SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Interviews are as much preplanned as they are off the cuff, it's very reasonable to not being super detailed about the timelines and full scope of intent

Stuff like Falinks and the Crustle on Route 8 are probably more exceptions that were always planned (osbtagoon, meanwhile, is just out there, that coudl haev been anyone. There's nothing really special going on there. Same goes for having one random crawdaunt in some of the water ways). They have been experimenting with things like this for a while: from the phenemona that happens in Gen 5 & 6 to stuff like berry piles, rustling trees and especially Wimpod in gen 7. So taking that root, and already experimenting with the Wild Area as it is, and applying extra special encounters to other routes, makes sense. Little bits of flavor, like how you can see Woobat flying about in the lower levels of the Mine. Meanwhile have you tried to move through the rest of Route 8?

It is the most cramped area in the game and that works when you're just going through occasional patches of grasses and getting a few random encounters. It does not work when there's like 4 encounters in a 2x2 area and also some of hte Pokemon have aggressive AI to chase you and large hit boxes.

Similar vibes apply to Route 9: the maze like ice floes and "swimming laps" Grapploct mesh well together when there's no OW encounters. That was probabyl designed with intent as well. The rest of the pokemon that can spawn around route 9 are not so well integrated at all, making it hard to see if there's even a pokemon out there at times (and if so, which ones are there) and getting in the way but not in a "designed" way.

And these are bookended by routes that have no sort of special encounters but do have very cramped design space for the Pokemon in them.
 
This gets into a separate question of "Would Game Freak have eventually done overworld Pokemon without the influence of Go?". While obviously we can't ever know for sure, my current inclination is a fairly solid "Yes". Maybe it would've taken a game or 2 longer, but in the end I can't help but feel like actually showing Pokemon living and inhabiting the world was bound to happen as hardware advanced and the company got more to grips with 3D design and how it could be used to make the world of Pokemon feel more and more alive, to say nothing of the broader shift of the JRPG genre away from random encounters.
I think that without Go, at the very least we still get Legends: Arceus. That calls more from Breath of the Wild than Go, after all. And after L:A being so well-received, probably they don't do Overworld in SV if they didn't do it in SwSh* because time frame, but they probably get really determined to integrate it into Gen 10.

*With the exception of things like Wimpod, legendaries, Kalos Route 13, etc that R_N mentioned and would have gotten similar mons in SV
 
Aside from just generally wanting to focus on the actual Pokemon, there's also the thing where most of the Pokemon trophies (even in Melee) were asset reuse. Before gen 6 trainers had to be made from scratch, which is likely why Melee only had 2 (original models for Misty & Professor Oak) and Brawl had none at all (beyodg Trainer, obviously) because as a whole original assets for trophies was on the backburner.

Then Smash 4 and it gets Sycamore & the XY Trainers because they had high quality models to grab/base off of. If Ultimate had trophies instead of spirits there's a decent chance it'd have a few just because everyone in Alola had high quality full body models
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Idk if this is the best thread for this but whevs.

So DrPumpkinz and I briefly chatted earlier about fangames which got me thinking about the treatment I wrote ages ago for my own Pokemon game, and seeing the types I'd chosen for the gyms got me thinking about the different types and what makes a "good" first gym type.

It might be an unpopular opinion but looking back over the series so far, I think Rock really is the ideal type for the first gym. Obviously it has an interaction with Fire, Water, and Grass, but it also has the added bonus that basically everything has Normal-type moves early on, and those are obviously ineffective against it. So that teaches you that you can't always just catch a Pokemon and hope for the best. The Origins series captured this quite aptly when Red blindly sends out the typical early-Kanto fodder against Brock's Onix - Spearow, Rattata, Metapod - and they largely fail to do anything.

Normal seems the really obvious choice for a first gym, but honestly I disagree, and I think this is why they waited as long as they did to make it the first gym. It doesn't teach you anything and it isn't all that interesting as a first major opponent since, as I said, everything gets Normal moves early on so it's not a novelty or an unknown quantity. You'll only have an advantage against it in a game where the Fire starter turns to Fighting once it evolves (which is, uh, several of them, but practically speaking just B2W2) but otherwise it means that you have no immediate incentive to pick one starter over another. Additionally, Normal only gets interesting as a type in the midgame because of its incredible versatility and the range of powerful and diverse Normal moves.

So, because I love a good list, let's examine the types in this context:

The suitability of each type to be a first gym
  • Fire/Water/Grass - as the "basic" types, they're sort of a given, though it's funny that it took until Gen VIII to actually do it - unless you count BW's three-in-one gym. But that's a gimmick it seems unlikely we'll see again.

  • Electric - mmm, Grass resists it but ultimately it's too tricky for a first gym. Its sole weakness, Ground, is rarely encountered very early on. It lends itself much more to the mid-game, which is why that's usually exactly where it is.

  • Bug - well, we've actually had a first gym be Bug before. And it's a lot of fun. So this one gets a thumbs up. The BST of fully-evolved Bug Pokemon like Butterfree and Vivillon is roughly comparable to that of Onix, the OG first gym signature, so they work as early bosses.

  • Flying - the same thing goes for Bug. Although fully-evolved Flying-types tend to be more powerful, hence the only example being the NFE Pidgeotto. I'm curious as to whether they'd go with Flying again - they obviously wanted to do something different in GSC but it doesn't match up to the FWG trio as elegantly as Rock does.

  • Fighting/Poison/Fairy/Psychic/Dark - lumping these all together for the same reason: these are all very much midgame types. They're all defensively neutral to the main three, so are not easy to defeat. Dark does tend to come relatively early (and has generally weaker Pokemon overall) so I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I just don't think it will.

  • Ghost - nope. It's immune to Normal which, as mentioned, basically everything gets early on - but has no easy early-accessible weaknesses. It has the potential to be very overpowered in the early stage of the game.

  • Ground - now that works, largely because it's basically the same as Rock in most regards. I suspect that the reason Rock is picked over Ground is that Ground is slightly less difficult - your typical early-game Bugs and Normals aren't disadvantaged against it

  • Dragon - would be interesting, because all the starter types are disadvantaged against it. I'd actually be very interested in seeing a Dragon gym early on if Game Freak were ever minded to do it. But there is a sense that Game Freak seems to think that Dragon ought to be a late-game type, even if - as in recent games - Dragons can be caught early on. There is no precedent for the first Gym Leader of a region using a Pokemon which the player cannot obtain until much later in the game, and even basic-stage Dragons tend to be quite powerful.

  • Ice - similar reasons to Dragon; Ice is always a late-game type in every game. Again, I'd like to see it but I think that it goes against Game Freak's design conventions. The freeze status might also be considered too broken for the early-game; even though it typically has a low chance of happening it could potentially be difficult to deal with for newer/younger players.

  • Steel - would actually be interesting because Fire has the edge and Grass and Water are both disadvantaged. Part of me thinks that, like Ice and Dragon, Game Freak consider Steel to be a late-game type - Steel types often have very high defences and too many resistances without stacking the deck in the early stage of the game. Skarmory for instance would have been utterly dominating if Falkner used it.

  • Rock/Normal - already covered.

Having chosen Ground for the first gym in my own game treatment, I'm really curious now if we'll ever get a Ground gym as the first one in a future game, because it seems to me to be the only viable option not yet taken. But maybe I'm completely off on this and Gen IX's first gym will be Ice-typed (we can but dream).
 
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but has no easy early-accessible weaknesses.
Isn't Bite relatively common in early Pokémon's movesets? Off the top of my head, Meowth, Poochyena, Patrat, and Lillipup get it, not to mention that Purrloin and Nickit are Dark-type as well.

Also, Water isn't disadvantaged against Steel; since Water resits Steel and Steel takes neutral damage from Water. Now that you mention it, it would be an interesting type for a first gym.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Isn't Bite relatively common in early Pokémon's movesets? Off the top of my head, Meowth, Poochyena, Patrat, and Lillipup get it, not to mention that Purrloin and Nickit are Dark-type as well.
Yeah, there are sometimes early Dark-types/moves. My point was more that in a lot of instances you'd be left with no option than to train a Dark-type, and that's railroading that's (BW aside) generally avoided. Normal is so omnipresent early on that Ghosts would be very powerful.

Also, Water isn't disadvantaged against Steel; since Water resits Steel and Steel takes neutral damage from Water. Now that you mention it, it would be an interesting type for a first gym.
Arrrrgghhhh why do I ALWAYS make that mistake? For some reason I always think Steel resists Water when it doesn't.
 
Once I saw someone praise the Santalune Gym for how it plays with the type chart; since Viola's Pokémon are a Surskit (which is Water-type) and Vivillon (which knows Powder), Fire-types are actually at a disadvantage. It's like how Chikorita isn't a bad match up against Mahogany because all the Pokémon they use are weak to Grass.

Also, Gen 6 introduced a lot of oddly specific moves. There are several that only affect Pokémon with Plus or Minus, Rolotiller and Flower Shield only affect Grass-types... Were these attempts at buffs?
 
I'll echo the praise of Santalune; what I really like about it is that while it accounts for Fire types with Surskit, ultimately Flying or Electric types can take care of it fairly easily, which shows off that you need to consider all type effectiveness and not just the most obvious answer.

Anyways, Dragon would be interesting but also very tricky to implement properly. Either there need to be early game counters, the mons would have to be weak enough to be taken down by strong neutral hits or the starters would need to learn moves to counter.

...Honestly considering how Gamefreak's done it before, Water would learn Ice, Fire would learn Fairy and Grass would learn nothing because the Grass type gets nothing good.
 
The suitability of each type to be a first gym
  • Fire/Water/Grass - as the "basic" types, they're sort of a given, though it's funny that it took until Gen VIII to actually do it - unless you count BW's three-in-one gym. But that's a gimmick it seems unlikely we'll see again.

  • Electric - mmm, Grass resists it but ultimately it's too tricky for a first gym. Its sole weakness, Ground, is rarely encountered very early on. It lends itself much more to the mid-game, which is why that's usually exactly where it is.

  • Bug - well, we've actually had a first gym be Bug before. And it's a lot of fun. So this one gets a thumbs up. The BST of fully-evolved Bug Pokemon like Butterfree and Vivillon is roughly comparable to that of Onix, the OG first gym signature, so they work as early bosses.

  • Flying - the same thing goes for Bug. Although fully-evolved Flying-types tend to be more powerful, hence the only example being the NFE Pidgeotto. I'm curious as to whether they'd go with Flying again - they obviously wanted to do something different in GSC but it doesn't match up to the FWG trio as elegantly as Rock does.

  • Fighting/Poison/Fairy/Psychic/Dark - lumping these all together for the same reason: these are all very much midgame types. They're all defensively neutral to the main three, so are not easy to defeat. Dark does tend to come relatively early (and has generally weaker Pokemon overall) so I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I just don't think it will.

  • Ghost - nope. It's immune to Normal which, as mentioned, basically everything gets early on - but has no easy early-accessible weaknesses. It has the potential to be very overpowered in the early stage of the game.

  • Ground - now that works, largely because it's basically the same as Rock in most regards. I suspect that the reason Rock is picked over Ground is that Ground is slightly less difficult - your typical early-game Bugs and Normals aren't disadvantaged against it

  • Dragon - would be interesting, because all the starter types are disadvantaged against it. I'd actually be very interested in seeing a Dragon gym early on if Game Freak were ever minded to do it. But there is a sense that Game Freak seems to think that Dragon ought to be a late-game type, even if - as in recent games - Dragons can be caught early on. There is no precedent for the first Gym Leader of a region using a Pokemon which the player cannot obtain until much later in the game, and even basic-stage Dragons tend to be quite powerful.

  • Ice - similar reasons to Dragon; Ice is always a late-game type in every game. Again, I'd like to see it but I think that it goes against Game Freak's design conventions. The freeze status might also be considered too broken for the early-game; even though it typically has a low chance of happening it could potentially be difficult to deal with for newer/younger players.

  • Steel - would actually be interesting because Fire has the edge and Grass and Water are both disadvantaged. Part of me thinks that, like Ice and Dragon, Game Freak consider Steel to be a late-game type - Steel types often have very high defences and too many resistances without stacking the deck in the early stage of the game. Skarmory for instance would have been utterly dominating if Falkner used it.

  • Rock/Normal - already covered.

Having chosen Ground for the first gym in my own game treatment, I'm really curious now if we'll ever get a Ground gym as the first one in a future game, because it seems to me to be the only viable option not yet taken. But maybe I'm completely off on this and Gen IX's first gym will be Ice-typed (we can but dream).
Dragon is actually what I'd choose. Force the player to train something other than their starter, maybe even make an ice-type or two available early(gasp). Meanwhile, now the first stage of the pseudo-legendary for the region is on the gym leader's team, it usually has decent-but-not-great stats for that time, and seeing it encourages players to pick up that pseudo(which we also make available early) and baby it for the next 50+ levels so it can evolve ON Victory Road and wreck at least a couple of the E4. Like, picture taking on Dratini with a Rattata and a Butterfree. That's not out-of-line, but people would talk about it for years.

Second gym? Lvl 20, Ghost. Leader has Litwick, Phantump, and Frillish. Better hope you have a diverse team, buddy. Basically any neutral hit will faint them, but outside of Bite, little will have neutral coverage on all 3. I want players who enter with their starter and 2 derps to leave and think about what they did.

The thing is, with gym design, you have to think of it in terms of both the game as a whole and how you want people to play. If you throw the Electric gym right before the route with all the ground types(cough Hoenn cough) then it can be really frustrating, if you throw it right after all the ground types(Kalos) then it's much easier. Assuming a player isn't doing something stupid, I feel like there should be counters available, possibly several of them for repeat play, or else the gym shouldn't rely on counters.

And what sort of challenge should they be? As you can see from my answers, I want to encourage people to catch multiple pokemon and try to establish a lot of coverage early, and I dislike "Level up your ace and hit hard" as a solution. BW wanted a tutorial that forced players to pick the right answer, which is fine for new players, but not really interesting for returning ones. Alola threw the Principal of the Trainer's School and Ilima's Smeargle at you to tell you to train SOMETHING other than your starter, but left it much more up to you what that was. Older games were more willing to do things like the Winstrate House as endurance challenges, force the player to show up with enough trained mons to handle a bunch of fights with no break to heal. What, exactly, do you want your gym to tell people to do? Answer that and the type should be obvious.
 
Fire/Water/Grass - as the "basic" types, they're sort of a given, though it's funny that it took until Gen VIII to actually do it - unless you count BW's three-in-one gym. But that's a gimmick it seems unlikely we'll see again.
I still consider B&W1 pick-you-own-challenge one of the bests gyms in the games

If I had my way all gyms would be like that with a different type depending on what starter you chose; in essence you'd get a different "route" for each starter
I mean we already have alternate Gym Leaders between games might as well go all in
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
I still consider B&W1 pick-you-own-challenge one of the bests gyms in the games

If I had my way all gyms would be like that with a different type depending on what starter you chose; in essence you'd get a different "route" for each starter
I mean we already have alternate Gym Leaders between games might as well go all in
I wonder if Scarlet & Violet will experiment with something similar to that, as they're going to be open-world. Potentially eight fixed gyms but the ability to challenge them in any order, with them scaling based on the amount of badges you've already got. It's possible.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
The suitability of each type to be a first gym
  • Fire/Water/Grass - as the "basic" types, they're sort of a given, though it's funny that it took until Gen VIII to actually do it - unless you count BW's three-in-one gym. But that's a gimmick it seems unlikely we'll see again.

  • Electric - mmm, Grass resists it but ultimately it's too tricky for a first gym. Its sole weakness, Ground, is rarely encountered very early on. It lends itself much more to the mid-game, which is why that's usually exactly where it is.

  • Bug - well, we've actually had a first gym be Bug before. And it's a lot of fun. So this one gets a thumbs up. The BST of fully-evolved Bug Pokemon like Butterfree and Vivillon is roughly comparable to that of Onix, the OG first gym signature, so they work as early bosses.

  • Flying - the same thing goes for Bug. Although fully-evolved Flying-types tend to be more powerful, hence the only example being the NFE Pidgeotto. I'm curious as to whether they'd go with Flying again - they obviously wanted to do something different in GSC but it doesn't match up to the FWG trio as elegantly as Rock does.

  • Fighting/Poison/Fairy/Psychic/Dark - lumping these all together for the same reason: these are all very much midgame types. They're all defensively neutral to the main three, so are not easy to defeat. Dark does tend to come relatively early (and has generally weaker Pokemon overall) so I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I just don't think it will.

  • Ghost - nope. It's immune to Normal which, as mentioned, basically everything gets early on - but has no easy early-accessible weaknesses. It has the potential to be very overpowered in the early stage of the game.

  • Ground - now that works, largely because it's basically the same as Rock in most regards. I suspect that the reason Rock is picked over Ground is that Ground is slightly less difficult - your typical early-game Bugs and Normals aren't disadvantaged against it

  • Dragon - would be interesting, because all the starter types are disadvantaged against it. I'd actually be very interested in seeing a Dragon gym early on if Game Freak were ever minded to do it. But there is a sense that Game Freak seems to think that Dragon ought to be a late-game type, even if - as in recent games - Dragons can be caught early on. There is no precedent for the first Gym Leader of a region using a Pokemon which the player cannot obtain until much later in the game, and even basic-stage Dragons tend to be quite powerful.

  • Ice - similar reasons to Dragon; Ice is always a late-game type in every game. Again, I'd like to see it but I think that it goes against Game Freak's design conventions. The freeze status might also be considered too broken for the early-game; even though it typically has a low chance of happening it could potentially be difficult to deal with for newer/younger players.

  • Steel - would actually be interesting because Fire has the edge and Grass and Water are both disadvantaged. Part of me thinks that, like Ice and Dragon, Game Freak consider Steel to be a late-game type - Steel types often have very high defences and too many resistances without stacking the deck in the early stage of the game. Skarmory for instance would have been utterly dominating if Falkner used it.

  • Rock/Normal - already covered.
Very interesting thoughts. It is an interesting thought question, what principles and factors goes into choosing the first Gym Type. I personally think, under the right circumstances, any Type could be the first Gym Type as long as you include a way to defeat the Gym (be it by giving a disadvantage Starter a handy coverage move early or have a Pokemon catchable nearby that can do the job). To go over some you had questions about:

Electric & Poison: If they already had covered the basics like the Type Chart before the first Gym, an Electric-type Gym I think could be a good choice as it can teach about the Status Ailments. Of the five notable Status Ailments, I think Paralysis and Poison are the most common so wouldn't feel "unfair" to focus the first Gym upon. They could even have a few Wild Pokemon that could Paralyze and Poison to get the player used to them. Though while annoying in a Wild Battle, in an actual trainer battle with a competent Gym Leader ai could show how tides of a battle can quickly turn. Luckily, being this is in-game, you can use Paralyze Heals, Antidotes, and Berries to manage the battle. Let you catch an Electric/Poison-type or even have an early Ground-type nearby would further help manage the battle (not to mention Mud-Slap is a move a lot of Pokemon learn early and comes with a handy Accuracy decrease).

Flying: The tricky thing about Flying is that its more of a counter for later Types like Fighting & Ground. If Falkner's Gym felt not quite right for a first Gym it's cause it couldn't really bring anything to the table, at least at that point in the franchise (heck, Falkner's main strategy is Mud-Slap of all moves). However I think by now a Flying-type First Gym does have enough utilities it could counter simple early game strategies forcing the player to think more on their toes. Flying-types are normally fast but also have Tailwind to assure they'll always go first, a lot of early mons are Physical focused so Feather Dance puts a hard stop on them, Aerial Ace assures they have a STAB which always hits, Pluck can put a stop to any Berry holding strategy, and Air Cutter threatens higher chances to crit. If they especially want to be cruel Flying-type have Roost for reliable healing (as well as removing their Flying-type adding another level of complexity) and if they bring Mirror Move back I can see it being used as a surprise counter. Flying can be used to show there's way of controlling the battle other than having the stronger moves & buffing your Pokemon, and how effective it can be. An early Rock- and/or Electric-type Pokemon should put the player back in control.

Fighting & Psychic: The danger with these Types is that they hit HARD. If there's anything these Types would teach is that no one Pokemon is an army; you'll need a team and it'll likely be a battle of attrition. Obviously Fighting leans on the physical side and Psychic on the special so which one is chosen will affect the way the player has to adapt and the needed tools for them to do so. With Fighting it's more likely the Wild members of your party will be carrying the weight, especially any Flying- and Bug-types. With Psychics it's likely only your Starter would have high enough Special Defense to actually stand a chance to all your other Pokemon are serving a quick role or doing chip damage (though an early Dark-type could easily change that, and Bite as well as Bug Pokemon & Moves are normally available early on as well). Hey, maybe could also be used as a teaching tool to use those opponent debuffing moves most players tend to pass over. Maybe even give the player a Chople Berry/Payapa Berry/Focus Sash to give their Pokemon a better chance of surviving at least for two turns.

Fairy & Dark: Honestly I don't see that big of a problem with these Types. Infact Dark-types aren't known for hitting hard (on the surface), they're known for their Moves having a batch of different effects to better control the battle (or hit you hard if you aren't careful). Fairy-types have a similar vibe, though their tricks are more straightforward of hitting decently but its their secondary effect which could start adding up. Eitherway, both Types you want to knock them out asap and a good amount of your party needs to be ready to hit hard as soon as they're sent out. Types that they're weak to shouldn't be too hard to get early either as Pokemon or just moves.

Ghost: Ghost is super tricky because of their Normal immunity. If anything that would be the "gimmick" the a First Ghost-type Gym would rely on. Can't use that high PP Tackle, Quick Attack, and Swift you've been using to preserve use of your stronger moves. Nah, gotta start using the special Type moves (not like the early ones available don't also have high PP making preserving them a moot point). Not only that but Ghost can be a mixed bag: some can hit hard, some are very defensive, others are good status inflictors. So Ghost would be an interesting Type to see how a player can quickly adapt to having some Move options limited and different strategies Ghosts can have to one another. That all said, not only do a lot of Pokemon learn Bite, but the Starters STAB moves would very likely pull them through (though they gotta beware of Moves like Grudge, Spite, and Destiny Bond... as well as Curse and Confuse Ray; maybe a lesson Ghost can teach is there's no shame in switching out).

Dragon & Steel: Why not make the first challenge a player has to do is climb over a big ol' wall. Problem here is of course you don't want to bore the player, so depending on which they use they're going have to include gaps in the armor. In addition, while not a problem for Dragon-types, Steel-types aren't exactly attackers and they're support moves aren't much of anything either so they would be relying on another Type or coverage moves to keep the battle interesting.

Ice: While they'll probably keep Freezing away from a first Gym, Ice is a good Type to teach about Weather. As the player wouldn't have Ice-types all of their Pokemon would receive hail damage and the boost to Ice-type Moves Power would help mitigate the Fire and Water resistances to them. There's also the Abilities which activate in Hail, Aurora Veil for added defense in Hail, Haze & Mist to control stat changes, & Icy Wind to lower Speed. So you don't really need to touch the freezing mechanic for Ice-types to have a gimmick, and Ice-types are a fragile Type so you don't really need to work too hard to get a Pokemon or move to counter them. They would make for a pretty good if not quick surprise First Gym.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
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Spenser is such a strange design. It's mostly a pretty typical "wise old monk" look, but why the Kyogre theming? He has no backstory pertaining to it (except for Adventures which is likely totally made up after the fact), the ruleset of the Battle Palace has no discernible thematic connection to the Pokemon and it's not like there are Hoenn Frontier Brains with designs themed after Groudon and Rayquaza. In fact the only other Brain with a design based on a specific Pokemon is Lucy with Seviper's color scheme, and oh cool look at that she uses Seviper regularly and her facility is a giant facsimile of the snake. The closest link I can think of is that he uses bulky waters in both of his battles (Lapras for Silver Symbol, Suicune for Gold) but even that's pretty weak.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Spenser is such a strange design. It's mostly a pretty typical "wise old monk" look, but why the Kyogre theming? He has no backstory pertaining to it (...). The closest link I can think of is that he uses bulky waters in both of his battles (Lapras for Silver Symbol, Suicune for Gold) but even that's pretty weak.
In general the Battle Palace has some water theming. It's one of three Battle Facilities surrounded by water in the Hoenn Frontier, the other being Battle Pike and Battle Arena (at least in-game, if you look at the stock art drawing of the Hoenn Frontier it shows the Battle Palace is on a island with only a wooden bridge giving access to it). But unlike those facilities, inside the Palace there are ponds of water, notably the battlefield has what looks to be a river path which physically separates the platform the trainer is standing on from the battlefield the Pokemon are battling, a representation of the Battle Palace gimmick where the Pokemon are essentially fighting on their own.

With that and Spenser using Water-type Pokemon as his ace maybe at one point water was going to more play into either his character or the Battle Palace (you could say the mechanic of the Battle Palace is your Pokemon "going with the flow" and when at half HP causes "the tides to turn"). While he doesn't use a Kyogre or has a connection to it (that we know), with Kyogra being essentially the Pokemon world's god of water he could simply just be using the iconography as to show his connection to water.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Why does the tail on Drifloon's head cloud flip around when it evolves? Is it just to mix up the design a bit? It's probably just to mix up the design a bit.
Well, first I think for Drifloon its meant to be pointing backwards (making it look like its moving forward) while for Drifblim is meant to be pointing forward (make it look like its being pushed back) judging by the 3D models.

I mention this because maybe that has something to do with the switching. Drifloon looks to have complete control where its going, yeah it can ride the wind currents but the dex entries seem to imply its wanderings around are driven by its curiosity. Meanwhile Drifblim just goes where the wind takes them, rarely do they choose to move a direction of their own free will. Hence, Drifloon is more often moving forward (thus the cloud tail is in the back) while Drifblim is just letting the wind takes it where it blows (the cloud tail pointing forward showing it has no urgency where its pushed even if backwards).
 
So why are Diamond & Pearl so slow, anyway? Even as a kid this bothered me, and it made me jealous of all the people slightly older than me who grew up with the Gen 3 games.

I often see it attributed to lag, but let's face it, these aren't the most graphically intensive DS games. Which is a good thing; they wisely decided to only use 3D models for blocky things to avoid that "shattered crisps" look. I especially doubt that the health bar depleting so slowly is lag, since the battles mainly consist of static images.

Instead, I think that and the surfing speed were deliberate choices that they hoped wouldn't be that big of a deal. While they'd be annoying to playtesters, the slowness isn't game-breaking, so it probably wasn't their top priority to fix. Apparently Diamond and Pearl were delayed, which is why Munchlax appeared so early... can anyone shed some light on their development cycle?
 
So why are Diamond & Pearl so slow, anyway? Even as a kid this bothered me, and it made me jealous of all the people slightly older than me who grew up with the Gen 3 games.

I often see it attributed to lag, but let's face it, these aren't the most graphically intensive DS games. Which is a good thing; they wisely decided to only use 3D models for blocky things to avoid that "shattered crisps" look. I especially doubt that the health bar depleting so slowly is lag, since the battles mainly consist of static images.

Instead, I think that and the surfing speed were deliberate choices that they hoped wouldn't be that big of a deal. While they'd be annoying to playtesters, the slowness isn't game-breaking, so it probably wasn't their top priority to fix. Apparently Diamond and Pearl were delayed, which is why Munchlax appeared so early... can anyone shed some light on their development cycle?
Being graphicaly intense isn't necessarily hand in hand with lag

That said it definitely wasn't lag, it was just a 30 FPS game. But my assumption is it was 30 FPS because they couldn't guarantee it'd run at 60 FPS; it was gamefreak's first game on the system and first time using any amount of 3D with Pokemon even if it was fairly simple. So everything is designed around this assumption and precaution. A precaution that resulted in their slowest battle engine by far.


DP's supposed delay is interesting because I remember, after someone from the helix chamber mentioned in passing not being able to find anything either, looking through just about every news site and (1) I couldn't find the originating article that confirmed the "initial" date for DP and kind of sounded like it was just a shared assumption based on an off the cuff remark related to Pokemon and (2) there was never a formal mention of a delay anywhere.

I do think there was a quiet delay just because it's really weird that FRLG & Emerald were put out in 2004, followed by nothing in 2005, and then DP in 2006. And DP does just have a feeling of "oh you had some trouble with this huh". But in terms of "official statements"? Doesn't appear to be anything.
 
That said it definitely wasn't lag, it was just a 30 FPS game. But my assumption is it was 30 FPS because they couldn't guarantee it'd run at 60 FPS; it was gamefreak's first game on the system and first time using any amount of 3D with Pokemon even if it was fairly simple. So everything is designed around this assumption and precaution. A precaution that resulted in their slowest battle engine by far.
I forgot to mention it was 30 FPS... are there any DS games that do have 60 FPS? (Animal Crossing: Wild World is slower than you remember.)
 

Dusk Mage Necrozma

formerly XenonHero126
Not sure if this even counts but I want to find something out. My USUM Pokédex has a bizarre error where Mewtwo is listed to learn a move called “English Max”:
  • It is a physical Fighting move with 100 power, 100 accuracy, and 10 PP.
  • It hits “many others”, which means foes but not allies.
  • It learns it by evolution or tutor.
  • It is overlaid on top of Signal Beam in the BP move chart.
It also gets 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt as its exclusive Z-Move, but:
  • It is a physical Fighting move with 100 power that hits Many Others, like English Max.
  • It has 10% accuracy, whereas normal Z-Moves have perfect accuracy.
  • It is based off Parabolic Charge.
1652991107906.jpeg
This is all obviously the result of some strange logistical error, but I’m very intrigued by why these particular parameters ended up here. I can guess at some of them:
  • All the 100s and 10s are probably just the result of rounding to a default number.
  • The 10% accuracy in 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt is probably English Max’s Power Points trying to be inputted into the Z-Move info, which does not list PP.
  • 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt is likely there because it is the first Z-Move alphabetically.
But everything else is baffling:
  • Why is Parabolic Charge the base move? You’d think it would be Absorb, the first move alphabetically. It is Electric type, though that might be a coincidence.
  • Why is Fighting the default type, and why Many Others?
  • Where the heck did the name “English Max” even come from?
 

Dusk Mage Necrozma

formerly XenonHero126
Also, if anybody else here has an USUM Pokédex, I would appreciate if anybody checked to see if this is universal across all printings or a one-time fluke.
 

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