Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[Aquaslash]

>Sheer Force Fire Fang on base mawile
>Sheer Force Fire Fang on base mawile
>Sheer Force Fire Fang on base mawile

Don't forget Mega Diancie, but yeah, you're fucked.

This is what you call scraping the bottom of the barrel, cause it's not like there's much else left. =P

Also:
>Mega Diancie
>Vs Bullet Punch: The Experience

Another body for MegaGross, whom I'm pretty sure just got the clear to 6-0 almost any fairy team. I'll need to run some calcs when I get home, but it's sounding as auto win as a lead cloyster vs a flying team with no priority

 

[Anttya]

This is what you call scraping the bottom of the barrel, cause it's not like there's much else left. =P

Also:
>Mega Diancie
>Vs Bullet Punch: The Experience

Another body for MegaGross, whom I'm pretty sure just got the clear to 6-0 almost any fairy team. I'll need to run some calcs when I get home, but it's sounding as auto win as a lead cloyster vs a flying team with no priority

I've found Klefiki with Foul Play + Screens to be pretty effective. But yeah, Fairy vs Steel is going to be hard. (Hint: Try getting rid of Skarm's Sturdy, Ferrothorn, and weaken Metagross before setting up Belly Drum Azu)

 

[Salemance]

I dont mean to sound rude or anything but was there also inclusive data or something on the former ubers (skymin and k-w and all) for them not to be rebanned? If so thats fine just was curious i didnt see a mention on em in the post.


The Slowbro ban is expected and i dont know hoe i feel per say bout it. The double dance of calm kind and iron defense is always silly, and then it can be difficult to take out so i guess it was fine just interestjng i guess.

Mawilite deserved to hit the road. Fai can kill me later but i never cared for that thing.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Pfft most of the community didn't talk in this forum, seems like 50% or more of the posts are roomauth in mono so it is their say more than anything, so I have no problem seeing this new metagame unfolds (the tribe has spoken XD). The masses of fairy players must think it is banworthy to not speak, don't know about this place, or they are just lazy

Most of the Community didn't contribute to the discussion because they decided not to. This Thread is open publicly, and advertised by the Mono Room's Intro and by enthusiasts on the Forums through Signatures. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be safe to assume that anyone who has a deep enough interest in the Monotype Tier and/or the state of the Metagame, would either visit the Monotype Room and see this or search for it on the Forums themselves even if they didn't see anyone signatures.

"50%" of this discussion is the Mono Staff and the other 50% a handful of Top Players/Monotype enthusiasts because they're the only ones who care enough to hold a discussion.

Everyone who visits Showdown or Smogon has equal opportunity to contribute to these discussions. They should know about it if they really care about the Tier. It's an open discussion and if the Community doesn't care enough to type at least a paragraph, then so be it.

I'd take quality, well thought out Post over a deluge of unsupported opinions and comments any day.

Speaking of opinions, allow me to share mine.

Great discussion on Mawile-Mega all. As a person who rarely used it and almost always prepared for it, I initially didn't recognize it as a Threat to the health of the Metagame, but with this discussion, my eyes have beeen opened. Thanks to everyone for exposing the threat and doing what needed to be done for the Metagame.

That said, as I see it now, the argument used for Mawile-Mega could apply to Gallade-Mega and, by extension, Medicham-Mega as well. In summary, Gallade also has SD to render its Checks and Counters into the Checked and Countered, has the Coverage to do so, and Speed in place of Mawile's Sucker Punch. Much like Mawile, Gallade can force Switches to net a SD, and proceed to annihilate Types that simply cannot handle it's Close Combat + Coverage Moves. This is where the similarities stop however, as Gallade doesn't have the Bulk or Typing to help it do its job (assuming a Speedy Set is being used). But it must also be considered that Gallade-Mega does have a form of Priority in Shadow Sneak, and as thus finds no problem running a Bulky Set. For these reasons, I think Gallade is definitely worth the discussion.

 

[Freeroamer]

I dont mean to sound rude or anything but was there also inclusive data or something on the former ubers (skymin and k-w and all) for them not to be rebanned? If so thats fine just was curious i didnt see a mention on em in the post.


The Slowbro ban is expected and i dont know hoe i feel per say bout it. The double dance of calm kind and iron defense is always silly, and then it can be difficult to take out so i guess it was fine just interestjng i guess.

Mawilite deserved to hit the road. Fai can kill me later but i never cared for that thing.

Skymin and Kyurem-W teams are fairly few and far between and so weren't considered as detrimental to the metagame as the likes of Slowbro and Mawile but I'd imagine they'll get visited at some point down the line.

Pfft most of the community didn't talk in this forum, seems like 50% or more of the posts are roomauth in mono so it is their say more than anything, so I have no problem seeing this new metagame unfolds (the tribe has spoken XD). The masses of fairy players must think it is banworthy to not speak, don't know about this place, or they are just lazy if the meta is really projected to be that bad for fairy. To side note this though it isn't like all of the matchups are balanced outside of this anyways, normal hates fighting fighting and that applies to most disadvantages. Now fairy has an extremely uphill battle like most types.

As a side note I'm still in the dark about the fighting twin bans, and the sableye ban. Needs enlightenment from experienced players who use it often and those who hate fighting it. I personally like fighting all 3 because I donk them so easily XD.

Everyone is made well aware that this is the place to post if you want your opinions to actually be reasonably discussed, generally speaking room discussions are good but don't tend to last or get derailed by some trolls or something. It was also being discussed for long enough, in fact a common complaint of this process was that it took too long to get to actually doing something(not criticising Nani at all it's just what some people have said).

This is what you call scraping the bottom of the barrel, cause it's not like there's much else left. =P

Also:
>Mega Diancie
>Vs Bullet Punch: The Experience

Another body for MegaGross, whom I'm pretty sure just got the clear to 6-0 almost any fairy team. I'll need to run some calcs when I get home, but it's sounding as auto win as a lead cloyster vs a flying team with no priority

This is kinda true, but if you think about it, in the ORAS metagame which I've already seen, Psychic doesn't tend to use Mega Metagross as it seems to favour one of Gallade or Medicham while Steel will obviously now use Metagross, but it already had a massive advantage over Fairy and at best, the match would come down to who played their Mega Mawile better. I'm not using this to justify it, just saying that I don't think you'll see Mega Metagross that often, but let's see.

...
All I have to say is, im not beaing steel anymore or even bug without mawile :]
Thanks, with love Ashaury <3

Read the above, we've been talking about Mawile for a good length of time now, you had the chance to post.

For my personal point of view, I'm very glad to see both of these go, I made my arguments earlier in this thread, and I believe they both had a detrimental effect on the meta. I'll talk about Mega Gallade/Cham and Sableye later, but first I want to express my fear that if we keep overlooking the problem that Flying teams represent that we'll eventually end up with a centralised meta, in that Flying is the dominant force. I know it's hard to actually suggest how to balance Flying, as nothing stands out as broken, but it's something that should be addressed.

 

[ArVaDa-]

Enoch I was poking fun at my own disappointment XD. I think it is interesting roomauth outnumbers/breaks even with regular users. Obviously they contribute more and have earned a responsibilty by being recognized user/whatever so maybe it is to be expected idk.

Also I'm not sure I would be happy with everyone in the mono room talking in here because not everyone really has a solid understanding of the metagame and is good enough to make quality responses. That being said, I would've liked to have seen arken and ashaury (fairy players), and some other top players like pika, kaiser, and Arifeen (arifeen, pika, kaiser, and arken are okay/support the bans but the lack of posts is sad imo) commenting on on their experiences in matches, since I see them on the ladder (80+ GXEs and over 100 games played makes me feel a bit more comfortable with those opinions). Only other person I've actually seen on the ladder to post here is All Falls Down. The ladder doesn't mean everything, but I think it gives people more standing than just saying stuff they are theory mon-ing on top of having less than 50 games played, with those games more than likely not giving you a proper taste of how things really are currently, I know the ladder reset.

For my personal point of view, I'm very glad to see both of these go, I made my arguments earlier in this thread, and I believe they both had a detrimental effect on the meta. I'll talk about Mega Gallade/Cham and Sableye later, but first I Want to express my fear that if we keep overlooking the problem that Flying teams represent that we'll eventually end up with a centralised meta, in that Flying is the dominant force. I know it's hard to actually suggest how to balance Flying, as nothing stands out as broken, but it's something that should be addressed.

Flying is a bear, you can try getting away with banning zard x and come up with a bunch of calcs to support it, or that it is so versatile that it needs to be banned. You're looking at another derived ban from not wanting to deal with the flying core so this is like mawile round 2.

Regardless steel's core is just as annoying/successful, as is alot of cores on a ton of monotypes. I'm telling you guys the higher up the ladder you go the more matches are determined by plays versus type matchups deciding things. (although I am waiting for the day for someone to finally revolutionize rock to the point that I actually see it on ladder ever Chimplup )

Edit: Also has ground been mentioned? Generic ground is quite solid, the core of hippow, gastro, and being able to spam a speedy excadrill under sand is pretty tough, especially with no smooth rock complex ban like water has.

 

[Croven]

Actually, the Mawile ban heavily nerfed Flying as a whole. I don't have a lot of time to post right now, so I'll make it brief. Banning Mawile made M-Metagross and M-Diancie far more popular, both of which nuke Flying. The best answer for both of them is Skarm, and we all know how he can be taken advantage of incredibly easily. Most competent Fairy and Steel players will find it very easy to muscle their way past Flying. I just wanted to point out that this ban did not help Flying in the slightest, and that if Flying is still a hugely dominant force in the meta, we could nerf it. However, the dominance of Flying has fallen and should be given the back seat for now. Anyway, I have to go now, so yeah that's it.

 

[DoW]

Flying is a bear, you can try getting away with banning zard x and come up with a bunch of calcs to support it, or that it is so versatile that it needs to be banned. You're looking at another derived ban from not wanting to deal with the flying core so this is like mawile round 2.

Edit: Also has ground been mentioned? Generic ground is quite solid, the core of hippow, gastro, and being able to spam a speedy excadrill under sand is pretty tough, especially with no smooth rock complex ban like water has.

For flying, I definitely don't think Zard X is the answer: it's a good sweeper, and decent stally mon, but there's other pokes that do a similar job almost as well and I think the broken thing about flying is the support rather than the sweeping. Because of this I'd recommend more than one ban: One for offensive support, where I'd suggest Landorus-I due to it destroying a large number of types almost single-handedly and pairing very well with many of flying's sweepers, and Zapdos or Togekiss have been suggested by others as decent potential bans to nerf stallier flying teams, as they provide a lot of valuable support. Honestly I think these pokemon are not only more deserving of bans but would also cause more change via their bans. But as other people have said, flying is something of a backseat compared to other new megas, though perhaps more prominant than Kyu-W, Skymin and Genesect right now. Croven raised a good point in that M-Maw was easily dealt with by flying, whereas its probable replacements (M-Diancie and M-Metagross) are far harder to deal with for flying.

As for generic ground, I think of this as a high-level but not broken offensive core in terms of Sand Rush Exca to sweep, Lando-I, Nidoking or M-Garchomp for wallbreaker and perhaps a few other good mons such as Mamoswine, while Hippowdon and Gastrodon make for an extremely powerful defensive core. If it were decided to be too powerful, smooth rock could be banned on ground, however as it stands I don't think this is particularly necessary. If it can be shown to single-handedly destroy a fair number of teams this should perhaps be considered, though again I would suggest it not be the highest priority right now.

Praise Nani Ban!

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

For flying, I definitely don't think Zard X is the answer: it's a good sweeper, and decent stally mon, but there's other pokes that do a similar job almost as well and I think the broken thing about flying is the support rather than the sweeping. Because of this I'd recommend more than one ban: One for offensive support, where I'd suggest Landorus-I due to it destroying a large number of types almost single-handedly and pairing very well with many of flying's sweepers, and Zapdos or Togekiss have been suggested by others as decent potential bans to nerf stallier flying teams, as they provide a lot of valuable support. Honestly I think these pokemon are not only more deserving of bans but would also cause more change via their bans. But as other people have said, flying is something of a backseat compared to other new megas, though perhaps more prominant than Kyu-W, Skymin and Genesect right now. Croven raised a good point in that M-Maw was easily dealt with by flying, whereas its probable replacements (M-Diancie and M-Metagross) are far harder to deal with for flying.

As for generic ground, I think of this as a high-level but not broken offensive core in terms of Sand Rush Exca to sweep, Lando-I, Nidoking or M-Garchomp for wallbreaker and perhaps a few other good mons such as Mamoswine, while Hippowdon and Gastrodon make for an extremely powerful defensive core. If it were decided to be too powerful, smooth rock could be banned on ground, however as it stands I don't think this is particularly necessary. If it can be shown to single-handedly destroy a fair number of teams this should perhaps be considered, though again I would suggest it not be the highest priority right now.

Praise Nani Ban!

Personally, if we have to ban something on Flying, I agree that banning Lando-I would hurt offensive teams more (it kills so many teams just by slapping on a coverage move), while Togekiss hurts defensive teams more. Defensive teams rely on toxic/burn stalling, and without Togekiss as a reliable Heal Beller, they struggle to achieve this once they are statused. Zapdos is mostly used to Defog/Toxic stall, but Skarm (and just about every flying Pokemon) can defog, and its special defense isn't as high as Togekiss, so banning it would be less effective. I also agree, however, that the M-Mawile ban hurt flying, and I think that Sableye/Gallade are more pressing than flying as of now, especially as many types have solid cores (Gastrodon/Hippowdon, Mega-Venusaur/Ferrothorn, Heatran/Skarmory, etc.) and excellent Pokemon to take advantage of their support (Excadrill/Megachomp, Breloom/Skymin, Bisharp/Mega-Metagross). So basically, good job banning, the right stuff is being looked at right now, most types have solid cores, and while flying/ground are good types, they don't need any nerfs (at least, not right now).

 

[Acast]

Just wanted to mention that the main reason Damp Rock was banned for Water teams while Smooth Rock is still legal on Ground is that Rain increases the power of Water type moves, making Swift Swim sweeps incredibly easy if rain stays up for very long. Sandstorm doesn't give any offensive boosts and Sand Rush has much less distribution than Swift Swim, so sand sweeping isn't as threatening as rain sweeping. I personally see no reason to consider banning Smooth Rock on Ground teams.

As for the recent bans, Mega Slowbae will be missed by me because I'm gonna suck at using Psychic now, but I admit it was needed. Regarding Mega Mawile, good riddance. Yes, Fairy will have an incredibly difficult time against Steel, but things like that are sometimes unavoidable if we want to have a healthy metagame. Before ORAS, I would have argued that it was near impossible to defeat Dark teams with a Ghost team. I think I had only ever seen one person beat a good Dark team with Ghost without the help of any hax. It was frustrating as hell, but there was nothing that could be done to balance it out. I see the Fairy vs Steel situation as a parallel to the former Ghost vs Dark situation. It's frustrating, and I sympathize with the Fairy users, but Mega Mawile needed to go.

I haven't worked with Mega Gallade or Mega Medicham enough to know which side I support, so I'll have to take a look at them again. But I'm completely in agreement with Nani Man on the ban of Mega Sableye. It's simply too much to handle on Dark teams, while it actually makes Ghost viable again without being too ridiculous. Mega Sableye is the primary reason why Ghost stands a fighting chance against Dark teams again. I would argue that Mega Sableye somewhat balances the metagame as long as it's only on Ghost teams. As long as it's on Dark teams, it's hurting the metagame more than anything.

TL;DR Don't even consider banning Smooth Rock. Mega Slowbro and Mega Mawile needed to go. I'll work with Mega Gallade and Mega Medicham before I have an opinion on their future. Mega Sableye needs to be banned from Dark teams, but it should stay legal on Ghost teams.

 

[Aquaslash]

This is kinda true, but if you think about it, in the ORAS metagame which I've already seen, Psychic doesn't tend to use Mega Metagross as it seems to favour one of Gallade or Medicham while Steel will obviously now use Metagross, but it already had a massive advantage over Fairy and at best, the match would come down to who played their Mega Mawile better. I'm not using this to justify it, just saying that I don't think you'll see Mega Metagross that often, but let's see.

Steel never really needed to use Mawile as they had Metagross and a ton of stuff to back it up such as Klefki, Heatran, Bisharp, and Excadrill. Mawile was really just a backup sweeper/cleaner much like it was on Fairy. It gave fairy a fighting chance against steel as a check to Megatron, but it was still heavily in steel's favor.

Mawile leaving really only just gives steel a free win. Azumarill is still gonna tear just as much ass as he did before, he just won't have Mawile to fall back on if he screws up and Diancie dies.

I don't know about Mega Sableye on dark, I've never used it myself cause of pedoshark. I'll have to try it out or find some replays

 

[Ashaury]

Let's see, there's flamethrower on togekiss, superpower on Azumarill, focus miss on gardevoir, sheer force fire fang on base mawile...

Yeah I'm not even gonna flex on this, fairy is royally screwed against steel. All of those are worked over by just metagross, excadrill and scizor alone, and heatran can just soak up all those fire attacks. Plus they can use klefki too. It's not quite auto win, but it's just as uphill as Dark vs Bug or in some cases, Flying vs Ice

Lets see, there are good steel users running magnezone+megagross core, how im beting that with fairy?
Literally im not beating steel without mega mawile :] and when im saying that, im talking about good players.
Also "sheer force fire fang on base mawile..." I seriously hope that was a joke.
Is just a fucked up matchup, you cant compare dark vs bug with fairy vs steel xD

 

[Ashaury]

I've found Klefiki with Foul Play + Screens to be pretty effective. But yeah, Fairy vs Steel is going to be hard. (Hint: Try getting rid of Skarm's Sturdy, Ferrothorn, and weaken Metagross before setting up Belly Drum Azu)

MAGNEZONE+MEGAGROSS/SCIZOR
Is not hard, is dumb.

 

[Aquaslash]

Lets see, there are good steel users running magnezone+megagross core, how im beting that with fairy?
Literally im not beating steel without mega mawile :] and when im saying that, im talking about good players.
Also "sheer force fire fang on base mawile..." I seriously hope that was a joke.
Is just a fucked up matchup, you cant compare dark vs bug with fairy vs steel xD

It's pretty much an auto-lose for Fairy, but look at it this way:
It's only one matchup out of 18. I personally disagree with the others on Mawile being brokem, but whether it's broken or not is irrelevant. Majority rule got this one. The others made it clear that they weren't having fun with it around. If auto-losing one matchup means everyone else has more fun, then so be it.
It's lot like you don't have, at best FOUR other power sweepers, and the incredible bullsh*t that is paraflinch Togekiss. I once literally paraflinched my way into the semi final round of a room tourney with just togekiss and klefki.

 

[Ashaury]

It's pretty much an auto-lose for Fairy, but look at it this way:
It's only one matchup out of 18. I personally disagree with the others on Mawile being brokem, but whether it's broken or not is irrelevant. Majority rule got this one. The others made it clear that they weren't having fun with it around. If auto-losing one matchup means everyone else has more fun, then so be it.
It's lot like you don't have, at best FOUR other power sweepers, and the incredible bullsh*t that is paraflinch Togekiss. I once literally paraflinched my way into the semi final round of a room tourney with just togekiss and klefki.

Maybe its fun for everyone in mono tours, but is not fun in the ladder when steel is a common type...
And I tought this was competitive, not for fun.
I´m not even complaying about other types, is just for steel and bug... Genesect+Scizor, Zone+Megagross.
But well, since this is already decided theres nothing I can do xD
Its a shame.

 

[n64lord]

I guess we all saw megaslowbro going down.

Dark has always been an interesting type, and seemingly has the ability to afford a good degree of customability, although the truth is not so rosy.

First off is everyone's favorite speed tier 100. Dark only beats it with 7 pokemon, three of which are iffy megas, and another 3 of which are even more niche than them due to myriad flaws. The man left standing is greninja. While he is worthy of usage, the limit on teambuilding is obvious. The problem is worse if you consider scarfed pokemon, or aim for 110.

Then there are fighting attacks. Mandibuzz has been called mandatory for dark teams by many users, and this will likely continue, as will it's favorite defensive core partners, tyranitar and sablye who just suck up special attacks or weaken the things cabable of powering through. This is compounded by the relative slowness of dark teams, and since your opponet will likely be able to put pressure on you with faster pokemon, you risk stagnant play by running away to your walls; Since they can force your hand here, these walls had better be good.

Dark team's hate balance, and status in particular, as this core can be outwalled easily if an extra damage source (will o wisp and scald come to mind) is present, and offensive teamates like bisharp and hydregon could be neutered outright or forced to watch unavoidable incoming damage become worse.

Mega Sableye provides an alternate win condition, still fulfills the function of most normal sableye, since it could set up alongside them and no longer needs taunt to stop greedy offensie pokemon, and as a bonus, blocks status forever except against specific mons. It can be taken down by some swords dance mons through a burn (like crawdaunt) if they take the time to go to +4, but it will mean the last time they can be used in the battle and the sablye user can sometimes pull a fast one with mandibuzz or death fodder+ their own fast or priority mon. It also can't setup if enemy special attackers are out at the same time it's at 0 or +1 in some cases, and loses to every relevant calm minder and quite a few irrelevant ones.

Despite this, the reward for using him effectively is winning the game, and he has turned dark vs fighting and steel into a beatdown. While it can be argued that fishing for burn or using two physical pokemon (exca+metagros for example) so it's in KO range of the other when the first faints of burn damage, the most convenient teams to use on the ladder, if not getting swept by it outright, still cripple a sizeable amount of their team to take it out, and tyranitar+mandibuzz, are tailor made to cover special attackers and mons that need to boost before attacking (through intermediate bulk+ foul play and speed creeping).

Dark MegaSableye is almost in the same boat as megaslowbro, which is easy to draw up as heavy duty physical wall(rather than tank in the case of balanced pokemon) that can boost up to sweep and increase what it can tank. It uses specific teamates to cover its weakness instead of tons of bulky partners to choose from unlike bro, but these mons are omnipresent for dark teams anyway, which makes their oppurtunity cost pretty low at the end of the day. If for some reason it can't do this job, it can still kill stall and force slow KOs or double switches against the hazard setters and walls your opponet NEED to handle the likes of greninja and bisharp.

 

[Nani Man]

I understand the distress of the Mawilite ban for Fairy teams, but you will have to adapt and change the standard team style of "set screens and spam sucker" with Fairy teams, as it was honestly getting overwhelming for most teams, and took little to no effort in doing so. This will now force different antics and I hope to see Mega Diancie in action, with its massive offensive powers and nice physical rock STAB. It's too early to draw conclusions yet, as the bans are not even live on the server yet, so until then, we need to wait and see how it pans out for Fairy. Just as a side note and confidence booster, one of the highest ranked fairy users on the ladder does not even use Mega Mawile, so don't think losing that means Fairy is now trash, because it definitely is not.

Anyway, I want to talk about Galladite in this post. Mega Gallade is probably even worse than Mega Medicham, due to its bulk and dirty Bulk Up Drain Punch sets that some carry. This is totally devastating to every normal team and most steel teams. Some run just an offensive SD variant, which is probably more destructive. Mega Gallade, just like Mega Mawile, needs to set one SD and the pressure is on. Unless you have a physical scarfer (assuming it is at full health and can survive a +2 shadow sneak), most will fall to a +2 CC or Drain Punch. Taking a look on how teams manage against Mega Gallade:

normal - will get dominated, even with mega arduino.

fire - can apply great offensive pressure, and runs nice scarf users, so probably neutral.

water - can hope for scald burns, but if on psychic teams, the burn will be healed. other than that, the offensive pressure gets too much for water. slowbro gets deck'd by knock off

electric - deck'd. can have rotom-w as a check assuming its at full health, lanturn with twave, but again, if these mons arent at full health, its over. fighting will never allow that and psychic can stall it out.

grass - can hope for skymin hax. not good enough reasoning though

ice - can apply heavy damage with kyurem-w draco or ice punch weavile. but drain punch will give back a lot of hp. so ice will struggle heavily.

fighting - neutral.

poison - if(psycho cut) { deck'd; }

ground - hippo can check for so long, and sand rush excadrill can hope for iron head flinches or ko with earthquake if gallade is damaged. would be a bit of a struggle

flying - skarmory can hold it off until it sd's and ruins everything with ice punch. zard mega x can be bulky and WoW but if its +2, don't think it'd survive.

psychic - whoever +2's with gallade first and shadow sneak/knock off spams.

bug - mega pinsir is tanned but its outsped, so need to make sure mega gallade is weakened before quick attacking. probably neutral matchup

rock - rof

ghost - knock off spam, sneak spam, though aegislash and mega sableye can probably hold its own and support the team well.

dragon - offensive usually, so classic outrage spam would probably be fine, but its a poor playstyle in other scenarios.

dark - reliant on mega sableye and greninja to hold off and revenge kill respectively. not good enough as mega gallade can sub/sd/bulk up

steel - overwhelming pressure. if skarmory is gone, gonna have a hard time.

fairy - clefable is a great wall, as is prankster klefki t-wave to cripple it. fairy could hold its own i believe

Just a quick analysis on how teams match against this powerful mega in my opinion and experiences, so share your thoughts on that for the community to read and think about. Having said all of that, I am supportive of a global ban for Galladite, though I want to hear what the community has to say. Also, please note anyone can talk and vent their thoughts here. You don't need an invitation to post here, as someone above implied.

 

[Ashaury]

I understand the distress of the Mawilite ban for Fairy teams, but you will have to adapt and change the standard team style of "set screens and spam sucker" with Fairy teams, as it was honestly getting overwhelming for most teams, and took little to no effort in doing so. This will now force different antics and I hope to see Mega Diancie in action, with its massive offensive powers and nice physical rock STAB. It's too early to draw conclusions yet, as the bans are not even live on the server yet, so until then, we need to wait and see how it pans out for Fairy. Just as a side note and confidence booster, one of the highest ranked fairy users on the ladder does not even use Mega Mawile, so don't think losing that means Fairy is now trash, because it definitely is not.

Nani, what are you talking about? I wish every battle I play with fairy I could just set screens and spam sucker punch lmao.
Fairy is fine with Mega Diancie, but I´m not beating steel anymore THATS MY ISSUE. Now I feel like ice :[
Also "one of the highest ranked fairy users on the ladder does not even use Mega Mawile" who's that?

 

[Anttya]

Not too sure, but I think Noah didn't use Mega Maw

 

[feen]

Okay my turn.
Mega Mawile: On steel, it has access to 4 walls and can switch into them and with the intimidate can be tanky enough to use an SD and then it all goes down to prediction. Ban it on Steel? Yes.
On fairy, although with screens it can tank SDs, fairy does not have much walls and can be completely (Yes completely) destroyed by steel (MegaGross/MegaScizor)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-monotype-1298378 <- Prime example and don't even say Kaiser is bad you irrelevant scrubs

Mega Slowbro: Cancer good riddance.

Mega Charizard X: Why are you people searching for an excuse to nerf flying? It survived a generation without any boosts and if you don't like Skarm+Zapdos walling you (I heard there was a discussion about suspecting Zapdos smh) pack some Ice+Rock moves or check the cores to see what destroys Flying. Also, Zard X is no way near broken and the people who even thinks about banning it should totally reconsider that because that is literally a stupid thought.

 

[kuki]

I understand the distress of the Mawilite ban for Fairy teams, but you will have to adapt and change the standard team style of "set screens and spam sucker" with Fairy teams, as it was honestly getting overwhelming for most teams, and took little to no effort in doing so. This will now force different antics and I hope to see Mega Diancie in action, with its massive offensive powers and nice physical rock STAB. It's too early to draw conclusions yet, as the bans are not even live on the server yet, so until then, we need to wait and see how it pans out for Fairy. Just as a side note and confidence booster, one of the highest ranked fairy users on the ladder does not even use Mega Mawile, so don't think losing that means Fairy is now trash, because it definitely is not.

Anyway, I want to talk about Galladite in this post. Mega Gallade is probably even worse than Mega Medicham, due to its bulk and dirty Bulk Up Drain Punch sets that some carry. This is totally devastating to every normal team and most steel teams. Some run just an offensive SD variant, which is probably more destructive. Mega Gallade, just like Mega Mawile, needs to set one SD and the pressure is on. Unless you have a physical scarfer (assuming it is at full health and can survive a +2 shadow sneak), most will fall to a +2 CC or Drain Punch. Taking a look on how teams manage against Mega Gallade:

normal - will get dominated, even with mega arduino.

fire - can apply great offensive pressure, and runs nice scarf users, so probably neutral.

water - can hope for scald burns, but if on psychic teams, the burn will be healed. other than that, the offensive pressure gets too much for water. slowbro gets deck'd by knock off

electric - deck'd. can have rotom-w as a check assuming its at full health, lanturn with twave, but again, if these mons arent at full health, its over. fighting will never allow that and psychic can stall it out.

grass - can hope for skymin hax. not good enough reasoning though

ice - can apply heavy damage with kyurem-w draco or ice punch weavile. but drain punch will give back a lot of hp. so ice will struggle heavily.

fighting - neutral.

poison - if(psycho cut) { deck'd; }

ground - hippo can check for so long, and sand rush excadrill can hope for iron head flinches or ko with earthquake if gallade is damaged. would be a bit of a struggle

flying - skarmory can hold it off until it sd's and ruins everything with ice punch. zard mega x can be bulky and WoW but if its +2, don't think it'd survive.

psychic - whoever +2's with gallade first and shadow sneak/knock off spams.

bug - mega pinsir is tanned but its outsped, so need to make sure mega gallade is weakened before quick attacking. probably neutral matchup

rock - rof

ghost - knock off spam, sneak spam, though aegislash and mega sableye can probably hold its own and support the team well.

dragon - offensive usually, so classic outrage spam would probably be fine, but its a poor playstyle in other scenarios.

dark - reliant on mega sableye and greninja to hold off and revenge kill respectively. not good enough as mega gallade can sub/sd/bulk up

steel - overwhelming pressure. if skarmory is gone, gonna have a hard time.

fairy - clefable is a great wall, as is prankster klefki t-wave to cripple it. fairy could hold its own i believe

Just a quick analysis on how teams match against this powerful mega in my opinion and experiences, so share your thoughts on that for the community to read and think about. Having said all of that, I am supportive of a global ban for Galladite, though I want to hear what the community has to say. Also, please note anyone can talk and vent their thoughts here. You don't need an invitation to post here, as someone above implied.

Well, no doubt about normal getting rekt'd, but for Mega Llade its set is a given SD/bulk up,<fighting STAB>, <psychic STAB>, and a cover move Knock off, Shadow Sneak, or Ice Punch... In sheer power it's op af and like Nani said its natural bulk is scary. Ghosts and Fairies stand a fighting chance, but sadly out types will struggle something fierce.

 

[Aquaslash]

I would have supported a type ban on Mawile. In fact, I THOUGHT that's what we had, but oh well.

At any rate, if you find Mawile to be too much, then there is zero excuse for keeping Gallade, especially on psychic. With psychic, he gets the luxury of support from the deos for setting hazards, the latis for removing them, Cresselia for general annoyance and a second chance to sweep, Celebi to baton pass so he doesn't even need to SD, Jirachi to wreck fairies and on top of all of that, he's got allies in Meloetta, Medicham, Gardevoir, Slowbro, and most of all, my nigga Victini.

Wow, psychic is kinda op now that I think of it. Dark cant do diddly anymore cause most of them have a fairy move now

Edit: oh damn he's got Megatron for backup too. Good god, that boy is set!

 

[ArVaDa-]

The reason posts are coming about how desperate fairy is for mawile is because everyone is testing teams to prepare for the apocalypse of steel (i was wondering too because I was like where were you guys a page or 2 ago?), just roll with it lol, eventually there will be discussion on whether or not monotypes should be able to beat all teams within 6 pokes and complex bans ect. Nani Man please tag me if I do something wrong, I'd prefer to be corrected and not do it again versus not reading your post and getting beat up later on for being an elitist noob XD, if you were refering to me.

 

[Sae]

I understand the distress of the Mawilite ban for Fairy teams, but you will have to adapt and change the standard team style of "set screens and spam sucker" with Fairy teams, as it was honestly getting overwhelming for most teams, and took little to no effort in doing so. This will now force different antics and I hope to see Mega Diancie in action, with its massive offensive powers and nice physical rock STAB. It's too early to draw conclusions yet, as the bans are not even live on the server yet, so until then, we need to wait and see how it pans out for Fairy. Just as a side note and confidence booster, one of the highest ranked fairy users on the ladder does not even use Mega Mawile, so don't think losing that means Fairy is now trash, because it definitely is not.

Okay to clear up a mis-communication I had, I did some research on Noah's replays. Reason I brought up Noah originally was because the only reason he stood out to me was when he laddered and used Mega Gardevoir. I know he mained his Mega Mawile team, but after talking to Kaiser he told me that it was a dual mega team. The thing is though, while digging up the replays, either Noah had two teams or he switched items because the more famous team (hence the miscommunication) was the Mega Mawile team but he also ran a Scarf Gardevoir.

Reason why this got confused in terms of the community was that most people remember the Mega Mawile team as the main focus. Nobody saved replays (or at least I couldn't find any while doing my research) of his dual mega team cause all I kept seeing were people saving replays of him either choking or with a narrow win (and all of these were with the Scarf Gardevoir team).

Not too sure, but I think Noah didn't use Mega Maw

Anttya's short comment perfectly highlights this. Some people still remember losing/winning to Mega Gardevoir (honestly that was like the only time I ever lost to Noah), but the dual mega story seems to hold up to most people. Honestly though I still don't remember him using Mawile whenever he faced my Water team, but then again why would I be afraid of that when there's MegaVoir which completely wrecks the water core. Honestly wish people actually saved some replays so I could have more conclusive evidence (including myself but back then I didn't really care for it and I blame Pokemon Online for that).

My apologies to the community and Nani Man for this miscommunication (I mean really who actually expects Dual Megas especially after I've seen his team with a Scarf Gardevoir before cause it makes it seem like a whole new team by itself). Does this still change the fact that Mega Mawile is broken? No (probably helps enforce it), but does this make fairy users claims about needing it even more legitimate, probably yes. Do I think we should unban it on Fairy? Wasn't that the whole point of placing it back into Mono and then retesting if it was broken? Eh I'm actually kind of biased about fairies cause I used to run them so I'm not gonna say yay or nay about if Fairy users need it. In all honesty, it's just a chance for me to find some sort of niche team cause generic cores are kind of boring (props to ArVaDa- cause that Flying team is probably the most interesting one I've seen in like forever).

In other news,

I'm pretty sure most of the discussion already recognizes Mega Gallade as a problem on Psychic and to some extent Mega Medicham, but just for those who may want one of them around for at least Fighting teams, I'm surprised you guys aren't saying much. If the whole Mega Mawile thing was major for fairy, what would happen to say Fighting types if they lost both Mega Gallade and Mega Medi. Not saying that it will, or if it's that broken on Fighting as compared to bulk Psychic but you know so this issue won't be left to like the last minute. Fighting's only other mega is Mega Heracross and I'm pretty sure most people find it lackluster to the other two.

Anything else I should say? Nah I'd rather hear some discussion about Mega Gallade/Medi on Fighting teams and whether or not they're broken on that type cause like everyone is talking about the obvious Psychic, but let's be real: after this whole Mawile fiasco I'm betting the more important discussion is going to be about Fighting teams. The exact same effect of steel and fairy but this time psychic and fighting.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I understand the distress of the Mawilite ban for Fairy teams, but you will have to adapt and change the standard team style of "set screens and spam sucker" with Fairy teams, as it was honestly getting overwhelming for most teams, and took little to no effort in doing so. This will now force different antics and I hope to see Mega Diancie in action, with its massive offensive powers and nice physical rock STAB. It's too early to draw conclusions yet, as the bans are not even live on the server yet, so until then, we need to wait and see how it pans out for Fairy. Just as a side note and confidence booster, one of the highest ranked fairy users on the ladder does not even use Mega Mawile, so don't think losing that means Fairy is now trash, because it definitely is not.

Anyway, I want to talk about Galladite in this post. Mega Gallade is probably even worse than Mega Medicham, due to its bulk and dirty Bulk Up Drain Punch sets that some carry. This is totally devastating to every normal team and most steel teams. Some run just an offensive SD variant, which is probably more destructive. Mega Gallade, just like Mega Mawile, needs to set one SD and the pressure is on. Unless you have a physical scarfer (assuming it is at full health and can survive a +2 shadow sneak), most will fall to a +2 CC or Drain Punch. Taking a look on how teams manage against Mega Gallade:

normal - will get dominated, even with mega arduino.

fire - can apply great offensive pressure, and runs nice scarf users, so probably neutral.

water - can hope for scald burns, but if on psychic teams, the burn will be healed. other than that, the offensive pressure gets too much for water. slowbro gets deck'd by knock off

electric - deck'd. can have rotom-w as a check assuming its at full health, lanturn with twave, but again, if these mons arent at full health, its over. fighting will never allow that and psychic can stall it out.

grass - can hope for skymin hax. not good enough reasoning though

ice - can apply heavy damage with kyurem-w draco or ice punch weavile. but drain punch will give back a lot of hp. so ice will struggle heavily.

fighting - neutral.

poison - if(psycho cut) { deck'd; }

ground - hippo can check for so long, and sand rush excadrill can hope for iron head flinches or ko with earthquake if gallade is damaged. would be a bit of a struggle

flying - skarmory can hold it off until it sd's and ruins everything with ice punch. zard mega x can be bulky and WoW but if its +2, don't think it'd survive.

psychic - whoever +2's with gallade first and shadow sneak/knock off spams.

bug - mega pinsir is tanned but its outsped, so need to make sure mega gallade is weakened before quick attacking. probably neutral matchup

rock - rof

ghost - knock off spam, sneak spam, though aegislash and mega sableye can probably hold its own and support the team well.

dragon - offensive usually, so classic outrage spam would probably be fine, but its a poor playstyle in other scenarios.

dark - reliant on mega sableye and greninja to hold off and revenge kill respectively. not good enough as mega gallade can sub/sd/bulk up

steel - overwhelming pressure. if skarmory is gone, gonna have a hard time.

fairy - clefable is a great wall, as is prankster klefki t-wave to cripple it. fairy could hold its own i believe

Just a quick analysis on how teams match against this powerful mega in my opinion and experiences, so share your thoughts on that for the community to read and think about. Having said all of that, I am supportive of a global ban for Galladite, though I want to hear what the community has to say. Also, please note anyone can talk and vent their thoughts here. You don't need an invitation to post here, as someone above implied.

Skymin, Jirachi, Togekiss, and Excadrill can't rely on flinchax to win, because Mega Gallade gets Inner Focus--meaning it can't flinch. So grass is sorta screwed, and ground just has to pound it to death, and get residual/chip damage in with sandstorm/hazards/toxic on the switch from Gastrodon. I agree though. Other than Fairy and to an extent ghost, most types can't counter it.