SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[Pikachu315111]

Equally, the "red chain" is a complete enigma other than the fact that we know it was extracted from the Lake Trio. And we don't even really know what it did to Palkia or Dialga other than enraging them. We know much less about it than the Blue or Red Orbs, for instance, so why exactly the box legends got enraged and out of control as a result of the Red Chain could easily be because of an influx of evolution energy, when they were already perfect beings, and this evolution energy was extracted from the Lake Trio somehow. It's the interpretation I always took based on what Rowan said.

We don't know enough to write off his research, basically, because a lot of DPPt lore is completely unexplained save for Rowan's interpretation.

That's a stretch. I would say disregard the comment about evolution energy, that's a false start, just a random musing from Rowan showing his interest in Pokemon Evolution. That's where it starts and ends.

Why the Red Chain worked on Dialga & Palkia and why in DP the Lake Trio was able to contain one of them (but in Platinum unable to contain both) more just has to do with mythology and possibly even some symbolism more than anything else. Let's keep in mind all five were created by Arceus for specific reasons: Dialga to flow time, Palkia to expand space, and the Lake Trio to gift living beings spiritual traits. The three had their own domains and likely an advantage in their domain if one was to cross over (or to be allowed to cross over). Cyrus used the Red Chain to drag/allow Dailga and/or Palkia from their domain into ours which is also the domain of the Lake Trio (we can call it the "Mortal Domain"). Now in DP, since it was only the one the Lake Trio were able to exert enough of their power over the Mortal Domain to counteract the one dragged over. However both Dialga and Palkia together were far too strong, which is sort of why Giratina had to jump in, it's another domain master so it gave the Lake Trio just enough push to force Dialga and Palkia back to their domains.
Now that was the mythological side of things, what about symbolism? The Lake Trio represent Emotion, Knowledge, and Willpower, in the Pokemon world the main three traits that makes up a being's spirit. Now obviously Dialga represents Time and Palkia represents Space, two of the most if not the most powerful universal forces. In DP, one of them was using this great power to destroy & possibly reshape the world and not a single being could stop it. However, the Lake Trio represent the entire embodiment and those three spirit traits, and those traits working together can maintain a control over one (you can't fight against time, but you can manage your time & make the most of it; you can't manipulate space, but you can figure out how much you have and plan how you can use the space you have). But in Platinum it shows even spirit has its limit and it can't overcome both these forces when they're working against you. But fear not, because you can't always have control and you just going to have to compromise with randomness/chaos to achieve at least your base goals. And that's what Giratina represents: Random/Chaos factor as it's a being of anti-matter which is completely unpredictable (or rather we as beings of matter can't accurately predict). In Platinum, Cyrus won. There was nothing the player could do to stop his plan, the player letting free the Lake Trio was not enough. No one was expecting Giratina to suddenly appear, most people didn't know it existed, and on top of that Giratina had to choose whether it would get involved or not. So many factors that were out of the player's hand, the player had to rely on a being which represented randomness/chaos to give them the edge excepting the consequences (which thankfully was just Cyrus being taken into its domain and the player having to calm Giratina down).

 

[Celever]

That's a stretch. I would say disregard the comment about evolution energy, that's a false start, just a random musing from Rowan showing his interest in Pokemon Evolution. That's where it starts and ends.

Why the Red Chain worked on Dialga & Palkia and why in DP the Lake Trio was able to contain one of them (but in Platinum unable to contain both) more just has to do with mythology and possibly even some symbolism more than anything else. Let's keep in mind all five were created by Arceus for specific reasons: Dialga to flow time, Palkia to expand space, and the Lake Trio to gift living beings spiritual traits. The three had their own domains and likely an advantage in their domain if one was to cross over (or to be allowed to cross over). Cyrus used the Red Chain to drag/allow Dailga and/or Palkia from their domain into ours which is also the domain of the Lake Trio (we can call it the "Mortal Domain"). Now in DP, since it was only the one the Lake Trio were able to exert enough of their power over the Mortal Domain to counteract the one dragged over. However both Dialga and Palkia together were far too strong, which is sort of why Giratina had to jump in, it's another domain master so it gave the Lake Trio just enough push to force Dialga and Palkia back to their domains.
Now that was the mythological side of things, what about symbolism? The Lake Trio represent Emotion, Knowledge, and Willpower, in the Pokemon world the main three traits that makes up a being's spirit. Now obviously Dialga represents Time and Palkia represents Space, two of the most if not the most powerful universal forces. In DP, one of them was using this great power to destroy & possibly reshape the world and not a single being could stop it. However, the Lake Trio represent the entire embodiment and those three spirit traits, and those traits working together can maintain a control over one (you can't fight against time, but you can manage your time & make the most of it; you can't manipulate space, but you can figure out how much you have and plan how you can use the space you have). But in Platinum it shows even spirit has its limit and it can't overcome both these forces when they're working against you. But fear not, because you can't always have control and you just going to have to compromise with randomness/chaos to achieve at least your base goals. And that's what Giratina represents: Random/Chaos factor as it's a being of anti-matter which is completely unpredictable (or rather we as beings of matter can't accurately predict). In Platinum, Cyrus won. There was nothing the player could do to stop his plan, the player letting free the Lake Trio was not enough. No one was expecting Giratina to suddenly appear, most people didn't know it existed, and on top of that Giratina had to choose whether it would get involved or not. So many factors that were out of the player's hand, the player had to rely on a being which represented randomness/chaos to give them the edge excepting the consequences (which thankfully was just Cyrus being taken into its domain and the player having to calm Giratina down).

Can it not be both, though? The symbolism works in a meta sense for players, while the evolution energy is the in-game explanation. Barry isn't chilling at Mt. Coronet going "wow, this is some wild symbolism" while a portal to the Distortion World opens up in front of him.

Let's consider the Lake Trio. Emotion, Knowledge, and Willpower, and how this can connect to evolution energy.

• Pokémon with particularly close emotional bonds toward their trainers can evolve as a result of it (happiness evolutions such as Buneary)
• Pokémon who learn a particular move can use that knowledge to evolve (such as Aipom and Yanma)
• Pokémon who are about to undergo evolution via another means can use willpower to stop the process (pressing B on the evolution screen, this process is shown in the anime but I don't believe is stated to be willpower in-game)

Clearly this doesn't explain every form of evolution, since the levelling system is fairly abstract and symbolic in its own right. Arguably, however, you could also tie it into knowledge, as you learn moves at particular levels and so levelling up involves developing knowledge of some description. Either way, the powers that the Lake Trio have are connected to evolution to some extent, and I feel it makes far more sense to consider what Rowan said instead of disregarding it as the ramblings of an old man. After all, as pointed out, it's brought up twice in the game; in the Tag Battle in Jubilife's northern exit, and again in Canalave Library which is right before you go to try and rescue the Lake Trio. It's a completely established part of Sinnoh's lore that evolution energy and the Lake Trio are connected. Not least because Gen IV included examples of all of the above -- it was the game to introduce move-based evolutions, introduced new happiness evolutions including the first that wasn't cross-gen (the aforementioned Buneary), and was the first instance of a Pokémon refusing to evolve through willpower in the anime (Dawn's Piplup). In fact, you could go so far as to say that this was their attempt at explaining why so many older Pokémon can suddenly evolve in Sinnoh when they couldn't before -- exposure to the Lake Trio.

A shame, considering Gen 4 is widely acknowledged as the generation with the most/most detailed lore.

Also, Rowan knew of Phione and Manaphy. Couldn't they be considered as Legendaries (Mythical, technically) that evolve?

Phione doesn't evolve into Manaphy, it just comes from a Manaphy egg. The entire relationship is pretty enigmatic in its own right, but considering Phione cannot evolve into Manaphy it's a leap in logic to call it a pre-evolution of Manaphy.

 

[TMan87]

I knew there was something about Phione and Manaphy that I forgot. Guess that was it. Feel free to disregard my previous post then.

However, as far as I know, this leads to another mystery in the wide world of Pokémon: to this day, Phione is the only Pokémon that cannot evolve into the Pokémon that laid it as an Egg (bar split evolutions like Wurmple & Combee).
Why is that? Why is it that Phione can never evolve, yet Manaphy can give birth to a hundred Phiones? And where do Manaphy come from, if their offspring cannot achieve a Manaphy state?

 

[Celever]

I knew there was something about Phione and Manaphy that I forgot. Guess that was it. Feel free to disregard my previous post then.

However, as far as I know, this leads to another mystery in the wide world of Pokémon: to this day, Phione is the only Pokémon that cannot evolve into the Pokémon that laid it as an Egg (bar split evolutions like Wurmple & Combee).
Why is that? Why is it that Phione can never evolve, yet Manaphy can give birth to a hundred Phiones? And where do Manaphy come from, if their offspring cannot achieve a Manaphy state?

There is another instance, which is that Volbeat and Illumise can rarely breed to create the other one. There are a couple of egg moves which can only be obtained by breeding a Volbeat and hatching an Illumise or vice versa, for uhhh some reason.

Regarding Manaphy and Phione, it's completely unexplained. The only difference between them is that Manaphy learns a couple of signature moves like Tail Glow and Heart Swap which Phione doesn't and, according to the PokéDex, Manaphy is born on a "cold ocean floor", while Phione is born in "warm seas". Notably, the only way to obtain a Manaphy is from its own egg, just that this egg is transferred from Pokémon Ranger and if bred in the main series of games will always produce a Phione. So Manaphy can create Manaphy eggs (or, I guess, another thing can, but Manaphy do come from eggs at the very least) but only under certain circumstances, which no region in the core series can fulfill.

It seems like Phione is just a Manaphy born without the "wondrous power that permits it to bond with any kind of Pokémon", which the Dex makes sure to mention "it starts life with" and isn't developed. So something on a cold ocean floor gives a Manaphy the power to create new Manaphy with this power, which other environments cannot.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Can it not be both, though?

At this point let's just agree to disagree. I do not see where the "evolution energy" thing comes into play, it's just something Rowan said to showcase his interest in Pokemon Evolution, at most an excuse to get the player to seek out the Lake Trio so the plot can progress.

Why is that? Why is it that Phione can never evolve, yet Manaphy can give birth to a hundred Phiones? And where do Manaphy come from, if their offspring cannot achieve a Manaphy state?

Well the original excuse was that Manaphy are from warmer seas and so the the reason why Phione are laid is because it's in Sinnoh which is a colder climate. Technically that excuse could be used for Unova and maybe Kalos as well, but Alola you'd think would be the perfect breeding grounds for Manaphy yet still Phione. So either:

1. There has to be a specific location in the ocean where Manaphy Eggs are laid.
2. The Manaphy Egg is a rare mutation, seemingly one that cannot be recreated in captivity.

There is another instance, which is that Volbeat and Illumise can rarely breed to create the other one.

There's also both Nidoran species (though oddly not their evolutions).
You'd think Tauros and Miltank would be another pair but oddly not.

 

[Golden009]

The swap between Steven and Wallace from Ruby/Sapphire to Emerald always seemed odd to me; it's never really been done in any other generation (gen 5 being the closest, but that was a sequel and barely comparable), and I doubt there was any sort of fan backlash to Steven that led to the change (especially since you still fight him in Emerald, just as a postgame thing). When you also consider that those two characters fit super well into the land/water dichotomy that the entire game is built around, is it possible that they were originally meant to be version-exclusive champions? It would make sense for Wallace, someone with a deep appreciation for the sea but who isn't insane about it, to be the final boss in Ruby, while Steven, the rational earth-lover, is the champion in Sapphire.

The other explanation I could see would be that they wanted to have a big Red-style superboss in Emerald and Steven was the only person that would make sense, although the Emerald Steven fight isn't taken nearly as seriously as the Gen 2 Red fight is.

 

[Millky95]

The swap between Steven and Wallace from Ruby/Sapphire to Emerald always seemed odd to me; it's never really been done in any other generation (gen 5 being the closest, but that was a sequel and barely comparable), and I doubt there was any sort of fan backlash to Steven that led to the change (especially since you still fight him in Emerald, just as a postgame thing). When you also consider that those two characters fit super well into the land/water dichotomy that the entire game is built around, is it possible that they were originally meant to be version-exclusive champions? It would make sense for Wallace, someone with a deep appreciation for the sea but who isn't insane about it, to be the final boss in Ruby, while Steven, the rational earth-lover, is the champion in Sapphire.

The other explanation I could see would be that they wanted to have a big Red-style superboss in Emerald and Steven was the only person that would make sense, although the Emerald Steven fight isn't taken nearly as seriously as the Gen 2 Red fight is.

Red also gets hyped from early on in GSC. Steven whilst being around in the plot doesn't have the build up of a battle and you also don't find any information a fight with him is even possible. Plus Red gets a locked off area where no one else is allowed to enter without 16 badges

 

[Pikachu315111]

The swap between Steven and Wallace from Ruby/Sapphire to Emerald always seemed odd to me; it's never really been done in any other generation (gen 5 being the closest, but that was a sequel and barely comparable), and I doubt there was any sort of fan backlash to Steven that led to the change (especially since you still fight him in Emerald, just as a postgame thing). When you also consider that those two characters fit super well into the land/water dichotomy that the entire game is built around, is it possible that they were originally meant to be version-exclusive champions? It would make sense for Wallace, someone with a deep appreciation for the sea but who isn't insane about it, to be the final boss in Ruby, while Steven, the rational earth-lover, is the champion in Sapphire.

The other explanation I could see would be that they wanted to have a big Red-style superboss in Emerald and Steven was the only person that would make sense, although the Emerald Steven fight isn't taken nearly as seriously as the Gen 2 Red fight is.

Odd but I could also see them just wanting to do something different. Now Emerald already made leaps and bounds over with the changes it made compared to Yellow and Crystal. Combining the Magma & Aqua story and adding the Battle Frontier was already major changes enough they didn't even need to touch the Pokemon League roster, but I could also see the argument it would have been disappointed if they have done all these big changes yet nothing was done to mix up the League. Whatever the case maybe, they decided to retire Steven to super boss, promote Wallace to Champion, and introduce Juan as 8th Gym Leader; a few last hour surprises just when you thought the surprises was done. And it makes sense, this all would be placed between the climax of the plot and before the opening of the Battle Frontier, so some little more twists to keep the player's attention isn't a bad thing.

Getting a theory together

As for if they were originally meant to be version exclusives, I doubt it. Like, I did always find it odd that the Sootopolis Gym felt more like an Ice-type Gym than Water, though Sootopolis very much feels like a Water-based location being you have to use Dive to access it. Though if we're to push this theory that would be the place to start, like maybe Glacia was meant to be the 8th Gym Leader (she does look like nobility more than Wallace does), there would have been another character as an Elite Four member, and then we'd have Wallace as Champion for Ruby & Steven as Champion for Sapphire (just to change things up). As for why they didn't go for this idea, well, maybe during development they thought about what they would do for the 3rd version so decided a Champion change-up would be a fun idea to do there was a surprise; maybe thinking it would set up to allow them to do similar changes in later gens.

Yeah, all sound like a stretch, though that's because it is. No, Wallace was also meant to be 8th and Steven the Champion, their placement of the story I feel cements this. Infact, the order change in Emerald kind of does feel like a last minute decision, like Juan's overworld sprite is just Steven's with shorter hair and a few pixels for his mustache (they didn't even change his shirt color!). Everything is mostly the same during the climax, but then Steven & Wallace are like "okay, we're out!", Juan's like "hey I'm the Sootopolis Gym Leader even though I did nothing during the whole Cave of Origin ordeal", Wallace at the League is like "hey even though I have a strong connection to Sootopolis I'm actually the Champion", and when you find Steven while randomly searching all of Hoenn again during post game he's like "i like digging up rocks, want to battle?".

 

[Myth2048]

What are you?! Where did you come from!

But seriously, there’s no way this is natural. But it doesn’t really seem man mad, so where did it come from?

 

[Pikachu315111]

What are you?! Where did you come from!

But seriously, there’s no way this is natural. But it doesn’t really seem man mad, so where did it come from? View attachment 327579

Juniper agrees:

"Hi there! Did you find something? I think we're just about done collecting data. This cave has been around since the distant past, but… Data to prove that Klink existed more than a hundred years ago can't be found. So that must mean… Klink suddenly appeared a hundred years ago! Where Pokémon came from and where they are going… If we can learn that, I believe we can get along even better!"

Granted, reading it by itself makes it sound like Juniper is jumping to a conclusion, but at the very least we do know that Chargestone Cave, the only place where you find Klink in the game (that and the P2 Laboratory but considering the place's backstory could be Klink were brought there), didn't have any records of Klink living in the cave over a hundred years ago. Since hundred years ago in real life would be around the time electric automation would start being a mainstream thing, and how some other Unova Pokemon have dubious origins (Vanillite being an icicle exposed to the sun's rays, Tubbish was a trash bag that underwent a chemical reaction), would not be surprising if Klink was a pair of discarded gears brought to life with the power of electricity.

 

[R_N]

Juniper agrees:


Granted, reading it by itself makes it sound like Juniper is jumping to a conclusion, but at the very least we do know that Chargestone Cave, the only place where you find Klink in the game (that and the P2 Laboratory but considering the place's backstory could be Klink were brought there), didn't have any records of Klink living in the cave over a hundred years ago. Since hundred years ago in real life would be around the time electric automation would start being a mainstream thing, and how some other Unova Pokemon have dubious origins (Vanillite being an icicle exposed to the sun's rays, Tubbish was a trash bag that underwent a chemical reaction), would not be surprising if Klink was a pair of discarded gears brought to life with the power of electricity.

Interestringly SWSH gave Klink some new lore implying Klink inspired our usage of gears

It's suspected that Klink were the inspiration behind ancient people's invention of the first gears.

might be a bit of a chicken/egg thing in-universe.

 

[Ironmage]

My personal headcanon is that the Klink line is a fully speciated regional variant of the Magnemite line. It does kick the natural vs artificial origin down the line, but magnemite has been around for a while in-universe (it's shown in at least the Generations version of the ancient Kalos war sequence). I get that a lot of gen 5 mons coult be seen as associated with gen 1 mons, but an actual connection seems stronger for this pair.

Has there been a non-legendary Steel type confirmed to be artificial? The generic confirmed lines I can think of off the top of my head are just Golurk and Claydol, which are ground type instead (since the classic golem is made of clay).

Side note: there's at least one example of Earth animals evolving to use gearing in some capacity: a planthopper insect uses gear teeth to synchronize its legs when jumping.

 

[R_N]

My personal headcanon is that the Klink line is a fully speciated regional variant of the Magnemite line. It does kick the natural vs artificial origin down the line, but magnemite has been around for a while in-universe (it's shown in at least the Generations version of the ancient Kalos war sequence). I get that a lot of gen 5 mons coult be seen as associated with gen 1 mons, but an actual connection seems stronger for this pair.

Has there been a non-legendary Steel type confirmed to be artificial? The generic confirmed lines I can think of off the top of my head are just Golurk and Claydol, which are ground type instead (since the classic golem is made of clay).

Side note: there's at least one example of Earth animals evolving to use gearing in some capacity: a planthopper insect uses gear teeth to synchronize its legs when jumping.

In terms of non-legendayr steel types it's usually just "this pokemon has a steel-like covering", with the rock types in particular being "hardened like/into steel"

The more "mechanical" steel types are usually just ~mysterious~ and might note odd relations to other real things (ie: klink & actual gears, bronzor and actual bronze mirrors) without going much further.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

On a side note, while Klink is a very mysterious Pokemon, I believe it not looking natural was a deliberate intention in terms of design. When I read some of the interviews about Gen 5's design process, the Klink line was part of a request for Game Freak to design something that was explicitly made to look artificial and inorganic.

Speaking of Gen 5, however, let's talk about Accelgor:

Accelgor's dex entries in B1 and BW2:

"When its body dries out, it weakens. So, to prevent dehydration, it wraps itself in many layers of thin membrane".

"When it body dries out, it weakens. So it wraps a membrane around itself for protection while it spits poison."

Above is Accelgor. But from what you can see, yes, it's wrapping a membrane around itself. But the membrane is blue.

Karrablast's membrane is largely blue. And one of its abilities is Shed Skin, which means it has a tendency to shed its own skin.

So this is just a theory, but aside from the fact that Accelgor is the organism inside the Shelmet that lost its shell, perhaps this means it took Karrablast's shed membranes and is wearing them around itself? So it truly did have something to take from Karrablast after all.

Maybe the evolution process isn't really one sided, and in fact both Karrablast and Shelmet take something from each other during the trade that leads to their evolution. Just like how Karrablast steals Shelmet's shell and becomes Escavalier (which is a Karrablast wearing Shelmet's shell as armor, the shell reshaped for Karrablast), Shelmet took some of Karrablast's shed membrane and used it to coat its vulnerable body now that it no longer has a shell and wears it as an Accelgor.

It's not explicitly stated, but it does seem like Accelgor might have taken something from Karrablast during the trade, just like how Escavalier had taken over and hijacked the Shelmet shell.

 

[Myth2048]

On a side note, while Klink is a very mysterious Pokemon, I believe it not looking natural was a deliberate intention in terms of design. When I read some of the interviews about Gen 5's design process, the Klink line was part of a request for Game Freak to design something that was explicitly made to look artificial and inorganic.

Speaking of Gen 5, however, let's talk about Accelgor:

Accelgor's dex entries in B1 and BW2:

"When its body dries out, it weakens. So, to prevent dehydration, it wraps itself in many layers of thin membrane".

"When it body dries out, it weakens. So it wraps a membrane around itself for protection while it spits poison."

Above is Accelgor. But from what you can see, yes, it's wrapping a membrane around itself. But the membrane is blue.

Karrablast's membrane is largely blue. And one of its abilities is Shed Skin, which means it has a tendency to shed its own skin.

So this is just a theory, but aside from the fact that Accelgor is the organism inside the Shelmet that lost its shell, perhaps this means it took Karrablast's shed membranes and is wearing them around itself? So it truly did have something to take from Karrablast after all.

Maybe the evolution process isn't really one sided, and in fact both Karrablast and Shelmet take something from each other during the trade that leads to their evolution. Just like how Karrablast steals Shelmet's shell and becomes Escavalier (which is a Karrablast wearing Shelmet's shell as armor, the shell reshaped for Karrablast), Shelmet took some of Karrablast's shed membrane and used it to coat its vulnerable body now that it no longer has a shell and wears it as an Accelgor.

It's not explicitly stated, but it does seem like Accelgor might have taken something from Karrablast during the trade, just like how Escavalier had taken over and hijacked the Shelmet shell.

This is a good theory. Although it does look like escavalier keeps some of it’s membrane.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Speaking of Gen 5, however, let's talk about Accelgor:

Accelgor's dex entries in B1 and BW2:

"When its body dries out, it weakens. So, to prevent dehydration, it wraps itself in many layers of thin membrane".

"When it body dries out, it weakens. So it wraps a membrane around itself for protection while it spits poison."

Above is Accelgor. But from what you can see, yes, it's wrapping a membrane around itself. But the membrane is blue.

Karrablast's membrane is largely blue. And one of its abilities is Shed Skin, which means it has a tendency to shed its own skin.

So this is just a theory, but aside from the fact that Accelgor is the organism inside the Shelmet that lost its shell, perhaps this means it took Karrablast's shed membranes and is wearing them around itself? So it truly did have something to take from Karrablast after all.

Sure, the membrane is blue... buy a greyish blue. Also, a bug's exoskeleton is made from layers of hard protein, nothing that Shelmet would be able to wrap itself with.

Also remember that Shelmet is a snail, it likely has a mucus membrane which would be able to create more of and would be stretchy enough to wrap around itself. Why is it a greyish-blue then? That's probably just the color old membrane turn to after a while and/or when exposed to open air.

 

[Myth2048]

Sorry for double posting, but klink isn’t the only Pokémon I’v been wondering about.

I’m specifically talking about celebi and hoopa. There’s no way time travel/wormholes evolved in nature, even with dragons and fairies running around. My best guess as to where they came from is that they’re related to dialga and palkia. Although for what reason they were created, and by what is beyond me.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Since Sinnoh is on a lot of people's minds right now for obvious reasons, I wanna discuss one of its most infamous qualities that is in itself a mystery.

The Diamond and Pearl dex. We all know it, and we all hate it. I think every Pokemon fan who actively participates in Gen 4 discourse has at some point seen or made a joke about the 2 Fire types, Flint's team or something along those lines. What is discussed far less often is why it was in the state it was in, and for such a well-known issue I don't blame anyone cuz thinking about it no matter for how long doesn't seem to have it ever make any more sense. After bringing up this topic a few times, seeing people's opinions and speculating on my own I've compiled 3 viable-ish and/or commonly circulated theories with varying degrees of issues. Let's take a look, starting with...

Theory 1: Unforeseen Development Complications
This is a theory that I personally came up with in the wake of the DP beta leak that happened a while back. That leak presented a game that looked incredibly rough with unfinished sprites, low-quality textures and unfinished features galore, especially considering that it was dated merely 5 months before launch, which in turn strongly hints at a troubled development. In addition, there is a piece of circumstantial evidence that suggests the omission of many of the Sinnoh cross-gen evolutions was one made decently late in development, at the very least after the conceptual stages: In Platinum, the duo of Flint and Volkner use Magmortar and Electivire as their signature Pokemon respectively. On top of this, they both use the respective Kanto eeveelutions of their types, and wouldn't ya know it, among the missing evolutions are Eeveelutions. Considering their firmly established friendship dates back to DP it's incredibly likely these Pokemon choices were made to reflect this pairing of theirs, as in it may have been intended to be a thing from the start until the decision was made to lock away these vital Pokemon to the postgame.

The evidence for this theory is solid enough at a glance, but it raises a major question: Why did this never happen again before or after? The former especially is important to consider: Pokemon before this point was no stranger to development problems even beyond the extra notorious Gen 1 and 2 cycles, for Ruby and Sapphire, the very previous games, had such a strenuous, high-stakes development cycle that it resulted in Masuda himself being hospitalized, and even THOSE were capable of fitting all 135 new Pokemon they introduced with the exception of deliberately rare and elusive ones like Beldum and the legendaries into the main game. It's not like they ran out of time to implement the cross-gen evos in DP either: They're fully existent and playable, just not catchable in the main story. This theory is predicated on the assumption that DP's development in particular was just so utterly nightmarish that they were somehow either unable to correctly implement the encounter tables or when they tried they ran into some sort of bizarre glitch or other difficulty they had no time to resolve and so decided to scrap it, which just sounds like a major stretch to me.

Theory 2: Dual-Slot Shilling
This seems to be the most "popular" theory as far as I can tell, but also is in my opinion the most flawed. For the uninformed, Dual-Slot Mode was a feature in DPPt where by putting a GBA cartridge for one of the gen 3 games in the DS' GBA cart slot you could catch special Pokemon not obtainable in normal gameplay depending on what cart you put in. The theory goes that in order to entice this feature's usage the cross-gen evos were blocked off to be only accessible by using it. Again, at face value, this makes sense and sounds exactly like the brand of stupid jank you'd expect Game Freak to do. Then you look at the actual list of dual-slot only Pokemon and realize only three lines with evolutions, Magby, Elekid and Gligar are actually obtainable this way. Even if you count Tangela, the only line that requires transfer from an older title to be obtained in DP, that still leaves the vast majority unaccounted for, including the likes of Probopass, Gallade, Gliscor, Porygon-Z, Glaceon and Leafeon, Togekiss and more.

Theory 3: Ill-Conceived Kanto Homage
One curious thing that some have noted about the DP dex is that its Pokemon counts adds up to 151 with the Mythical Manaphy being the last one. This makes it identical in terms of Pokemon count to the original Kanto dex, right down to the last Pokemon listed being a Mythical. This leads some to believe that this was done as some very poorly-thought-out reference to the first generation. Honestly out of all the theories here this is the least worst just because there is nothing directly disproving it. That said, I still find it really hard to believe because if they were really trying that hard to force this homage, then why didn't they prioritize the new Pokemon and get those all in first? With the evolutions included as well as any Sinnoh Mythical/Legend not in the Platinum dex excluded you have 98 new Pokemon, and when you add in the 32 evolutionary relatives to the new evos the final tally comes out to 130. A tight squeeze no doubt, but it's doable with 21 slots to spare as well, and the nature of the cross-gen evos combined with these slots would've ensured decent enough old gen representation.

So yeah, in the end none of these theories are really 100% satisfactory on their own. It could be a mix of some of these factors, perhaps. But what do you think? Got any alternate theories?

 

[Ironmage]

Sorry for double posting, but klink isn’t the only Pokémon I’v been wondering about.

I’m specifically talking about celebi and hoopa. There’s no way time travel/wormholes evolved in nature, even with dragons and fairies running around. My best guess as to where they came from is that they’re related to dialga and palkia. Although for what reason they where created, and by what is beyond me.

Nature has a tendency to use anything that works. If something has the capability to access time travel or wormholes, and doing so doesn't screw them over, then them evolving to use it isn't unreasonable. Even for fantasy, wormholes and time travel are probably in the more difficult to access category, but that just means that mons using them are rarer (which matches the distribution of mons that expressly use them). That said, Trick Room is a mess of its own when it comes to bending spacetime, and most psychic types can learn it.

Then again, I'm the guy whose most frequent complaint about fantasy worldbuilding is that it's been made too restrictive for what qualifies as natural.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I’m specifically talking about celebi and hoopa. There’s no way time travel/wormholes evolved in nature, even with dragons and fairies running around. My best guess as to where they came from is that they’re related to dialga and palkia. Although for what reason they where created, and by what is beyond me.

Hoopa is a bit of a mystery of where it came from. With its power to teleport it could have come from anywhere, heck, its even implied its able to use its rings to teleport through time (or at least between dimensions). I'd actually more relate it to Ultra Wormholes than to Palkia; not that it couldn't be related back to Palkia being the "god of space" but I would think Ultra Wormholes would still be a closer related power source.

As for Celebi, the time travel seems odd but it makes sense in a certain context. Celebi's main role is guardian of the forest, it has the power to rejuvenate plants, make them grow, and animate & control them. What does that have to do with time travel? It's sort a symbolism thing. If you look at a timeline of a human development such as a village/town/city/etc. you'd see many changes happen within and around it as old buildings are destroyed, new (and usually bigger) buildings are built, and possibly also increasing in area size. Now, you do the same thing with the forest... and you'll be hard pressed to notice any major changes. Sure, old trees down and new trees replace them, but trees live for a long time and when you have an entire forest of trees its hard to notice this replacing (especially from looking down from the tree tops as the winds would make the treetops constantly move around). This gives forests an almost timeless feel to them, like the forest is both stuck in time & never-changing but also whatever occurs in the forest has occured many times before, will after, & can take place at any time. And when something major does happen to the forest, say a forest fire, while that moment in time and years after will show the forest's scar eventually new trees will grow and it'll look as it was before the fire even took place. This is essentially why Celebi was given time travel powers, its using the forests power to essentially slip into another instance in time of the forest; still looking the same as it did when where it time travelled from.

 

[Myth2048]

As for Celebi, the time travel seems odd but it makes sense in a certain context. Celebi's main role is guardian of the forest, it has the power to rejuvenate plants, make them grow, and animate & control them. What does that have to do with time travel? It's sort a symbolism thing. If you look at a timeline of a human development such as a village/town/city/etc. you'd see many changes happen within and around it as old buildings are destroyed, new (and usually bigger) buildings are built, and possibly also increasing in area size. Now, you do the same thing with the forest... and you'll be hard pressed to notice any major changes. Sure, old trees down and new trees replace them, but trees live for a long time and when you have an entire forest of trees its hard to notice this replacing (especially from looking down from the tree tops as the winds would make the treetops constantly move around). This gives forests an almost timeless feel to them, like the forest is both stuck in time & never-changing but also whatever occurs in the forest has occured many times before, will after, & can take place at any time. And when something major does happen to the forest, say a forest fire, while that moment in time and years after will show the forest's scar eventually new trees will grow and it'll look as it was before the fire even took place. This is essentially why Celebi was given time travel powers, its using the forests power to essentially slip into another instance in time of the forest; still looking the same as it did when where it time travelled from.

This makes sense as a creative reason celebi was given time travel, but not really as an in-universe one. Maybe I should have been more specific as to what I was looking for, which was the origin of celebi in-universe. But it’s still a cool idea.

 

[R_N]

Sometimes pokemon have """"scientific""" reasons for doing what they're able to do (lots of reference to flame organs or poison sacs or whatever) but also sometimes its just basically magic*.

Psychic stuff in particular gets associated with "mystical" stuff a lot* so that extending to a pokemon being able to use psychic powers so good it can time travel or open portals across space (huh kinda realizing that celebi/hoopa equate to dialga/palkia as parallels, thats fun) doesnt surprise me. If you want an in-universe explanation as to WHY celebi & hoopa can do what they do here's a pair:
Celebi is the protector of the forest, so it used its psychic powers in such a way that it could always protect it across all time.
Hoopa is mischievous, being able to whisk away treasures it steals could lead ot using psychic powers to steal make get away; kind of an extension of teleportation.


*Off the top of my head:
-Anime Sabrina uses her psychic powers to, among more standard telekinesis and teleportation, project a younger ghostly version of herself to torment others and turns people into dolls, physically
-Gen 2 had, in addition to Celebi, Xatu as a pokemon that constantly sees into the past & future as well as the move Future Sight.
-And of course Unown, whose combined psychic powers are able to break/alter reality
-Gardevoir can also see the future and, perhaps more inexplicably, unleash its psychic powers so hard it CREATES A BLACK HOLE
-Gothitelle is like a weird fortune teller and can use psychic power to distort space and bring into view galaxies
-Braixen & Delphox are literally witches complete with magic wand
-Hatterene is also just literally a witch

I feel like i've seen psychics/espers show up and do things like this in various pop culture things time to time. Truly the power of the mind is conveniently limitless

 

[Siggu]

I just found out that Beat Up, somehow, does not make any contact on the target.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I just found out that Beat Up, somehow, does not make any contact on the target.

The Japanese name is Gang Up and considering its effect, I think it's being implied the user themselves aren't attacking the target but rather summoned its party members to wallop it. Why the party members don't activate any contact prompts I don't know, maybe the allies aren't actually coming out of their Poke Balls but rather a quick energy form of them is being constructed to strike the opponent before vanishing (other moves appear as giant energy punches, kicks, and even jaws, why not in the shape of your party members?).

 

[DrPumpkinz]

The Japanese name is Gang Up and considering its effect, I think it's being implied the user themselves aren't attacking the target but rather summoned its party members to wallop it. Why the party members don't activate any contact prompts I don't know, maybe the allies aren't actually coming out of their Poke Balls but rather a quick energy form of them is being constructed to strike the opponent before vanishing (other moves appear as giant energy punches, kicks, and even jaws, why not in the shape of your party members?).

Even then, one of those hits comes from the user itself.