On Cro-Uxie, there isnt much to stop it hitting +6, so even skilled players are totally helpless against it if a few specific pokemon are ko'd. The only true counters to that set are chansey (sort of, can be pp stalled), honchkrow, drapion, absol, spiritomb, Missmagius, and Encore Clefable. Seeing as it is unlikely for the opponent to have more than one dark type, after you kill max two pokemon, cro uxie is home free.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3
- Thread starter Tangerine
- Start date
- Status
One set I've been testing to pretty good success is the following:
Scizor
@ Life Orb
Adament
Technician
IVs: HP: 29, Atk: 28, Def: 28, Spe: 28, SpAtk: 31, SpDef: 31 (HP Elec)
Or HP: 28, Atk: 29, Def: 29, Spe: 28, SpAtk: 30, SpDef: 31 (HP Grass)
Or: HP: 29, Atk: 29, Def: 29, Spe: 28, SpAtk: 31, SpDef: 31 (HP Ice)
Evs: Atk: 180, Spe: 72 SpAtk: 252
Moves:
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Quick Attack
Hidden Power (Electric or Grass or Ice, base 60)
Comment: A very, very strange set at first glance. Why use Scizors crappy base 55 SpAtk AND invest tons of EVs? Well, this spread gives about 209 SpAtk (depending on IVs) and Hidden Power Electric or Grass with Base 60 power (90 with Technician). Why? To decimate Gyarados (dealing 302 to 355 damage, easily OHKOing with Stealth Rocks on max HP, min SpDef) and Swampert (dealing 331 to 389 damage, about 26% to OHKO with Stealth Rocks on min SpDef investment). HP Electric can 2HKO a Skarmory too, and with the given EVs, you outspeed the common defensive version so you can nail it on the switch and finish it next turn. Both super effective HPs can 2HKO Starmie.
HP Ice easily OHKOs Salamence, Gliscor and Flygon but you'll have to catch the dragons on the switch or you'll eat fire.
Bullet Punch and Quick Attack pick off anything standing after the specific Hidden Power.
The idea here is bring Scizor in later than usual, after you know their team well. If you know which counter is coming, use the Hidden Power and destroy it, eliminating what is likely their last Scizor counter and sweep.
Other Hidden Power ideas are Ground (for Heatran, who is OHKO'd with Stealth Rock, assuming it's not packing a Shuca Berry and isn't the Rest-Talk set) or Fire (for Forretress or Scizor), it really depends who your team can take down easily. Note, you don't need the speed EVs if you don't fear Skarmory but don't be afraid to add more speed EVs or even try a different personality to help with SpAtk (for some 2HKOs) if you really fear a counter.
You absolutely need Stealth Rocks and if you have Spikes (Toxic or not) all the better. It's a bit of a gimmick but extremely surprising and effective if you can predict. You can really nail some of Scizor's biggest counters with base 90 special attacks.
PS: Yes, Natural Gift is similar but it's a one shot deal and requires a berry
IVs for Hidden Power can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/technician_hidden_powers
Scizor
@ Life Orb
Adament
Technician
IVs: HP: 29, Atk: 28, Def: 28, Spe: 28, SpAtk: 31, SpDef: 31 (HP Elec)
Or HP: 28, Atk: 29, Def: 29, Spe: 28, SpAtk: 30, SpDef: 31 (HP Grass)
Or: HP: 29, Atk: 29, Def: 29, Spe: 28, SpAtk: 31, SpDef: 31 (HP Ice)
Evs: Atk: 180, Spe: 72 SpAtk: 252
Moves:
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Quick Attack
Hidden Power (Electric or Grass or Ice, base 60)
Comment: A very, very strange set at first glance. Why use Scizors crappy base 55 SpAtk AND invest tons of EVs? Well, this spread gives about 209 SpAtk (depending on IVs) and Hidden Power Electric or Grass with Base 60 power (90 with Technician). Why? To decimate Gyarados (dealing 302 to 355 damage, easily OHKOing with Stealth Rocks on max HP, min SpDef) and Swampert (dealing 331 to 389 damage, about 26% to OHKO with Stealth Rocks on min SpDef investment). HP Electric can 2HKO a Skarmory too, and with the given EVs, you outspeed the common defensive version so you can nail it on the switch and finish it next turn. Both super effective HPs can 2HKO Starmie.
HP Ice easily OHKOs Salamence, Gliscor and Flygon but you'll have to catch the dragons on the switch or you'll eat fire.
Bullet Punch and Quick Attack pick off anything standing after the specific Hidden Power.
The idea here is bring Scizor in later than usual, after you know their team well. If you know which counter is coming, use the Hidden Power and destroy it, eliminating what is likely their last Scizor counter and sweep.
Other Hidden Power ideas are Ground (for Heatran, who is OHKO'd with Stealth Rock, assuming it's not packing a Shuca Berry and isn't the Rest-Talk set) or Fire (for Forretress or Scizor), it really depends who your team can take down easily. Note, you don't need the speed EVs if you don't fear Skarmory but don't be afraid to add more speed EVs or even try a different personality to help with SpAtk (for some 2HKOs) if you really fear a counter.
You absolutely need Stealth Rocks and if you have Spikes (Toxic or not) all the better. It's a bit of a gimmick but extremely surprising and effective if you can predict. You can really nail some of Scizor's biggest counters with base 90 special attacks.
PS: Yes, Natural Gift is similar but it's a one shot deal and requires a berry
IVs for Hidden Power can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/technician_hidden_powers
I like that Scizor idea, it's definitely creative. I would suggest that since Scizor is so desperate for a move slot as it is that you should probably not use both BP and QA. Pick one priority move (probably Bullet Punch for STAB) and add superpower for those steel types that your other moves can't beat like empoleon, magnezone, and Heatran.
yea, i was close to post a similar Scizor with, yeah, Natural Gift ;D
I like the idea of having a real unexpected move to kill the incoming counter easiely.
I just see one problem: If your opponent haven't one Pokemon to get super effective damage of the Hidden Power/Natural Gift, you just waste a move, ton of EVs (in SpA) or, in case of Natural Gift, your item and, of course, even a move slot.
Pecha Berry gives a 60 base power Electric attack.
Cheri Berry gives a 60 base power Fire attack.
Occa Berry gives a 60 base power Fire attack.
Rawst Berry gives a 60 base power Grass attack.
Persim Berry gives a 60 base power Ground attack.
Aspear Berry gives a 60 base power Ice attack.
Wiki Berry gives a 60 base power Rock attack.
are posibilities.
I'll try to create a set focusing on setting up one or even two SDs to go for a late game sweep (@Berry Defensive Spread maybe SD/Natural Gift/Bullet Punch/Quick Attack/Brick Break/etc).
I like the idea of having a real unexpected move to kill the incoming counter easiely.
I just see one problem: If your opponent haven't one Pokemon to get super effective damage of the Hidden Power/Natural Gift, you just waste a move, ton of EVs (in SpA) or, in case of Natural Gift, your item and, of course, even a move slot.
Pecha Berry gives a 60 base power Electric attack.
Cheri Berry gives a 60 base power Fire attack.
Occa Berry gives a 60 base power Fire attack.
Rawst Berry gives a 60 base power Grass attack.
Persim Berry gives a 60 base power Ground attack.
Aspear Berry gives a 60 base power Ice attack.
Wiki Berry gives a 60 base power Rock attack.
are posibilities.
I'll try to create a set focusing on setting up one or even two SDs to go for a late game sweep (@Berry Defensive Spread maybe SD/Natural Gift/Bullet Punch/Quick Attack/Brick Break/etc).
Not really creative, but a lead set I made for Gallade:
Gallade @ Expert Belt
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 152 HP / 252 ATK / 104 SPE
Adamant Nature
~ Taunt
~ Will-o-Wisp
~ Close Combat
~ Shadow Sneak
~ 252 ATK Adamant Expert Belt Shadow Sneak vs 4/0 Azelf:
383 Atk vs 176 Def & 293 HP (40 Base Power): 151 - 180 (51.54% - 61.43%) = 2HKO
~ 252 ATK Adamant Expert Belt Close Combat vs 4/0 Aero:
383 Atk vs 166 Def & 301 HP (120 Base Power): 356 - 421 (118.27% - 139.87%) = 2HKO with Shadow Sneak
Gallade + 104 SPE EVs = 222 Speed
Metagross + 8 SPE EVs = 178 Speed
Swampert + 0 SPE EVs = 140 - 156 Speed
Heatran + 252 SPE EVs + Naive/Timid = 278 Speed
~ Gallade outruns Metagross and Swampert and can cripple with Taunt + Will-o-Wisp.
~ Gallade can survive everything barring an explosion from Heatran and OHKO with Close Combat.
252 SPA Heatran Fire Blast vs 152/0 Gallade:
359 Atk vs 266 Def & 315 HP (120 Base Power): 175 - 207 (55.56% - 65.71%)
Gallade @ Expert Belt
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 152 HP / 252 ATK / 104 SPE
Adamant Nature
~ Taunt
~ Will-o-Wisp
~ Close Combat
~ Shadow Sneak
~ 252 ATK Adamant Expert Belt Shadow Sneak vs 4/0 Azelf:
383 Atk vs 176 Def & 293 HP (40 Base Power): 151 - 180 (51.54% - 61.43%) = 2HKO
~ 252 ATK Adamant Expert Belt Close Combat vs 4/0 Aero:
383 Atk vs 166 Def & 301 HP (120 Base Power): 356 - 421 (118.27% - 139.87%) = 2HKO with Shadow Sneak
Gallade + 104 SPE EVs = 222 Speed
Metagross + 8 SPE EVs = 178 Speed
Swampert + 0 SPE EVs = 140 - 156 Speed
Heatran + 252 SPE EVs + Naive/Timid = 278 Speed
~ Gallade outruns Metagross and Swampert and can cripple with Taunt + Will-o-Wisp.
~ Gallade can survive everything barring an explosion from Heatran and OHKO with Close Combat.
252 SPA Heatran Fire Blast vs 152/0 Gallade:
359 Atk vs 266 Def & 315 HP (120 Base Power): 175 - 207 (55.56% - 65.71%)
Oh right, I totally forgot Expert Belt only applies to super effective hits. I'm retarded.
Bulky setup!
-Psychic/Ice Beam
-Calm Mind
-Reflect
-Rest
Nature: Calm
252 HP/100 SpA/160 SpD
A friend alerted me to the awesome of this set. Basic premise to easily get up to 6 Calm Minds and sweep with your attack. I personally use Psychic, but that does leave me open to Dark types. I haven't tried Ice Beam but I assume it would work.
When you get this in, you'll probably Reflect, just so if the Pokemon they bring in packs pursuit, it'll soften the blow. If you know you don't have to worry about physical attacks, you can go straight to Calm Mind. After Reflect and Calm Mind, not much do anything to this thing. When you do get low on health, Rest, and go back to setting up.
The EV spread is the one my friend told me. I've never bothered changing it, but I might add the SpA EVs to Defense. They were placed there to assure a kill on Infernape, but that hardly ever goes into Cresselia.
As I said, I use Psychic. It does leave me open to Darks, but I pair this with a nice RestTalk Machamp. They complement each other nicely.
Uses of this Cresselia:
- Absorb status
- Serve as a good mixed wall
- Set up and sweep!
Any comments and suggestions would be welcome!
What do the EVs on Cresselia do?
Also, I would recommend Ice Beam, because Psychic, although it gets STAB, hits for Super Effective damage on only two types, Poison and Fighting. Poison types are rare, and most Fighting types don't have business staying in on Cresselia. Ice Beam also lets you hurt Dark types, because without a move to hit them, you're Tyranitar bait.
Also, I would recommend Ice Beam, because Psychic, although it gets STAB, hits for Super Effective damage on only two types, Poison and Fighting. Poison types are rare, and most Fighting types don't have business staying in on Cresselia. Ice Beam also lets you hurt Dark types, because without a move to hit them, you're Tyranitar bait.
^Though Cresselia is tyranitar bait regardless. 844 Atk vs 318 Def & 404 HP (95 Base Power): 181 - 213 (44.80% - 52.72%)
In other words, even at +6 Cresselia only has a measely 19% chance of 2HKOing max hp tyranitar. Not that anyone with a tyranitar is going to wait that long to bring it in. Of course none-boosted Ice Beam does 11.14% - 13.37% (lol).
On the other hand CB TTar has a 73% chance of 2hkoing through Reflect with Crunch against this Cresselia.
Basically all forms of Cresselia are tyranitar bait, except maybe psycho-shift who is still set up bait for Boah and because of the flame orb, is just way to easy to dodge around (like switch in heatran or a special attacker).
In other words, even at +6 Cresselia only has a measely 19% chance of 2HKOing max hp tyranitar. Not that anyone with a tyranitar is going to wait that long to bring it in. Of course none-boosted Ice Beam does 11.14% - 13.37% (lol).
On the other hand CB TTar has a 73% chance of 2hkoing through Reflect with Crunch against this Cresselia.
Basically all forms of Cresselia are tyranitar bait, except maybe psycho-shift who is still set up bait for Boah and because of the flame orb, is just way to easy to dodge around (like switch in heatran or a special attacker).
That Cressy is set-up fodder for Scizor also, so be careful with that.
Personally, I think it needs another attack that can deal damage. If you used physically defensive EV's and added another attack over Reflect, couldn't you do the same thing with more offensive flexibility? Combinations like Ice Beam/Charge Beam which is decent and Psychic/Signal Beam (which I like better here) along with rest and Calm Mind might help your cause. You can't really hit steels with the second one, though.
Personally, I think it needs another attack that can deal damage. If you used physically defensive EV's and added another attack over Reflect, couldn't you do the same thing with more offensive flexibility? Combinations like Ice Beam/Charge Beam which is decent and Psychic/Signal Beam (which I like better here) along with rest and Calm Mind might help your cause. You can't really hit steels with the second one, though.
THE MIXPIXIE (AZELF)
Ice Punch
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Hidden Power [Ground]
IV's: 29/31/31/30/30/31
Life Orb
Naive
168 Atk / 244 Spe / 96 SpA
I was surprised that there was no mixed set for the amazingly potent pixie. As a result, I made my own.
Ice Punch OHKO's Gliscor and Salamence, Thunderbolt OHKO's Gyarados, Flamethrower OHKO's Scizor, and HP Ground OHKO's Heatran. In addition, they provide great type coverage too. Ice Punch and Thunderbolt make a pseudo-Boltbeam combo that is almost never resisted (Lanturn resists it, but it gets hit with HP Ground anyways and it's almost never seen in OU).
Naive is chosen so you gain Speed without sacrificing attacking from either end of the spectrum. In addition, it allows the given IV spread to be valid. This set of IV's yields HP Ground 69 as well as a LO number. The EV's yield 359 Speed, which beats everything it needs to. It ties with neutral-speed Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Crobat, but they usually run +Speed natures anyways. The Attack and SpA are carefully calculated to OHKO the given targets without SR in play.
^I dunno man, you've completely ignored the #1 most dangerous pokemon to Azelf, Tyranitar. None of those attacks will do jack shit to TTar. :/
And don't bother saying something stupid like you can HP Ground it, because TTar's massive special defense lols at most Zapdos set's thunderbolt, which is stronger than your Hidden Power Ground (95 *1.5 > 70*2) and that's with the same base 125 sp.ATK and zappy not devoting evs to physical attack so I know without even doing calcs that HP ground will do pathetic damage.
And don't bother saying something stupid like you can HP Ground it, because TTar's massive special defense lols at most Zapdos set's thunderbolt, which is stronger than your Hidden Power Ground (95 *1.5 > 70*2) and that's with the same base 125 sp.ATK and zappy not devoting evs to physical attack so I know without even doing calcs that HP ground will do pathetic damage.
Cool set. How does it do against stall?
Also, what does blissey think of this set?
I think this set was thought of mixed offensively, instead of something like a wall-breaker.
The point of going mixed is getting past walls. Which that Azelf doesn't do too well.
...this concept idea for a set works with any of the starters, but best with Typhlosion and Sceptile.
Pokemon: Sceptile
Item: Focus Sash
Personality: Modest
Moves:
~Frenzy Plant
~Focus Blast
~Dragon Pulse
~HP Fire
EVs: 255 Spe/Spatk
Technique:
It works best with a weather-support team, I'd first mention.
The idea is that it comes in, uses the elemental hyper-beam to take out whatever its facing... then on the turn in which it's recharging, it gets hit with something and goes focus-sash style... when it's then at 1 hp, activating its low-hp power boost ability. It then has the opportunity to repeat the process for a sacrifice KO of epic power.
(Works better with sunny-day support and typhlosion... making sure no sandstorm is there to ruin your day. Also, obviously not a good combo against things with priority.)
Pokemon: Sceptile
Item: Focus Sash
Personality: Modest
Moves:
~Frenzy Plant
~Focus Blast
~Dragon Pulse
~HP Fire
EVs: 255 Spe/Spatk
Technique:
It works best with a weather-support team, I'd first mention.
The idea is that it comes in, uses the elemental hyper-beam to take out whatever its facing... then on the turn in which it's recharging, it gets hit with something and goes focus-sash style... when it's then at 1 hp, activating its low-hp power boost ability. It then has the opportunity to repeat the process for a sacrifice KO of epic power.
(Works better with sunny-day support and typhlosion... making sure no sandstorm is there to ruin your day. Also, obviously not a good combo against things with priority.)
Yea... no. Elemental hyper beams suck because their respective 1 turn attacks deal more damage over 2 turns. Also, SR ruins Focus Sash.
First off, Focus Sash sucks unless it's your lead, which that lead would be very lackluster. Secondly, something like Energy Ball / Grass Knot would do more damage in 2 turns and a chance of more HP to have at the end of those two turns would be greater. The damage isn't even "epic" at all.
You're also missing one point on the EVs. I also agree with the previous two posters.
THE MIXPIXIE (AZELF)
Ice Punch
Thunderbolt
Flamethrower
Hidden Power [Ground]
IV's: 29/31/31/30/30/31
Life Orb
Naive
168 Atk / 244 Spe / 96 SpA
I was surprised that there was no mixed set for the amazingly potent pixie. As a result, I made my own.
Ice Punch OHKO's Gliscor and Salamence, Thunderbolt OHKO's Gyarados, Flamethrower OHKO's Scizor, and HP Ground OHKO's Heatran. In addition, they provide great type coverage too. Ice Punch and Thunderbolt make a pseudo-Boltbeam combo that is almost never resisted (Lanturn resists it, but it gets hit with HP Ground anyways and it's almost never seen in OU).
Naive is chosen so you gain Speed without sacrificing attacking from either end of the spectrum. In addition, it allows the given IV spread to be valid. This set of IV's yields HP Ground 69 as well as a LO number. The EV's yield 359 Speed, which beats everything it needs to. It ties with neutral-speed Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Crobat, but they usually run +Speed natures anyways. The Attack and SpA are carefully calculated to OHKO the given targets without SR in play.
No STAB? A Psychic / Flamethrower / Explosion / Hidden Power [Fighting/Ground] does a better job of "Stall-Breaking" Ground punishes Heatran while Fighting just hits Tyranitar harder that doesn't invest heavily in HP and SpD. Explosion is a must to destroy Blissey.
Azelf doesnt hit anything that hard with Ice Punch over Hidden Power Ice. I think the best set to run with Azelf is to run.
Shadow Ball/Psychic
Flamethrower
HP ground/HP ICE
Explosion
The item should probably be expert belt as you are more likely to land an explosion on Blissey therefore more effectively wall breaking. EVs are for max special attack with + speed nature so you can outspeed the likes of Latias and so your special attacks pack a punch.
Hey why no STAB?
Well psychic is a probably one of the worst STAB's in the game iit will allow you to hit Rotom-A alot harder something often relied on to counter Azelf in a stall team. Shadow Ball also gives you a reliable option against Latias.
349 Atk vs 296 Def & 364 HP (80 Base Power): 163 - 194 (44.78% - 53.30%) 84.62% 2 hko vs. Max HP Latias with SR in play. Bearing in mind Latias barely runs Max SP.ATK
If you pair this with a Dugtrio you can trap and remove those pesky Tyranitar and HEatran that wall this set if you opt for HP ICE to hit Dragons with..
Shadow Ball/Psychic
Flamethrower
HP ground/HP ICE
Explosion
The item should probably be expert belt as you are more likely to land an explosion on Blissey therefore more effectively wall breaking. EVs are for max special attack with + speed nature so you can outspeed the likes of Latias and so your special attacks pack a punch.
Hey why no STAB?
Well psychic is a probably one of the worst STAB's in the game iit will allow you to hit Rotom-A alot harder something often relied on to counter Azelf in a stall team. Shadow Ball also gives you a reliable option against Latias.
349 Atk vs 296 Def & 364 HP (80 Base Power): 163 - 194 (44.78% - 53.30%) 84.62% 2 hko vs. Max HP Latias with SR in play. Bearing in mind Latias barely runs Max SP.ATK
If you pair this with a Dugtrio you can trap and remove those pesky Tyranitar and HEatran that wall this set if you opt for HP ICE to hit Dragons with..
A mixed Azelf set is already in the analysis, and however, since Tyranitar completely walls more or less every Azelf, also threating it with pursuit, I believe that grass knot shoud be definitely an option on it, considering that it should 2hko even bulky TTars (though you'll have to predict the switch in if it's at full health).
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