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Nerfmons - Submissions Phase #7
- Thread starter Whydon
- Start date
The goal of this Pet Mod is to buff NU and below Pokemon and nerf RU and above Pokemon. If it's BL level of broken, then I guess that's great. If you don't agree with it, just don't vote towards it during the voting phase.
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change:
New Stats: 70 / 90 / 95 / 50 / 95 / 100 (500)
New Ability: Overgrowth / Contrary (HA) [no change]
Added/Removed Moves: (none)
Justification: The new stat spread is meant to emphasize Serperior's overall versatility, while nerfing the one set that pushed it over the limit. 50 Special Attack, reduced Speed and already poor coverage ensure that Contrary Leaf Storm, while still viable, is much more manageable and won't be breaking through dedicated special walls even when fully set up. On the other hand, the increased Attack stat in combination with useful attacking options in Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Return, Aqua Tail and even Iron Tail makes a Coil set viable as well, even though it would still be outclassed by Lilligant in the role of a grass type set-up sweeper. Decent defenses with good Speed allow for a defensive set as well with options such as Glare, Leech Seed, Taunt and Synthesis. There are several Pokemon which outclass Serperior in each of these roles, but the flexibility and versatility the new spread provides should be reason enough for it to find use on certain teams.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change:
New Stats: 60 / 70 / 120 / 40 / 50 / 60 (400)
New Ability: Keen Eye /
Added/Removed Moves: -Stealth Rock
Justification: This is mostly a toned down version of Skarmory, so the new stat spread still caters to its main role as a physical wall with great typing and reliable recovery. I felt that the Special Defense needed to be lowered by a noticeable amount, since Skarmory was able to run specially defensive sets in OU and even Ubers with its mediocre 65/70 special bulk due to that amazing typing. A speed of 60 puts Skarmory just below Pelipper, a fellow physically defensive Defogger with reliable recovery, who would otherwise risk being overshadowed. Access to Spikes allows Skarmory to retain its niche from the higher tiers, while an additional hazard option in Stealth Rock was considered unnecessary and removed. There are already a couple of other NU Pokemon with access to Stealth Rock and hazard control, such as Prinplup, Sandslash, Kabutops etc., so there is no reason for Skarmory to take up that role in addition to all of its other benefits.
Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change:
New Stats: 55 / 110 / 60 / 35 / 110 / 85 (455)
New Ability: Swarm / Early Bird / Iron Fist (HA) [no change]
Added/Removed Moves: (none)
Justification: With these changes, Ledian can finally take advantage of its famous punching movepool and high special bulk. While its stats are still on the low side, it does have access to powerful STAB priority, STAB U-Turn, a boosting move in Sword Dance and reliable recovery in Roost, all of which make Scizor so successful in OU. As such, a Choice Band set would certainly be viable on Ledian, especially since strong Fighting Type priority is highly sought after in a tier where most set-up sweepers aim for a Flying Type resistance.
Ledian's best set, however, would be a wall breaking set consisting of Sword Dance and a wide variaty of Iron Fist boosted coverage moves, such as Drain Punch, the elemental punches and even Meteor Mash for Fairy types which resist its STABs and can hit for supereffective damage. Roost wouldn't even be necessary on this set due to Drain Punch's passive recovery. While all of this would make Ledian an effective offensive force especially against defensive teams, it is still hampered by its 4x Flying weakness, low defense stat and mediocre speed, meaning that it will have a hard time setting up in front of physical attackers, and can easily be revenge killed by faster Flying types.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change:
New Stats: 70 / 95 / 90 / 60 / 90 / 50 (455)
New Ability: Swarm / Insomnia / Poison Heal (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Knock Off,
Justification: As a counterpart to Ledian, Ariados retains the same base stat total. A Speed stat of 50 ensures that it will narrowly outrun fellow leads such as Crustle and Rhydon, which could previously OHKO it with Rock Blast before it could set up any hazards. A Dark typing gives Ariados much more utility with STAB Sucker Punch and the newly added Knock Off, meaning that Xatu won't be able to switch in easily, while bulkier hazard removers / grounded Poison types can be punished on the switch in, greatly reducing their survivability. It's typing and useable bulk, in combination with Poison Heal allows Ariados to set up multiple hazards over the course of the match if necessary, so it can fully utilize its access to both Sticky Web and Toxic spikes, something that sets it apart from other Sticky Web users such as Leavanny, who is faster and has greater offensive presence, and Kricketune, who has access to Taunt and Endeavor and is faster as well.
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Did I say NU? Welp, the point of my message is still correct :I
No, it is not, because we want to make things NU viable, and not good enough to be UU/BL or whatever. Mixed attackers are far more dangerous in NU than they are in other tiers because NU has no mixed walls except for the pink blobs, and even then those are weak to Fighting.
If anything, we should aim for A rank in NU.
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change:
New Stats: 70 / 95 / 95 / 45 / 105 / 90 (500)
New Ability: Shed Skin / No Guard / Contrary (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Power Whip, +Dragon Rush, +Draco Meteor, +Recover
Justification: It's may be a little strange, but it's about time for it to have the Dragon treatment. The new typing makes it have a 4x weakness to Ice, but also a neutrality to Fire and further resistances to Grass, Water, and Electric. Also, the 105 base Special Defense makes survive at least a non-STAB Ice Beam. It's spam-able Contrary Storm technique is still here, but with it's nerfed Special Attack, it can't hit as hard as before, but can still make at least a some damage when boosted, but it needs to look out for Regice. It also gains Draco Meteor for dual special STAB and No Guard. It helps it's 2 now moves, Power Whip and Dragon Rush, to become more spam-able, but also makes moves like Blizzard or Fire Blast hit all the time. The Attack stat has been buffed, so it can use Coil more effectually as well as Swords Dance. It's defensive nature can be witted with the help of Recover and Shed Skin which, when coupled with it's high defenses, can take hits better.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change:
New Stats: 50 / 90 / 100 / 75 / 80 / 85 (470)
New Ability: Unnerve / Light Metal / Weak Armor (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Heat Wave, +Hurricane, +Work Up, -Spikes, -Stealth Rocks, -Steel Wing
Justification: This nerf is simple to see. Nerfed defenses, no hazards, and the lost of Sturdy. It also gets Steel Wing gone because it felt useless. The offensive stats were buffed as well as gaining Heat Wave, Hurricane, and Work Up because most other Flying types get Heat Wave, Hurricane is just a better STAB than Air Slash, and Work Up is the only way to boost it's Attack and Special Attack at the same time. It still keeps it's typing because it's a good typing that can ward off most NU Pokemon. It gets also Unnerve and Light Metal so that it has a alright ability and a useless ability.
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Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change:
New Stats: 75 / 85 / 95 / 85 / 95 / 90 (525)
New Ability: Levitate / Technician / Iron Fist (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Bulk Up, +Megahorn, +Fire Punch, +Meteor Mash, +Shadow Punch, +Close Combat, +Quiver Dance, +Brave Bird
Justification: Since the mostly offensive nature of it's moveset, close appearance to a Kamen Rider, and the fact it is also has Iron Fist as a Hidden Ability makes it a worthy candidate for the Fighting type. It's stats get some change, with the Attack stats getting a good boost to become a bit of a mixed Attacker. It's defenses were also boosted. It gains Levitate due to being a ladybug that they fly and Technician because it felt better with it. It still keeps Iron Fist for maximum punching power. It gains Bulk Up to boost it's Attack and Defense, Megahorn for a good Physical Bug STAB, and Fire Punch, Meteor Mash, and Shadow Punch to complete the elemental punch trio and gain coverage. It also gains Close Combat, Quiver Dance, and Brave Bird because y'know.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change:
New Stats: 80 / 100 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 70 (500)
New Ability: Compound Eyes / Insomnia / Arena Trap (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Memento, +Gunk Shot, +Bug Buzz, +Psyshock, +Nasty Plot, +Swords Dance, +Knock Off
Justification: With a better stat spread, new abilities, and better moves means it will sure be a better one in NU. It now has Compound Eyes and Arena Trap, which makes it more usable. The stats are an improvement as well, gaining better offensively and defensively while still being a bit week. This is fixed by Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. It gains also Gunk Shot and Bug Buzz for that kind stuff. It also gains Psyshock for winning against Calm Mind users and Knock Off for Psychic coverage. Memento works well with Arena Trap and can drain the offensive work of powerful ones like Golurk and Regice.
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I apologize in advance if my points sound somewhat harsh, but I do feel like the proposed changes would make the Pokemon a bit too hard to handle in NU. I do like the idea behind them, but they might just be a tad too much for the metagame. :/
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change:/
New Stats: 70 / 95 / 75 / 65 / 105 / 110 (520)
New Ability: Overgrow / No Guard / Contrary (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Power Whip, +Dragon Rush
Justification: It's may be a little strange, but it's about time for it to have the Dragon treatment. The new typing makes it have a 4x weakness to Ice, but the 105 base Special Defense makes survive at least a non-STAB Ice Beam. It's spam-able Contrary Storm technique is still here, but with a bit of a nerf it it's Special Attack, it can't hit as hard as before, but can still make a dent in a portion of the NU tier, but it needs to look out for Regice. it it's It also gets No Guard. It helps it's 2 now moves, Power Whip and Dragon Rush, to become more spam-able, but also makes moves like Blizzard or Fire Blast hit all the time. The Attack stat has been buffed, so it can use Coil more effectually as well as Swords Dance.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change:/[No change]
New Stats: 50 / 90 / 100 / 65 / 80 / 90 (465)
New Ability: Keen Eye / Light Metal / Weak Armor (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Heat Wave, +Hurricane, -Spikes, -Stealth Rocks, -Steel Wing
Justification: This nerf is simple to see. Nerfed defenses, no hazards, and the lost of Sturdy. It also gets Steel Wing gone because it felt useless. The offensive stats were buffed as well as gaining Heat Wave and Hurricane because most other Flying types get Heat Wave and Hurricane is just a better STAB than Air Slash. It still keeps it's typing because it's a good typing that can ward off most NU Pokemon.
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Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change:/
New Stats: 75 / 110 / 90 / 20 / 120 / 95 (500)
New Ability: Levitate / Compound Eyes / Iron Fist (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Bulk Up, +Megahorn, +Fire Punch, +Close Combat
Justification: Since the mostly offensive nature of it's moveset, close appearance to a Kamen Rider, and the fact it is also has Iron Fist as a Hidden Ability makes it a worthy candidate for the Fighting type. It's stats get from either major to minor. The biggest change is it's Attack from a useless 35 to a powerful 110. It's defenses were also boosted. It's Special Attack has been nerfed, though It gains Levitate due to being a ladybug and Compound Eyes because it has, well, compound eyes. It still keeps Iron Fist. It gains Bulk Up to boost it's Attack and Defense, Megahorn for a good Physical Bug STAB, and Fire Punch to complete the elemental punch trio. It also gains Close Combat because y'know.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change:/[No change]
New Stats: 80 / 100 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 70 (500)
New Ability: Compound Eyes / Insomnia / Arena Trap (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Memento, +Gunk Shot, +Bug Buzz, +Psyshock, +Nasty Plot, +Swords Dance, +Knock Off
Justification: With a better stat spread, new abilities, and better moves means it will sure be a better one in NU. It now has Compound Eyes and Arena Trap, which makes it more usable. The stats are an improvement as well, gaining better offensively and defensively while still being a bit week. This is fixed by Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. It gains also Gunk Shot and Bug Buzz for that kind stuff. It also gains Psyshock for winning against Calm Mind users and Knock Off for Psychic coverage. Memento works well with Arena Trap and can drain the offensive work of powerful ones like Golurk and Regice.
As I see it, reducing Serperior's Special Attack by 10 points might not actually hinder the Contrary Leaf Storm set as much as expected, since it now has a reliable Dragon STAB with great neutral coverage to abuse, not to mention the defensive benefits the typing brings with it. Even though the Dragon typing is presented as a defensive nerf, the newly found neutrality to fire type attacks along with the raised Special defense might do it more good than harm, especially when potential Ice coverage won't even be able to OHKO it as you mentioned. This makes me believe that the Contrary set alone would be too much of a wallbreaker for NU to handle, and that's not even considering the other sets made possible by the spread (No Guard Coil/Sword Dance with high powered STABs; supporting sets with high bulk and speed) which would make it an incredibly versatile and threatening Pokemon to face for all kind of teams.
Skarmory on the other hand did receive a significant reduction in physical bulk, along with loosing it's access to hazard, meaning it won't be able to fulfill the same niche it previously did. Instead however, it still has really good mixed bulk to go with its amazing typing, and a respectable offensive presence with newly found 90/80/90 stats, coupled with high powered STAB attacks. This actually puts it on par with Pokemon such as Swanna, Articuno and Chatot in terms of special attacking prowess, except that it has a much better defensive typing and can choose to go physical as well with it's access to Sword Dance. This new Skarmory would come with incredible offensive and defensive benefits for any kind of teams and very few actual drawbacks.
EDIT: Yeah, I did get the stats mixed up. >.< 65 SpA means a specially offensive set won't actually be viable.
However, Ledian might actually end up being the most powerful out of these four. Looking at typing and movepool, it seems to be a slightly weaker but noticeably faster and bulkier Heracross, with additional access to powerful priority in STAB Iron Fist Mach Punch and STAB U-Turn, not to mention a wide range of coverage options including the Iron Fist boosted elemental punches. Another Pokemon it could be compared to would be Gallade, which is infamous for its threatening Sword Dance set in NU. Ledian could actually run a similar set with higher speed, higher bulk on both sides, a much more threatening priority move (Base 72 after STAB and ability effect), and a more powerful Drain Punch as well. Alternatively, it can choose to run STAB Close Combat and STAB Compound Eyes Megahorn for maximum power, since 95 Speed is actually really good for a wall breaker. Of course it can be revenge killed by Gale Wings Acrobatics, but that is a really minimal drawback compared to all the benefits mentioned previously.
Lastly, Ariados actually seems to be the most manageable out of these, even though access to Arena Trap in combination with decent bulk, respectable offenses and a great support movepool really push the limit. It is practically ensured to set up Sticky Webs and Toxic Spikes if it manages to trap a defensive Pokemon, and can gather huge amounts of momentum with Memento once its job is done. It's quite a scary thought to be left crippled with lowered offenses and Sticky Webs on the field, while the opponent gets a free switch to the set-up sweeper of his choice. I see the offensive potential mostly as a secondary threat, but it is still there with strong STABs on both sides of the spectrum, and the many free turns Arena Trap can buy to set up a Sword Dance/Nasty Plot.
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You should notice that the Skarmory has 65 Special Attack, not 80. Also, I sorta agree with your opinions, my nerfs/buffs are a bit too powerful. I will tone them down soon.
EDIT: Toned them down a bit and increased Skar's Special Attack to 75 as well as adding Work Up.
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And time to ask this question once more:
In other words; anything planned, because at this pace we're only finished by the time it is 2025.
Haha, I've been quite busy lately this week (partly the reason AbNormal is on a hiatus) but from next week I'm sure we'll go from Submissions on Saturday onwards and Voting on Wednesday onwards (That's the plan, for sure). I'll consult runbabyrun about the six mons thing. :]
It's alright, I'll do it today if I have the time (I actually started the voting phase post yesterday but drafts don't save for me, for some reason :[ ) or tomorrow if not.
Sorry for any inconvenience...
Nerf:
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change:
/
New Stats: 113 / 95 / 75 / 55 / 95 / 55
New Ability: Same old Contrary
Added/Removed Moves: N/A
Justification:
Switching around Serperior's stats a bit. 113 HP and a Dragon typing makes it a decent user of Coil, but its primary usage as a Contrary special attacker is nerfed, due to low speed, and the fact that it can be revenge killed by Ice Shard. However, it does get access to Outrage, and offensively it's a great typing, so there.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change:
/
New Stats: The same old, 80 / 40 / 140 / 65 / 50 / 70 (445)
New Ability: Levitate (replaces Sturdy)
Added/Removed Moves: N/A
Justification:
Always thought that Skarmory looked a bit prehistoric. Hence the rock typing. Levitate to compensate (even though it sounds weird), but what once checked fighting types no longer can. Dual resistances to Flying and Normal is pretty good though.
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Buffs:
Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change:
/
[No change]
New Stats: 55 / 95 / 80 / 55 / 110 / 95 (500)
New Ability: Swarm / Prankster / Iron Fist (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Tail Glow +U turn
Justification:
The purpose Illumise and Volbeat were originally meant to fulfill. However, although Ledian has 100 more BST than them, it doesn't gain Thunder Wave, and still has a weak SpA stat. 95 speed is OK'ish for its typing, and 95 attack should give it just about enough to be "buffed" while not actually making it powerful. It does have Swords Dance + Acrobatics, though, so I suppose that's useful.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change:
/
New Stats: 80 / 80 / 80 / 80 / 80 / 100 (500)
New Ability: Technician / Compoundeyes / Sticky Hold
Added/Removed Moves: +Superpower, +Low Sweep, + Circle Throw
Justification:
Seems kind of strong and not acceptable, likely, but this is just me having fun with Ariados and pretending its Spider-Man. As such, I gave it balanced stats but relatively high speed, because spiders should be fast. I would've given it 80 across the board though, but I recalled someone in this thread mentioning that the average NU mon has 500 BST, so I fit both of these two into that mold. Still, shouldn't be too different right? In keeping with the theme, I gave it Technician, althoug it doesn't get too much to abuse it with, Compoundeyes because its eyes look identical to Galvantula's, and to keep with the theme. Gooey is just for the lols, although by gaining Hammer Arm (a move that lowers your speed), Low Sweep (a move that lowers the opponent's speed), it does fit in with that too.
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change:
New Stats: 113 / 95 / 75 / 55 / 95 / 55
New Ability: Same old Contrary
Added/Removed Moves: N/A
Justification:
Switching around Serperior's stats a bit. 113 HP and a Dragon typing makes it a decent user of Coil, but its primary usage as a Contrary special attacker is nerfed, due to low speed, and the fact that it can be revenge killed by Ice Shard. However, it does get access to Outrage, and offensively it's a great typing, so there.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change:
New Stats: The same old, 80 / 40 / 140 / 65 / 50 / 70 (445)
New Ability: Levitate (replaces Sturdy)
Added/Removed Moves: N/A
Justification:
Always thought that Skarmory looked a bit prehistoric. Hence the rock typing. Levitate to compensate (even though it sounds weird), but what once checked fighting types no longer can. Dual resistances to Flying and Normal is pretty good though.
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Buffs:
Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change:
New Stats: 55 / 95 / 80 / 55 / 110 / 95 (500)
New Ability: Swarm / Prankster / Iron Fist (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Tail Glow +U turn
Justification:
The purpose Illumise and Volbeat were originally meant to fulfill. However, although Ledian has 100 more BST than them, it doesn't gain Thunder Wave, and still has a weak SpA stat. 95 speed is OK'ish for its typing, and 95 attack should give it just about enough to be "buffed" while not actually making it powerful. It does have Swords Dance + Acrobatics, though, so I suppose that's useful.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change:
New Stats: 80 / 80 / 80 / 80 / 80 / 100 (500)
New Ability: Technician / Compoundeyes / Sticky Hold
Added/Removed Moves: +Superpower, +Low Sweep, + Circle Throw
Justification:
Seems kind of strong and not acceptable, likely, but this is just me having fun with Ariados and pretending its Spider-Man. As such, I gave it balanced stats but relatively high speed, because spiders should be fast. I would've given it 80 across the board though, but I recalled someone in this thread mentioning that the average NU mon has 500 BST, so I fit both of these two into that mold. Still, shouldn't be too different right? In keeping with the theme, I gave it Technician, althoug it doesn't get too much to abuse it with, Compoundeyes because its eyes look identical to Galvantula's, and to keep with the theme. Gooey is just for the lols, although by gaining Hammer Arm (a move that lowers your speed), Low Sweep (a move that lowers the opponent's speed), it does fit in with that too.
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The 4 don't make sense at a whole lot and the nerfed ones still are very powerful. Sure, you may have fun thinking it's Spider-Man with the typing, but the abilities and moves don't make sense. The first 2 abilities are fine, but why Gooey? Hammer Arm dosen't work with it because it dosen't have arms. Superpower makes better sense with it. Low Sweep can stay but add Circle Throw to it. It can create a niche for Technician Circle Throw.
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change:/
New Stats: 113 / 95 / 75 / 75 / 95 / 75 (Same 528 BST)
New Ability: Same old Contrary
Added/Removed Moves: N/A
Justification:
Switching around Serperior's stats a bit. 113 HP and a Dragon typing makes it a decent user of Coil, but its primary usage as a Contrary special attacker is nerfed, due to low speed, and the fact that it can be revenge killed by Ice Shard. However, it does get access to Outrage, and offensive it's a great typing, so there.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change:/
New Stats: The same old, 65 / 80 / 140 / 40 / 70 / 70 (465)
New Ability: Levitate
Added/Removed Moves: N/A
Justification:
Always thought that Skarmory looked a bit prehistoric. Hence the rock typing. Levitate to compensate (even though it sounds weird), but what once checked fighting types no longer can. Dual resistances to Flying and Normal is pretty good though.
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Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change:/[No change]
New Stats: 55 / 95 / 80 / 55 / 110 / 95 (500)
New Ability: Swarm / Prankster / Iron Fist (HA)
Added/Removed Moves: +Tail Glow
Justification:
The purpose Illumise and Volbeat were originally meant to fulfill. However, although Ledian has 100 more BST than them, it doesn't gain Thunder Wave, and still has a weak SpA stat. 95 speed is OK'ish for its typing, and 95 attack should give it just about enough to be "buffed" while not actually making it powerful. It does have Swords Dance + Acrobatics, though, so I suppose that's useful.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change:/
New Stats: 80 / 80 / 80 / 80 / 80 / 100 (500)
New Ability: Technician / Compoundeyes / Gooey
Added/Removed Moves: +Hammer Arm, +Low Sweep
Justification:
Seems kind of strong and not acceptable, likely, but this is just me having fun with Ariados and pretending its Spider-Man. As such, I gave it balanced stats but relatively high speed, because spiders should be fast. I would've given it 80 across the board though, but I recalled someone in this thread mentioning that the average NU mon has 500 BST, so I fit both of these two into that mold. Still, shouldn't be too different right? In keeping with the theme, I gave it Technician, althoug it doesn't get too much to abuse it with, Compoundeyes because its eyes look identical to Galvantula's, and to keep with the theme. Gooey is just for the lols, although by gaining Hammer Arm (a move that lowers your speed), Low Sweep (a move that lowers the opponent's speed), it does fit in with that too.
The Ledian is fine, but get something like X-Scissor in there. As for the nerfs, you sorta forgot the term "nerf" here. Skarmory may have a Rock typing, but it has Levitate to negate the 4x Ground weakness. Also, it still has the same stats as before, maybe still has Sturdy, and still has it's hazards. Serperior still has a decent special attack to sweep through teams, and with added STAB on Dragon Pulse, it can be seen as a terrifying Pokemon in the NU tier.
Final opinion: Just find that you should make them more acceptable.
Edit: Thank you for the changes, but Ledian already has U-Turn. Also update the descriptions to the updates
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I thought the purpose was to make them usable in an NU level, not to make them terrible. And Serperior's main niche was its high speed to Compensate for middling SpA. So I figured giving it that and a typing that adds a 4x weakness would make it easier to handle. Eh, I lowered some of its stats anyway. It's <500 now.
As for Skarmory, while Levitate takes care of the ground weakness, it's still 4x weak to fighting, which is infact even more common in NU than ground. As for hazards, I just didn't want it to be pretty much a carbon copy of everyone else's submissions by removing them as well. But fine, I lowered its stats a bit.
As for Skarmory, while Levitate takes care of the ground weakness, it's still 4x weak to fighting, which is infact even more common in NU than ground. As for hazards, I just didn't want it to be pretty much a carbon copy of everyone else's submissions by removing them as well. But fine, I lowered its stats a bit.
Pokemon: Serperior
Typing Change: Grass/Normal
New Stats: 83/85/95/60/110/95 (528)
New Ability: Overgrow/Contrary
Added/Removed Moves: None
Justification: Tried to keep its BST the same, so I merely cut back the SpA and Speed and buffed its bulk and Atk. The added Normal typing doesn't do anything for its special sets, as it doesn't get Hyper Voice, but it now gets STAB Return to use on its Coil set. Defensively, the immunity to Ghost isn't really worth the weakness to Fighting-type moves. It's slower too; 95 Speed is good, but not ridiculous.
Pokemon: Skarmory
Typing Change: Rock/Flying
New Stats: 65/80/125/50/60/60 (440)
New Ability: Keen Eye/Iron Barbs/Weak Armor
Added/Removed Moves: None
Justification: Losing the Steel typing means it's now worse as a physical wall and Defogger, being weak to Stealth Rock and Rock-type moves, as well as the myriad of resistances that Steel-type provides. While it keeps its hazards, the lack of Sturdy means it's possible for it to be unable to lay down even one layer of hazard before fainting, especially with its now lower Speed.
Pokemon: Ledian
Typing Change: Bug/Fighting
New Stats: 55/65/60/100/110/90 (480)
New Ability: Swarm/Magic Fist (Punching moves now uses the user's SpA in calculating damage, and does no make contact.)/Quick Feet
Added/Removed Moves: +Bullet Punch, +Nasty Plot, +Psychic, +Sky Uppercut
Justification: The new ability allows Ledian to use its collection of punching moves while staying a specially oriented mon, and the Fighting type not only improves its defensive aspects, but also giving it STAB on Mach Punch, Drain Punch and Sky Uppercut, all of which are punching moves. Quick Feet, on the other hand, lets Ledian sweep more easily if it's inflicted with burn or other statuses, though Ledian minds burn the least.
Pokemon: Ariados
Typing Change: Bug/Poison
New Stats: 100/95/90/45/105/55 (480)
New Ability: Swarm/Mold Breaker/Regenerator
Added/Removed Moves: +Horn Leech, +Slack Off, +Bulk Up, +Gunk Shot
Justification: Ariados is now much more bulky, able to tank some SE hits with full HP investment, and hit back. Against weaker attacks, it can set up Bulk Ups and recover the damage with Slack Off. Mold Breaker allows it to set up Toxic Spikes and Sticky Webs without fearing Xatu, while Regenerator gives it semi-reliable recovery.
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NU is home to some stupidly powerful Fighting-types, like Sawk, Gurdurr and Gallade, and if not there's something like Zangoose's Close Combat or Raichu's Brick Break/Focus Blast. We are also getting a ton of Fighting-types we currently don't have like Mienshao and Machamp... I'm not overly worried. :P
Just pointing this two things out, gallade will probably at least get suspected/banned, and raichu running brick brick break, what?
Yeah that's why I thought it was weird. Fighting types are everywhere in NU. And no matter what way you put it, immunity to ground or not, Steel/Flying is a far, far superior type over Steel/Rock. Both types have 4x resists. Steel/Flying has Bug and Grass and Steel/Rock has Flying & Normal, and while Steel/Rock still resists Bug 2x it's neutral to Grass, while Steel/Rock gains an Ice resist instead. The only three Ice types I ever see in NU are Sneasel, Cryogonal and Jynx, two of whom have Focus Blast. Not to mention, a 4x weakness to fighting + a water weakness is not better off than 2x weaknesses to Fire and Electric (commonly special moves even in NU, and neither can really take any special move tbh).
To wit:
50/100 Steel/Flying Skarmory:
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 202-238 (69.1 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
80/140 Steel/Rock Skarmory:
252+ Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 472-564 (129.6 - 154.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 180-214 (61.8 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In fact with the new nerf of 40 attack that I gave it...
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 108-128 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Congrats Skarmory is officially shittier offensively than Bastiodon, it just has Roost and hazards, which I don't have to remove, as it seperates itself from Bastio who is overall bulkier on both sides.
I simply don't believe that my Skarmory is any more powerful than his tbh, and I'm gonna leave the stats as they are rn. IMO the goal should be to make upper tier mons at least B rank, not D.
To wit:
50/100 Steel/Flying Skarmory:
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sawk: 202-238 (69.1 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
80/140 Steel/Rock Skarmory:
252+ Atk Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 472-564 (129.6 - 154.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 180-214 (61.8 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In fact with the new nerf of 40 attack that I gave it...
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 108-128 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Congrats Skarmory is officially shittier offensively than Bastiodon, it just has Roost and hazards, which I don't have to remove, as it seperates itself from Bastio who is overall bulkier on both sides.
I simply don't believe that my Skarmory is any more powerful than his tbh, and I'm gonna leave the stats as they are rn. IMO the goal should be to make upper tier mons at least B rank, not D.
Welp, here it is! After a whole lot of submissions, The Voting Phase has begun!
If you are unsure on how to vote, please consult the OP.
Note: Submissions that did not fulfill requirements to standard have been removed, and due to circumstances I'm sorry I wasn't able to point them out before and let them be fixed. Some submissions may be re-added after proper consultation. If your submission isn't here it's either because I have forgotten about it or that it was removed because of the stated reasons. If you want to ask why, just tag me in a post and I will reply as soon as I can. Any new changes made by these people will be re-added into the voting options. Sorry for any inconvenience.
78 / 80 / 95 / 60 / 105 / 110 (528) [No Ability Change] -Dragon Pulse, +Power Whip (The Reptile)
Justification: "Serperior is weird, because outside of Contrary sets it kinda does need a buff. It's Special Attack and coverage are both gimped hard, while Coil sets get a powerful STAB and more bulk to work with. Pretty simple in terms of nerfs honestly. Its speed also got nerfed a bit. Leaf Storm spam is probably still viable but extremely gimped."
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70 / 110 / 75 / 75 / 120 / 68 (518) [No Ability Change] +Power Whip (Aasiger)
Justification: "Serperior depends on Contrary Leaf Storm to be threatening as it is, so gimping it appeared to be the way to go. IT also has various sets otherwise which are MUCH worse. Now, it has a highly buffed Coil set and a Dual Screen set which stil works, albeit differently since it sacrificed speed for much more bulk. The speed also allows the Contrary set to be revenged much easier, now the revenge-killers are no longer restricted to Swellow and Scarfers. Unless it carries a Choice Scarf itself, but that has its own host of issues, most notably that things like Flareon and other bulky Fire- and/or Flying types would come in and blast it if it uses Leaf Storm, and its coverage is piss weak anyway (and Dragon Pulse, while it has a ton of neutral coverage, hits little for SE too, and it is fairly weak... it hits only barely harder than a NVE Leaf Storm, even)."
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80 / 65 / 87 / 60 / 97 / 139 (528) [No Ability Change] -Dragon Pulse, -Outrage, -Dragon Tail (MegaGallade)
Justification: "I made sure I kept the BST the same since all Unova Fully-Evolved Starters have a BST of 528, interestingly. I also made sure that I had no stats that were lower than the previous evolution. It has the awkward speed stat of 139 so Electrode can outspeed it reguarly. I also removed all moves (I know of) that it gets apon evolution from Servine. In many ways, I believe it is outclassed by Meganium grass-tank-wise, Malamar is better contrary-wise while Arbok may be better coil-wise. Guess that's the point of a nerf."
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70 / 90 / 95 / 50 / 95 / 100 (500) [No Ability Change] No moveset changes. (Cretacerus)
Justification: "The new stat spread is meant to emphasize Serperior's overall versatility, while nerfing the one set that pushed it over the limit. 50 Special Attack, reduced Speed and already poor coverage ensure that Contrary Leaf Storm, while still viable, is much more manageable and won't be breaking through dedicated special walls even when fully set up. On the other hand, the increased Attack stat in combination with useful attacking options in Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Return, Aqua Tail and even Iron Tail makes a Coil set viable as well, even though it would still be outclassed by Lilligant in the role of a grass type set-up sweeper. Decent defenses with good Speed allow for a defensive set as well with options such as Glare, Leech Seed, Taunt and Synthesis. There are several Pokemon which outclass Serperior in each of these roles, but the flexibility and versatility the new spread provides should be reason enough for it to find use on certain teams."
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70 / 95 / 95 / 45 / 105 / 90 (500) [+Shed Skin, +No Guard, -Overgrow] +Power Whip, +Dragon Rush, +Draco Meteor, +Recover (Ticktock)
Justification: "It's may be a little strange, but it's about time for it to have the Dragon treatment. The new typing makes it have a 4x weakness to Ice, but also a neutrality to Fire and further resistances to Grass, Water, and Electric. Also, the 105 base Special Defense makes survive at least a non-STAB Ice Beam. It's spam-able Contrary Storm technique is still here, but with it's nerfed Special Attack, it can't hit as hard as before, but can still make at least a some damage when boosted, but it needs to look out for Regice. It also gains Draco Meteor for dual special STAB and No Guard. It helps it's 2 now moves, Power Whip and Dragon Rush, to become more spam-able, but also makes moves like Blizzard or Fire Blast hit all the time. The Attack stat has been buffed, so it can use Coil more effectually as well as Swords Dance. It's defensive nature can be witted with the help of Recover and Shed Skin which, when coupled with it's high defenses, can take hits better."
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113 / 95 / 75 / 55 / 95 / 55 (488) [No Ability Change] No moveset change (SpartanMalice)
Justification: "Switching around Serperior's stats a bit. 113 HP and a Dragon typing makes it a decent user of Coil, but its primary usage as a Contrary special attacker is nerfed, due to low speed, and the fact that it can be revenge killed by Ice Shard. However, it does get access to Outrage, and offensively it's a great typing, so there."
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83 / 85 / 95 / 60 / 110 / 95 (528) [No Ability Change] No moveset change (zerobreaker000)
Justification: "Tried to keep its BST the same, so I merely cut back the SpA and Speed and buffed its bulk and Atk. The added Normal typing doesn't do anything for its special sets, as it doesn't get Hyper Voice, but it now gets STAB Return to use on its Coil set. Defensively, the immunity to Ghost isn't really worth the weakness to Fighting-type moves. It's slower too; 95 Speed is good, but not ridiculous."
60 / 80 / 120 / 55 / 70 / 90 (465) [+Light Metal, -Sturdy] -Spikes, -Stealth Rock (The Reptile)
Justification: "This nerf is simple to see. It's physical bulk is still respectable, although nerfed, while its attack power and spdef remains mostly the same. It's a bit faster now, but it loses out on Sturdy (a decent ability) and Spikes, so Spike Stack isn't possible with Skarm. Hell, you don't even get Rocks. This is my way to compensate for keeping Roost on it - removing most of its utility, which is in hazards."
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45 / 50 / 140 / 65 / 70 / 70 (440) [+Big Pecks, -Sturdy] -Stealth Rock, -Brave Bird, -Taunt (Aasiger)
Justification: "Skarmory, an amazing physical wall and it remains like that. NU isn't short of powerful wallbreakers, and with Brave Bird gone even Flying-weak things like Gurdurr set up all over it, even moreso now it lacks Taunt to stop it. On the physical side, you need SE coverage to bring it down with a 2HKO but it is not impossible. On the special side, it is fairly frail and it lacks Sturdy, so mixed attackers are even more dangerous to it. In short, it remained a solid physical wall and Spike setter, but it gained also a fair number of flaws that prohibit its use."
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55 / 80 / 110 / 40 / 70 / 65 (420) [+Battle Armor (HA), -Weak Armor (HA)] -Brave Bird (MegaGallade)
Justification: "Skarmory has defensive stats easily outclassed by Pokemon like Torkoal and Magcargo in NU and below, and is I guess it as equal odds with Ferroseed in different ways. 65 Speed is an interesting speed tier, with many Pokemon that can check Skarmory near or above it, with many Fire types in NU and below too. I removed Brave Bird due to how too good a STAB it was, and replaced Weak Armor (which doesn't suit Skarmory at all, since all its dex entries state how strong its armor is) with Battle Armor due to the reasons I just specified, and also for less hax."
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55 / 80 / 100 / 40 / 50 / 75 (400) [+Battle Armor (HA), -Weak Armor (HA)] -Brave Bird, -Stealth Rock (Mr155551)
Justification: "By removing rocks and bb and the new base 100 defenses means that skarm is much easier to check now keep note that he can still take hits really well while true he can go for drill peck now it's not the worst but defiently not the best."
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50 / 90 / 100 / 75 / 80 / 85 (470) [+Unnerve, +Light Metal, -Keen Eye, -Sturdy] +Heat Wave, +Hurricane, +Work Up, -Spikes, -Stealth Rock, -Steel Wing (Ticktock)
Justification: "This nerf is simple to see. Nerfed defenses, no hazards, and the lost of Sturdy. It also gets Steel Wing gone because it felt useless. The offensive stats were buffed as well as gaining Heat Wave, Hurricane, and Work Up because most other Flying types get Heat Wave, Hurricane is just a better STAB than Air Slash, and Work Up is the only way to boost it's Attack and Special Attack at the same time. It still keeps it's typing because it's a good typing that can ward off most NU Pokemon. It gets also Unnerve and Light Metal so that it has a alright ability and a useless ability."
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80 / 40 / 140 / 65 / 50 / 70 (445) [+Levitate, -Sturdy] No moveset change
Justification: "Always thought that Skarmory looked a bit prehistoric. Hence the rock typing. Levitate to compensate (even though it sounds weird), but what once checked fighting types no longer can. Dual resistances to Flying and Normal is pretty good though."
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65 / 80 / 125 / 50 / 60 / 60 (440) [+Iron Barbs, -Sturdy] No moveset change
Justification: "Losing the Steel typing means it's now worse as a physical wall and Defogger, being weak to Stealth Rock and Rock-type moves, as well as the myriad of resistances that Steel-type provides. While it keeps its hazards, the lack of Sturdy means it's possible for it to be unable to lay down even one layer of hazard before fainting, especially with its now lower Speed."
75 / 30 / 70 / 50 / 110 / 85 (420) [+Pure Power (HA), -Iron Fists (HA)] +Bulk Up (The Reptile)
Justification: "I know Pure Power is kind of a cop-out, but I wanted Ledian to keep its low BST but also make it viable. 30 w/Pure Power isn't that overwhelmingly strong, and the main stat boost it got was in bulk. It's new typing is also great, as it now has a good offensive typing to attack with. Plus its fitting, as (at least to me), Ledian looks like a Kamen Raider. Not much else to say, I dont think its broken."
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90 / 90 / 80 / 55 / 160 / 85 (560) [+Technician, -Swarm] +Bulk Up, +Attack Order, +Fire Punch (Aasiger)
Justification: "I decided to give Ledian mostly more bulk. While it has the stats, it still doesn't have the typing, not too dissimilar from Articuno, who has 600 BST and still resides in PU because of crap typing. Ledian isn't overly different now, having a far more desirable BST, and a crap typing. Its typing isn't really unique, being of the common Bug/Flying type, but it is the only physical attacker with said typing.
Its STAB moves currently suck, but Attack Order is the only one that remotely fits if it comes to a powerful STAB move, though I guess Technician Aerial Ace also counts... Technician Mach Punch also hits harder than Iron Fist Mach Punch, but its Elemental Punches are weaker with Technician. A choice that is up to you."
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55 / 110 / 75 / 50 / 95 / 100 (485) [+Compound Eyes, -Swarm] +Dynamic Punch, +Tail Glow, +Aura Sphere, +Focus Blast (MegaGallade)
Justification: "I gave Ledian Compound Eyes because... well... it has very bug-like eyes. It was either that or Tinted Lens, but it couldn't be too broken. Dynamic Punch and Focus Blast are better with Compound Eyes as well as being great STAB. Aura Sphere are also good STABs. Tail Glow's Japanese name is 'Firefly Light', and many of Ledian's dex entries state how it glows at night. Also greatly improves the less-than-average sp.attack stat. Oh, and Fighting type because it punches things."
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75 / 85 / 95 / 85 / 95 / 90 (525) [+Levitate, +Technician, -Swarm, -Early Bird] +Bulk Up, +Megahorn, +Fire Punch, +Meteor Mash, +Shadow Punch, +Close Combat, +Quiver Dance, +Brave Bird (Ticktock)
Justification: "Since the mostly offensive nature of it's moveset, close appearance to a Kamen Rider, and the fact it is also has Iron Fist as a Hidden Ability makes it a worthy candidate for the Fighting type. It's stats get some change, with the Attack stats getting a good boost to become a bit of a mixed Attacker. It's defenses were also boosted. It gains Levitate due to being a ladybug that they fly and Technician because it felt better with it. It still keeps Iron Fist for maximum punching power. It gains Bulk Up to boost it's Attack and Defense, Megahorn for a good Physical Bug STAB, and Fire Punch, Meteor Mash, and Shadow Punch to complete the elemental punch trio and gain coverage. It also gains Close Combat, Quiver Dance, and Brave Bird because y'know."
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55 / 95 / 80 / 55 / 110 / 95 (500) [+Prankster, -Early Bird] +Tail Glow +U turn (SpartanMalice)
Justification: "The purpose Illumise and Volbeat were originally meant to fulfill. However, although Ledian has 100 more BST than them, it doesn't gain Thunder Wave, and still has a weak SpA stat. 95 speed is OK'ish for its typing, and 95 attack should give it just about enough to be "buffed" while not actually making it powerful. It does have Swords Dance + Acrobatics, though, so I suppose that's useful."
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55 / 65 / 60 / 100 / 110 / 90 (480) [+Magic Fist ('Punching'-moves are treated as non-contact special attacks), +Quick Feet, -Early Bird, -Iron Fist] +Bullet Punch, +Nasty Plot, +Psychic, +Sky Uppercut (zerobreaker000)
Justification: "The new ability allows Ledian to use its collection of punching moves while staying a specially oriented mon, and the Fighting type not only improves its defensive aspects, but also giving it STAB on Mach Punch, Drain Punch and Sky Uppercut, all of which are punching moves. Quick Feet, on the other hand, lets Ledian sweep more easily if it's inflicted with burn or other statuses, though Ledian minds burn the least."
80 / 90 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 80 (500) [+Adaptability (HA), -Sniper (HA)] +U-Turn, +Bug Buzz, +Sludge Wave, +Gunk Shot, +Nasty Plot (Ronald Reagan Debates)
Justification: "I'm Going to a mixed with this Bug, I feel like 80 speed is good enough To Be Threatning but not over powered, With NU right now this thing would be really easy to revenge kill, I added some bulk so you could use this for more of a stally mon if you wanted to use it, But i really think this thing should be mixed or special, so i gaved it nasty plot to sub for this and i gave it bug buzz and sludge wave, I think with its limitted coverage it'd fit like a glove in NU, Not to broken but not to bad either"
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80 / 100 / 70 / 60 / 70 / 40 (420) [+Arena Trap (HA), -Sniper (HA)] +Memento (The Reptile)
Justification: "Now it has a cool ability. Arena Trap makes sense flavor-wise due to it being a spider (its kind of like it has the other mon trapped in a sticky web or something of the sorts). It's still pitifully slow, and not that bulky, so Arena Trap isn't broken on it imho. It also lacks a strong, reliable Dark STAB, although it does have STAB Sucker Punch. 100 base attack is an upgrade but it isn't really that hard hitting either."
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70 / 110 / 100 / 70 / 70 / 50 (470) [+Oblivious (HA), -Sniper (HA)] No moveset change. (Aasiger)
Justification: "Another massive stat buff, mostly on the offensive department. Megahorn makes sure it can hit pretty hard, its Taunt immunity makes it can almost ensure Sticky Web getting up if it carries a Sash... get your Defogger ready!
Outside of that, it didn't really change too much. Ariados has everything it needs but lacks the stats to pull them off.
To be honest, I'm not that creative with Ariados."
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100 / 105 / 85 / 45 / 75 / 75 (485) [+Compound Eyes, +Arena Trap (HA), -Swarm, -Sniper (HA)] +Gunk Shot, +U-Turn, +Knock Off (MegaGallade)
Justification: "As well as having very bug-like eyes like Ledian (also note another Spider Pokemon gets that same ability), I gave Ariados Arena Trap since it is a Spider, and they trap things. Gunk Shot + Megahorn + Compound Eyes = Great. U-Turn for momentum and Knock Off for a tanky move."
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80 / 100 / 80 / 90 / 80 / 70 (500) [+Compound Eyes, +Arena Trap (HA), -Swarm, -Sniper (HA)] +Memento, +Gunk Shot, +Bug Buzz, +Psyshock, +Nasty Plot, +Swords Dance, +Knock Off (Ticktock)
Justification: "With a better stat spread, new abilities, and better moves means it will sure be a better one in NU. It now has Compound Eyes and Arena Trap, which makes it more usable. The stats are an improvement as well, gaining better offensively and defensively while still being a bit week. This is fixed by Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. It gains also Gunk Shot and Bug Buzz for that kind stuff. It also gains Psyshock for winning against Calm Mind users and Knock Off for Psychic coverage. Memento works well with Arena Trap and can drain the offensive work of powerful ones like Golurk and Regice."
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100 / 95 / 90 / 45 / 105 / 55 (480) [+Mold Breaker, +Regenerator (HA), -Insomnia, -Sniper (HA)] +Horn Leech, +Slack Off, +Bulk Up, +Gunk Shot (zerobreaker000)
Justification: "Ariados is now much more bulky, able to tank some SE hits with full HP investment, and hit back. Against weaker attacks, it can set up Bulk Ups and recover the damage with Slack Off. Mold Breaker allows it to set up Toxic Spikes and Sticky Webs without fearing Xatu, while Regenerator gives it semi-reliable recovery."
Please PM me (not runbabyrun) with your votes and the voting phase will end by Saturday this week (hopefully)!
Note: I changed the format slightly so it's easier to see the submissions.
Some points that could be discussed:
Thanks for reading!
If you are unsure on how to vote, please consult the OP.
Note: Submissions that did not fulfill requirements to standard have been removed, and due to circumstances I'm sorry I wasn't able to point them out before and let them be fixed. Some submissions may be re-added after proper consultation. If your submission isn't here it's either because I have forgotten about it or that it was removed because of the stated reasons. If you want to ask why, just tag me in a post and I will reply as soon as I can. Any new changes made by these people will be re-added into the voting options. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Justification: "Serperior is weird, because outside of Contrary sets it kinda does need a buff. It's Special Attack and coverage are both gimped hard, while Coil sets get a powerful STAB and more bulk to work with. Pretty simple in terms of nerfs honestly. Its speed also got nerfed a bit. Leaf Storm spam is probably still viable but extremely gimped."
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Justification: "Serperior depends on Contrary Leaf Storm to be threatening as it is, so gimping it appeared to be the way to go. IT also has various sets otherwise which are MUCH worse. Now, it has a highly buffed Coil set and a Dual Screen set which stil works, albeit differently since it sacrificed speed for much more bulk. The speed also allows the Contrary set to be revenged much easier, now the revenge-killers are no longer restricted to Swellow and Scarfers. Unless it carries a Choice Scarf itself, but that has its own host of issues, most notably that things like Flareon and other bulky Fire- and/or Flying types would come in and blast it if it uses Leaf Storm, and its coverage is piss weak anyway (and Dragon Pulse, while it has a ton of neutral coverage, hits little for SE too, and it is fairly weak... it hits only barely harder than a NVE Leaf Storm, even)."
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Justification: "I made sure I kept the BST the same since all Unova Fully-Evolved Starters have a BST of 528, interestingly. I also made sure that I had no stats that were lower than the previous evolution. It has the awkward speed stat of 139 so Electrode can outspeed it reguarly. I also removed all moves (I know of) that it gets apon evolution from Servine. In many ways, I believe it is outclassed by Meganium grass-tank-wise, Malamar is better contrary-wise while Arbok may be better coil-wise. Guess that's the point of a nerf."
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Justification: "The new stat spread is meant to emphasize Serperior's overall versatility, while nerfing the one set that pushed it over the limit. 50 Special Attack, reduced Speed and already poor coverage ensure that Contrary Leaf Storm, while still viable, is much more manageable and won't be breaking through dedicated special walls even when fully set up. On the other hand, the increased Attack stat in combination with useful attacking options in Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Return, Aqua Tail and even Iron Tail makes a Coil set viable as well, even though it would still be outclassed by Lilligant in the role of a grass type set-up sweeper. Decent defenses with good Speed allow for a defensive set as well with options such as Glare, Leech Seed, Taunt and Synthesis. There are several Pokemon which outclass Serperior in each of these roles, but the flexibility and versatility the new spread provides should be reason enough for it to find use on certain teams."
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Justification: "It's may be a little strange, but it's about time for it to have the Dragon treatment. The new typing makes it have a 4x weakness to Ice, but also a neutrality to Fire and further resistances to Grass, Water, and Electric. Also, the 105 base Special Defense makes survive at least a non-STAB Ice Beam. It's spam-able Contrary Storm technique is still here, but with it's nerfed Special Attack, it can't hit as hard as before, but can still make at least a some damage when boosted, but it needs to look out for Regice. It also gains Draco Meteor for dual special STAB and No Guard. It helps it's 2 now moves, Power Whip and Dragon Rush, to become more spam-able, but also makes moves like Blizzard or Fire Blast hit all the time. The Attack stat has been buffed, so it can use Coil more effectually as well as Swords Dance. It's defensive nature can be witted with the help of Recover and Shed Skin which, when coupled with it's high defenses, can take hits better."
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Justification: "Switching around Serperior's stats a bit. 113 HP and a Dragon typing makes it a decent user of Coil, but its primary usage as a Contrary special attacker is nerfed, due to low speed, and the fact that it can be revenge killed by Ice Shard. However, it does get access to Outrage, and offensively it's a great typing, so there."
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Justification: "Tried to keep its BST the same, so I merely cut back the SpA and Speed and buffed its bulk and Atk. The added Normal typing doesn't do anything for its special sets, as it doesn't get Hyper Voice, but it now gets STAB Return to use on its Coil set. Defensively, the immunity to Ghost isn't really worth the weakness to Fighting-type moves. It's slower too; 95 Speed is good, but not ridiculous."
Justification: "This nerf is simple to see. It's physical bulk is still respectable, although nerfed, while its attack power and spdef remains mostly the same. It's a bit faster now, but it loses out on Sturdy (a decent ability) and Spikes, so Spike Stack isn't possible with Skarm. Hell, you don't even get Rocks. This is my way to compensate for keeping Roost on it - removing most of its utility, which is in hazards."
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Justification: "Skarmory, an amazing physical wall and it remains like that. NU isn't short of powerful wallbreakers, and with Brave Bird gone even Flying-weak things like Gurdurr set up all over it, even moreso now it lacks Taunt to stop it. On the physical side, you need SE coverage to bring it down with a 2HKO but it is not impossible. On the special side, it is fairly frail and it lacks Sturdy, so mixed attackers are even more dangerous to it. In short, it remained a solid physical wall and Spike setter, but it gained also a fair number of flaws that prohibit its use."
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Justification: "Skarmory has defensive stats easily outclassed by Pokemon like Torkoal and Magcargo in NU and below, and is I guess it as equal odds with Ferroseed in different ways. 65 Speed is an interesting speed tier, with many Pokemon that can check Skarmory near or above it, with many Fire types in NU and below too. I removed Brave Bird due to how too good a STAB it was, and replaced Weak Armor (which doesn't suit Skarmory at all, since all its dex entries state how strong its armor is) with Battle Armor due to the reasons I just specified, and also for less hax."
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Justification: "By removing rocks and bb and the new base 100 defenses means that skarm is much easier to check now keep note that he can still take hits really well while true he can go for drill peck now it's not the worst but defiently not the best."
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Justification: "This nerf is simple to see. Nerfed defenses, no hazards, and the lost of Sturdy. It also gets Steel Wing gone because it felt useless. The offensive stats were buffed as well as gaining Heat Wave, Hurricane, and Work Up because most other Flying types get Heat Wave, Hurricane is just a better STAB than Air Slash, and Work Up is the only way to boost it's Attack and Special Attack at the same time. It still keeps it's typing because it's a good typing that can ward off most NU Pokemon. It gets also Unnerve and Light Metal so that it has a alright ability and a useless ability."
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Justification: "Always thought that Skarmory looked a bit prehistoric. Hence the rock typing. Levitate to compensate (even though it sounds weird), but what once checked fighting types no longer can. Dual resistances to Flying and Normal is pretty good though."
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Justification: "Losing the Steel typing means it's now worse as a physical wall and Defogger, being weak to Stealth Rock and Rock-type moves, as well as the myriad of resistances that Steel-type provides. While it keeps its hazards, the lack of Sturdy means it's possible for it to be unable to lay down even one layer of hazard before fainting, especially with its now lower Speed."
Justification: "I know Pure Power is kind of a cop-out, but I wanted Ledian to keep its low BST but also make it viable. 30 w/Pure Power isn't that overwhelmingly strong, and the main stat boost it got was in bulk. It's new typing is also great, as it now has a good offensive typing to attack with. Plus its fitting, as (at least to me), Ledian looks like a Kamen Raider. Not much else to say, I dont think its broken."
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Justification: "I decided to give Ledian mostly more bulk. While it has the stats, it still doesn't have the typing, not too dissimilar from Articuno, who has 600 BST and still resides in PU because of crap typing. Ledian isn't overly different now, having a far more desirable BST, and a crap typing. Its typing isn't really unique, being of the common Bug/Flying type, but it is the only physical attacker with said typing.
Its STAB moves currently suck, but Attack Order is the only one that remotely fits if it comes to a powerful STAB move, though I guess Technician Aerial Ace also counts... Technician Mach Punch also hits harder than Iron Fist Mach Punch, but its Elemental Punches are weaker with Technician. A choice that is up to you."
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Justification: "I gave Ledian Compound Eyes because... well... it has very bug-like eyes. It was either that or Tinted Lens, but it couldn't be too broken. Dynamic Punch and Focus Blast are better with Compound Eyes as well as being great STAB. Aura Sphere are also good STABs. Tail Glow's Japanese name is 'Firefly Light', and many of Ledian's dex entries state how it glows at night. Also greatly improves the less-than-average sp.attack stat. Oh, and Fighting type because it punches things."
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Justification: "Since the mostly offensive nature of it's moveset, close appearance to a Kamen Rider, and the fact it is also has Iron Fist as a Hidden Ability makes it a worthy candidate for the Fighting type. It's stats get some change, with the Attack stats getting a good boost to become a bit of a mixed Attacker. It's defenses were also boosted. It gains Levitate due to being a ladybug that they fly and Technician because it felt better with it. It still keeps Iron Fist for maximum punching power. It gains Bulk Up to boost it's Attack and Defense, Megahorn for a good Physical Bug STAB, and Fire Punch, Meteor Mash, and Shadow Punch to complete the elemental punch trio and gain coverage. It also gains Close Combat, Quiver Dance, and Brave Bird because y'know."
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Justification: "The purpose Illumise and Volbeat were originally meant to fulfill. However, although Ledian has 100 more BST than them, it doesn't gain Thunder Wave, and still has a weak SpA stat. 95 speed is OK'ish for its typing, and 95 attack should give it just about enough to be "buffed" while not actually making it powerful. It does have Swords Dance + Acrobatics, though, so I suppose that's useful."
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Justification: "The new ability allows Ledian to use its collection of punching moves while staying a specially oriented mon, and the Fighting type not only improves its defensive aspects, but also giving it STAB on Mach Punch, Drain Punch and Sky Uppercut, all of which are punching moves. Quick Feet, on the other hand, lets Ledian sweep more easily if it's inflicted with burn or other statuses, though Ledian minds burn the least."
Justification: "I'm Going to a mixed with this Bug, I feel like 80 speed is good enough To Be Threatning but not over powered, With NU right now this thing would be really easy to revenge kill, I added some bulk so you could use this for more of a stally mon if you wanted to use it, But i really think this thing should be mixed or special, so i gaved it nasty plot to sub for this and i gave it bug buzz and sludge wave, I think with its limitted coverage it'd fit like a glove in NU, Not to broken but not to bad either"
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Justification: "Now it has a cool ability. Arena Trap makes sense flavor-wise due to it being a spider (its kind of like it has the other mon trapped in a sticky web or something of the sorts). It's still pitifully slow, and not that bulky, so Arena Trap isn't broken on it imho. It also lacks a strong, reliable Dark STAB, although it does have STAB Sucker Punch. 100 base attack is an upgrade but it isn't really that hard hitting either."
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Justification: "Another massive stat buff, mostly on the offensive department. Megahorn makes sure it can hit pretty hard, its Taunt immunity makes it can almost ensure Sticky Web getting up if it carries a Sash... get your Defogger ready!
Outside of that, it didn't really change too much. Ariados has everything it needs but lacks the stats to pull them off.
To be honest, I'm not that creative with Ariados."
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Justification: "As well as having very bug-like eyes like Ledian (also note another Spider Pokemon gets that same ability), I gave Ariados Arena Trap since it is a Spider, and they trap things. Gunk Shot + Megahorn + Compound Eyes = Great. U-Turn for momentum and Knock Off for a tanky move."
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Justification: "With a better stat spread, new abilities, and better moves means it will sure be a better one in NU. It now has Compound Eyes and Arena Trap, which makes it more usable. The stats are an improvement as well, gaining better offensively and defensively while still being a bit week. This is fixed by Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. It gains also Gunk Shot and Bug Buzz for that kind stuff. It also gains Psyshock for winning against Calm Mind users and Knock Off for Psychic coverage. Memento works well with Arena Trap and can drain the offensive work of powerful ones like Golurk and Regice."
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Justification: "Ariados is now much more bulky, able to tank some SE hits with full HP investment, and hit back. Against weaker attacks, it can set up Bulk Ups and recover the damage with Slack Off. Mold Breaker allows it to set up Toxic Spikes and Sticky Webs without fearing Xatu, while Regenerator gives it semi-reliable recovery."
Note: I changed the format slightly so it's easier to see the submissions.
Some points that could be discussed:
- Which submissions do you disagree with and why? [Remember: Be to the point and decisive: No hate]
- What Pokemon do you want to nerf / buff soon and why? (Preferably PU / BL4 and OU please :] )
- What sets could be made from last week's nerfs and buffs?
Thanks for reading!
About the suggestions, I'm positively surprised by Serperior and Skarmory.
Ledian, not so much, Bug/Fighting being suggested a bit too often for my liking (and way too obvious). We could also have it Flying/Fighting instead of Bug, but oddly enough no one suggested that, even if it is a very obvious Bug (and things like Beedrill don't have the Flying-type either).
Hm, for next Nerfs....
I'll suggest Gardevoir, Charizard, Sceptile, Lucario...
Bunch of mons with Megas, who are probably surprisingly balanced in NU even without changes. Sceptile and Charizard (non-Mega's) have proven not to be, Gardevoir looks to be somewhat balanced actually (but I did not play in Golden Age so idk) but Lucario is a monstrous threat because his ability to go mixed... yet in the end is weaker than Pikachu (though he has a better typing, greater bulk and better movepool, making him impossible to switch into, but he might be the only one of those that needs serious changes).
For buffs...
I suggest Gigalith.
Gigalith is a Pure-Rock type, but he is outclassed by anything and everything in the roles he attempts to fulfill, which is kinda sad.
Ledian, not so much, Bug/Fighting being suggested a bit too often for my liking (and way too obvious). We could also have it Flying/Fighting instead of Bug, but oddly enough no one suggested that, even if it is a very obvious Bug (and things like Beedrill don't have the Flying-type either).
Hm, for next Nerfs....
I'll suggest Gardevoir, Charizard, Sceptile, Lucario...
Bunch of mons with Megas, who are probably surprisingly balanced in NU even without changes. Sceptile and Charizard (non-Mega's) have proven not to be, Gardevoir looks to be somewhat balanced actually (but I did not play in Golden Age so idk) but Lucario is a monstrous threat because his ability to go mixed... yet in the end is weaker than Pikachu (though he has a better typing, greater bulk and better movepool, making him impossible to switch into, but he might be the only one of those that needs serious changes).
For buffs...
I suggest Gigalith.
Gigalith is a Pure-Rock type, but he is outclassed by anything and everything in the roles he attempts to fulfill, which is kinda sad.
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Nominating a few mons for nerf/buff:
Now, I'm not sure if we have to specify one mon or 2, so here goes. First off is Kyurem-Black, simply to invoke the challenge of transitioning that into NU levels. We've seen Slaking, Kyu-B is more or less Slaking done right. It's a predictable rock in the OU environment, but a very strong rock. How are you gonna nerf it now? As a challenge, prevent them from using Slow Start or Truant, that would seem like a cop out. (plenty of 600 BST legendaries reside in the lower tiers, it could go there... especially with its typing).
The other mon I wanna see nerfed is Mega Manectric. Manectric is tricky. I really like the original variant, but mega manectric is just plain annoying to deal with (In OU, I use thundurus over a scarf, as he fulfills two rules, as offensive support, and as my pseudo Scarf due to T-wave. Guess who craps all over that idea).
Two mons I'd like to see boosted: Luxray and Seaking. Luxray has always been a cool mon to me design wise, it deserves better. Seaking? I mean I'm not a huge fan but... had to pick something from PU. Besides, it could be more fitting of its name...
I would make some sets but I'd just seen this week's slate to be honest, I have no idea about last week's, and I'm really tired rn, so I'm gonna have to leave that one.
Cheers!
Edit: Ticktock I think you were supposed to PM your votes rather than post them.
Now, I'm not sure if we have to specify one mon or 2, so here goes. First off is Kyurem-Black, simply to invoke the challenge of transitioning that into NU levels. We've seen Slaking, Kyu-B is more or less Slaking done right. It's a predictable rock in the OU environment, but a very strong rock. How are you gonna nerf it now? As a challenge, prevent them from using Slow Start or Truant, that would seem like a cop out. (plenty of 600 BST legendaries reside in the lower tiers, it could go there... especially with its typing).
The other mon I wanna see nerfed is Mega Manectric. Manectric is tricky. I really like the original variant, but mega manectric is just plain annoying to deal with (In OU, I use thundurus over a scarf, as he fulfills two rules, as offensive support, and as my pseudo Scarf due to T-wave. Guess who craps all over that idea).
Two mons I'd like to see boosted: Luxray and Seaking. Luxray has always been a cool mon to me design wise, it deserves better. Seaking? I mean I'm not a huge fan but... had to pick something from PU. Besides, it could be more fitting of its name...
I would make some sets but I'd just seen this week's slate to be honest, I have no idea about last week's, and I'm really tired rn, so I'm gonna have to leave that one.
Cheers!
Edit: Ticktock I think you were supposed to PM your votes rather than post them.
Hmm, I'm actually quite surprised my submissions didn't make the slate, considering I was very conservative with the changes in order to make sure the Pokemon stayed balanced. Would certainly be interested in what prevented them from being considered.
As for nominations, here's some of the Pokemon I think could be fun to remake for NU:
Boosts: Bastiodon, Corsola, Tropius
Nerfs: Nidoqueen, Crobat
As for nominations, here's some of the Pokemon I think could be fun to remake for NU:
Boosts: Bastiodon, Corsola, Tropius
Nerfs: Nidoqueen, Crobat