Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

[DoW]

Here's a game of Barida playing using Leftovers Toed Swift Swim. While he won, I think that had the opposing player played better it would have been far closer. That said, his opponent was using Megazard Y which is one of the better SS counters around so I'm not sure how much this replay tells us. However I do think that the lack of 8-turn rain was noticable for Barida's team as he had to be more careful with Toed (not sacking it at the end). However I'm not sure if a Damp Rock + SS ban would be enough of a nerf. We wouldn't want another Baton Pass situation where the same thing has to be nerfed multiple times I think.

Anyway, the replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-oumonotype-736737

 

[inscribe]

However I'm not sure if a Damp Rock + SS ban would be enough of a nerf. We wouldn't want another Baton Pass situation where the same thing has to be nerfed multiple times I think.

I completely agree. The banning of Damp Rock is just simply bazaar! As Articuno I proved, even five turns of Rain is enough to annihilate a well-rounded type like Flying. Even if five turns of Rain doesn't suffice to be useful in high-level play, the banning of Damp Rock nerfs any type of rain that anyone wishes to use! damp rock rain dance thundurus op ban now??? Banning Damp Rock makes no sense, as it discourages any Rain Dance stratagies that, of course, aren't overpowered, like running Damp Rock Rain Dance Ludicolo on a Grass Team.

Now, now. Let's talk about what better bans that are possible. Banning Drizzle+Swift Swim is the most sensible, as it halts what it needs to, and nothing more.
Of course, there are other options! But I believe that a Drizzle+Swift Swim ban is the best possible ban proposal, even if we resort to complex bans.
>banning swift swim on water mono
>nerfs manual rain
Of course, this is all my opinion, but banning Damp Rock really makes no sense.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Why is SS being compared to Baton Piss

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Talonflame was not banned due to its autowin vs certain types. It was banned due to the high amount of water teams, and it's ability to take out grass teams well. A talonflame ban was one of the ways used to encourage the development of more grass teams, which by theory, should also decrease the usage of water teams.

This maneuver was proven mostly successful, as we can see grass teams around in monotype more frequent than they did before.

The aim of the Talonflame Ban was primarily to encourage the use of "other Types", I.e. Bug, Fighting, and the one you mentioned, not to nerf or discourage the use of a certain Type. That's not the point of a Banlist. The point is to promote the use of all Types, whether they may be considered "OP" or not. This logic extends to play-styles as well. That is the reason SS is argued for a Ban, because it is believed to give HO an unfair advantage that decreases their Usage.

Just a nit-pick

 

[Nani Man]

Thinking about the post hollywood made in which damp rock manual drizzle would still be powerful, I do agree with that. However, it would be less powerful than it is right now and does leave you open as you are wasting a turn and a moveslot. also, most people that would do this would usually run rain dance on frail pokemon, leaving you to get attacked/setup on/countered. i've seen some interesting teams that utilize the damp rock such as dragon, grass and electric and it would be a shame to see viability on those playstyles in those particular types be effected just because of ssdrizzle teams. i'm still firm on banning ssdrizzle if used in conjunction with each other. also its 4;30am as im writing this so excuse if i've missed something rof

 

[Thimo]

Flechind should be banned, it wrecked my bug team like talonflame back in the day, but back then i was prepared of it, but seriously, it has same sweeping potential as talonflame

 

[Anttya]

Flechind should be banned, it wrecked my bug team like talonflame back in the day, but back then i was prepared of it, but seriously, it has same sweeping potential as talonflame

Really? I'm 90% sure Fletchinder can't learn Flame Blitz, so wouldn't Armaldo, Forretress, Scizor and the rest wall it? Also, not a lot of people run Fletchinder since there are better options.

 

[Zewwok]

The worst fletchinder is going to do to the bug/steels is Overheat, and even then, it can't touch the bug/rocks. Plus it makes talonflame look bulky. The most threatening set it has is probably a SD LO one, and it is not going to be sticking round for long with that kind of passive damage.

 

[Arjunb]

Flechind should be banned, it wrecked my bug team like talonflame back in the day, but back then i was prepared of it, but seriously, it has same sweeping potential as talonflame

Well i dont actually think that, Fletchinder can really trouble a grass or bug team . Yeah it got the same as a talon, but still its kinda weaker and does not get flare blitz too.

 

[Nochman.EXE]

Flechind should be banned, it wrecked my bug team like talonflame back in the day, but back then i was prepared of it, but seriously, it has same sweeping potential as talonflame

^Guys he's obviously sarcastically trolling lol

Dpnt take the bait

 

[Procne]

Thinking about the post hollywood made in which damp rock manual drizzle would still be powerful, I do agree with that. However, it would be less powerful than it is right now and does leave you open as you are wasting a turn and a moveslot. also, most people that would do this would usually run rain dance on frail pokemon, leaving you to get attacked/setup on/countered. i've seen some interesting teams that utilize the damp rock such as dragon, grass and electric and it would be a shame to see viability on those playstyles in those particular types be effected just because of ssdrizzle teams. i'm still firm on banning ssdrizzle if used in conjunction with each other. also its 4;30am as im writing this so excuse if i've missed something rof

My dragons thank you, Nani! :')
Seriously though, if Damp Rock were banned all together, would it not actually take away from the already short list of creative play styles? For example, any bulky user of Hydration or Rain Dish would be severely nerfed.

 

[inscribe]

Honestly, there's been no serious post that gives us a reason to ban Damp Rock. The ones that are semi-serious go over that Manual Rain is nearly as powerful as Drizzle Swim, (which it isn't), or don't even mention the fact that you're nerfing Procne 's Rain Dance Kingdra, or someone's Rain Dance Volbeat for no apparent reason. If you really want to ban Damp Rock, give us a reason that outweighs the fact that everyone that uses Rain Dance to aid their team in a non-broken way is going to be severely nerfed. Now, I'm not going to talk about this anymore because I'm basically squawking the same things to get this through people's heads!

 

[Zar]

Honestly, there's been no serious post that gives us a reason to ban Damp Rock. The ones that are semi-serious go over that Manual Rain is nearly as powerful as Drizzle Swim, (which it isn't), or don't even mention the fact that you're nerfing Procne 's Rain Dance Kingdra, or someone's Rain Dance Volbeat for no apparent reason. If you really want to ban Damp Rock, give us a reason that outweighs the fact that everyone that uses Rain Dance to aid their team in a non-broken way is going to be severely nerfed. Now, I'm not going to talk about this anymore because I'm basically squawking the same things to get this through people's heads!

yep exactly

 

[EmilyBay]

Has this thread still not got past swift swim? Its able to be got around but its also incredibly difficult to be gotten around. Its Gen 5 weather wars again with Fire vs SS water

 

[inscribe]

This thread is never going to get past Swift Swim until Hollywood decides on a ban or begins a voting thread (which I highly doubt since that hasn't happened before). So I hope a decision is made soon, but honestly, Swift Swim is so old I give zero fucks about it anymore, but of course it is still pretty broken.

 

[EmilyBay]

This thread is never going to get past Swift Swim until Hollywood decides on a ban or begins a voting thread (which I highly doubt since that hasn't happened before). So I hope a decision is made soon, but honestly, Swift Swim is so old I give zero fucks about it anymore, but of course it is still pretty broken.

Its true Hollywood needs to do something or Give someone else the right to do it.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Yea I don't understand what's the hold up. This is taking a lot longer than it should have

 

[EmilyBay]

It really is they decided to ban Talonflame quick enough so whats the hold up.

 

[Beta.]

It really is they decided to ban Talonflame quick enough so whats the hold up.

I suspect that Nani and Treecko are busy with other shit. I presume Treecko with OM stuff, and Nani with the monotype monthly tournament. The suspect or decision will come soon, yet not soon enough, if that makes sense.

 

[ArthurZH]

.....So what's going to happen to the SS Drizzle + Damp Rock? Are we waiting for Hollywood?

Btw hihi, I'm new to the forums, don't murder me please ;-;

 

[EmilyBay]

.....So what's going to happen to the SS Drizzle + Damp Rock? Are we waiting for Hollywood?

Btw hihi, I'm new to the forums, don't murder me please ;-;

I wont I promise and yea Hollywood is who we are waiting on.

 

[Zar]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-148455386

This replay is living proof that SS needs to be banned.The user used a LVL.1 Corsola,LVL.1 Tirtouga, LVL.2 Relicanth and Kabutops,Kingdra,Ludicolo being lvl 100.He beat a generic Flying team with that team.

 

[inscribe]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-148455386 Why isn't Swift Swim banned yet? I beat a GENERIC Flying-Monotype with some random Swift Swim team that had 2 NUs AND an LC, with 3 Swift Swim sweepers. Honestly, Swift Swim is getting neglected.. and in conjunction, so is this thread. This thread and Swift Swim needs some attention because all discussion that this thread once had has died down and has been forgotten in the sands of time. I beg of someone with enough authority to help out this dead thread to make a decision already... Or we can allow one of the only important threads Monotype has to die. This needs some attention. Like, right now.

 

[EmilyBay]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oumonotype-148455386 Why isn't Swift Swim banned yet? I beat a GENERIC Flying-Monotype with some random Swift Swim team that had 2 NUs AND an LC, with 3 Swift Swim sweepers. Honestly, Swift Swim is getting neglected.. and in conjunction, so is this thread. This thread and Swift Swim needs some attention because all discussion that this thread once had has died down and has been forgotten in the sands of time. I beg of someone with enough authority to help out this dead thread to make a decision already... Or we can allow one of the only important threads Monotype has to die. This needs some attention. Like, right now.

this right here is true Hollywood will not do anything at least give us a council or something

 

[EV]

this right here is true Hollywood will not do anything at least give us a council or something

First of all, if you need someone's attention, I would recommend tagging them so they see the thread in question. @ followed by their username will accomplish this. This isn't just for EmilyBay but everyone else posting here lately.

That being said, it also helps to see when the last time said user was online. In this case, Hollywood hasn't been here for about a week, so it's safe to say he hasn't seen any recent calls for a SS ban and everyone's complaining is accomplishing nothing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is please be patient. :) He'll get to it when he gets to it.