Crobat.
Crobat @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
Again, I talked about this before. How could I not do so? Anyways, stall teams HATE this. Maybe even more than they can hate Mega Gengar. It might not trap things like it does, but everything barring Steel and Poison types can become poisoned, and those can't even set up guaranteed.... thanks to Taunt. And it heals.... and cannot be poisoned, itself. It can also take some pretty punishing blows, even though you might not think so at first. The main flaws of Deoxys-S is that its HP stat is middling... not so with Crobat, sporting a base 80. The point of Crobat is to annoy your opponent enough to switch in their important mons on this, and simply switch out (or use this, if they can't hit harder than Gengar), watching them eventually fall to the horrors of Poison. You can also run U-turn to make some momentum out of the deal, but then this doesn't 1v1 Gengar in all of its variations...
Sceptilite adds a secondary Dragon typing, so you don't get that sweet sweet Water/Steel combo.
bite on crobat would do more than dark pulse and have a higher flinch chance, but maybe your running it because slowbronite exists?
You do. But you also gain a typing that is almost as good, and a free immunity. Trying to guess between Latiasite and Sceptilite might just lose your opponent a mon.
Dark Pulse has a higher base power. It also does a non-zero amount of damage to Skarmory, which is fairly important...
Sp. Def Skarmory is a thing, and bite only does SLIGHTLY less damage to a Defensive skarm than it does Sp. Def Skarm(ie a 5-10% difference)
0 Atk Crobat Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 43-52 (12.8 - 15.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Crobat Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 70-84 (20.9 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
Either way, you're doing barely any damage to it, so you might as well get the higher flinch chance and more consistent damage, or you can just use Aerodactyl, who has better stats and movepool for stallbreaking.
You know what? Bite probably is better for Crobat. And it sounds so strange to be saying that of a level-up move that the Zubat line drops as soon as it gets some decent TM moves. And you don't see it in the recommended moves section.
...I can't shake the feeling that there are more cases like this.
...I can't shake the feeling that there are more cases like this.
I think crobat would be better, it has more bulk and a much better typing. rock/dark is not the greatest, while poison/dark has one weakness. and its not like crobat is missing out on anything super big.
A lot of people use his mega stone, forgetting his potential (solid defensive bulk, high attack, primary steel typing)
Swaggron (Aggron) @ Altarianite
Ability: Sturdy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Autotomize
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
This beast with 438 Attack wrecks butts with his Pixilate Frustration and Iron Head.
Earthquake is a good coverage.
It struggles against Slowbronite/Sablenite Skarmory, but if the steel bird isn't with these mega stones (but, for example is Blue Orb) or is SpD, he can widdle it down slowly and then threaten it with Earthquake on roost (does above 50% on physdef blue orb skarm)
Steel/Fairy is an excellent defensive typing, and resists all the -ate Extremespeeds.
And you can abuse eventually of his Sturdy/Rock Type for setting up an Autotomize before Mega Evolving.
But the best thing is luring Fighting Moves (that become neutral after Mega Evolving) on it for setting up.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-442300094
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-441705834 (Blue Orb Skarm)
BEST DARK HEROES
Gotta go klang (Klinklang) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Substitute
- Frustration
- Gear Grind
The Witch (Mismagius) @ Red Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Mystical Fire
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
Gotta go klang (Klinklang) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Substitute
- Frustration
- Gear Grind
The Witch (Mismagius) @ Red Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Mystical Fire
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
On the subject of Dark Horses, I'd like to bring up Dusknoir. I've actually had some semblance of success with it holding Sablenite, but now I'm trying to experiment with Lopunnite thanks to Ghost/Fighting having unresisted type coverage, with Scrappy to give it a way to hit other Ghosts without Shadow Sneak. Would be much better if it got an actual setup move over PuP, but whatever. It would also be better if it got a better STAB move to abuse like Shadow Claw (which is still pretty weak), because its only physical STAB other than Shadow Sneak is Shadow Punch which is pretty bad.
Dusknoir @ Lopunnite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Power-Up Punch
- Return
- Protect
Dusknoir @ Lopunnite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Power-Up Punch
- Return
- Protect
Rhyperior @ Heracronite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 212 HP / 172 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Stats post-mega: 200 ATK / 170 DEF / 65 SPDEF / 30 SPE
Do you hate fat teams (specifically Skarmory & Blissey) & -ate users? Well, this is perfect for breaking those apart. The ev's accomplish the following things:
1 Reaching a 404 HP stat so that seismic toss doesn't break your substitute.
2 Outspeeding no-speed base 55's pre-mega (ie; Blissey), so that you can sub on a status move
With its great overall bulk, high powered stabs, great base attack stat (200), great defensive stats (excepting spdef), and edge-quake coverage - it can take on a lot of things. For instance, look at the following calcs:
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 180-215 (53.8 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Blue orb Skarmory)
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 305-365 (42.7 - 51.1%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO (Sablenite Blissey)
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 225-270 (69.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (v Pinsirite Coba)
252+ Atk burned Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 300-360 (80.8 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (v Altarianite Entei)
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 305-365 (42.7 - 51.1%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO (Sablenite Blissey)
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 225-270 (69.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (v Pinsirite Coba)
252+ Atk burned Rhyperior Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 300-360 (80.8 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (v Altarianite Entei)
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Cobalion Frustration vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 129-152 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 16.3% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 310-366 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 144-169 (33.2 - 39%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 83-98 (19.1 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 67-80 (15.4 - 18.4%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 141-166 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 178-211 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 310-366 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 144-169 (33.2 - 39%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 83-98 (19.1 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 67-80 (15.4 - 18.4%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 141-166 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Entei Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 178-211 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I thought it was kind of dark-horseish. So yeah. :o
Gaining Tyranitar's type is pretty bad as is, and even worse when you become effected by Pixiespeed, and lack the Sandstrom that makes T-tar so good... In fact, Tyranitar simply loves making its own type Aerodactyl's. (You could use Ampharosite, but then you get crazy anti-synergy with Aero.)
Speaking of that... Tyranitarite Aerodactyl ought to be good (though it lacks a good Flying STAB, which might be a dealbreaker). I'll try it, and send the results back to all of you.
Gengarite:
Do not ban: 10
Ban: 4
Baton Pass:
Do not ban 1
Ban: 12
Why do you guys vote Abstain smh, just don't write your decision ;_;
Gengarite stays, Baton pass is now banned.
Do not ban: 10
Ban: 4
Baton Pass:
Do not ban 1
Ban: 12
Why do you guys vote Abstain smh, just don't write your decision ;_;
Gengarite stays, Baton pass is now banned.