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Moody

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The problem is that Inconsistent teams seem to need an over involvement of counters to stop and even then can still potentially screw you over somewhat consistently regardless. When pathetic things like a Bidoof (a bidoof???) 6-0 an OU team, the ability is BROKEN. If something like this can't be considered for banning, we might as well call Arceus and Kyogre OU since they can be "countered" with the right Pokemon after all. After all, Swords Dance Arceus will be walled endlessly by Skarmory and Kyogre has only average speed.

Just because it has counters does not mean it is not utterly broken. By the logic used to accept weird things like "it has a counter, it is totally okay!" even though 90+% of the players despise it, the only way to justifiably ban something without a doubt now is to have like 150 in all stats (cause 120 stats are totally average!) and the ability to do everything and Magic Mirror or something. Cause that seems to be what it takes (a little exaggeration but it is really hard to convince some people of obviously broken things, like the people who call for things like Lugia and Ho-Oh in OU).

Haze: Use every other turn or else it will start being problematic again. Resorting to Slaking (Truant) now? Most Haze users aren't that great or will be worn down eventually.

Perish Song: This only forces them out. The useable number of Pokemon that can do this are pretty small and are usually off better doing other things. And devoting multiple slots to things like Murkrow clearly is problematic. Since Inconsistent Pokemon have a team, all they have to do is wate to Perish Songer is dead. Especially fun to use Shadow Tag to trap the Perish Songer in and watch it die (Wob).

Foresight and such moves: Evasion clause and for the most part aren't great. Waste of moveslot in almost all cases.

Roar/Whirlwind: Can miss and evasion has a thing of making them miss. Especially Dragon Tail which will be walled by Substitute. Ingrain Passing from Smeargle.

Toxic Spikes: Poison Pokemon and Rapid Spin.

Clear Smog: Small restricted list of users and the Shroom is the best user. Has to beware of boosted moves like Flamethrower (+2 Octillery almost ohkoes max hp 128 SDef Calm Nature and will with Stealth Rock) and Ice Breath if they get the attack boosts.

Unaware: Most of the users suck. Quagsire would rather have Water Absorb, Clefable dies to Toxic now without Magic Guard and isn't all that great now without it, and Bibarel lol matching but you'd rather have Bibarel be Simple or Inconsistent if you're using it.

And INCONSISTENT POKEMON ARE NOT ALONE. They have a team of 5 others to help and when 1 Inconsistent Pokemon forces measures to uses multiple cruddy Pokemon or moves that have no other purpose, they already have the advantage! That is enough to justify a ban, especially when it is a +2 boost every turn, free without needing to use a dang move other than Protection! Accupressure is not broken because it takes a move, has limited users, and most of the time will not give the right boost but when you have every free turn to get boosts, it is BROKEN. And it isn't just +1, it is +2! What were the game makers thinking? (No one ever knows, they make the most bizzare decisions regarding certain Pokes like making some ridiculous and some completely useless.) Sure every now and then, it will backfire, but more often than not, it will give enough of an advantage to completely destroy the opponent or exhaust them the rest can.

And Smeargle getting it and Baton Pass? Seriously? That is just cruel.
I think it is time for an ability clause, after all, we have move, evasion, sleep, pokemon, ohko, etc clauses and ban uber Pokemon. And Inconsistent is an uber ability when it turns sucky Pokemon like Bibarel, Octillery, and Glalie, into monsters that can wreck things that should have won.

And it isn't just evasion that should be worried about. If it gets the defense boosting, they will get tough to beat by attack and attack boosts are troublesome as it can deal some heavy damage to all the Haze/Roar/Smog Users and multiple boosted moves will take them out and that would leave nothing to stop the Inconsistent users.
 
the reason inconsistent is far from broken is because some of the shittiest pokemon in the game have it. While each pokemon has its admittedly nice attributes (Bibarel has near-perfect coverage, Octillery has good attacking stats, Glalie is well rounded (get the pun), and Smeargle can BP), each is quite frail and slow (yes glalie's 80 base is not very great). If you can get them out of the way quickly with something that takes shit from their moves (for example, iron head bronzong vs. glalie or... pretty much any electric type vs. octillery) then it's not too bad.
 
Why does the Shroom have to worry about boosted Flamethrower? It. is. removing. the. boosts.

And where do you draw the line? Is Ditto not a sucky pokémon that has turned into a monster with its new ability? Should we ban Drizzle Politoed?

And why do people keep saying that Gengar makes a poor user of Clear Smog, anyway? I mean, his defenses aren't great, but his Special Defense is better than his Defense, which Inconsistent Users mainly attack, he's faster than any of them (which means hitting them before they can Substitute), and he's got a high Special attack (to take them down faster)

Hey, maybe just give Snorlax Little By Little.
 
While it's broken, Inconsistent has an easy counter.

Antagonist.

While only a few Pokemon have it, its usefulness will make the Pokemon more common. Antagonist Jalorda with Leaf Storm is like a gift from heaven, and Antagonist Shuckle is all that harder to set up on.

I can also see Rain Dance + Thunder sets being more common now.
 
Why does the Shroom have to worry about boosted Flamethrower? It. is. removing. the. boosts.

And where do you draw the line? Is Ditto not a sucky pokémon that has turned into a monster with its new ability? Should we ban Drizzle Politoed?

Assuming it switched in and Inconsistent happened to give a +2 SAtk boost at that moment. And it still gets 2 hit koed with spikes/stealth rock and switching in should Octillery have Flamethrower to roast it with. Most don't but you never know.

Because most Ditto are stupid and run Choice Scarf which really limits their choices, especially when it gets predicatable and knowing what you can switch in (if you have anything, if you don't, Ditto will sweep you) to block your copied Pokemon. Anything that resists it's own moves will make Ditto useless because then it get's locked in and Ditto gets predictable and you switch on immunity. Any free turn given to Inconsistent can be deadly.

And if the Inconsistent user happens to get lucky, those "counters" are going to have a real tough going like Electric users vrs Octillery with +2 Evasion and +2 in Def Stat (whatever same side spectrum) and what not. Plus, they're not going to be able to have those phazing moves then and if it gets those ridiculous boosts that make it indestructible, you've lost.

Like the horror stories of Zapdos being set up on by Octillery because it could never hit, Octillery beating +6 Calm Mind Latis because it couldn't hit, Octillery sweeping teams with STRUGGLE. What exactly is Suicune going to do against Energy Ball (over Flamethrower/Toxic)? Roar had a bad habit of missing.

Because it is a broken ability and Ditto can't copy Substitute (which makes it bad against Inconsistent in addition if they have sub up).

And because we know that other than Inconsistent, banning other abilities will go nowhere because other players like you are watching for abuses of power like that and that while weather is quite broken as well, they can somewhat counter each other to extent, makes it not necessary for the good team. But when an ability breaks the rules, far beyond what even the creators intended, you know it is time to ban the sucker. And it isn't like banning Pokemon (which some Pokemon deserve to be banned from standard play, these don't), it is banning an ability when those Pokemon have other actual useful abilities as well so they won't be inadvertently be banned if one is worried about that.

The ability itself is broken. Whether or not you're prepared for it does not mean it isn't still broken when it comes down to timing and luck and more often, the player who took the Inconsistent Gamble would win that bout with that opportunity. And most players consider it a hazard against fun, when most people hate it and want to see it go, with legitimate reasons like Garchomp and Salamence last gen (and Salamence took forever!), it is time to go because there is something wrong with it when so many people would complain about something that "oh it has counters! It's all good!" starts to lose hold. Just because it can doesn't mean it is fun or easy to stop. Even people who Inconsistent wouldn't really work against (more likely because the Inconsisent players they played sucked or had horrible luck than that it is easy to counter, because how can you counter something that comes down to luck?) see the reasons why this ability is bloody dangerous.

And it is not fun Inconsistent vrs. Inconsistent or just facing Inconsistent. It isn't. While the game does not necessarily have to be fun (if you want to win), needing to do the same exact things as everyone else begins to ruin Pokemon so this ability should be banned on those principles.
 
Because Octillery outspeeds. Therefore, it does not remove the boosts until after it's eaten a boosted ice beam/flamethrower.

Eccentric Ditto has not been released yet.

Drizzle is a suspect ability (or at least it should/will be, once we get this hax based shit out of the way).

Maybe becuase they, and any other pokes he tries to phaze, don't need boosted attacks to seriously damage Gengar?
 
While it's broken, Inconsistent has an easy counter.

Antagonist.

While only a few Pokemon have it, its usefulness will make the Pokemon more common. Antagonist Jalorda with Leaf Storm is like a gift from heaven, and Antagonist Shuckle is all that harder to set up on.

I'm not sure but I think it only reverses the stat changes on the user itself, not all stat changes. So I don't think that would work but again, not sure if it only affects the Perversity user itself or the entire field. If it does happen to work like that, that would be really cool. But I don't think so.
 
I'm not sure but I think it only reverses the stat changes on the user itself, not all stat changes. So I don't think that would work but again, not sure if it only affects the Perversity user itself or the entire field. If it does happen to work like that, that would be really cool. But I don't think so.

That I'm not sure of either. It's vague on who it specifically affects, which might translate to it affecting the whole field. Someone should try a Mud Slap Shuckle with Antagonist to see if it raises the opponent's accuracy.
 
I am fairly certain that it only affects itself, since a long time ago asked around about Jaroda as a Manaphy or setup counter to find that it doesn't work.
And I faced Jaroda before as well. The ability only affects the user. (+6 leaf Storm can't touch Octillery lol)
I also don't understand why people think normal stuff can counter these guys. Sub + Protect, especially if you have Ingrain or Aqua ring passed, is amazing. Normal electric mons can't counter Octillery like that. (And if they did, the rest of the team can handle it)
Edit: To the post below: I don't think L-b-L ignores evasion, since the accuracy is 100. I might be wrong. And anyways, for the most part, you can ppstall snorlax
 
Another thought: Snorlax. Simply take any of his usual movesets (curselax, Resttalk) and use Little By Little instead of Body Slam. He's got plenty of bulk to fight off Glalie/Octillery, especially when he's using Thick Fat, Rest removes any attempts at Toxic, and Little By Little gets STAB and blows past defense/Evasion boosts. And it's barely a change at all to how Snorlax is usually used.
 
It does. Read the Perversity thread! It was confirmed a little while ago that attacks like Shadow Ball, Mud Slap etc. and abilities like Intimidate have their effects reversed. But even if you use one of the Perversity Pokemon like Spinda or Jalorda, they will still get a +1 stat and may kill you or stall you out before you can do anything. It doesn't reverse already applied changes!
EDIT: While I was typing 2 more posts appeared! Sorry if it looks repeated!
 
Ban this. If double team is banned, why isn't inconsistent? Does everyone have to create their teams nowadays to counter inconsistent pokemon? It ruins the game, is completely luck, and is very frustrating/unfair.
 
It does. Read the Perversity thread! It was confirmed a little while ago that attacks like Shadow Ball, Mud Slap etc. and abilities like Intimidate have their effects reversed. But even if you use one of the Perversity Pokemon like Spinda or Jalorda, they will still get a +1 stat and may kill you or stall you out before you can do anything. It doesn't reverse already applied changes!
EDIT: While I was typing 2 more posts appeared! Sorry if it looks repeated!

As I stated before, only on the user.
 
Do people not have to prepare their teams for stuff like Stealth Rock? I've seen it near-universally regarded as a constant that you just have to deal with.

On the topic of Jaroda: I notice that he can take advantage of his high speed to use Gastro Acid.
 
guys, the best way to kill off inconsistent pokemon is to keep up the heat. They have shit defences switching in and try to keep it that way. Avoid using moves that just beg for them to come in; keep attacking. Run offense just like lots of teams were forced to when heracross was introduced to UU.
 
Stealth rock is entirely different. You can actually prepare for that easily, but it's hard to prepare for something that is completely random and different every time. Inconsistent also destroys a lot of offensive teams, because a lot of them don't carry a phazer. If Kyogre was allowed in OU, I'm sure people would have to "prepare their teams for it." That doesn't mean it should be allowed.

I faced a team earlier that had 4 pokemon with inconsistent. It wasn't even a pokemon battle, really. It was just a huge game of luck. I came to battle, not roll dice.

I wouldn't mind it that much if it didn't boost the evasion stat, but, well, it does. Evasion boosts have never been allowed in the past, so why allow them now? What was the evasion clause created for? You might as well bring back OHKO moves if this is going to be allowed.
 
Why does the Shroom have to worry about boosted Flamethrower? It. is. removing. the. boosts.

And where do you draw the line? Is Ditto not a sucky pokémon that has turned into a monster with its new ability? Should we ban Drizzle Politoed?

And why do people keep saying that Gengar makes a poor user of Clear Smog, anyway? I mean, his defenses aren't great, but his Special Defense is better than his Defense, which Inconsistent Users mainly attack, he's faster than any of them (which means hitting them before they can Substitute), and he's got a high Special attack (to take them down faster)

Hey, maybe just give Snorlax Little By Little.

Many of the arguments in this thread center around "ban this ability because it relegates battling to a simple game of dice" not "ban this ability because it makes previously awful Pokemon much less awful". The fact that Inconsistent does heavily depend on luck is indisputable, you cannot argue that. Whether this has a place in competitive battling is another story. Therefore, your examples are irrelevant. Ditto is especially irrelevant, it is a crappy Pokemon because it only has one ability and that's Limber. Until Nintendo decides to release Ditto in the Dream World, it has no place in nonDW-specific discussions.

Gengar is a poor user of Clear Smog for the same reason it is a poor user of Haze. I'm not sure if you realize, but it gets that as well and is much more reliable by virtue of hitting Steel types. Saying Gengar's special defense is higher than its defense is like saying Bellsprout has higher attack than special attack - it's so bad, and the difference is so negligible it often doesn't even matter. You're also wrong in that "Inconsistent users use mainly special attack". Bibarel and Glalie both often carry physical attacks. Gengar is far too frail to be effective with Clear Smog. 0 attack Bibarel's Waterfall will almost 2HKO on 0/0 Gengar with SR, and Octillery has a guaranteed 2HKO on you with no hazards. They can just switch out to Scizor or ScarfTyranitar and trap you and then go on with their antics.

This is next paragraph to no one specifically, but there are many poor arguments in this thread that come from people who clearly don't have an appreciable amount of experience either using or playing against Inconsistent. I've tested a Bibarel/Octillery team extensively and have formed my own opinions on it, but I've just been lurking in this thread and seeing bad arguments repeated over and over and it was starting to frustrate me :x

EDIT:

Also, analogies to Stealth Rock are also generally quite poor. The ONLY similarity is that they are both factors one has to keep in mind when building a team and during a match. The same is true for things like Scizor, Gyarados, Lucario, Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, Pursuit, Choice items, etc.
 
I'm not exactly sure whether it should be banned or not(haven't played with it or against it), but there are a few arguments that don't hold much weight:

1. Saying Inconsistent makes "sucky" pokemon broken- If you take other things away from other pokemon, they'd suck too. This isn't 4th gen anymore, you can't say a pokemon that was UU or NU last gen should be this gen. If you're afraid of change, continue playing 4th gen, everything that's sucky will be sucky just like it's supposed to and everything that's good will be good just like it's supposed to.

2. Saying a pokemon is better off doing something else- Apparently not if you need it as a counter to another pokemon. If a pokemon is better off doing something else, have it do something else! Telling people that a pokemon has better things to do is basically telling people you'd rather use that pokemon another way. I'd like a Hustle Delibird to be viable in OU but I'm not about to claim that everything that counters it in OU should be banned, just so I can use it. If you like the old metagame better, feel free to play 4th gen.

I don't know if this ability should be banned or not, perhaps it should. But it needs to run it's course in suspect and allow everyone ample opportunity to try out counters against it. Only then will people be informed enough to decide whether it needs to be banned or not.
 
Do people not have to prepare their teams for stuff like Stealth Rock? I've seen it near-universally regarded as a constant that you just have to deal with.
I've used teams with neither Stealth Rock nor Rapid Spin perfectly fine. Moderate damage on a switch is much easier to deal with than super-boosting. And it's the same thing every time. Inconsistent might give them speed/attack and get you swept right away, it might give defense and make them immortal, it might give evasion and make you ragequit from the hax. Or it might give them all of the above, if they stall for a while.
 
I wouldn't mind it that much if it didn't boost the evasion stat, but, well, it does. Evasion boosts have never been allowed in the past, so why allow them now? What was the evasion clause created for? You might as well bring back OHKO moves if this is going to be allowed.

I'm going to fly off the topic of Inconsistent for a moment. Please forgive me, and feel free to ignore this if you'd rather stay on-topic.

On the subject of Evasion...

Well, hell, I'm just going to come right out and say it this time. How many goddamned counters to evasion do they need to add to the game, huh? We've got three different moves, each one given to a completely different subset of 'mons, that eliminate every evasion boost, past and future, on the targeted 'mon. Those ones were introduced in the 3rd gen. We've got a metric ton of moves with perfect accuracy, including one with 90 power, which is considered useful on everything that can learn it. We have a move that sharply drops Evasion for 3 turns. We've got moves to eliminate all stat boosts, including one that has perfect accuracy and only harms the opponent! We've got moves that flat-out ignore Evasion boosts in every way! We have an Ability that makes all moves hit, given to a very powerful 'mon! We have two different moves that boost attack and accuracy at the same time, meaning that the Evasion user is the one fighting an uphill battle!

What else do you need?!
 
On the topic of Jaroda: I notice that he can take advantage of his high speed to use Gastro Acid.

Substitute?

Many of the arguments in this thread center around "ban this ability because it relegates battling to a simple game of dice" not "ban this ability because it makes previously awful Pokemon much less awful". The fact that Inconsistent does heavily depend on luck is indisputable, you cannot argue that. Whether this has a place in competitive battling is another story. Therefore, your examples are irrelevant. Ditto is especially irrelevant, it is a crappy Pokemon because it only has one ability and that's Limber. Until Nintendo decides to release Ditto in the Dream World, it has no place in nonDW-specific discussions.



This is next paragraph to no one specifically, but there are many poor arguments in this thread that come from people who clearly don't have an appreciable amount of experience either using or playing against Inconsistent. I've tested a Bibarel/Octillery team extensively and have formed my own opinions on it, but I've just been lurking in this thread and seeing bad arguments repeated over and over and it was starting to frustrate me :x
etc.
You offend me. =(
Care to provide your opinion, please? I'm curious.
 
Substitute?
The worst case scenario for Jaroda is that he has to switch in. Isn't the usual strategy for users of this Ability to spend their first turn with Protect, to get a guaranteed stat boost from Inconsistent before needing to use Substitute? Therefore, Jaroda switches in on the turn they try Protect, and throws Gastro Acid at them.

Only Glalie and Smeargle can outspeed Jalorda, and that's only if they have a double boost in Speed already (double is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for them to outspeed him).
 
Oh thanks! I'll just run sweet scent on my Venusaur and all my problems will be solved! He might get to set up his attack, speed, defense, special defense, and special attack all to +6, but at least he will have normal evasion!

Anyways, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there's this move called Taunt. It makes it so you can't Roar or Whirlwind or Haze pokemon. All of the perfect accuracy moves have the weakest power, so once you switch in your pokemon and wait a turn while it protects, it's defenses are most likely high enough so you can't even break it's substitutes.

Why don't we just bring Rayquaza back to OU because I can think of a few moves that can kill it.
 
The worst case scenario for Jaroda is that he has to switch in. Isn't the usual strategy for users of this Ability to spend their first turn with Protect, to get a guaranteed stat boost from Inconsistent before needing to use Substitute? Therefore, Jaroda switches in on the turn they try Protect, and throws Gastro Acid at them.

Only Glalie and Smeargle can outspeed Jalorda, and that's only if they have a double boost in Speed already (double is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for them to outspeed him).

Meh. I run a more unorthodox strategy, I guess, so I usually don't protect first unless I am really desperate. And besides, Jaroda has better things to do and run than try to Gastro Acid one pokemon. I suppose you can make a Gastro Acid argument, but overall IMO it seems rather lacking.
 
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