Nature Swap [Talonflame unbanned!]

really liking the idea behind this OM, it proves how little changes can make for a drastically different metagame. havent exactly got the time to go too in depth on this post so ill just drop this one set ive been thinking about for now:

Stats: 110/59/150/45/49/35
Or
Stats: 59/49/150/45/110/35

both spreads sacrifice your pretty good attack stat for either solid HP to perfectly complement ur titanic defense stat or go for a more mixed defensive spread to better check special mons like mega gard or latios. The lack in attack shouldn't really be a big concern, especially if youre using this on stall or semi stall, but the great typing and defensive stats more than make up for it imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nv
imo the neutral natures should switch HP and one of the other stats

here are some of the main concerns
1. takes away from the flavor of the om
sure, maybe if the 10% buffs/drops still applied since increasing hp is kinda weird, but in the current state of the meta, it's really only just switching 2 stats, which fits perfectly with swapping hp

2. some mons won't want to swap stats
This really doesn't apply at all. The vast majority of Pokemon have at least 2 stats that are equal to each other which means they can just swap those, and most, if not all of the other mons have 2 stats that are so close that switching them would have basically no effect.
Pokemon that would have to change their stats in the OU tier: Mega Charizard Y, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Hippowdon, KyuB, LandoT, Mega Lopunny, Scizor, Slowbro, Thundurus, Tornadus, Volcanion, and Weavile

Here are all the changes that would happen to them, if you wanted to keep them as close to the original as possible
Char Y: 104 attack/100 speed - obvious buff here, theres no reason not to at least do this
Excadrill: 60 defense/65 spdef - basically no change
Garchomp: 108 hp/102 speed, 95 def/85 spdef, 80 spa/85 spdef - the first option leaves greatly helps with its speed tier while only dropping HP a little, and the second/third don't matter much
Hippo: 68 spatk/47 speed - speed buff is a positive thing and it didnt use spatk
KyuB: 125 hp/120 spatk, 100 def/95 speed - the first one is a pretty neutral change and the second one is advantageous with the jump in speed
LandoT: 89 hp/90 defense - no difference lol
Mega Lop: 94 def/96 spdef - no difference
Scizor: 70 hp/80 spdef, 70 hp/65 def - first one is a general increase in bulk, second one is another speed increase at the cost of a little HP
Slowbro: 75 attack/30 speed - its not slow as shit anymore and the attack never mattered
Thundurus: 79 hp/80 spdef- no difference
Tornadus: 79 hp/80 def - no difference
Volcanion: 80 hp/90 spdef, 80 hp/70 speed - same as Scizor, either increase bulk or increase speed a little
Weavile: 70 hp/85 spdef - again, another general increase in bulk

Ferrothorn is the only one that would go through any real change at all thats not necessarily positive, but switching its 131 def with 116 spdef can be useful for a specially defensive build, and switching its 74 hp with 94 attack means a sizable increase in bulk at a cost of some attack. If Gyro Ball isn't on the set, switching its 54 spdef with 20 speed doesn't really change from its original except for outspeeding some defensive mons i guess


3. Makes it a pet mod
Similarly to enchanted items, it wouldn't be a pet mod because just like how all abilities correspond to an item in EI, every combination of 2 stats is covered in this.
In fact, each of the neutral natures is already linked to a specific stat so choosing which natures go to each stat wouldn't even be subjective

Hardy would switch HP/Attack, Docile would switch HP/Defense etc
Well explained. I still believe that HP swap should be applied in this meta as I don't think the first two points really hinder the meta that much, but I can't explain anything for the third point. This post clearly explained why there should be a HP swap I think.

On the other hand, you get a MUCH more possibility with HP swap. The only downside is probably too much possibility = more unpredictability, makes it harder to get into the meta (look at BH with it's endless possibilities).
 
Azumarill was already mentioned earlier in the thread, but lets talk about the other Huge Power Rabbit, Diggersby.

VS

Naughty Nature:
85/77/77/50/56/78 100/80/80/60/50/50
While Diggersby is weaker than Azumarill, It is faster and blessed by the fact that it gets swords dance, allowing it to out damage Naughty Banded Azumarill and Jolly Banded Kyurem when fighting Relaxed Chansey almost 100% of the time, even with Superpower.

Calcs
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 484-569 (68.7 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Chansey: 448-528 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
I asked urkerab to test HP swap in rom and turns out it works, both in megas and non-megas. Special thanks to, again, urkerab for coding it and Icemaster523 for helping me bug testing.

The current Nature Swap in rom now has HP swap implemented, so nv if you disagree with this change you can always ask urkerab to change it back, but if you like it, you should have "HP Swap Implemented" in thread title.

Currently megas are coded to use the base form's HP, so it's NOT a bug if the HP doesn't change after megaevo, same as the mega mechanic in Stat Switch meta. For example Quirky (swaps HP and SpD) Mega Diancie would still have 150 base HP after megaevo, not 110.

Again, even though I've bug tested it, I'm still not sure if there's any bug or not. So guys PLEASE test it and report us if you found bugs.
 
posting mons

65/80/70/40/70/140 ---- 75/85/30/55/65/200 ---- 20/10/230/10/5/230
This reminds me of Stat Switch in that a lot of slow, bulky hazard setters with Sturdy can become fast suicide leads for offensive teams. And there are a lot to choose from too. They also have a degree of unpredictability too: with such a high raw stat, they can switch it instead into Attack or Special Defense to surprise you.


61/160/45/50/50/90
Still relatively fast after a Speed Boost but with a lot of power to revenge kill and clean with, although it has no coverage moves really. Plus Talonflame looks like it's gonna be really good. It might be effective against certain offensive teams, especially ones with lots of Pokemon trading Defense for Speed.


50/180/90/85/45/70

Cloyster looks like it can be horrifying given the right circumstances. There will definitely be a lot of speed demons in this metagame, but if they are dealt with, this looks like it could a scary late game sweeper. It's much weaker to priority too, though, and the defense drop pretty much necessitates that it runs a Focus Sash.

78/126/71/74/69/81
With a lot of bulky Pokemon shedding their defenses to become fast offensive threats, Talonflame looks like it could be really effective. With that buffed attack, Choice Band and Bulky SD sets become way more threatening. Not only that, Talonflame can still use its Stat Switch set: a SpDef Bulk Up set with 78/81/71/74/126/69 stats that is more effective against bulkier teams. Overall, it looks like Talonflame may be one of the most influential Pokemon in the meta.



78/100/61/50/61/70

Noticeably stronger but will still struggle to sweep with just Extreme Speed. It's still Linoone so it's obviously not going to be very effective but it's the only Extreme Speed user besides Togekiss that really benefits from this metagame so I figured I would mention it.


20/230/10/10/230/5

Say hello to the metagame's most viable EPIC Assault Vest user. It actually takes special attacks pretty well and can hit back pretty hard too. It actually hits almost as hard as some of OU's Choice Banders, plus it can change moves. Assault Vest lets it pivot in on special attackers and Knock them Off, just like any good Assault Vest user, although it can actually OHKO a lot of frailer attackers. Just watch out for Psyshock and Secret Sword. For real though, something like this might actually be viable with cleric support, as Shuckle doesn't have that much HP and is vulnerable to status and hazards. And since it instantly loses to anything with a physical attack, you need to scout possible mixed/physical attackers (which could be anywhere in a metagame like this).


I'm just not gonna post any HP swapping sets yet. It opens up a ton of possibilities and makes the metagame way bulkier.
 
posting mons

65/80/70/40/70/140 ---- 75/85/30/55/65/200 ---- 20/10/230/10/5/230
This reminds me of Stat Switch in that a lot of slow, bulky hazard setters with Sturdy can become fast suicide leads for offensive teams. And there are a lot to choose from too. They also have a degree of unpredictability too: with such a high raw stat, they can switch it instead into Attack or Special Defense to surprise you.


61/160/45/50/50/90
Still relatively fast after a Speed Boost but with a lot of power to revenge kill and clean with, although it has no coverage moves really. Plus Talonflame looks like it's gonna be really good. It might be effective against certain offensive teams, especially ones with lots of Pokemon trading Defense for Speed.


50/180/90/85/45/70

Cloyster looks like it can be horrifying given the right circumstances. There will definitely be a lot of speed demons in this metagame, but if they are dealt with, this looks like it could a scary late game sweeper. It's much weaker to priority too, though, and the defense drop pretty much necessitates that it runs a Focus Sash.

78/126/71/74/69/81
With a lot of bulky Pokemon shedding their defenses to become fast offensive threats, Talonflame looks like it could be really effective. With that buffed attack, Choice Band and Bulky SD sets become way more threatening. Not only that, Talonflame can still use its Stat Switch set: a SpDef Bulk Up set with 78/81/71/74/126/69 stats that is more effective against bulkier teams. Overall, it looks like Talonflame may be one of the most influential Pokemon in the meta.



78/100/61/50/61/70

Noticeably stronger but will still struggle to sweep with just Extreme Speed. It's still Linoone so it's obviously not going to be very effective but it's the only Extreme Speed user besides Togekiss that really benefits from this metagame so I figured I would mention it.


20/230/10/10/230/5

Say hello to the metagame's most viable EPIC Assault Vest user. It actually takes special attacks pretty well and can hit back pretty hard too. It actually hits almost as hard as some of OU's Choice Banders, plus it can change moves. Assault Vest lets it pivot in on special attackers and Knock them Off, just like any good Assault Vest user, although it can actually OHKO a lot of frailer attackers. Just watch out for Psyshock and Secret Sword. For real though, something like this might actually be viable with cleric support, as Shuckle doesn't have that much HP and is vulnerable to status and hazards. And since it instantly loses to anything with a physical attack, you need to scout possible mixed/physical attackers (which could be anywhere in a metagame like this).


I'm just not gonna post any HP swapping sets yet. It opens up a ton of possibilities and makes the metagame way bulkier.
In the OP it says Talonflame is banned
 
As you know, HP swaps don't affect the HP of a Mega forme. This means that if you swap HP with a stat that goes up with you Mega evolve, then you lose the benefit of that stat change. On the other hand, if you swap HP with a stat that goes down, then you avoid the penalty. For example, Heracross's stats are 80 / 125 / 75 / 40 / 95 / 85. A Serious nature would swap HP and Speed: 85 / 125 / 75 / 40 / 95 / 80. Now mega evolving to Heracross-Mega keeps Heracross's 85 HP stat, so it ends up with 85 / 185 / 115 / 40 / 105 / 80. Similarly, Serious Mega Sableye would keeps its base HP and speed of 50, while Serious Mega Garchomp would have a base HP of 102 and a Speed of 108, and Quirkly Mega Diancie would have a base HP of 150 and Special Defense of 50.
 
If HP nature swaps became a thing I could only imagine the havoc Shuckle would create. Assuming I'm understanding this correctly Shuckle could get 230/10/230/10/20/5 base stats with a Quirky nature (or be specially oriented with Docile nature). Pair that up with a Relaxed Chansey or Impish Blissey with Wish support and things could get ridiculous...maybe. Maybe I'm just overhyping but it would be interesting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nv
After a quite long discussion in ps chat, nv and I have decided that HP swapping won't happen because of some reasons. Tagging urkerab to remove it he haven't.

1. It complicates the meta. Megas using base form's HP is the reason why it's complicated. Even though megas in Stat Switch uses the base form HP too, Stat switch have a fixed stat swap, where Nature Swap doesn't have a fixed stat swap. This makes a confusing stat changes for megas and base forms. A good OM shouldn't be complicated so we decided it isn't happening.

2. Takes away the flavor of the OM. We understand bp scrub argument about this because we removed the 10% buff/debuff. But now we are considering to have the 10% buff/debuff back because that way, we have all the flavor of the OM back and make each Natures have their own uses, not having complaints like "Bold and Lonely doing the same thing is silly."

What we're doing is basically to take back all the original flavor of the meta. Now we just need input for the 10% buff/debuff need to happen or not.
 

Dr. Phd. BJ

LuckE n BAD
Honestly, why can't there be a Nature Swap meta without hp, and with hp? This way people that prefer hp swap can still play with it, and people that don't want hp swap can play without it. It could be called Nature Swap (obviously) and Nature Swap + HP swap.
 
Honestly, why can't there be a Nature Swap meta without hp, and with hp? This way people that prefer hp swap can still play with it, and people that don't want hp swap can play without it. It could be called Nature Swap (obviously) and Nature Swap + HP swap.
tell that to the Cross Evolution team :}
 

nv

The Lost Age
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Driver Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
But now we are considering to have the 10% buff/debuff back because that way, we have all the flavor of the OM back and make each Natures have their own uses, not having complaints like "Bold and Lonely doing the same thing is silly."
After some deliberation, I am making it official that the 10% buff/debuff is back (tagging urkerab to implement this back onto ROM). As Chopin said, this brings back on the flavor of the original idea of this metagame and looking back, I messed up by ever getting rid of it and considering the HP swap, but now we can move forward and cultivate this meta like it should be. Speaking of cultivating, I have some big sets to post...


68 / 85 / 65 / 165 / 100 / 135
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt / Calm Mind

Mega Gardevoir now sits at a better Speed tier while being able to be the outstanding wallbreaker it is in standard play. Sadly, it has to cut into its special bulk, but that can be mitigated with Calm Mind.


75 / 110 / 110 / 80 / 105 / 110
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost

Another instance of a Mega appreciating its new Speed tier. With Dragon Dance and its new base 110 Speed stat, Altaria is bound to be a major threat in Nature Swap.


70 / 20 / 100 / 145 / 105 / 120
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice / Toxic / Stealth Rock

Mega Camerupt can now make use of its high, yet unused, Attack stat to become a very powerful sweeper and cleaner thanks to Sheer Force + the ability to tank most priority hits with its natural bulk.
 
After some deliberation, I am making it official that the 10% buff/debuff is back (tagging urkerab to implement this back onto ROM). As Chopin said, this brings back on the flavor of the original idea of this metagame and looking back, I messed up by ever getting rid of it and considering the HP swap, but now we can move forward and cultivate this meta like it should be. Speaking of cultivating, I have some big sets to post...


68 / 85 / 65 / 165 / 100 / 135
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt / Calm Mind

Mega Gardevoir now sits at a better Speed tier while being able to be the outstanding wallbreaker it is in standard play. Sadly, it has to cut into its special bulk, but that can be mitigated with Calm Mind.


75 / 110 / 110 / 80 / 105 / 110
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost

Another instance of a Mega appreciating its new Speed tier. With Dragon Dance and its new base 110 Speed stat, Altaria is bound to be a major threat in Nature Swap.


70 / 20 / 100 / 145 / 105 / 120
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice / Toxic / Stealth Rock

Mega Camerupt can now make use of its high, yet unused, Attack stat to become a very powerful sweeper and cleaner thanks to Sheer Force + the ability to tank most priority hits with its natural bulk.
That megarupt set sounds absolutely brutal, 145 with sheer force is no joke. I think eruption is actually not worth it on this set, as at 150 power vs fire blast's 143 it's not worth it after even minimal damage. being able to run coverage for balloontran/ground immune fire resists/etc seems far more worth it. Fire blast/earth power/flash cannon(hp-x)/sub(sr) would be a much more flexible set.
 

55/50/115/130/50/75

It has a lot of competition as a Water type, but Kingler's power is hard to ignore. It has a small special movepool, but enough to abuse Sheer Force with and deal some serious damage. Scald and Ice Beam are its main options, with Ancient Power or Mud Shot to hit Volcanion with. It even has Agility for sweeping lategame. But no coverage really hurts, cause it can't really do much to most Water types, so it needs a handful of support. Still, I think it's the Sheer Force user that gains the most from this metagame.


100/164/71/95/120/150
This actually seems like a fucking issue. It outspeeds most of the metagame naturally, and basically everything after a Dragon Dance. Or you can just run 4 attacks and beat everything with your coverage. It has a degree of versatility too: Regular Tyranitar looks pretty viable as well using Choice sets or Dragon Dance, the plain support set, or even a special set. Mega Tyranitar seems way more threatening though, thanks to that delicious speed tier. It looks like one of the strongest offensive Pokemon and basically necessitates running Mach Punch on some teams.


115/140/40/55/55/130
Rhyperior is in a similar vein. Much like Tyranitar, it's a speedy Rock type with great coverage options and versatility. It doesn't have as good of a speed tier or Dragon Dance, but it makes up for it with stab on Earthquake and Swords Dance. Once again, it's capable of running defensive sets. Rock-types seem to benefit a lot from this metagame, as they always seem to have a high Defense stat to throw around. So there are a ton of alternative choices like Golem, Gigalith, and Regirock, but I think Rhyperior's probably one of the best choices offensively.



Doublade has a lot of choices. Its main niche (in OU at least) is as a bulky wall on stall to check certain fighting types. But it also can see use as a Swords Dance sweeper making use of Shadow Sneak, and in Nature Swap, it can alter its stats to make better use of that. It has a few good spreads it can use to effect, too:

59/150/110/45/49/35: Offensive sweeper relying on Shadow Sneak, similar to the standard SD set.
59/110/49/45/150/35: Pursuit trapper. Be wary of strong Psyshocks.
59/49/150/45/110/35: Mixed wall for use on stall teams. Extremely passive but super bulky.
59/110/35/45/49/150: The absolute madman set. Revenge kill, SD, or use Destiny Bond.


80/120/65/80/70/100

Tentacruel could be a deceptively good attacker in this metagame. Water/Poison coverage amplified by Swords Dance is very good, hitting a lot of targets neutrally. Knock Off adds utility and rounds off the coverage decently well, allowing you to remove Leftovers from Ferrothorn. The main issue with a set like this is the relatively low speed and bulk, especially by this metagame's standards. As such, this set will mostly be reserved to breaking through slower weakened teams. But it has a lot of surprise factor and adds a completely new direction to an underutilized Pokemon.
 
Ok hold up:


Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash

180 Speed skill link kings rock cloyster. This will be extremely annoying to face


Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage
- Iron Head

How tf is this thing not banned yet. 120 speed choice band with 170 attack


Hoopa @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyperspace Hole
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast

150 sp. attack with 110 or 130 speed. with an insane move pool. This is just an example set
 

lost heros

Meme Master
is a Pre-Contributor
Ok hold up:


Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Shell Smash

180 Speed skill link kings rock cloyster. This will be extremely annoying to face


Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Outrage
- Iron Head

How tf is this thing not banned yet. 120 speed choice band with 170 attack


Hoopa @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyperspace Hole
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast

150 sp. attack with 110 or 130 speed. with an insane move pool. This is just an example set
While yes cloyster will be incredibly annoying with King's rock with 41% flinch chance, I think it's better off running the standard focus sash with a Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def) and Shell Smash. As even with the new speed tiers being totally crazy, a +2 Cloyster will out speed everything lower than 168 Spe. I think a +2 180 Atk might just be a bit more intimidating. +2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 420-495 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Also the reason Kyurem-Black hasn't been banned yet is because the speed tiers are totally out of wack here.
 
Umm people talking about Kyurem-B and I understand but I think Mega Garchomp is just as scary. Able to replicate the 170 atk and 120 speed combo and have the advantage of Swords Dance. That's scary. It instantly outspeeds every fairy that was a guaranteed check (mega diancie included)



------>108/170/115/92/95/120
Garchomp-Mega @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Iron Head
- Dragon Claw/Fire Fang

Now changes from Defensive Team breaker to full on sweeper. After a Sword Dance and Mega Evolve, he threatens everything

You can now also pair it with SandStorm and it actually has a chance to sweep.

EDIT:


Mega Abomasnow also becomes a monster. Able to throw away either of it's attack stats for a base 132 speed and go either full physical or full special. That's awesome. Physical has the advantage of Swords Dance.

-------->90/30/105/132/105/132
Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

------->90/132/105/30/105/132
Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer/ Seed Bomb
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance/Ice Shard
- Earthquake
 
Last edited:

Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere

79/78/120/135/115/103

Nothing to write home about, but 103 Speed is in a comfortable position to outspeed Pokemon that opt to not go full Speed. It can also do fast Rapid Spin. Of course, you can switch Defense with Speed if you want a turbo tortoise.


Goodra @ Assault Vest / Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor

Goodra has a lot of options for stat switching. Going Rash gives it a massive 150 SpA to nuke things down. Bold patches up Goodra's defense, allowing it to stay a lot longer (especially with support). Going full Attack is possible as well because of Goodra's good physical moves and Sap Sipper.


Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

90/132/105/30/105/132

This is actually pretty scary. Snow Warning even prevents Focus Sash/Sturdy attempts to break its sweep. Mega Abomasnow can also go full special with never-miss Blizzard, Giga Drain, and Focus Blast for coverage. Keep your opponent guessing until you press that Swords Dance button.




Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature Power
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Filler

110/80/110/160/110/100

That's Tri-Attack coming from 160 SpA. Slow Start doesn't reduce special attack, so you can fire away any time.
 
Last edited:

78/159/78/104/115/100
Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Roost
Zard-Y now spams Flare Blitz instead of Fire Blast, to surprise special walls. Between Dragon Dance and sun boosts, Flare Blitz is insanely powerful (2HKOing Relaxed Chansey after 1 DD). For more power, you can try Swords Dance and 2HKO the entire meta after a boost, as if +1 Flare Blitz wasn't painful enough.

There's also the Regis (Rock and Ice):

80/200/100/50/100/50
Regirock @ Lum Berry / Life Orb / Normal Gem
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Earthquake / Drain Punch / Power-Up Punch
- Explosion / Power-Up Punch
- Rock Polish


80/50/100/200/100/50
Regice @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Rock Polish

200 base Attack/Special Attack (possibly boosted by Life Orb) hurts. Now add the boost of Rock Polish and you'll need fast Pokémon to revenge them.
 
YES it won the vote. I'm so happy with the OM choices this month!


60/70/125/65/105/90

Roserade is one of a few bulky Spikes setters with reliable recovery. It has a lot to love as a defensive Pokemon, like useful abilities and a wide pool of support moves, like Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, Stun Spore and Aromatherapy. Grass/Poison can be a decent defensive type too. The main issues with Roserade are that it's extremely passive, and the competition it faces from other Grass-types. Amoonguss has a bit more offensive presence and Regenerator, Chesnaught can acheive similar mixed defenses and Spike up all the same, and Ferrothorn is still good as ever. Hopefully Roserade can distinguish itself with its unique support characteristics.



Lots of people have mentioned Mega Gardevoir, and for good reason. Any Pokemon with base stats that high to reallocate is definitely worth a mention, and this one is no exception. I've seen mention of fast Mega Gardevoir sets, and physical ones too, but I don't think that's all Mega Gardevoir is capable of.

68/165/65/85/135/100: Physical Mega Gardevoir seems a bit viable. It trades Psyshock, Focus Blast, and Calm Mind for a stronger Fairy STAB, elemental coverage, and weak priority. The main draw here is that now its best Psychic move is Zen Headbutt, and it lacks a strong coverage move like Focus Blast.
68/85/65/165/100/135: Probably the closest to standard Mega Gardevoir, but much faster. 135 is a solid speed tier, but it's still slower than most leads. This definitely looks like it will be the standard set, though.
68/85/165/65/135/100: This set faces a lot of competition from other Fairy and Psychic types, but Mega Gardevoir is among the bulkiest. It aims to be a cleric that can support the team with Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, and Body Slam paralysis. Speaking of which, Pixilate Body Slam lets it maintain a decent offensive presence whilst crippling offensive Pokemon. The main flaw here is that Psychic/Fairy isn't a great defensive type, but Mega Gardevoir hopes to make that up with sheer bulk.
68/85/100/165/135/65: Self-Trick Room setter. Click Trick Room and begin tearing through offensive teams. This seems like it would be good against fast offensive Pokemon, but Mega Gardevoir's speed isn't all that low so it would still be outsped by some common defensive Pokemon in Trick Room. Not to mention Chansey, which is the fastest Pokemon in Trick Room.


78/130/111/100/85/130
Here's another scary Dragon Dancer, now that it has access to a higher speed tier. With the increased average speed in this metagame, that may not be that important of a change, but Charizard is now capable of outspeeding all but the fastest Shuckles after a Dragon Dance. It even has a bulkier spread (78/130/111/85/130/100) which is arguably better than the fast one. Dragon/Fire is a solid defensive type, and with its Special Defense buffed, it can set up on passive Water types much easier, or just Will-O-Wisp threats.


95/80/135/110/80/100

Salamence is still mostly outclassed by Dragonite offensively, but now it has the ability to swap its Attack and Defense to become as bulky as its Mega Evolution, except with the ability to hold Leftovers, and always have Intimidate. This lets it act as a possible very bulky Defogger who can check Ground, Fire, and Grass types. Dragon/Flying is a pretty decent defensive type in spite of the Stealth Rock and 4x Ice weakness, and Salamence can make good use of it while still maintaining an offensive presence with moves like Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast, and Hydro Pump.
 
/ds Attack >100, Specialattack >100, all

(And then remove the Ubers)

Mega Abomasnow

Already been covered better by other people. Potentially lightning-fast and still hard-hitting.

Mega Absol

To the best of my awareness, Mega Absol never actually uses 115 Special Attack. Can be used to patch one of its defenses, giving it enough bulk to actually be reasonably safe trying to set up a Swords Dance sweep... maybe. Given the crazy hard-hitting stuff running around, maybe not.

Mega Altaria

Mega Altaria sometimes run mixed coverage to beat stuff like Skarmory, but if you're avoiding going mixed anyway, or just want Mega Altaria to burn through offensive teams, then swapping an offensive stat for Speed is basically a pure upgrade.

Archeops

Might as well throw its 110 Special Attack over one of its defensive stats.

Azelf

Some Azelf run mixed, some don't. For the ones that don't, free boost to a defensive stat!

Mega Blastoise

You're not using that 103 Attack anyway, and 100 is still a meaningful Speed tier because of stuff like Mew. Now, both Defense and Special Defense are higher on Mega Blastoise, but running Timid is basically a direct upgrade to Mega Blastoise.

Cacturne

Sacrifice Special Attack for bulk or for Speed. Cacturne will probably still be pretty meh, but hey, it's got some potential.

Mega Camerupt

Some actual Speed! You weren't using that Attack anyway.

Mega Charizard X

The biggest bang for your buck is probably sacrificing Special Attack for Special Defense. Depending on how Speed tiers work out, it might make more sense to give yourself 130 Speed instead, though.

Mega Charizard Y

Biggest bang for your buck is, saccing Attack for Defense. This... is unlikely to save you from Rock Slide/Stone Edge. Probably better off sticking with the usual Timid -though note that until you Mega Evolve you'll only have 84 Speed!

Mega Diancie

Actually usually runs mixed, but if you're willing to abandon that, 160 Speed is no joke. Or you could patch up one of the defenses?

Eelektross

One of Eelektross' main issues is that painful 50 Speed. Now it can jump to over 100 at little actual cost!... but it's probably still dubious to use.

Mega Garchomp

120 Speed!

0- SpA Mega Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Skarmory: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is Jolly Mega Garchomp attacking a Skarmory that's decided to swap its Attack to its Special Defense for some ungodly reason. Note how close this is.

0- SpA Mega Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 178-210 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If Skarmory does nothing to boost its Special Defense, Mega Garchomp can still do its usual thing of Fire Blasting Skarmory out of its existence, 92 Special Attack or no.

Mega Glalie

Well. Raising its Speed to 120, or patching one of its defenses is nice?...

Honchkrow

With a base HP of 100, Honchkrow can actually pull off a passable wall attempt by swapping its 125 Attack onto one of its defenses, or swap its 105 Special Attack, either way. Alternatively, you might be able to pull off a fast Nasty plot sweeper by giving it 125 Speed.

Hoopa-Confined

Patching its Defense would help it a lot, as would raising its Speed tier to 110. Still hampered by its typing, but potentially a lot more useful.

Hydreigon

Mostly notable for being able to push it above 100 Speed. Its stats are actually sufficiently close to each other that swaps aren't really a big deal. Though if you're running some kind of Physical stallbreaker, you probably might as well swap Attack with Special Attack instead.

Infernape

Get it some free bulk! Well, unless you were planning on going mixed, in which case it's not so free.

Kyurem

Jolt to 130 Speed or bolster one of its defensive stats -unless Kyurem-Black gets banned anyone running base Kyurem is probably after it for its walling ability, so defensive stats are probably the thing to go for.

Kyurem-Black, meanwhile, has been covered by other people better than I am interested in doing.

Landorus-Therian

For fast U-Turn sets, being able to convert Special Attack into "actually above 100 Speed" is nice. For other sets, a free boost to Special Defense (Or Defense, I guess) has its good points. Alternatively, you can go for 145 Special Attack.

252+ SpA Life Orb Landorus-T Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 227-269 (66.5 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 251-296 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's not actually that far behind Landorus-Incarnate's Sheer Force-boosted attacks at that point. Slower, though, and it is still weaker... but it might be a nasty surprise for something like Skarmory.

Mega Latios

130 Speed or Defense for free is nice.

Lucario

Jolt past 100 Speed, or patch one of your mediocre defenses. Speed is probably the more useful one 99% of the time.

Mesprit

... just use Azelf.

Mega Metagross

Its Special Attack is actually its lowest stat outside of HP. More likely is swapping Defense for Speed so you're outspeeding even more things.

Octillery

Well, I suppose it's possible that 105 Speed might be enough to make it relevant. 480 isn't that low of a BST.

Salamence

Walling sets love the free, modest boost to a defensive stat, and offensive sets appreciate rising above a base of 100 Speed.

Mega Sceptile

Bolstering a defensive stat might be nice?

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile (Attack/Defense swap): 317-380 (112.8 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... eeeh.

In practice I suspect it would rather swap its offensive stats so it can take advantage of its powerful Physical options more effectively. Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Drain Punch...

Mega Sharpedo

Why not patch a defensive stat for free using its Special Attack? Special Defense would be the bigger boost by 5 whole points, but...

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Sharpedo: 306-360 (108.8 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Sharpedo (Special Attack/Defense swap): 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

... Defense can prevent stuff like Conkeldurr from revenging you with priority.

Thundurus

Both Therian and Incarnate can either bolster a defensive stat for free or slightly improve their Speed tier. Bulk Up Incarnate sets get the bigger payoff for sacrificing Special Attack, of course, though I'm not convinced 125 will be a notable Speed tier.

Tornadus

Similar idea to Thundurus, except that Tornadus-Therian both actually runs mixed a lot of the time and Speed is already its highest stat. Still.

Volcanion

110 Speed for free? Yes, please! Patching its Special Defense might be nice instead for stallbreaker-oriented builds.

Zoroark

Hugely bolster a defensive stat, or sacrifice Attack to get some nicer Speed. Why not?


Let's look at (most of) the Pokemon that have one strong offensive stat and one strong defensive stat... walls can patch their weaker defensive stat, attackers can sacrifice bulk for Speed or the like.

Aggron

110/140 (Mega) Special Defense is much better for shrugging off Special hits. The mixed bulk makes Aggron overall more reliable, possibly enough to make Rest-based sets actually work -or at least let it successfully accept Wishes.

Avalugg

Been covered before, but by swapping its Attack with its Special Defense, it gets a walling statline better than Mew's. Still held back by its typing and all, but it might manage to become relevant as a Spinner with recovery. Maybe.

Carracosta

Nnnaaah. More likely is sacrificing Defense to jolt right up to 133 Speed. Run Sturdy, Shell Smash, murder things.

Chesnaught

88/122/107 defenses isn't bad. Still painfully weak to Flying... honestly, probably not worth doing. But something interesting to think about.

Donphan

90/120/120 defenses would be pretty cool. Still no recovery, and now you have no offensive presence. Might make more sense to get the Speed, instead, make it easier to get in one last Rapid Spin before death, that kind of thing.

Doublade

Patching its Special Defense up to 110, backed by Eviolite, gives it a fair amount of resistant to surprise Special attacks. You lose out on your offensive pressure, though.

Escavalier

Actually already has bulk. More likely you'll sacrifice bulk for Speed. 105 Speed might finally make it relevant outside of Trick Room.

Gigalith

If you're going to try to sacrifice Attack for Special Defense, you're actually probably better off with Eviolite Boldore. Worth noting is that Probopass and Carbink are the only other STAB users of Power Gem, and if they want a strong Power Gem, they have to sacrifice a defensive stat.

Golem

More likely to sacrifice Defense for Speed and murder things with its Weakness Policy set no longer over-reliant on Sucker Punch to sweep.

Hippowdon

108/118/112 bulk is pretty awesome. Losing offensive pressure from Earthquake is a bit of a pain, especially since you're basically Taunt bait if you run no attacking moves at all. Still, could be cool.

Huntail

Honestly, more likely you'll sacrifice one of your offensive stats for more Speed.

Or run Clamperl with one of its items. 85 base Attack/Special Attack with basically Huge Power and Shell Smash is pretty terrifying, or for an offense-breaking approach Clamperl can get its Speed up with its unused offensive stat so it can actually outspeed things after a Shell Smash.

Kingler

Special Sheer Force has already been covered, but an alternative is sacrificing Defense to get up to 115 Speed and run a Physical set. Main concern is that the meta is liable to be full of things that outspeed you anyway.

Leafeon

A Leaf Guard set could consider bolstering its Defense with its Attack, I guess? Or a Chlorophyll set might consider swapping Speed with Special Defense -you'll be lightning fast under the sun regardless, and some Special bulk might be the difference between being KOed and managing to push through one more foe.

Regigigas

This has been noted already, but Slow Start doesn't affect Special Attack. Nature Power gives it Tri Attack for STAB, Focus Blast covers everything except Ghosts... tack on Thunderbolt and, I dunno, Hidden Power Dark? And there you go, 160 Special Attack murdering things competently.

Rhyperior

130 Speed is no joke. Pretty fragile if you go for that, though.

Mega Steelix

You know what I'd consider? Dumping that Defense for Speed. 230 Speed is extremely difficult to beat, even in Nature Swap, and 125 Attack is enough to break down less bulky offensive teams. Then carry Taunt to push through a lot of stall teams regardless. Might be good?

(Mega) Tyranitar

Patching up its Speed is something to consider. Or you could run it as a straight Special attacker? Though, no Rock STAB outside of Hidden Power, and no boosting...

Flareon

Flareon might make a passable wall by swapping Attack into Defense.

... okay no, not really, not with some of the monster attackers running around. What might work for it is swapping its Special Defense for its Speed -suddenly you have a 110 Speed with 130 Attack backed by Guts. Might find a niche that way.

(Mega) Gallade

Regular Gallade might consider sacrificing its Special Defense for Speed (Gets it past 100), but Mega Gallade probably wants to stay the same, or run Special. Mega Gallade actually has the movepool to run Special quite competently, thanks to inheriting from Kirlia, and even gets STAB priority in the form of Vacuum Wave. Calm Mind isn't as fast of boosting as Swords Dance, but Psyshock lets you break non-mixed walls. Special Mega Gallade could be quite neat, especially since Talonflame is already banned.

Snorlax

Two particularly notable things Snorlax can do: sacrifice Special Defense for Speed and get a nice, but not impressive by Nature Swap standards, 110 Speed (It does get Belly Drum, keep in mind), or close off its weak Defense by sacrificing Attack. Resttalk Curselax sets might function as a win conditions that way?

Mega Ampharos

For non-Trick Room teams, Mega Ampharos probably most appreciates bolstering its Speed to 95, since all its Attack does is make it weak to Foul Play and Confusion.

Heatran

... well, its Attack is higher than its Speed. I'm... not actually sure Heatran gets much out of Nature Swap.

Mega Slowbro

More defensive sets might consider swapping Special Attack with Special Defense, make it even harder to kill. Might also work as a surprise cleaner by swapping Defense for Speed, though watch out for Sucker Punch. And Shadow Sneak.

Tangrowth

Either offensive stat can be used to patch its Special Defense with minimal loss. Nice.

Mega Venusaur

Well. 100 Speed, go?

Empoleon

Physical sets appreciate being able to convert that 111 Special Attack to Speed, definitely.

Florges

Pure walling sets can swap Special Attack for Defense. Swapping Defense for Special Defense combines well Calm Mind sets, alternatively. It could also be a pretty nasty glass cannon surprise -154 Speed is actually high, even by Nature Swap standards, and 112 Special Attack isn't nothing.

Goodra

Drop either offensive stat for Defense is nice. Small boost, but nice.
 
Dont know if anybody actually tried but u should give some credit to Defensive Kyurem-Black with 170 in spdef/def and 120 hp with a decent sptack could be a nice wall in this meta :]

110 speed/atk Marowak with bone club could be quite nice against slow teams ( stall )
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top