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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3
- Thread starter Tangerine
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Ah, yeah. Don't know where my brain went. :P
Yeah, I got that. I was just trying to point out that as far as Skarmory goes, there would be no difference between using HP Elec and Surf. Surf is your first choice in almost every situation.
How is Vaporeon relatively non-threatening? >.>' Well, ok it can't do much to you in one turn (except wish), but it's like the bane of offensive teams . . .
In any case, even standard Relaxed Swamp can 2hko skarmory with Hydro Pump . . .
In any case, even standard Relaxed Swamp can 2hko skarmory with Hydro Pump . . .
Nah, Skarm does switch into Swampert quite often, mainly because Surf fails to 2hko without significant investment in SpA, so Skarmory can set up spikes and roost at its pleasure. And Skarmory usually has more speed, so a 2hko is not going to happen anyway.
Swampert should certainly consider around 80-96 Spd EVs so that it can outpace most Skarmory and kill it with Surf, so HP Electric won't be as necessary.
Swampert should certainly consider around 80-96 Spd EVs so that it can outpace most Skarmory and kill it with Surf, so HP Electric won't be as necessary.
Lvl 1 Snorunt @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs and Natures don't matter
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
This is the best Lvl 1 user of Endeavor.
Firstly Snorunt is one of the 2 Pokemon (the other being Magic Guard Clefable) that resists Weather Effects such as Hail and Sandstorm.
Also he has Ice Shard, which is not resisted by anything except Shedinja (which resists Endeavor so he doesn't count), and OHKO after 1 Endeavor.
Lastly he can also use Stealth Rock to support and Protect to scout Fakeout or other moves and also to stall.
This Swinub works best in a Hail team because he has Snow Cloak which increases his Evasion by 20% allowing him to stay in longer if he's lucky. Also after 1 successful Endeavor, the other Pokemon is sure to die if he isn't an Ice type due to damage from hail. Otherwise, you would use Ice Shard.
Swinub also works on Trick Room teams where he can abuse his 5 SPEED and also on Sandstorm teams except more things resists Sandstorm and he doesn't get the bonus effect of Snow Cloak.
Abomasnow @ Choice Specs
Snow Warning
Rash
EV's: 98 HP / 252 SpAtk / 160 Spd
Protect
Grass Knot / Solarbeam
Blizzard / Ice Beam / Water Pulse
Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / Energy Ball
This is pretty much a Special Attack set. Abomasnow doesn't have too much of a defense, so Protect is thrown in there as a last resort. The Speed EV's are there so that he can get a good attack in when he needs to.
As far as Focus Blast, Energy Ball, and Shadow Ball goes, since they're all designed to lower the defender's Special Defense at least a stage on hit, mind you not every time, it would help to include at least one of those in there so your attacks can hit big with Ice Beam or Grass Knot.
The other attacks are designed to at least hit big when they need to. So adding Choice Specs to the Set allows for all your attacks to hit bigger. The entire set can take out most OU Pokemon if you set it up right, except for some like Metagross and Gyarados, so be careful around those guys.
You're supposed to use your set before posting it, right? Have fun switching attacks with choice specs on.
I'm suprised no-one has tried this yet, it forms an excellent lead, one of the few things that it outclasses Spiritomb at.
Lead Sableye
Jolly @ Focus Sash
252Atk/252Spe/6Def
Fake Out
Thief
Seismic Toss
Night Shade
Jolly @ Focus Sash
252Atk/252Spe/6Def
Fake Out
Thief
Seismic Toss
Night Shade
Pretty simple once set up, and can ruin many other Leads. Fake Out Gives some instant damage, and being a ghost type means that other Fake Out Leads fail, and take a hit as they U-Turn unsucessfully. After an attack, (As even with the speed EV's, Sableye is very slow) use Thief, as Sableyes sash will more often or not break. Then, switch until a later date, or attack (This is where the speed EV's come in, as at worst its a speed tie with the ever popular Scarflosion Leads once Scarf is stolen) This set is for UU only, with the number of auto weather users nullifying the sash, yet not breaking it.
^You have obviously never tried that set..
If you have a Focus Sash, it doesn't "break". You don't lose the item. Theif would only be good if you had no item. And besides...a lead that takes at least 3 turns to KO something, cant set up SR and can't do anything to prevent someone else from setting up is not very powerful or useful.
Ok, so you used Fake Out on my Smeargle...now I get SR up and 2 layers of Spikes while you do a crappy amount of damage to me each turn. Oh no you Fake Outted my Nidoqueen, now I get SR up and 2 layers of TSpikes anyways as you struggle to 4HKO me...Very productive!
I don't see how that Sableye beats ANYTHING, let alone "ruin many other leads".
If you have a Focus Sash, it doesn't "break". You don't lose the item. Theif would only be good if you had no item. And besides...a lead that takes at least 3 turns to KO something, cant set up SR and can't do anything to prevent someone else from setting up is not very powerful or useful.
Ok, so you used Fake Out on my Smeargle...now I get SR up and 2 layers of Spikes while you do a crappy amount of damage to me each turn. Oh no you Fake Outted my Nidoqueen, now I get SR up and 2 layers of TSpikes anyways as you struggle to 4HKO me...Very productive!
I don't see how that Sableye beats ANYTHING, let alone "ruin many other leads".
It's referring to Shoddy, IIRC. On Shoddy, you lose your Focus Sash once it gets used, which means Unburden procs on Drifblim and you gain the ability to use Thief.
That said, it *is* a very bad set, and I believe the person posting it has basically never tested it. I agree that it doesn't actually damage any leads effectively, and I don't think I would *ever* use it.
That said, it *is* a very bad set, and I believe the person posting it has basically never tested it. I agree that it doesn't actually damage any leads effectively, and I don't think I would *ever* use it.
1st of all, I have tested and used the set for a while, and it has proven its worth time and again.
The most common Lead I have faced is Scarflosion, and the set not only prevents a sweep, but severely damages the said typhlosion, which is more than easily revenged.
Smeargle is 4HKO'ed, as is Nidoqueen. Support lead Nidoqueen may set up spikes, but chances are it's going to attack a Pokemon it should KO. Also, Thief would then steal the Item of the Nidoqueen, making it a smaller asset to the team. If the enemy sets up spikes, you use Rapid Spin
Every Lead functions better with an Item, and Sableye steals items perfectly. It's Stats aren't good, but this leads many to attack it, breaking the sash and allowing it to hinder the enemy team. Weather inducing leads aren't going to set up there Weather when they can the next turn, having just "KO'ed" a lead. And when this happens, the Weather Rock which the lead was more likely than not holding is stolen, hindering the Weather team with 3 less turns of weather.
Lastly, Sableye can act as a Safe Switch in for many, as it has done its job.
The most common Lead I have faced is Scarflosion, and the set not only prevents a sweep, but severely damages the said typhlosion, which is more than easily revenged.
Smeargle is 4HKO'ed, as is Nidoqueen. Support lead Nidoqueen may set up spikes, but chances are it's going to attack a Pokemon it should KO. Also, Thief would then steal the Item of the Nidoqueen, making it a smaller asset to the team. If the enemy sets up spikes, you use Rapid Spin
Every Lead functions better with an Item, and Sableye steals items perfectly. It's Stats aren't good, but this leads many to attack it, breaking the sash and allowing it to hinder the enemy team. Weather inducing leads aren't going to set up there Weather when they can the next turn, having just "KO'ed" a lead. And when this happens, the Weather Rock which the lead was more likely than not holding is stolen, hindering the Weather team with 3 less turns of weather.
Lastly, Sableye can act as a Safe Switch in for many, as it has done its job.
Since when have you seen any scarf typhlosion leads? I know that I haven't in any of my battles, or any of the battles that I've watched. Sure Sableye can block rapid spinners since it is a ghost, but so can other ghost types. The downside to the set that has already been brought up is that other leads can set up with ease as you put out pathetic damage numbers against them. Sure Sableye does have thief but if it can't get rid of your own hold item then that makes it practically useless. So the final verdict on the Sableye set is it won't do much as a lead, not being able to set up anything, KO, or mess up the opponent's strategy by stealing the leads' or any other pokemon on the opponent's team for that matter. You'd have better results by using a different lead, something other than that set. Final words to not say that Sableye is a "useless" pokemon but, as one great poster once said each pokemon has its own little "niche" in the metagame, and sableyes' is not to act as a lead.
MixZelf
Moveset Name: MixZelf
Move 1: Zen Headbutt
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Drain Punch/HP Fighting
Move 4: Thunderbolt/Ice Punch/Explosion
Item: Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Natures: Naive/Hasty
EVs: 0 HP/176 Atk/0 Def/112 SpA/0 SpD/220 Spe
Hi, this is a set that I have been using, and I have found it a great wallbreaker, as the set implies this uses Special and Physical Attacks to threaten some of Azelf's main counters, and ending the game as an effective mixed sweeper. Zen Headbutt is yout main STAB attack and hits common Special Walls expecting Psychic like Blissey and Tentacruel. Flamethrower is for hitting most Steel Types bar Heatran trying to resist your main STAB attack. I know Drain Punch is a wierd move to use, but you can hit Tyranitar for much more damage if using Drain Punch over HP Fighting, with Drain Punch being an OHKO almost every time assuming Life Orb, also Drain Punch steals some Hit Points from Blissey. Thunderbolt can be used against Gyrados which I found the biggest counter to this set, Ice Punch is for Salamence, and Flygon, and Explosion can be used as a last ditch move to remove that pesky Hippodown, and Snorlax which threaten your team, and which you may find hard to remove. The speed is enough to outspeed all positive base 110's, and since your Physical moves will do slightly less damage I put more EV's in Atk.
Here are some Damage Calcs with Life Orb:
Drain Punch from 176 Atk Azelf vs 4 HP/0 Def Tyranitar:
Damage: 269-348
Damage: 86.55% - 101.75%
As you can see an almost OHKO every time assuming Stealth Rock is in play
HP Fighting from 112 SpA Azelf vs 4 HP/0 Def Tyranitar:
Damage: 239-282
Damage: 69.88% - 82.46%
Dissapointing as it is never an OHKO with Stealth Rock in play
I am not sure if this set was mentioned before, I didn't see it in this thread or on this site, excuse my mistakes, I am only in 9th grade after all, thanks for reading hope this set is acceptble.
Moveset Name: MixZelf
Move 1: Zen Headbutt
Move 2: Flamethrower
Move 3: Drain Punch/HP Fighting
Move 4: Thunderbolt/Ice Punch/Explosion
Item: Life Orb/Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Natures: Naive/Hasty
EVs: 0 HP/176 Atk/0 Def/112 SpA/0 SpD/220 Spe
Hi, this is a set that I have been using, and I have found it a great wallbreaker, as the set implies this uses Special and Physical Attacks to threaten some of Azelf's main counters, and ending the game as an effective mixed sweeper. Zen Headbutt is yout main STAB attack and hits common Special Walls expecting Psychic like Blissey and Tentacruel. Flamethrower is for hitting most Steel Types bar Heatran trying to resist your main STAB attack. I know Drain Punch is a wierd move to use, but you can hit Tyranitar for much more damage if using Drain Punch over HP Fighting, with Drain Punch being an OHKO almost every time assuming Life Orb, also Drain Punch steals some Hit Points from Blissey. Thunderbolt can be used against Gyrados which I found the biggest counter to this set, Ice Punch is for Salamence, and Flygon, and Explosion can be used as a last ditch move to remove that pesky Hippodown, and Snorlax which threaten your team, and which you may find hard to remove. The speed is enough to outspeed all positive base 110's, and since your Physical moves will do slightly less damage I put more EV's in Atk.
Here are some Damage Calcs with Life Orb:
Drain Punch from 176 Atk Azelf vs 4 HP/0 Def Tyranitar:
Damage: 269-348
Damage: 86.55% - 101.75%
As you can see an almost OHKO every time assuming Stealth Rock is in play
HP Fighting from 112 SpA Azelf vs 4 HP/0 Def Tyranitar:
Damage: 239-282
Damage: 69.88% - 82.46%
Dissapointing as it is never an OHKO with Stealth Rock in play
I am not sure if this set was mentioned before, I didn't see it in this thread or on this site, excuse my mistakes, I am only in 9th grade after all, thanks for reading hope this set is acceptble.
I don't really see the need for a separate mixed Azelf set; the Nasty Plot sweeper already wrecks most teams because most Azelf are still suicide leads despite the prevelence of Occa Berry Metagross. IMO you can run Hidden Power Fighting for Tyranitar and Explosion for Blissey (or whatever else -- Explosion is one of the most broken moves in the game so why not abuse it to hell) to open up for a Choice Specs Jolteon, Life Orb Gengar, etc. sweep.
I do like the idea of Drain Punch for TTar (although you'd probably want to calc for 80 HP EVs as that's the standard for the CBer), but really Azelf shouldn't go physical or even mixed beyond Explosion.
Azelf is psychic and it's stuck with psychic for STAB, which is unfortunate. In terms of base power, its special movepool > its physical movepool. U-Turn and Explosion are still useable, neither really warrant much investment.
Also, in terms of both physical and mixed attackers, Azelf is generally outclassed in OU by Mence, Infernape, etc.
Azelf is psychic and it's stuck with psychic for STAB, which is unfortunate. In terms of base power, its special movepool > its physical movepool. U-Turn and Explosion are still useable, neither really warrant much investment.
Also, in terms of both physical and mixed attackers, Azelf is generally outclassed in OU by Mence, Infernape, etc.
Not really a different moveset but why is it that dusknoir is meant to be a physical tank? Its IV's are identical for both sp.d. and def. I can see using him as a spec. wall goin calm + 252 sp.d./252 hp. I think it's a surprise factor cause most ppl try to hit him thru the special side. Something like:
Dusknoir @ leftovers
Calm 252 hp/252 spD/4 atk
- Ice punch/Thunder punch
- Thunder punch/Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep talk
Seems similar to Regice (not really a boltbeam combo but gets the same good coverage) except not SR weak and still gets the fighting inmunity plus the explosion inmunity that usually special attackers have to kill Blissey, Snorlax, Vaporeon, etc.
Against common special sweepers, EQ takes care of Heatran, magnezone, jolteon and Infernape (who can't break this wall because of immunity to close combat), T-punch deals with normal LO spinner starmie who won't be doing as much dmg.
Dusknoir @ leftovers
Calm 252 hp/252 spD/4 atk
- Ice punch/Thunder punch
- Thunder punch/Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep talk
Seems similar to Regice (not really a boltbeam combo but gets the same good coverage) except not SR weak and still gets the fighting inmunity plus the explosion inmunity that usually special attackers have to kill Blissey, Snorlax, Vaporeon, etc.
Against common special sweepers, EQ takes care of Heatran, magnezone, jolteon and Infernape (who can't break this wall because of immunity to close combat), T-punch deals with normal LO spinner starmie who won't be doing as much dmg.
Ok, so most leads in ubers that i have faced, are either anti-lead groudon, or scarf darkrai. So i made this set on these terms, and it has worked wonders for me, however the last 2 moves are ones i want help on.
Moveset Name: Anti-Lead Darkrai
Move 1: Taunt / Dark Void
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Dark Pulse
Move 4: Nasty Plot / Focus Blast
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Bad Dreams
Natures: Modest / Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
A very nice lead, sub screws over scarfrai, and groudon using twave, then taunt on the next turn. I dont think timid is necessary as he isnt trying to outspeed much, and behind a sub he doesnt need to. Modest allows Darkrai to deal 254-299 damage to standard 252 HP / 12 SpD giratina, giving a decent chance to 2HKO (remember leftovers). I really like this set, although evs could be worked around to be more defensive.
Moveset Name: Anti-Lead Darkrai
Move 1: Taunt / Dark Void
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Dark Pulse
Move 4: Nasty Plot / Focus Blast
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Bad Dreams
Natures: Modest / Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
A very nice lead, sub screws over scarfrai, and groudon using twave, then taunt on the next turn. I dont think timid is necessary as he isnt trying to outspeed much, and behind a sub he doesnt need to. Modest allows Darkrai to deal 254-299 damage to standard 252 HP / 12 SpD giratina, giving a decent chance to 2HKO (remember leftovers). I really like this set, although evs could be worked around to be more defensive.
My rest talk arcanine idea (inspired by the Killers' song 'Neon Tiger)
Moveset Name: Neon Tiger
Move 1:Rest
Move 2:Sleep Talk
Move 3:Flamethrower
Move 4:Crunch
Ability:Intimidate
Item:Leftovers
Nature:Naive
EVs:216 Spe/188 HP/108 Def
in a nutshell, he counters Scizor and Lucario pretty well, due to his typing and intimidate.
Speed to outrun Max Jolly Lucario
HP is a Lefties number
The rest in def.
btw i am planning to use him in a team with a spinner so SR is not an issue.
Calcs:
Scizor:
-1 LO Superpower=36.14%-42.66% never a 2HKO
-1 LO STAB X-Scissor=20.38%-23.91% not even 4HKO
-1 LO STAB Technician Bullet Punch=13.59%-16.03% not even 6HKO
+1 LO STAB Technician Bullet Punch=30.05%-35.87% not 2HKO (this is assuming he SD's on the switch).
Lucario:
-1 LO STAB Close Combat=48.37%-57.07%
-1 LO Extreme Speed=21.47%-25.27% (This and the previous added is the worst case scenario, and does not KO)
-1 LO Crunch=21.47%-25.27%
+1 LO Extreme Speed=48.10%-56.79%
so as you can see he counters scizor very well, but with lucario, is a little shakyer, as he can take up to 76.34, however this wouldn't even KO with Lefties recovery (assuming no sand storm), he also is effective as no one sees it coming.
he counters Luke also, as Stone Edge is rather uncommon lately, what with Crunch and Ice Punch being the better options.
almost forgot, naive and Crunch, is to deal with status inducers like D-noir and Cress.
what do you think?
Moveset Name: Neon Tiger
Move 1:Rest
Move 2:Sleep Talk
Move 3:Flamethrower
Move 4:Crunch
Ability:Intimidate
Item:Leftovers
Nature:Naive
EVs:216 Spe/188 HP/108 Def
in a nutshell, he counters Scizor and Lucario pretty well, due to his typing and intimidate.
Speed to outrun Max Jolly Lucario
HP is a Lefties number
The rest in def.
btw i am planning to use him in a team with a spinner so SR is not an issue.
Calcs:
Scizor:
-1 LO Superpower=36.14%-42.66% never a 2HKO
-1 LO STAB X-Scissor=20.38%-23.91% not even 4HKO
-1 LO STAB Technician Bullet Punch=13.59%-16.03% not even 6HKO
+1 LO STAB Technician Bullet Punch=30.05%-35.87% not 2HKO (this is assuming he SD's on the switch).
Lucario:
-1 LO STAB Close Combat=48.37%-57.07%
-1 LO Extreme Speed=21.47%-25.27% (This and the previous added is the worst case scenario, and does not KO)
-1 LO Crunch=21.47%-25.27%
+1 LO Extreme Speed=48.10%-56.79%
so as you can see he counters scizor very well, but with lucario, is a little shakyer, as he can take up to 76.34, however this wouldn't even KO with Lefties recovery (assuming no sand storm), he also is effective as no one sees it coming.
he counters Luke also, as Stone Edge is rather uncommon lately, what with Crunch and Ice Punch being the better options.
almost forgot, naive and Crunch, is to deal with status inducers like D-noir and Cress.
what do you think?
What's the point of using a naive nature? If you really need speed, use timid, a sleep-talker should be able to last long, and a -sp.def nature will certainly not help in this task. About the moves, I would go with fire blast (sleep talk helps with the low PP) and dragon pulse or hp ice for good coverage. Also note that a neutral fire blast will hit harder than a super effective crunch.
The problem with special walls is that every single Special wall in the game does it much worse than Blissey, Cresselia, Snorlax or Tyranitar. What does this accomplish that Blissey does not, besides being slightly better against Fighting users and much worse against Pursuit users? With 252 HP you have less than half the HP of minimum HP Blissey. Minimum defense puts you about twice as high as 252/Bold Blissey (fairly common), meaning you're taking Physical hits only as good as Blissey does. And your special defense is the same base stat, which means you're only taking special hits at best about half as well. ResTalk is worse recovery and moveslot use than Wish/Protect or Softboiled + Support Move. Your attack may be slightly higher than Blissey's special attack, but your movepool is worse.
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