Nature Swap (Now playable!)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Some interesting things i have found:

Breloom: with timid nature has access to the fastest spore - at 130 base speed. While it now lacks any offensive presence whatsoever it could be quite an annoying sub-seeder with poison heal.

Goth and Mag: A fast trapper is usually better than a bulky one. Sick of having a scarfer with base 60/65 speed? How does 110/115 sound? Sounds good to me. Gothitelle in particular gets my attention, as it's 'cancer' set back in OU seems more potent here (for those who don't know it's scarf goth with trick, cm, rest, attack of choice - usually psychic/shock, and targets stallmons like Chansey) especially since it's high speed means offense doesn't completely trample it. Unfortunately walls with special attacks are harder to deal with thanks to Goth's lowered SpD, but eh.

(Mega) Slowbro: Bro can do all kinds of stuff. With an adamant nature he can pull off a bulky belly drum set (despite lack of sitrus berry, mega bro seems pretty good for this). Megabro could forfeit his SpA for some SpD if he wants to do a crobro set.

Hoopa-U: Everyone here is suggesting the good ol' timid nature for that dope 170 Spa/160 Spe nasty plot badassitude, but personally i was always bugged by Hoopa's pathetic 60 defense. Sure 160 Spe sounds good, but i think it would have trouble setting up and even if it did, priority attacks would ensure Hoopa won't be staying for long. I think a bold nature would be much more effective, 80/160/130 defenses are damn fine for setting up nasty plots or even calm minds - although rest is his only recovery move. In fact he could even set up his own trick room and sweep offense. Holy shit the more i type about this guy the more i'm beginning to like him lol, im SO using bold nature nasty plot, trick room, dark pulse and psyshock hoopa people ;)

EDIT:
Common Pokemon that probably want a neutral nature:
Excadrill: Excadrill's stats are already optimal for the job, switching stats around will only make things worse for the drill.
Gengar: Although an increased speed might be useful for gengar, from what i can tell it's stats are fine the way they are.

Now that i think about it, pretty much any specialized offensive pokemon (by this i mean Pokemon with high speed, high Atk/SpA (not both), and nothing else) would prefer to have a neutral nature. So i guess that saves me from writing a long list that no one will read. Phew.
 
Last edited:
Sweeper Dragalge, Anyone?



Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Scald

If you thought Dragalge was scary in standard play, wait until you see it backed up by a blazing speed stat of 123. The tradeoff, of course, is that it's now a total glass cannon with 65/90/44 defenses, but it has a decent defensive typing and Ice Shard is the only priority move that it's weak to, so it still has some degree of survivability. As long as you keep it away from special attackers, I think it'll perform very well.
 
What about Brave Ninjask?

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- X Scissor
- Baton Pass

With its 160 base Attack, it can sweep and with just 2 Speed boosts it reaches a 502 Speed. Not one of the best sweeper, because of its weakness to SR and many other frequent attacks, but it's just funny.
 
Last edited:
Gigalith is cool, but honestly, I think that Scizor will still function best as a physical attacker. Not that a special set isn't viable, but Swords Dance seems very good in a meta where you can never be quite sure that you're hitting on the right defense to deal significant damage (and thus boosting is handy), and Bullet Punch does a fantastic job of patching up your lackluster Speed stat (in a meta where many more things can go Sanic speed). Special Scizor does get Vacuum Wave, yes, but it's only 2/3 as strong as Bullet Punch.

For what it's worth, Struggle Bug is probably better than Silver Wind, as it functionally patches up Mega Scizor's special defense to make it quite bulky on both sides.
What about a Hasty Scizor/Mega Scizor? 150 Attack and 140 Speed, what else?
 
A Jolly Charizard-Mega-X becomes just OP, because it doesn't even need to set up thanks to its 130 base speed. And also Jolly Dragonite, Hasty Aggron (If Mega is one of the fastest Pokemon of the meta, 230 base Speed, with Hasty/Naive Shuckle and Hasty Mega Steelix), Hippowdon, Doublade, Zygarde or Magnezone, Naive Sylveon, Empoleon, Florges, Goodra, Milotic, Tentacruel and many others. The possibilities in this meta are infinite, and I love it :D
 
Last edited:
Another scary thing:

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Iron Head/Iron Tail
- Swords Dance/Hone Claws

A Hone Claws set would be fun, but even without it, this thing is amazing. 170 Atk and 120 Speed for a maximum of 437 Atk and 372 Speed, this thing can shoot everything, thanks to its coverage and outspeed most of his counters.
 
So Ampharos gets a much needed boost in this meta:

"fast" amphy (95 speed)

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch

or, if you want speed at the expense of attacking power, there's always phsyical mega-amphy: (95 Atk, 165 Spe)

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Outrage
- Fire Punch

Edit: Blastiose-Mega, Camerupt-Mega, and Abomasnow-Mega get similar boosts
 
Last edited:
Another scary thing:

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Iron Head/Iron Tail
- Swords Dance/Hone Claws

A Hone Claws set would be fun, but even without it, this thing is amazing. 170 Atk and 120 Speed for a maximum of 437 Atk and 372 Speed, this thing can shoot everything, thanks to its coverage and outspeed most of his counters.
Use Swords Dance. +2 on any of those moves is stronger than +1 on their powerful, less accurate counterparts, and even before the boost, the 80BP ones have a higher average damage output anyways.

+2 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 321-378 (94.1 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 277-327 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

+1 252 Atk Mega Garchomp Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Iron Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 260-306 (76.2 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
 
If you need powerful priority, there is always the mascot to fall back on. Extremespeed from 612 Attack hurts, even without STAB.

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Brick Break / Agility

Slow as heck, frail as heck (max HP be damned) but its Extremespeed hits stupidly hard, 2HKO'ing most offensive mons. Things like Charizard just take 75% from Extremespeed.
Make sure you get rid of pink blobs (unless you have a lot of hazards - you can 2HKO Blissey with Brick Break after SR and Spikes).
 

Max Carvalho

Que os jogos comecem
Regigigas could be a thing, this meta is so interesting!
Regigigas @ Choice Specs
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Nature power
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast / Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
Knock Off too cripple Chansey, will surprese many players for sure.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regigigas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 384-452 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Regigigas Nature Power vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Against 130 SpD Slowbro:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regigigas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
EVEN PINK BLOBS:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regigigas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 384-454 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I can only thing on Chansey being able to switch in, and only with its Eviolite. Indeed, a wallbreaker. Now look at these 110/110/110 with invested HP. Not even freaking choice specs pony won't have good chances to take this out w/o rocks. Basically it can switch in on any wall w/o access to status, or just safely come from a sack and, likely, only Fighting-types will be able to RK this thing at full health (or things that resist a chosen move). Amusing.
 
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Hasty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch
- Grass Knot

Hmm. So this thing has 150 Speed now? Cool. It's as fast as Mega Aerodactyl now, but much bulkier.

Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect/Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Fire

160 SpA, 160 Speed, what more do you want?

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack

Same pinsir, but 120 Speed.

Also, which is better? They are kinda similar,

Sylveon @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power Fire
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind/Shadow Ball

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power Fire
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind/Shadow Ball

Also Hasty Mega Heracross and Naive Mega Gallade. They both get 115 Speed now.
 
Last edited:
-Mega Charizard X can give up its useless 130 Special Attack to get a neat Speed tier. Not going to declare it a good one yet, because it's going to take forever to identify all the viable Speed tiers, but at the minimum it ensures that it outspeeds base 100s. Heck, it ensures it outspeeds Arceus! And those are reliable benchmarks to some extent, due to Mew and company and Arceus having "swap has no effect" statlines.

-Mega Blastoise can jolt up to 103 Speed at the cost of its Attack. Again, pulls ahead of the likes of Mew.

-Nidoking is still largely Nidoqueen's superior. :( More importantly, it can swap its 102 Attack in place of its Speed at no real cost. Or you can boost one of your Defenses, I guess.

-Clefable is restricted to minor improvements, all around.

-Ninetales can... well, it can swap its Speed for Special Attack if it wants to emphasize the wallbreaker angle, and it can swap its Special Defense and Special Attack straight-up to hold its 100 Speed. Honestly, it's nothing particularly good here.

-Wigglytuff can swap its irrelevant Attack onto either of its Defenses or its Speed for a minor boost to its viability.

-Vileplume can swap its irrelevant Attack for its Speed. 80 Speed still isn't that great prior to Chlorophyll, but eh.

-Support Parasect can almost pretend to have access to a fast Spore. 95 Speed! Doubt anybody will care, though.

-The only thing Venomoth can do of any note is improve one of its defenses at the cost of Special Attack, if you want to emphasize it as a Quiver Dance passer.

-Dugtrio can slow down and have an actually decent Attack. Note that it gets Sucker Punch!

-Primeape's Special movepool isn't so bad, and now it can cover that end of things with a simple swap.

-Defensive Arcanine is pretty directly improved in this meta! Offensive Arcanine can hit a respectable 110 Speed if it wants to run as a fast Special attacker, too, though I doubt that'll be particularly amazing.

-People have, of course, already commented on Physical Alakazam having potential. It's too bad its primary STAB is pretty sucky, though.

-Special Machamp hooray!

-Victreebel's mixed offenses can be sacrificed for more Speed -105 Speed Special attacker sounds a lot more viable- or can be used to shore up its defenses, which is nice for a Chlorophyll sweeper.

-Wall Tentacruel can give up its 100 Speed to fix up its mediocre 65 Defense. Of course, it being a fast wall is actually one of its good points...

-Golem can sacrifice its 130 Defense to get an excellent Speed tier. It's way too easy to OHKO anyway, and it has Sturdy, so the loss is minimal, and unless 130+ is a really common Speed value (Hint: not likely) it'll pay good dividends. And it has Sucker Punch to hit any faster Pokemon there might be!

-Eeeh, Rapidash has access to minor boosts.

-Slowbro gets Iron Defense. Mega Slowbro can run as a Special wall that patches it up with Iron Defense. Weird thought. Or it can run Curse, if it wants to go Physical.

-Poor Farfetch'd. :(

-Dodrio wishes it had a Special movepool. :( Its HP is too low for a wall role, too.

-Muk can finally be a solid mixed wall -105/105/100 defensive stats!- at the cost of Attack, finally get its Special Attack up to snuff, in line with its actual movepool, or hit what I'm suspecting will actually be a mediocre Speed tier of 105. Mostly I suspect the mixed wall will be cool.

-It's not just that Cloyster can murder with Ice Shard. It can swap Defense and Speed and stop caring about Shell Smash's Speed boost! Though really I imagine Cloyster will probably usually be a Focus Sash Shell Smasher with swapped Attack/Defense.

-Gengar's Physical movepool is better than you might think. Not great, but it gets stuff like Drain Punch. Overall in practice I suspect it will suffer from all these new lightning fast things outspeeding it while it can't do much of anything really cool with the meta.

-Hypno's 115 Special Defense is wasted on it. Why not 115 Speed? Or Attack, it has a decent movepool for that...

-Kingler with 115 Speed!

-Electrode with 140 Attack! If you're Exploding anyway, why not be a slow Focus Sasher? (Because Cloyster is going to be everywhere and will KO you with Icicle Spear first, but details)

-Fast Exeggutor? I mean, it's still doubly weak to Bug, but it's support movepool might be more useful than trying to straight-up attack anyway. Subseed with Harvest and 125 Speed? Or you can patch up its Special Defense, turn it into a solid Special wall.

-Marowak could add 30 Attack... or it could jolt up to 110 Speed. Depends on what wacky things happen with Speed tiers, for which one proves better.

-You'd think Hitmonlee would be able to do something cool, but its Special movepool is crap and otherwise its statline is an almost perfect fit. Just run neutral. Hitmonchan is in a similar boat, unfortunately.

-Surprise 120 Speed Exploding Weezing? I'm not sure what Weezing can really do with the meta of worth, truthfully...

-Kangaskhan actually has a pretty decent Special movepool. Probably not a worthwhile one, but it's pretty hilariously flexible.

-The nicest thing I can say about Seaking is that it never uses its Attack anyway even though Attack is its highest stat. I guess Discharge teams appreciate directly improving it...

-It's really too bad you can't swap HP, because Starmie doesn't have anything really good it can do with swapping.

-Mr. Mime's Physical movepool is actually really diverse. Swapping Special Attack for Attack might have some utility?

-Same for Jynx. It's tempting to try to patch her Defense, but I suspect it wouldn't work out.

-Tauros has a pretty hilarious Special movepool, as well.

-Gyarados and Mega Gyarados, too. Scald everything!

-Flareon can finally become the slow Special attacker it was always meant to be! Or you could make it a fast Special attacker. Whatever. 130 Speed is probably nothing to scoff at.

-Vaporeon can lower Special Attack for more Defense. It tends to be a wallin' Pokemon anyway, so that has potential.

-Omastar with 125 Speed. It's not like it actually tanks hits that well anyway.

-SNORLAX HAS ALL THE BULK. Seriously, 160/110/110 defensive stats if it wants them. Holy crap.

-Articuno can stop pretending to be a Special wall and jolt up to 125 Speed! Probably not good enough.

-Special attacker Dragonite with 134 Speed, anyone?

-Hey, Ledian can actually almost use its Physical movepool: 110 Attack! Oh and it dies to literally anything while having a mere 85 Speed, but come on, Ledian can punch things now!

-Slow Special attacker Crobat?

-Lanturn has a really awkward stat distribution, but worst case scenario it can sacrifice Special Attack or Speed to slightly improve its Defense at minimal cost. Man, why are Gen II Pokemon so awkward to stat-swap?

-Azumarill can, of course, sacrifice whichever defensive stat it likes for a decent boost to Attack. Even just running Adamant is an extra 10x2 points to Attack.

-The nicest thing I can say about Quagsire is that it can improve its Special walling ability by sacrificing its Attack. Honestly, it's going to resent being forced to either do that or run a neutral nature. Little bit worse as a Physical wall in Nature Swap.

-Other than maybe deciding to Go Really Fast, I suspect Umbreon would rather keep its wallin' stats.

-The only really noteworthy things Forretress can do are 140 Speed hazard setter like in Stat Switch, and 140 Attack Explosion like Electrode. But with a better typing, defensively, and higher statline overall.

-I'm sorry, Mega Steelix wasn't that relevant to Stat Switch with its 230 Speed, and I doubt it'll be that relevant here. I suppose it could sacrifice Attack to shore up its Special Defense, if it wanted to try its hand at being a passive wall...

-In addition to the potential as a Special attacker people have discussed, Mega Scizor can sacrifice Defense to become a 140 Speed monster with no loss to Attack. The result is a bit frail, but if its typing makes up for it...

-Shuckle: like Stat Switch, but getting to keep a defensive stat of its choice. You could try to murder things with 230 Attack-backed Stone Edges, though. Trick Room sweeper, anyone?

-Mega Heracross can swap Defense for Speed to get 115 Speed. Potentially quite mean!

-... 120 Speed Magcargo?

-Octillery gets to sacrifice an attacking stat of its choice (hint: Attack) to get 105 Speed at no cost! Now if only 105 Speed was looking like a noteworthy Speed tier...

-Skarmory as a surprise Special wall could be a thing. I guess. But really, just run Blissey.

-Mega Houndoom is like Stat Switch Mega Houndoom, but vastly worse. Stat Switch Mega Houndoom wasn't run by anyone.

-120 Speed Donphan that can't take a hit?

-Hitmontop can sacrifice some durability to jolt up to 110 Speed. Given how often it's just a little too slow to Close Combat something to death, this might be worthwhile... assuming Speed tiers aren't bizarre.

-Miltank can give up Speed to reinforce its Special Defense some. Pretty good deal.

-Blissey with 75 Defense? Oh man. Or you can drop Speed, get 55 Defense, I guess, but I'm not sure why you're assuming your Blissey wants to engage in Special attacking shenanigans.

-Oh jeez Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar are versatile and scary.

-Mega Sceptile can stop pretending it plans to use its Attack stat to slightly bolster a defensive stat. Or it can sacrifice Special Attack and get to killing things with Leaf Blade I guess.

-Extreme Speed Belly Drum Linoone with 100 Attack doesn't necessarily miss its old Speed tier. Could be cool.

-125 Special Attack Boomburst+Heat Wave Swellow? 50 Speed is awful, mind...

-Gardevoir gets enough of a Physical movepool -Shadow Sneak, for instance- that yeah, Physical Mega Gardevoir has some potential. You do lose out on that sweet ability to bypass Substitutes, though. More quirkily, you could trade Special Attack for Speed -165 Speed is insane, and very little in the tier will be able to beat it, while 100 Special Attack is potentially acceptable if you're using Mega Gardevoir to clean out a mauled team anyway. Or you could patch its Defense and run it as a wall -it gets Wish, Will O Wisp, and a few other utility moves like Taunt. Seems a waste of a Mega Slot, though.

-Thank Arceus we're not talking Stat Switch Breloom. Even so, 130 Speed Spore is nothing to laugh at, and its Special movepool is actually adequate -it gets Vacuum Wave, for one- if it wants to run as a surprise Special attacker.

-You know, if Slaking wants it can run 150/100/160 defenses. But you'd probably rather use Snorlax if you're trying to go for a Normal-typed mixed wall.

-As pointed out by others, Ninjask swapping Attack for Speed has a lot of potential. Note that its Special movepool is garbage, so even aside from 50 Speed being too low even for a Speed Booster, Special Ninjask isn't happening.

-Well, Shedinja can go up to 90 Speed or try to utilize its Special movepool... I guess...

-Mega Sableye with crap Attack but 85 Speed. Imagine it! Almost useful!

-Mega Aggron can get 70/230/140 defenses with Filter at the cost of its offensive presence. Or you could go the Stat Switch route and have an insanely fast supportmon...

-Physical Mega Manectric? I guess?

-Well, Mega Sharpedo might as well reinforce one of its defenses by sacrificing its Special Attack...

-Wailord can do the same with Attack, and should.

-Mega Camerupt can sacrifice its Attack to get 120 Speed!

-Torkoal: 140 Speed Rapid Spinner. I guess.

-Cacturne can get 115 Speed by sacrificing its Special Attack and terrorize people! Or you could bolster one of its defenses, but I don't see why you would...

-Mega Altaria is basically directly improved (run Jolly, gain a decent base Speed), but it's also got pretty limited ability to manipulate this to its advantage.

-Seviper might as well sacrifice Special Attack for something else.

-Mega Absol might as well reinforce one of its defenses with its Special Attack. I'd recommend Defense, personally.

-Same with Mega Glalie. Or you can get its Speed up to 120, though that's probably going to be a bit low in Nature Swap.

-Relicanth with 130 Speed whamming you with Head Smash! Sure, it won't survive a hit, but since when has it done that anyway?

-FAST (MEGA) METAGROSS.

-I'm largely skipping over Ubers, but oh man I'm imagining 150 Speed Primal Groudon, having sacrificed its Special Attack to get it, and it's not pretty. Or 180 Speed Mega Rayquaza by the same logic, in AG. Yikes.

-Run Empoleon as Physical, get it 111 Speed? Maybe?

-Honchkrow probably appreciates dropping Special Attack to get some bulk. Or some Speed. 105 of whatever is OK.

-Mega Garchomp with 120 Speed.

-Fast Mega Abomasnow, whether Physical or Special, has been covered, and is neat. 132 is even higher than the semi-common 130 Speed.

-Worth commenting on Weavile entirely to point out that a fair few Pokemon can hit 130 Speed, so it's 125 Speed isn't so impressive.

-Tangrowth has excellent potential as a reasonably fast attacker (As much as 110 without compromising bulk) and even more potential as an obnoxious Regenerator mixed wall: 100/125/110 defensive stats is pretty solid.

-Hustle Togekiss has been commented on.

-Leafeon can finally be the fast Physical attacker it's been pretending it is: just drop Defense for Speed! Remember, Talonflame is banned from this, so being Grass type with garbage Defense and HP isn't as bad as it sounds.

-If Gliscor wants, it can dump some Speed to shore up its Special Defense. Slightly.

-Special Mamoswine could be interesting just for its access to Freeze Dry.

-Mega Gallade can tap most of Gardevoir's Special movepool. So that's OK.

-Dusknoir can sacrifice one of its defenses to get 135 Speed with 100 Attack. Might be worth it just to beat out the myriad 130 Speed things out there.

-Only thing worth commenting about Serperior is that it can sacrifice Speed to bolster its Special Attack. 113 is a big improvement over 75! This sounds bad, until you think of Baton Passing it some Speed.

-Emboar: Why not sacrifice your Special Attack for a stat you actually want? Or you could sacrifice Attack, either works. Too bad 123 Speed is going to be outshone by a lot.

-Samurott: 100 or 108 Speed. I guess.

-Liepard: Get some bulk, since you're Prankster anyway. Inferior to the Stat Switch version, mind...

-Zebstrika is fine with sacrificing Attack for a defensive stat. Kinda minor, overall...

-Scolipede can sacrifice Attack for some more Special bulk, if it's committed to the Baton Pass thing anyway.

-Whimsicott: Who says you were using that Speed anyway?

-Special Darmanitan!

-Alomomola loves being able to shore up its Special Defense. Its Attack is useless to it anyway.

-Special Eelektross with 115 Speed? Yes please. Or you could be Physical with 105 Speed. Either or.

-An interesting thing one could do with Haxorus is swap Attack with Speed and run Swords Dance instead of Dragon Dance. Not optimal by any stretch, but it has some potential.

-Cryogonal: Might as well sacrifice that Speed for Defense if you're going to pretend its viable anyway.

-Finally Accelgor can be the wall it was meant to be!


And then I lost interest in going over the remaining Gen V/Vi Pokemon.

Most of the big winners seem to be in Gen I, actually. And the meta looks like it's going to have insane walls and hilariously fast attackers completely breaking existing Speed tiers.
 
Hoopa U is banned

Also Cloyster is no longer quickbanned, I want to keep the banlist short as possible for release, and even if Cloyster is broken it can be discovered through play without it choking the metagame to death in its beginnings like Talonflame or Hoopa U would.
 
Last edited:
Hoopa U is banned

Also Cloyster is no longer quickbanned, I want to keep the banlist short as possible for release, and even if Cloyster is broken it can be discovered through play without it choking the metagame to death in its beginnings like Talonflame or Hoopa U would.
You probably shouldn't ban anything at this stage, i mean, have you even tested it yet?

Also something interesting to note, Steelix and Mega Steelix have the most powerful explosion, so it could be a great lead.
 
Last edited:
The only two mons Im quickbanning are things that would heavily choke early creativity and I felt would negatively impact early games for players, since I want this meta to actually get up and running- in addition to being really obviously op threats in the first place.
Hoopa is by far the most ridiculous sweeper/wallbreaker in the game, 160 speed, 170 offense, physical or special with access to nasty plot and destiny bond, without any of the regular ramifications of becoming this (most mons that hit such absurd speeds are giving up a defense stat and are weaker also). Thats not even mentioning sets like Assault Vest Impish, which exploits 80/170/130 defenses and a huge 160 atk drain punch. As for talonflame, its unquestionably the most centralizing offensive pokemon in the game thanks to its ability to hit 126 atk CB brave birds to ohko almost every other offensive pokemon in the tier, or sweep up with swords dance sets. For instance, it reliably ohkos 80hp manaphy after SR, which has 100/100 defenses.. I have seen how overpowered priority has hurt and overcentralized other metagames from very early on and I dont really want that here. I dont think such obvious threats need testing, they are on completely another level than top tier threats like Kyurem-B.

Can discuss these two mons more in pms or on my wall if you like (or if you catch me in the OM room- feedback from the OM room is partly why Cloyster isnt banned)! But lets try and avoid discussion of banned mons / banning process in the thread
 
Last edited:

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
mega camrupt is gunna be destroyin stuff left and right, taking away its abysmal speed, and giving it a nice 120 speed alongside 145 spc attack? yes please!
 
Yyyyeah, I'm really feeling Trick Room in this meta. All those bulklords that are trading up for sanic speed are gonna wish they didn't, and it's not even obviously a Trick Room team from team preview if you don't want it to be.

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- U-Turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off

Doublade @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Bold/Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Gyro Ball
- Sacred Sword

Durant @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Sassy Nature
- Hone Claws / Thunder Fang
- Iron Head
- Superpower
- X-Scissor

Probably not super great, but:

Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Toxic / Synthesis

Incidentally:

Whimsicott @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
- Memento

PRANKSTER POWER HYPE
 
Yyyyeah, I'm really feeling Trick Room in this meta. All those bulklords that are trading up for sanic speed are gonna wish they didn't, and it's not even obviously a Trick Room team from team preview if you don't want it to be.

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- U-Turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off

Doublade @ Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Bold/Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Gyro Ball
- Sacred Sword

Durant @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Sassy Nature
- Hone Claws / Thunder Fang
- Iron Head
- Superpower
- X-Scissor

Probably not super great, but:

Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Toxic / Synthesis

Incidentally:

Whimsicott @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power Fire
- Memento

PRANKSTER POWER HYPE
Holy shit, Shuckle would be totally OP under trick room :o 230/230 attack and defense? Oh my.
 
On the subject of Trick Room, rather than focusing solely on Pokémon that can abuse it, why not consider those who can set it?

Slowbro @ Leftovers / Slowbronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Seismic Toss
- Slack Off

95/110/100 bulk (95/180/130 Mega) and 30 Speed. Oblivious for compatibility with Seismic Toss (because its physical STAB is not worth the inaccuracy) and immunity to Taunt. It gets recovery as well.


Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Baton Pass
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

40/90/120 bulk and 65 Speed. Uses Baton Pass and Healing Wish to pass Trick Room to others.


Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- U-turn
- Roost

65/95/70 bulk (65/70/95 if Sassy) and 70 Speed. Not very slow and not very bulky, but it can inflict consistent damage with Night Shade, pass its Trick Room turns with U-turn, keep itself alive with Roost, and avoid Taunt through Magic Bounce.


Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Baton Pass
- Psychic / Protect
- Wish

65/110/95 bulk and 60 Speed. Uses Baton Pass to pass Trick Room, Wish for healing, and Magic Bounce to deflect Taunt.


Swoobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- U-turn
- Roost
- Knock Off

67/114/55 bulk (67/55/114 if Sassy) and 55 Speed. Similar to Xatu but less bulk on its weaker defense and no Magic Bounce. Fortunately, it gets nice utility in Knock Off and a neat little surprise in Unaware.


Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Memento

60/85/116 bulk and 75 Speed. Not that slow, but it has Prankster Taunt and can pass to an abuser through U-turn or Memento.


Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Night Shade
- Recover

100/85/105 bulk and 60 Speed. Similar to Slowbro but with different typing and stats, Night Shade over Seismic Toss, and a different ability.


Klinklang @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 1 Spe (HP Ice) or 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe (HP Fire)
- Trick Room
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice/Fire]

Quiet nature to minimize Speed (base 70) and boost Sp.Atk (base 90). More of an offensive Trick Room setter because of Klinklang's shallow movepool. Nonetheless, it has respectable bulk (60/115/85), is pure Steel, and can pass Trick Room through Volt Switch.


Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect

With Bold nature, Aromatisse's stats remain unchanged (101/72/89 bulk with 29 Speed). Pure Fairy, immune to Taunt thanks to Aroma Veil, can heal itself and others through Wish.


That's all I find worth mentioning, but perhaps there are others...
 
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Speed
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball
- Recover/Calm Mind

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Speed
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind


Okay. Anyone who doesn't know this metagame will say "HAHAHA TRICK ROOM ALAKAZAM SO DUMB" and get outspeed and say "WTF MY POKE IS SLOWER!?" in the next turn.
 
On the subject of Trick Room, rather than focusing solely on Pokémon that can abuse it, why not consider those who can set it?

Slowbro @ Leftovers / Slowbronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Seismic Toss
- Slack Off

95/110/100 bulk (95/180/130 Mega) and 30 Speed. Oblivious for compatibility with Seismic Toss (because its physical STAB is not worth the inaccuracy) and immunity to Taunt. It gets recovery as well.


Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Baton Pass
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

40/90/120 bulk and 65 Speed. Uses Baton Pass and Healing Wish to pass Trick Room to others.


Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Night Shade
- U-turn
- Roost

65/95/70 bulk (65/70/95 if Sassy) and 70 Speed. Not very slow and not very bulky, but it can inflict consistent damage with Night Shade, pass its Trick Room turns with U-turn, keep itself alive with Roost, and avoid Taunt through Magic Bounce.


Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Baton Pass
- Psychic / Protect
- Wish

65/110/95 bulk and 60 Speed. Uses Baton Pass to pass Trick Room, Wish for healing, and Magic Bounce to deflect Taunt.


Swoobat @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- U-turn
- Roost
- Knock Off

67/114/55 bulk (67/55/114 if Sassy) and 55 Speed. Similar to Xatu but less bulk on its weaker defense and no Magic Bounce. Fortunately, it gets nice utility in Knock Off and a neat little surprise in Unaware.


Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Memento

60/85/116 bulk and 75 Speed. Not that slow, but it has Prankster Taunt and can pass to an abuser through U-turn or Memento.


Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Night Shade
- Recover

100/85/105 bulk and 60 Speed. Similar to Slowbro but with different typing and stats, Night Shade over Seismic Toss, and a different ability.


Klinklang @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 1 Spe (HP Ice) or 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 0 Spe (HP Fire)
- Trick Room
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice/Fire]

Quiet nature to minimize Speed (base 70) and boost Sp.Atk (base 90). More of an offensive Trick Room setter because of Klinklang's shallow movepool. Nonetheless, it has respectable bulk (60/115/85), is pure Steel, and can pass Trick Room through Volt Switch.


Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect

With Bold nature, Aromatisse's stats remain unchanged (101/72/89 bulk with 29 Speed). Pure Fairy, immune to Taunt thanks to Aroma Veil, can heal itself and others through Wish.


That's all I find worth mentioning, but perhaps there are others...
Cofagrigus could be a good setter with access to memento and toxic spikes, Diancie could also be useful with stealth rock and a powerful explosion (if you opt for the required nature).
 
Not sure how good this is, but I thought I'd post it anyways


Aggron @ Hard Stone / Life Oeb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Hone Claws

Meet Hasty Aggron, aka Tyrantrum on roids. Seriously, this thing is absurdly fast, reaching a grand total of 180 Speed. It also has access to Hone Claws to boost the power of its attacks, and make Head Smash more accurate. I can see this thing doing a lot of damage to many teams. Although it does have a unfortunate weakness to priority
 
Not sure how good this is, but I thought I'd post it anyways


Aggron @ Hard Stone / Life Oeb
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Hone Claws

Meet Hasty Aggron, aka Tyrantrum on roids. Seriously, this thing is absurdly fast, reaching a grand total of 180 Speed. It also has access to Hone Claws to boost the power of its attacks, and make Head Smash more accurate. I can see this thing doing a lot of damage to many teams. Although it does have a unfortunate weakness to priority
Try to megaevolve it lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top