MLB thread

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Bonds is HOF worthy, steroids or no.

Clemens is as well but he won't get in based on the name-dragging-through-mud process he brought upon himself.

 

[drcossack]

Ryan Madson to Cincinnati Reds for 1 year, 8.5 mil is what I'm hearing on Twitter. Still waiting for a link.

Thank you Ruben Amaro Jr. You are a fucking dumbass who overpaid for Jonathan Papelshit. Your pitching-obsessed ass really needs to be fired.

(on the bright side, we released John Bowker. Worst hitter ever. Threw a fucking party when I heard that news earlier.)

 

[aamto]

I'm really mad Jeff Bagwell didn't get in, he was still crushing even in the steroid era, is the only first basemen with 400 HRs and 200 steals, oh and he was never suspected of juicing. Ever. He's going to get in very soon but he should have been elected. Larkin was a great candidate though, glad to see him get his due.

Next year should be fun with: Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio, and Curt Schilling (among the people already on the ballot). Out of those I'd vote for the last three, fuck Bonds, Sosa, and Clemens. They tainted the game forever by juicing, no matter if "everyone" was doing it. "Babe Ruth did it with hot dogs and beer".

so, just to be clear, you are in favor of white-washing baseball history and pretending as if a whole decade of the sport never happened? you wish to ignore the fact that steroids/PED effects are inconclusive at best? the fact that the "steroid" era probably saved baseball after the strike doesn't mean anything to you?

preach all you want about "taint" or what have you, but pretending ~10 years of baseball never happened is a laughable prospect. these are the sport's absolute best players and deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. the way i see it, 50 years from now, when fans look back at the records and see 762 career home runs/70 in a single season, they'll just think about how the game was played differently back then. the same way we do when we see Cy Young's 511 win total or Rickey Henderson's absurd stolen base numbers.

 

[tennisace]

so, just to be clear, you are in favor of white-washing baseball history and pretending as if a whole decade of the sport never happened? because that's the kind of Hall you would get without the (arguable) greatest hitter of all time and one of the best pitchers of all time.

Yes, I am completely in favor of either that or placing the admitted steroids users in a separate wing. They do not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame with great baseball players who did it without chemical help. Pete Rose was one of the best ballplayers of all time and he isn't in the Hall of Fame because he cheated. Why should this be any different?

 

[aamto]

Yes, I am completely in favor of either that or placing the admitted steroids users in a separate wing. They do not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame with great baseball players who did it without chemical help. Pete Rose was one of the best ballplayers of all time and he isn't in the Hall of Fame because he cheated. Why should this be any different?

because what Rose did and what Bonds did are completely different? Rose BET on baseball games that he had a direct effect on (as a manager. and he may have actually bet against his own team). there is such a massive conflict of interest there; it's the same as the Black Sox scandal.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, et al took substances that WERE NOT banned at the time by MLB (there was no rule) and were enabled by team officials, fans, writers, and MLB itself to do so. but now you wish to apply retroactive justice. cool.

 

[orbpom123]

You can't cover up an entire decade of players juicing up. If a few players were you can then bar them from the hall of fame, but you can not say steroid using players can not make it, as pretty much everyone who played in that era was suspected. Maybe put an * next to the players in the record books stating it was ever so common at the time, and those players were using PED's when they did not test nor ban them. And how did Rose cheat? He bet games against his own team, that is not comparable with using drugs to gain an advantage.

 

[aamto]

You can't cover up an entire decade of players juicing up. If a few players were you can then bar them from the hall of fame, but you can not say steroid using players can not make it, as pretty much everyone who played in that era was suspected. Maybe put an * next to the players in the record books stating it was ever so common at the time, and those players were using PED's when they did not test nor ban them. And how did Rose cheat? He bet games against his own team, that is not comparable with using drugs to gain an advantage.

if you're saying what Rose did is minor violation compared to what Bonds et al did, then lol. the players cheated only themselves when they used steroids for perceived advantages. Rose compromised the integrity of baseball by actively taking part as a manager to control games and improve his odds of winning bets. plus, you know, it was against the rules, unlike steroids/PEDs (at the time).

in all of this, it is often forgotten that other illegal drugs/substances, such as amphetamines, were used by players in the past such as Hank Aaron and could be considered PEDs. should he be booted from the Hall too (the correct answer is no), as amphetamines are a substance tested for and banned by MLB.

we cannot apply rules of today's time to another era. we move along with our lives and acknowledge that it happened and it was an institutional problem (ie, started with MLB officials), not rogue players juicing.

 

[moi]

Outside of the legality issue within the sport itself, there are so many good articles that can inform the ignorant to the actual "power" of steroids. Or, more properly put, the lack thereof.

This is a quote from "way back" when Ryan Braun was caught using steroids, and I feel as if I may have already posted it in the thread.

If Ryan Braun did in fact take some kind of banned substance (I really hesitate to use the words ‘performance-enhancing’ as many of these substances have been proven to do nothing in that regard) he would be merely one of many, and one of the few to get caught. If he did take some sort of banned substance, the game, and Braun himself, will move on and ostensibly nothing will change.

People will point to his incredible numbers; his .312/.371/.563 career slash line, his .402 career wOBA, his 25.2 career fWAR, and his 161 home runs, and talk of them as if they mean nothing; as if every last ounce of talent in his being is caused by some synthetic elixir of the Gods that changes ordinary people into Babe Ruth.

The bolded part is really where my frustration with most of what the media says, and what a lot of posters regurgitate, lies. Come on, people. Read more about it, gain some knowledge. Realise that steroids don't do anything to help these players. They have the talents and skills, roids or not.

 

[ButteredToast]

So, Bud Selig got his extension announced today, will be head of baseball through at least 2014. I'm kind of sick of this guy, he's been in for like 20 years.

Can anyone say Napoleon?

He may go for the title "Commissioner for Life" and the title may be passed down to his oldest living child. Stay tuned in case he sends all the players and coaches on a crusade against basketball.

 

[ivar]

So, Bud Selig got his extension announced today, will be head of baseball through at least 2014. I'm kind of sick of this guy, he's been in for like 20 years.

Can anyone say Napoleon?

He may go for the title "Commissioner for Life" and the title may be passed down to his oldest living child. Stay tuned in case he sends all the players and coaches on a crusade against basketball.

next thing you know we're gonna be calling him Dear Leader

 

[Mr.E]

Outside of the legality issue within the sport itself, there are so many good articles that can inform the ignorant to the actual "power" of steroids. Or, more properly put, the lack thereof.

...Realise that steroids don't do anything to help these players. They have the talents and skills, roids or not.

Obviously they do something or nobody would bother taking them. More muscle means more power and whatnot. You're just understating what the majority overstates.

 

[aamto]

Obviously they do something or nobody would bother taking them. More muscle means more power and whatnot. You're just understating what the majority overstates.

they do something (probably) but they are not some magical god-serum that can turn you or me into a great MLB hitter. to think as such and thus throw out the accomplishments of Bonds, ARod, Sosa, McGwire, etc is ridiculous.

 

[orbpom123]

OMG! Reports confirmed Yankees and mariners swap their futures in the form of Jesus Montero and michael pineda. Also the mariners give up prospect Jose Campos and Yankees rhp hector noesi. I am absolutely shocked because for 2 years Montero was deemed that of a legend, and was convinced we could buy the Mlb for him. I'm glad we get a solid #2 starter who has a live arm, but jesus was one of the best prospects in the majors and as I see a future batting champion/mvp. Your thoughts

 

[orbpom123]

Damn, and we get veteran Pitcher Kuroda from dodgers. Buttered better watch out, you even had a chance last year because our pitching sucked, but now we have a #2 and 3 :)

 

[J-man]

Ladies and gentlesmogonites.... Your 2012 World Series Champions- the New York Yankees... *facepalm* That rotation is absurdly good now. I'm quite embarrassed that our gm is going after Yoenis "Struck out easily in my debut" Cespedes...

 

[orbpom123]

Ladies and gentlesmogonites.... Your 2012 World Series Champions- the New York Yankees... *facepalm* That rotation is absurdly good now. I'm quite embarrassed that our gm is going after Yoenis "Struck out easily in my debut" Cespedes...

Is he even proven as a power hitter? He struck out 3 times, and isnt jackson already your CF for 120+ games? Agreed, my yanks are going all the way this year along with IMO marlins.

 

[J-man]

Is he even proven as a power hitter? He struck out 3 times, and isnt jackson already your CF for 120+ games? Agreed, my yanks are going all the way this year along with IMO marlins.

Cespedes would go LF. With the emergence of his suckitude, the Yanks doing this in the span of less than 24 hours, coupled with Mike Illitch's very strong desire for a World Series Title, I'd hope Dombrowski does something now (which doesn't include signing the cuban)

 

[orbpom123]

Cespedes would go LF. With the emergence of his suckitude, the Yanks doing this in the span of less than 24 hours, coupled with Mike Illitch's very strong desire for a World Series Title, I'd hope Dombrowski does something now (which doesn't include signing the cuban)

I would of hoped they sign a big 3B guy like aramis ramirez, but of course he went someone else. Brandon Inge seems to me like a back up, not someone who can hit 20+ and 80 Rbi's.

 

[moi]

Obviously they do something or nobody would bother taking them. More muscle means more power and whatnot. You're just understating what the majority overstates.

Sorry man, this is the problem. "means more power and whatnot"... There is nothing past more power. Obviously, I agree that more muscle mass means more power, but baseball is probably the most technically driven game out of all major sports. Having natural talent and a good feel for things is great, but you have to develop the skill set to go along with it. It's why you see so many great athletes who have all the tools never develop into great players, they don't have the skills.

Think of when you swing. What would you consider things that would affect homerun rate? Eye of the hitter, that has to be one. Someone capable of making good pitch recognition will have a better chance of hitting the ball farther, as they'll swing at someone they're more capable of driving. Hey! That's not controlled by muscle mass. Swing trajectory, finding the balance between lift and drive in the angle. Wait a minute, that's not controlled by power either! See what I mean? It's not like power doesn't have any affect on home run ratio, because obviously, it does, but it's a whole mess of things combined.

But let's say that it increases the HR/FB% of any given player. We'll go use recently caught Ryan Braun! His numbers will show great jumps, right? Eh.., not so much. His 18.8% is only the second highest of his career, and only 0.9% of his career average... So let's take his 176 flyballs from the year, and multiply that by his career average HR/FB%. 31.5 homeruns instead of 33, quite the difference, right?

Essentially, there are VERY few cases where you can visibly see the positive effect of performance enhancers. In these cases, the users already possessed the required skill set to do great things, but their achievements are enhanced ever so slightly further.

If anything, steroids are more advantageous to someone looking to come back from an injury instead of getting ahead of the competition, and all this is without considering the negative effects they WILL have on your body.

 

[J-man]

I would of hoped they sign a big 3B guy like aramis ramirez, but of course he went someone else. Brandon Inge seems to me like a back up, not someone who can hit 20+ and 80 Rbi's.

Preaching to the Choir. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that aside from a home run here or there (though taking Ogando deep in game 4 was awesome), Brandon Inge can't be your starting 3rd baseman. Nobody is complaining about Dombrowski not getting Aram, because nobody in the Tiger brass wanted to sign an aging vet for $14+ million for 3+ years. That's very understandable. The problem is the brass is also incredibly stubborn when it comes to our heralded third baseman of the future, "Mr. Evan Longoria Lite", Nick Castellanos. Instead of moving him for a proven product like David Wright or Chase Headly (who'd be head over heals better than Castellanos, who's not even expected to play 3B in the majors), and turn what is already a potent offense into "Yankee Deadly" offense.

Dombrowski is such a strange GM. If he felt like it on any given day, he could commit larceny of the highest order and walk off with your best player for free. What is mind boggling is that when there is a to-do list and you have the assets and the Win Now motive, he doesn't do it. We needed a third baseman, a leadoff hitter, more depth to our pitching staff, and a backup catcher. He sort of added depth when he fixed the bullpen by signing Dotel and got our backup catcher. Those should be bottom of the priority list.

What the Tigers should have done:

1. Non Tender Delmon Young- Yeah yeah, he did amazing things in the playoffs. YOU DON'T SIGN PLAYERS WHO STRIKE OUT A TON AND HAVE SUB .300 OBPs to $6 MILLION CONTRACTS. We have our #3 Hitter, his name is Brennan Boesch, and he's a beast with the bat (especially in front of Cabrera. see last year before he blew his thumb out). Young was supposed to plug Boesch's hole, not add to the roster. With the money we are going to tie up with Young we could have...

2. Signed Coco Crisp- There's your leadoff hitter, and a darn good one at that. The Tigers said they wanted speed. Well, here's your speed. Unfortunately, he's now signed with the A's after saying he wanted to sign with a contender *hint* *hint* *nudge* *nudge*. The only legit leadoff batter on the market now is Johnny Damon. Oops, the Tiger's DH spot is already taken. Now we have to rely on Austin Jackson... Yeah, there's your speed if he can get on base...

3. Trade Nick Castellanos and Casey Crosby + to San Diego for Chase Headley- THERE'S YOUR 3B. He hits with power. He can field. Oh wait, HE'S ALSO YOUNG and CHEAP. Chase Headley would replace Castellanos, and would be a welcome addition to the Tigers lineup. If the Tigers could get him for a reasonable price by giving up some top young talent in their pool without giving all of it, then YES DO IT. Unfortunately, they don't want to give up Nick Castellanos to do this (which is dumb, as you'd be replacing him with Major League talent that's here to stay).

4. Sign Roy Oswalt to a 1 Year $8 Million contract- That rounds out your pitching staff. You have a solid rotation headed by Verlander. You also have a solid staff now.

Now your Tigers roster could have looked like this:

1. Coco Crisp RF
2. Ramon Santiago 2B
3. Brennan Boesch LF
4. Miguel Cabrera 1B
5. Victor Martinez DH
6. Jhonny Peralta SS
7. Chase Healdey 3B
8. Alex Avila C
9. Austin Jackson CF

Justin Verlander; Doug Fister; Roy Oswalt; Max Scherzer; Rick Porcello

Al Alburqurque, Phil Coke, Collin Balester, Daniel Schlereth, Octavio Dotel, Juaquin Benoit, Jose Valverde


Except, we didn't try to be aggressive and fill our needs. We're gonna settle on TWO platoons while we try to overpay for a Cuban bust all the while this upcoming baseball year is clearly turning into the year of the stacked team.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

There is nothing past more power.

Power=/=Bat speed

You can be one of the strongest players in the game and be a .100 hitter because you can't get your bat around fast enough.

 

[moi]

Power=/=Bat speed

You can be one of the strongest players in the game and be a .100 hitter because you can't get your bat around fast enough.

I never made that claim! Read more carefully. Also, just because they don't directly equate, doesn't mean that they aren't proportional. One's bat speed is capable of being higher with more muscle mass, as they can apply more force, causing greater acceleration.

 

[ButteredToast]

@Cepedes Crowd: Cepedes is a prospect. That's it. Nothing more than a prospect. He's not MLB ready right now.

@Orb: Yankees are making good moves. I'm not totally worried about them, and I don't think they have the division locked, as the Red Sox are going to be dirt dogs this year, not the spoiled princesses we were last year. We will still post 7 runs on average a night like last year, our rotation has more upside without John Lackey taking up a spot and with Buchholz healthy, and our bullpen is one of the best in the american league.

We have a better mind set, we are not entitled bitches anymore. We know that we need to give an effort. We got a new Captain in Pedroia, a new tight ass manager in Bobby V, and a buch of people who have something to prove to the city of Boston. The Red Sox are still the team we were last year. We can win 120 games with our guys right now. We have the best offense in the majors. We have freaking Jacoby Ellsbury and A-Gon and Papi and Crawford and Pedroia and Josh Beckett. I still view us as the favorite in the East in by pure talent. We just need to improve the mental aspect of the team. We need to be a team again like the 2004 team. We need go back to the mentality that we have something to prove to baseball, and we do.

We seem to be re-cursed with the september debacle, and I'm embarresed to be a Sox fan. We were turning into the pop stars and (BAN ME PLEASE)s that are the Yankees of the 1998-present era, thinking that we are entitled to winning just because we are the Sox. It seems like we are going back to the dirt dog era of the early 2000's. We are getting the guys like Dave Roberts and Kevin Millar and Keith Foulke instead of paying big money for CJ Wilson.


The offseason is not over yet as well. We still have some moves we can make to get better.
I want the Red Sox to counter the Yankees if it is at the right price. I don't want to make a move just to make a move. Small moves need to be made, like low risk rebounders and trading for people with fair amounts of team control. I don't want to spend the farm on a guy like Matt Garza. If we can get him for a reasonable price, sure. But not for the crazy amount they are asking.

In truth, the Red Sox need to make a move, not to counter the Yankees, but because they have to replace Diasuke and John Lackey for the year. They don't need to go out and trade for King Feliz, or sign Roy Oswalt to a $12 million dollar contract. What we need is to do the stuff we have done with Bailey and Melancon with some starters and keep signing low risk high reward pitchers like Kashmir and Webb. Again, young guys and dirt dog types you are good team players, not entitled brats.


Bellow, I'm going to give a list of possible pitching moves still left that the Sox can make. I expect they are not done just yet, as there are still some problems in the starting pitching area that need to be addressed. Look for the Sox to make 3 or 4 more moves to aid their pitching situaton.

MOVES THROUGH FREE AGENCY

Hide

The only problem that the Red Sox have is starting pitching. There is a long list of starting picthers who won't break the bank still in free agency that can make a big impact for us. These free agents are:

Brandon Webb
Rich Harden
Armando Galarraga
Joel Pineiro
Tim Wakefield
Chris Young
Edwin Jackson
Roy Oswalt




At 33 years old, Brandon Webb can be had for nothing because of his injuries and on a minor league deal would be a perfect rehab candidate. Give him a one year contract for $1 million if he gets called up with a $5 million team option for 2013 and you are set to go. The worst thing that could happen is that he busts, the best is that he reverts to All Star/Cy Young form. The guy can pitch, give him a chance. This is a must have guy for the Sox.

Rich Harden is only 30 years old, and the Sox showed interest in him last year by almost trading Lars Anderson to the A's. He has expressed interest in either starting or relieving, and I would assume that he would want to play for a contender. A minor league contract would be the key to this deal, but it would be worth it for Harden to look to restart his career. Like Webb, I think Harden is a must have guy because of his versitility.

Joel Pineiro would be a great fit to return to the Sox on a major league contract to start the season. Pineiro has had some success with the Angles and the Cardinals despite having a bad season last year. The Sox may want to take a look at Pineiro for start of the year depth in case Bard does not look good in spring training.

Armando Galarraga has shown flashes of strength in his career, best illistrated in the legendary "Imperfect" game. He spent the majority of 2011 in AAA, so a minor league contract would be what he is looking at. This guy has a good attitude and would help us out with some depth in case of injuries. Unlike some of the other guys with injuries, Galarraga can break camp with us. For a price of around 700K, he might be worth the risk.

Tim Wakefield will probably be invited to spirng training as a non-roster to help out our depth. If he is ok with a minor league spot with a possible chance to get called up like Tek, I don't see why we don't give him a chance, as we know what we are going to get from him every time he takes the mound. Good sign here for depth.

Chris Young could be a possibility on a minor league deal to see if he is healthy. Small chance that Young can remain healthy to make any impact in AAA let alone the show, but it might be a chance that the Sox are willing to take.

Edwin Jackson and Roy Oswalt are the two big names still left on the table. I don't see the Sox making a splash on them because of their price range and the fact that we are looking at the luxary cap with eclipses for eyes. I do put them on the list however, because of our Theo compensation with the Cubs. We may be fine with a sign and trade of one of these guys with the Cubs picking up the entire contract so that it doesn't count toward our pay roll. Just something to think about.

MOVES THROUGH TRADES

Hide

The Red Sox still have a great minor league system despite it being picked thin with our trades for Adrian Gonzalez, Eric Bedard, Andrew Bailey, Mike Aviles, and Mark Melancon. However, many of our prospects are blocked in positions that have long term players like A-Gon, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Crawford. For other positions, we have too many good prospects and can afford to shead our surplus of it for picthing. Some of the guys that I can see getting traded are:

Will Middlebrooks 3B/1B, 23 years old, AAA, #1 Sox Prospect: He is considered to be the Red Sox #1 top prospect, yet he is blocked by Kevin Youkilis at third and A-Gon at first. We also have a shit load of other 3rd baseman in the system like Cecchin and Vitek. Played in AAA last year, close to being MLB ready. Could be a great trade chip for us to get some pitching. Maybe your Tigers would take a look J-Man. :P

Xavier Bogarts SS, 19 years old, High A, Sox #3 Prospect: Breakout player for the Sox in A ball last year. The problem is, he and our next prospect Jose Iglesias are at the same position. Red Sox could look to trade Bogarts for picthing because of being blocked if they are serious about Iglasias being our future. Problem is, he is not real MLB ready and would not get as much as Iglasias despite being higher rated. Houston may bite in a trade for Bud Norris...

Jose Iglesias SS, 21 years old, AAA, Sox #4 Prospect: Considered to be the future of the Red Sox at SS. Defense has been compared to Ozzie Smith believe it or not. Problem is, his offense is kind of a let down and is the reason he won't be starting for us this year. He might have the highest value right now, and if the Sox have faith in Xavier Bogarts, Iglesias would be good for a big return. Again, his defense is far better than MLB ready, but his bat is a big question mark despite having all the tools to do will. Again, his value is huge right now and may be able to get a sizable return.

Ryan Lavarnway C/DH, 24 years old, AAA, Sox #5 prospect: This guy is MLB ready, having hit freaking 32 homers in the minors and 2 in the Majors fkr a total of 34 on the year. Was up with the Sox last year prior to September, filling in when Big Papi was hurt. Had two real clutch hits late in the game, and impressed a lot of people including myself. MLB ready, could be a great trade candidate if we are OK with giving Salty the job permantly. Kansas City would be a team who would want Lava.

Lars Anderson 1B, 24 years old, AAA, Unranked Prospect: Lars was once a great prospect through the system, but had some problems at AA, and got thrown out of the lime light by Anthony Rizzo who was traded for A-Gon. Still has some value even though we missed the boat trading him when he was killing it, maybe good to package with someone else.

Dan Bard SP, 27 years old, MLB, Not a Prospect:throwing D. Bard on this list because we want him to be a SP. I'd rather trade him for some ace than try and "Joba" him into the rotation. Either he is a reliever, or I want to look to trade him if I can for a humongous name that I can count on. I wouldn't sell him cheap, I'd be looking for someone like Clayton or King Felix or Josh Johnson or Chris Carpenter. I don't want to mess him up when his value as a closer is off the chain right now. Again, look what happened to Joba. May be a good move to trade him now for a starter instead of gambling on converting him.





Now for the guys that we can get. I would love to have Bud Norris on the Sox. Norris has all the tools to be a team Ace, and switching from the terrable astros to the Sox could spark him. He'd be fairly cheap and reminds me of a right handed John Lester when he is on. He's just now learning how to pitch, and has ace stuff that keeps getting better. I love this guy, and think he would be a killer in Boston.


John Niese would come cheap and would work well too. Matt Garza would be a good #3 or #4 guy, but with the asking price of Theo it would be an overpay unless we use our compensation to lower the price. Chad Billingsley has been kind of a disapointment with the Dodgers and they might move him for a guy like Middlebrooks or Lavarnway, and might be worth the risk. Jair Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson would be good shot to take as well. If the White Sox still want to get rid of John Danks, I'd bite on him too. Kansas City may trade Luke Hochevar, who would be a good #5 guy.

The Red Sox shouldn't overpay for a player, but there is sure to be someone out there that can be had for a bargain price. We just need to have the balls to pull the trigger and give up a few prospects for guys that can have an impact like Bud Norris.

 

[orbpom123]

@Orb: We have the best offense in the majors. I still view us as the favorite in the East in by pure talent.

We have my favorite player to can steal 60 a season, the symbol of baseball having 3000 hits, IMO one of the best players of all time only entering his prime who makes plays at second nobody would make, Someone who hit 40 HR's before, an ex tiger who was probably the breakout player of the year, Russel-got-muscle who was an absolutely perfect signing for us, commanding our pitchers and led us to the postseason(cough varitek didnt), barring the steroid arguement one of the best players of all time with fielding, speed, power, and average, and thats only our offense. You definitely do not have the best lineup, that belongs to us or the rangers.

 

[the Logger]

OMG! Reports confirmed Yankees and mariners swap their futures in the form of Jesus Montero and michael pineda. Also the mariners give up prospect Jose Campos and Yankees rhp hector noesi. I am absolutely shocked because for 2 years Montero was deemed that of a legend, and was convinced we could buy the Mlb for him. I'm glad we get a solid #2 starter who has a live arm, but jesus was one of the best prospects in the majors and as I see a future batting champion/mvp. Your thoughts

You know, I thought this was a joke at first when I received the notification last nite while watching Reborn! (And then promptly paused the episode and research the deal). At first, I was mad that we just gave up Montero. But then, I did some digging. and here are the things I love about the deal:

1.Pineda's Contract - Five years, with two years at the league minimum, that's a great deal for a starter, especially one like pIneda, who has a massive ceiling and could legit be a number 2. I worry about him in the AL East and Yankee Stadium, but considering his talent, I think he can make the necessary adjustments.

2.The Price - I know that sounds silly, but considering the fact we got a great Low minors propect AND Pineda for Noesi and Montero is a pretty fair deal (Without Campos though, i'd think otherwise). And compared to what we would have to give up for King Felix or any other accomplished pitcher on the market (Even Ken Williams was asking for The Bs + Montero for Danks), this is more then reasonable.

3.Low Risk - Yes, it would sting if Montero went on to be an MVP and All Star and Pineda only ended up being a middle of the rotation starter. But unlike many pitchers who have underperformed in New York (cough... AJ Burnett ...cough), he won't become dead weight if he sucks. And the reward significantly outweighs the risk.

4.Pineda is young - At 22, he still has lots of room to improve, and can be extented if he proves to truly be a worthwhile piece of this rotation.

5.We finally have a reason to trade/neglect Aj Burnett - Both moves made last nite solidify 4 spots of our rotation (CC, Nova, Pineda, Kuroda), so the fifth spot is up for grabs. And while I think AJ could make it in just because of that contract, I think that the fans and organization alike are fed up with AJ and want him gone. And fact is, if Zambrano was traded (Who was being paid more, was a bad headcase, and has slightly less upside than AJ), I don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility that he could be traded (Would have to be national league though, I just can't see him going anywhere else)

6.We still have the Killer Bs - And we were able to acquire a starter with great upside without sacrificing our two best pitching prospects. That's a win in my book, especially since Kuroda and Garcia will be gone in a year, and chances are one of those two (Betances and Banuelos) will be ready. Add that to an already accomplished young duo of Pineda and Nova, and we have a young core for our rotation for years to come.

In the end I like the deal, I think it was a good move on both sides (though I've seen fans on both sides of the spectrum), nice and even. Better than giving up the farm for King Felix IMO.

IDK if we'll win another ring this year (Though it would be nice to get Mo one more before he retires), but this move really helps us in the long term.

We have my favorite player to can steal 60 a season, the symbol of baseball having 3000 hits, IMO one of the best players of all time only entering his prime who makes plays at second nobody would make, Someone who hit 40 HR's before, an ex tiger who was probably the breakout player of the year, Russel-got-muscle who was an absolutely perfect signing for us, commanding our pitchers and led us to the postseason(cough varitek didnt), barring the steroid arguement one of the best players of all time with fielding, speed, power, and average, and thats only our offense. You definitely do not have the best lineup, that belongs to us or the rangers.

I considered the two offenses on par until yesterday's trade. However, I think the Red Sox's lack of pitching depth will hurt them in the future. Yes, their top three are amazing, but who behind is even competent? Aaron Cook is a decent starter at best and he pitched in the weakest hitting division in baseball (though I will conceed that Coors Field is an extreme hitters park). Bard is unproven as a starter. Aceves is somewhat inconsistent, and overall, a better reliever and spot starter. And your minor league pitching depth is good, from what I can tell, but are's is just better, and that trade helped it. And while your back end of your bullpen is quite good, the Melancon-Bailey looks weak in comparison to Robertson-Rivera (Though I doubt Robertson will have that kind of year again).

At the current moment, on paper, we look like the better organization overall, though not by much. That does NOT mean we've already won the East, or even the Wild Card. Who knows, maybe we choke next season. And the Rays are still an X-Factor in all of this.