Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[sealoo]

^ i dont think that team had a bad kyurem mu necessarily, at least vs the more standard set (SubRoost). My primary line for it was teleporting with slowking (takes about 40ish) into scale chomp with dice + also had zama to come in a few times in the back, but that plan got blown up by a modest ebelt set which has many shortcomings vs other things which is why it isnt the standard -- thats just tournament innovation cant be too mad about it.

I dont really like kyurem, i think it demands quite specific prep from bulkier teams because it is very difficult to limit its entry on balance staples that kinda just need to be used in order to deal with the rest of the meta (glisc / pex / alo / whip knock ferro) while requiring very little skill to use (this is immaterial but just more of a qualm of mine; it is really difficult compared to other balance breakers ala sd oger / dd z nite to "outplay" a kyurem with balance vs an opponent of roughly equal skill)

However, I think kyurem is a fine presence all things considered despite my personal distaste from a more objective lens, and this is coming from someone who has definitely played vs more kyurems in tournament than anyone else, as keeping these balance teams honest feels like a healthy trade overall for an otherwise incredibly strong archetype

--

Kyurem discussion aside, I think the meta is still in a pretty balanced state currently and have enjoyed playing / building in PL & FL

 

[Genjaja]

As the pioneer of the metagame discussion who revives this thread. I believe everything 1yr has said is true Volc sets are completely broken dnite and pex being the only mons who can beat it and even then volc can 1v1 them. The negatives impact of what ghold does far outways the good. Kyurem isn’t broken however it is a very punishing Mon.

Sorry to my peers who actually know me. I had a horrid couple of days so I’ve been on vacation chilling.

Polaro will win last chance and we will win Circuit.

 

[Comett7778]

Volc is most definitely ban worthy. Sub swarm is just stupid and negates most typical volc counters. Hell I’ve broken a Heatran with sub swarm before. And its other sets are cheesy matchup fishes, they’re not broken but they add nothing valuable to the tier in my eyes.

Also if volc is banned then maybe deo-s could be resuspected which is what I really want

 

[FirstlyMe]

Volc is most definitely ban worthy. Sub swarm is just stupid and negates most typical volc counters. Hell I’ve broken a Heatran with sub swarm before. And its other sets are cheesy matchup fishes, they’re not broken but they add nothing valuable to the tier in my eyes.

Also if volc is banned then maybe deo-s could be resuspected which is what I really want

Volc’s been in some hot water for a while now

Ngl I can see subswarm’s lack of coverage making it more widely accepted as not broken in the future.
Am I saying it’s fine in the tier?
No but also kinda yes. I feel pretty neutrally about Volc. I just spam power gem Tran and scarf shifu tho so maybe that’s why…..

But for subswarm in particular, power gem Tran, roost dnite and scarf shifu as long as the Volc hasn’t set up too much are fine checks.

But then, look at this calc:
+2 252 SpA Swarm Volcarona Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 678-798 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

I am slightly leaning towards thinking It’s Ban worthy.

To me Volc has always felt like a “team checker” on ladder alongside the likes of weather and the late dragapult, like it makes sure your team can deal with it, if your team get’s 6-0’d by Volc 9 times out of 10 then it is a bad team (against volcarona in particular at least).
Pult’s set guessing game and similar substitute shenanigans was annoying as fuck and I wanted it gone from the tier but I think volc’s kinda fine.
Especially since volc’s sets are pretty similar other than coverage. It’s not a Woger situation where it’s like cudgel then whatever 3 moves you want or a pult situation where you can be specs, wisp/twave + hex, dd, band, etc.
Few may run psychic, few may run subswarem, few may run standard qd/fire stab/Giga drain/hp ground.
But 2 moves are always locked in and that gives more than enough of a rough idea on what to do there (psychic is kinda underwhelming and is barely real).


Off topic here but fun fact: Volc get’s u turn. So I got the bright idea of making an Offesnive pivot set. Am I cooking with this?