National Dex General Information and Simple Questions Thread

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Speaking of bugs, I see that some progress has been made with the teambuilder (NatDex Pokémon are now visible without having to search for their names), but there are still some issues:
  • Since the teambuilder update, NatDex Pokémon no longer show any of the moves they can learn in the editor.
  • While Melmetal is properly legalized again, Unaware Clefable (and likely other transfer-only HA’s) is still unusable.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
So, just confirming, is that "there's no way National Dex Ubers will happen" or "National Ubers probably won't happen due to AG already existing"? Because, between Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Mega Rayquaza, Moody, Baton Pass, and even possibly other bans like Dynamax due to Xerneas and others, those two play quite differently, although I would assume due to both kinda assuming the "less restrictive meta" meta position.
The latter, since the player base is pretty small to begin with and the AG community decided to fill that niche due to regular, cart-based AG being extremely slim and ironically similar to cart Ubers.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
I assume those who got reqs for the Dynamax suspect test won't have to do it again, now that the ladder has been reset?
Your assumption is correct, those who have already achieved reqs on the beta ladder and posted proof in the thread do not need to achieve them once again. However, I apologize to those who were in the process of getting them.

Will there be more formats of National Dex in the future, such as UU, Ubers, RU, etc?
Depends on how much interest there is in expanding the format, but I would likely say no for the foreseeable future
 
Your assumption is correct, those who have already achieved reqs on the beta ladder and posted proof in the thread do not need to achieve them once again. However, I apologize to those who were in the process of getting them.


Depends on how much interest there is in expanding the format, but I would likely say no for the foreseeable future
I've asked this before but no one replied. What qualifies as "interest"? People having no appetite for gen7 OU will not return for this because it's not that much different. So we are expected to grind out games in OU to perhaps get tiering in the future?
 

Sputnik

Bono My Tires are Deceased
is a Contributor Alumnus
So, at the moment Return doesn't work properly because of the changes to Happiness levels and maxes out at like 62 BP iirc. Is this going to be changed in the future?
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
So, at the moment Return doesn't work properly because of the changes to Happiness levels and maxes out at like 62 BP iirc. Is this going to be changed in the future?
Since we do not change cartridge happiness cap for the move that was deleted, this will be the maximum power that Return could possibly have in these formats unfortunately. Thus indicating that Frustration will always be objectively better then Return as a result.
 
I like this. It's not on the horizon yet, but there will be future Pokemon games, and if the devs don't bow to fan outrage, we may not see the National Dex again. Right now we have Gen 1-7 and Gen 8 with separate "sets" of Pokemon you're allowed to have on cartridge, but this might get more complicated with each new generation.

A more elegant and logically consistent way of phrasing this could be to say that any Pokemon that was legally obtainable at any point in a main series game, would be allowed in NatDex. Off the top of my head this would make alternate forms like Cosplay Pikachu, LGPE Pikachu/Eevee and Spiky-Eared Pichu (lol) available, as well as previous abilities like Levitate Gengar/Flash Fire Entei etc and a few obscure Gen 2 event moves (Rapid Spin Golem, Encore Phanpy, Petal Dance on a bunch of stuff...). Of course, if you wanted to run Rapid Spin Golem or Levitate Gengar, it could only use its Gen 2 and Gen 3-6 moves respectively.

This would make move legality a bit confusing possibly, but it'd be more consistent.
I've asked this before but no one replied. What qualifies as "interest"? People having no appetite for gen7 OU will not return for this because it's not that much different. So we are expected to grind out games in OU to perhaps get tiering in the future?
I think there should be 2 nationaldex with and without Dyna because it was the only place left to use it and there are many people who want Dyna in natdex and the good thing about a simulator is that it is easy to make these partitions and make them all
 
I think there should be 2 nationaldex with and without Dyna because it was the only place left to use it and there are many people who want Dyna in natdex and the good thing about a simulator is that it is easy to make these partitions and make them all
There is still a tier with dynamax available other than national dex. Battle Stadium Singles is available on Pokemon Showdown, with the same rules as on cart.
 
OK, thanks for answering, I hope it's a joke about the AG, which is unplayable and I talked about 6vs6 not battlestadium. I find it ridiculous that you erase something from all sides just 15 days from the other ban before you have time to test it thoroughly and transforming the Natdex into gen7 ... and the fact that you do not leave the Gygamax either that are foreseeable shows how little you have thought, but I understand Smogon's policy, everything that is not exaggeratedly predictable has to be banned! I thought a simulator would give more options than GameFreak would be wrong. Thanks also
 
One last question: why couldn't you just leave the Gygamax pkmn? It would indeed be similar to Megas, right? Since they are a few pkmn in concrete and you can know by looking at the opposing team which can be the Gyga, right?
 
One last question: one of the problems I have heard most is the unpredictability since any pkmn can get big. And if only Gygamax are left? It would be a specific group of pkmn as the Mega Evolutions and you can intuit that pkmn will be Gygamax when seeing the opposite team, right?
 
I do not think it is a complex ban since the line between Gyga and Dyna is very well defined and it would be said that no pkmn gets bigger except the Gyga ... it would not be a cause for confusion since there is a list of pkmn Gyga
 
One last question: one of the problems I have heard most is the unpredictability since any pkmn can get big. And if only Gygamax are left? It would be a specific group of pkmn as the Mega Evolutions and you can intuit that pkmn will be Gygamax when seeing the opposite team, right?
Gigantamax being around but not Dynamax is similar enough to a complex ban that it would be a pretty slippery slope.
I do not think it is a complex ban since the line between Gyga and Dyna is very well defined and it would be said that no pkmn gets bigger except the Gyga ... it would not be a cause for confusion since there is a list of pkmn Gyga
This thread about Gigantamax might help answer your questions. Trying to define words like "complex" is inherently subjective, so I guess the real answer is "a lot of other people wanted to ban Gigantamax". This is my personal understanding of what's "simple" or "complex".

Very simple: Every Pokemon whose national Pokedex number is 012 (Butterfree) is banned. All other Pokemon are allowed.
Slightly complex: Regular non-Gmax Butterfree is banned. All other Pokemon (including Gmax Butterfree) are allowed.
Also slightly complex: Every Pokemon is not allowed to click the Dynamax button. They can click any other button.
More complex: Gmax Butterfree is allowed to click the Dynamax button. All other Pokemon are allowed but can't click that button.
 
Regarding your opinion, it seems to me that you are confused ... it is very easy, there is a list of Gygamax pkmn defined and the prohibition would be: "only the use of Gygamax is allowed" and any player knows what the Gyga pkmn are. I want to take it off I understand, but don't say it's "complex"egarding your opinion, it seems to me that you are confused ... it is very easy, there is a list of Gygamax pkmn defined and the prohibition would be: "only the use of Gygamax is allowed" and any player knows what the Gyga pkmn are. I want to take it off I understand, but don't say it's "complex"
 
Regarding your opinion, it seems to me that you are confused ... it is very easy, there is a list of Gygamax pkmn defined and the prohibition would be: "only the use of Gygamax is allowed" and any player knows what the Gyga pkmn are. I want to take it off I understand, but don't say it's "complex"egarding your opinion, it seems to me that you are confused ... it is very easy, there is a list of Gygamax pkmn defined and the prohibition would be: "only the use of Gygamax is allowed" and any player knows what the Gyga pkmn are. I want to take it off I understand, but don't say it's "complex"
The distinction between dynamax and gigantomax is 100% arbitrary and irrelevant. The only difference is the name and the secondary effect of one move. The fact that Gamefreak classifies them differently is irrelevant; Gamefreak has demonstrated incompetence when it comes to competative balance, and if something is determined by nothing but their word alone and not an actual significant mechanical difference than I'm pretty sure the majority of players could give a crap less what title they assign it. (well, they've demonstrated incompetence when it comes to just about everything, but that's neither here nor there)
Also can you like, double-proofread through your posts or something? I am not one to grammar-nazi but this shit is seriously a strain to try and make sense of.
 
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