New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 3

[Kalypso]

Moveset Name: Offensive Support Zong
Move 1: Trick
Move 2: Hypnosis
Move 3: Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Gyro Ball (?)
Move 4: Explosion
Item: Lagging Tail
Ability: Heatproof
Nature(s): Sassy
EVs: 252/152/8/0/96/0

I've been running this zong successfully, and essentially what it does is manipulate the popular conceptions of the pokemon for a 1-2 turn advantage, which helps me tremendously with my offensive team (2/5 are scarfers, they're all fast).

Trick zongs have a major downfall in that people see trick coming and just use it to wipe your team. They'll switch in their mixed/phys sweeper to take the item, then use it against you later, often giving the zong another choice item (Losing you turns). In the case of Lagging Tail, they A) Never get something they want and B) Always get one of their offensive pokemon crippled. No one switches in a wall vs a Bronzong, and my entire goal is to cripple/kill off their offensive pokemon. Even if I get tricked a choice item from them, I can still make a new move selection next turn. In the case of a choice band, it powers up explosion/earthquake. Also, Lagging Tail does not lower their speed, and hence does not cripple Gyro Ball.

I use Heatproof because no one sees it coming. I have not once been hit with an earthquake before a fire move was first used, and I'll even switch zong in on earthquake users who wouldn't be using earthquake that turn to give them the impression that he's immune. The confusion over his resistances costs the enemy a few turns, which is all he needs to seriously mess up their team.

Zong switches in vs something => They switch something else in, Zong uses hypnosis => They got slept and switched out, whatever switches in gets a Lagging Tail / They tried to kill it with a fire attack and got slept / They tried to kill it with a fire attack and got killed with Earthquake

Pretty much anything that happens with this set is benefitial to my team. He often cripples 1-2 pokemon, kills 0-1, sets up rocks, and then later sleeps another/explodes. Most of the pokemon that would kill him in 1 hit with a fire move fail to, and instead die to Earthquake, or get slept.

He dies slower than the traditional trickzong, has more utility, and is just generally much better for a fast-paced offensive team in my experience. For a stall team, this set would absolutely not work, but in the environment of sweepers I have set up 1 pokemon slept, 1 lagging tailed, stealth rocks set up and a possible pokemon dead from earthquake/explosion is pretty much a dream come true. I always loved zong with my offensive team, but this set just makes it better. What the set hopes to do is confuse the opponent, and it seems to be working quite well.

 

[Virtuoso]

^ I thought of that same Moveset, but I could not find Lagging Tail on Shoddy.

 

[blasphemy1]

Instead of Lagging Tail, wouldn't Iron Ball be better? Perhaps it isn't programmed into shoddy yet, but iirc it does the same thing as lagging tail AND pulls down levitators/flyers. Pretty good imo.

 

[Dark Doom]

Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash nature
80 Atk/252 S Atk/176 Sp

Dragon Dance
Earthquake (edited over Brick Break)
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast

It's basically mixmence with added speed from Dragon Dance AND with the added ability by tricking the opponent to bring in their physical wall like Gliscor or Skarmory only to get it minced with Draco Meteor/Fire Blast. Brick Break's power is also boosted with a Dragon Dance, blowing away any Heatran, Empoleon, Blissey, Snorlax, etc.

 

[Lightsabre]

tbh, I'd prefer Dragonite to run that set. Dragonite gets a phisical fight move that can OKOH said blissey etc, while, iirc, brick break sal does not

 

[Dark Doom]

That is a very interesting point, Dragonite would be able to use Superpower... I'd still like more opinions on this though. After a dragon dance, wouldn't brick break be able to do more though?

 

[Pollux-Castor]

Instead of Lagging Tail, wouldn't Iron Ball be better? Perhaps it isn't programmed into shoddy yet, but iirc it does the same thing as lagging tail AND pulls down levitators/flyers. Pretty good imo.

Before you trick it away Bronzong will not be able to switch in safely to a ground attack. Might as well go with Heatproof with Iron Ball.

 

[Veedrock]

Salamence @ Life Orb
Rash nature
80 Atk/252 S Atk/176 Sp

Dragon Dance
Brick Break
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast

Dragon Dance is almost entirely pointless on that set. "Oh hey, let me raise my attack to use...Brick Break." I don't see what you're trying to accomplish, because Brick Break is not hard to wall, and after Draco Meteor you are forced to get out, wasting the setup and taking even more Stealth Rock damage. The extra speed doesn't help either, as your main targets are all slower than you. Also, Outrage will always do more damage than Brick Break except for Tyranitar and Empoleon. Brick Break does 88.17% - 103.84% to neutral Blissey.

Before you trick it away Bronzong will not be able to switch in safely to a ground attack.

The set has Heatproof anyways.

 

[y2zipper]

On that last Brozong, I like to go Macho Brace because it halves speed. This works really well if you use Gyro Ball.

 

[Dark Doom]

Dragon Dance is almost entirely pointless on that set. "Oh hey, let me raise my attack to use...Brick Break." I don't see what you're trying to accomplish, because Brick Break is not hard to wall, and after Draco Meteor you are forced to get out, wasting the setup and taking even more Stealth Rock damage. The extra speed doesn't help either, as your main targets are all slower than you. Also, Outrage will always do more damage than Brick Break except for Tyranitar and Empoleon. Brick Break does 88.17% - 103.84% to neutral Blissey.

Dragon Dance is the entire purpose of the set. The opponent see DDance and assumes it is an attacker, sending in a physical wall. That's when Draco Meteor or Fire Blast come in. The speed and attack boost are only added bonuses, it is really for the element of surprise.

 

[y2zipper]

Dragon Dance is the entire purpose of the set. The opponent see DDance and assumes it is an attacker, sending in a physical wall. That's when Draco Meteor or Fire Blast come in. The speed and attack boost are only added bonuses, it is really for the element of surprise.

Earthquake is a better option on that, because it gives you neutral coverage (Dragon + Fire + Ground) and is a great physical attack for things weak to it and has a lot of damage output.

 

[familyguyman]

I sort of gimmicky but effective Stalling Cressy:

Cresselia
@ Leftovers
EVs: HP: 252/ DEF: 200/ SPD: 52

Rest
Sleep Talk
Toxic
Psycho Shift

Comment: With Rest and Sleep Talk you have a 1/3 chance (times 85% accuracy) of Toxic-ing, a 1/3 (times 90% accuracy) of inducing sleep (and waking up Cresselia) while keeping Cresselia safe from all harm. This set won't be damaging much but it can Toxic stall anything and help support the team with a timely sleep.

Toxic can be subbed out for a type coverage move or Charge Beam.

 

[Veedrock]

Dragon Dance is the entire purpose of the set. The opponent see DDance and assumes it is an attacker, sending in a physical wall. That's when Draco Meteor or Fire Blast come in. The speed and attack boost are only added bonuses, it is really for the element of surprise.

Fire Blast is standard. So why not slap Draco Meteor over Fire Blast (seeing as no steel is going to switch on Salamence unless he's locked into Outrage), and surprise them that way? It's nice to be surprising, but not when you have to take a turn to set do it and then be utterly useless after it's "discovered."

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

Moveset Name: Offensive Support Zong
Move 1: Trick
Move 2: Hypnosis
Move 3: Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Gyro Ball (?)
Move 4: Explosion
Item: Lagging Tail
Ability: Heatproof
Nature(s): Sassy
EVs: 252/152/8/0/96/0

I've been running this zong successfully, and essentially what it does is manipulate the popular conceptions of the pokemon for a 1-2 turn advantage, which helps me tremendously with my offensive team (2/5 are scarfers, they're all fast).

Trick zongs have a major downfall in that people see trick coming and just use it to wipe your team. They'll switch in their mixed/phys sweeper to take the item, then use it against you later, often giving the zong another choice item (Losing you turns). In the case of Lagging Tail, they A) Never get something they want and B) Always get one of their offensive pokemon crippled. No one switches in a wall vs a Bronzong, and my entire goal is to cripple/kill off their offensive pokemon. Even if I get tricked a choice item from them, I can still make a new move selection next turn. In the case of a choice band, it powers up explosion/earthquake. Also, Lagging Tail does not lower their speed, and hence does not cripple Gyro Ball.

I use Heatproof because no one sees it coming. I have not once been hit with an earthquake before a fire move was first used, and I'll even switch zong in on earthquake users who wouldn't be using earthquake that turn to give them the impression that he's immune. The confusion over his resistances costs the enemy a few turns, which is all he needs to seriously mess up their team.

Zong switches in vs something => They switch something else in, Zong uses hypnosis => They got slept and switched out, whatever switches in gets a Lagging Tail / They tried to kill it with a fire attack and got slept / They tried to kill it with a fire attack and got killed with Earthquake

Pretty much anything that happens with this set is benefitial to my team. He often cripples 1-2 pokemon, kills 0-1, sets up rocks, and then later sleeps another/explodes. Most of the pokemon that would kill him in 1 hit with a fire move fail to, and instead die to Earthquake, or get slept.

He dies slower than the traditional trickzong, has more utility, and is just generally much better for a fast-paced offensive team in my experience. For a stall team, this set would absolutely not work, but in the environment of sweepers I have set up 1 pokemon slept, 1 lagging tailed, stealth rocks set up and a possible pokemon dead from earthquake/explosion is pretty much a dream come true. I always loved zong with my offensive team, but this set just makes it better. What the set hopes to do is confuse the opponent, and it seems to be working quite well.

This set really isn't that different from the Trick Bronzong listed in the analysis. The only thing "creative" is Heatproof, which is already an option. The EV spread is just tweaked a little but you don't mention what those EVs really do.

 

[Aquamentus]

Instead of Lagging Tail, wouldn't Iron Ball be better? Perhaps it isn't programmed into shoddy yet, but iirc it does the same thing as lagging tail AND pulls down levitators/flyers. Pretty good imo.

I think the idea was that since Lagging Tail makes the holder go last but leaves speed alone, while Iron Ball actually lowers speed, Lagging Tail lets Gyro Ball continue to do decent damage after the Trick.

If you want to hit hard with Gyro Ball before Tricking and don't care about afterward, or you're not using Gyro Ball at all, Iron Ball is probably better, especially since you're not losing Levitate by holding it (Heatproof). You'd probably want to use Iron Ball alongside Earthquake to hit random things that end up grounded, especially Rotom and maybe Skarmory, who would love to come in on the usual Steel/Ground/Normal attacks from Bronzong.

P.S. I often Earthquake Bronzongs right away to see if they're bluffing...

 

[Pisti]

Uhhh, with Iron Balls, it lowers your speed so...

Gyro Ball does MORE damage than with Lagging Tail, but then after Tricking, it does the SAME damage, so it's better other than when the opponent outruns you even after getting the Iron Ball.

EDIT: Oh yeah, once you trick the ball it lowers their speed and Gyro Ball's BP...nvm >_<

 

[Kalypso]

This set really isn't that different from the Trick Bronzong listed in the analysis. The only thing "creative" is Heatproof, which is already an option. The EV spread is just tweaked a little but you don't mention what those EVs really do.

There isn't much room for creativity in Zong spreads, I believe I specifically noted that it wasn't exactly novel. It's about as outside the box as anything's gonna be though, and it works, so why not post it :x

 

[Erodent]

"Outside of the box" strategies don't always work well. The Bronzong you listed might surprise an opponent, sure, but once the element of amazement has passed, it becomes as repetitive as any other Bronzong set listed in the analysis. If, on the other hand, you create a unique, viable set that works consisently well, then that might be a consideration...but, as you said yourself, "There isn't much room for creativity in Zong spreads".

 

[the pugilist]

Cresselia
@ Leftovers
EVs: HP: 252/ DEF: 200/ SPD: 52

Rest
Sleep Talk
Toxic
Psycho Shift

I'm not really fond of the fact that this is pretty much a free switchin and/or set up fodder for steel types. Considering some very powerful attackers are steel types (Think Heatran, Metagross, Lucario, Scizor etc), it would be in your best interests to fix this/ include Magnezone support. I would suggest trying the traditional Burn Orb Cress which can at least cripple all sorts of things if used correctly.

 

[mikeeeey]

Knockin' at your door, is a Shieldzor @ Leftovers
Technician
Careful Nature
EV's: 252 HP | 80 Def | 176 Sp.Def

Safeguard
Knock Off
Roost
Bullet Punch

Scizor could already take hits.. with this set, Scizors defenses are far higher than in any standard set.
Scizor can set up the status shield, Safeguard which gives you safety against status. Status is a very important part of the game and by avoiding burn, confusion, freeze, paralysis, poison, and sleep, you could very well gain an advantage in no time. Knock Off is the reason why this set is better played with Scizor than any other pokemon. Steel types have the most resistances (yes it's annoying and way OU but i'll go with it). Scizor is the only Steel type (in OU) to learn Knock Off and unlike Mawile (the only other Knock Off Steel user), Scizor has Safeguard and far better stats. With massive defenses at over 250 each (with the given EV's and max IV's), Scizor will be able to take hits, set up the status shield, knock off the opponents item and inflict a lot of damage with an Attack Stat at nearly 300, even with 0 investment. This is why Scizor is the Perfect Tank to use Safeguard and Knock Off together.
Roost is to heal this Tank after it gets beat down by a few hits.
Bullet Punch is the standard attack on Scizor these days and still shouldn't be overlooked. It gives pretty good coverage with the dark attack even though coverage isn't as big of a concern for this set. The priority matches its low speed and with Technician + STAB, this thing can not only just be a tank, but it can work great as a revenge killer against lots of weakened threats.
​

 

[Arcticblast]

I sort of gimmicky but effective Stalling Cressy:

Cresselia
@ Leftovers
EVs: HP: 252/ DEF: 200/ SPD: 52

Rest
Sleep Talk
Toxic
Psycho Shift

Comment: With Rest and Sleep Talk you have a 1/3 chance (times 85% accuracy) of Toxic-ing, a 1/3 (times 90% accuracy) of inducing sleep (and waking up Cresselia) while keeping Cresselia safe from all harm. This set won't be damaging much but it can Toxic stall anything and help support the team with a timely sleep.

Toxic can be subbed out for a type coverage move or Charge Beam.

With the given moveset, Taunt shuts it down completely.

Knockin' at your door, is a Shieldzor @ Leftovers
Technician
Careful Nature
EV's: 252 HP | 80 Def | 176 Sp.Def​

Safeguard
Knock Off
Roost
Bullet Punch​

Scizor could already take hits.. with this set, Scizors defenses are far higher than in any standard set.
Scizor can set up the status shield, Safeguard which gives you safety against status. Status is a very important part of the game and by avoiding burn, confusion, freeze, paralysis, poison, and sleep, you could very well gain an advantage in no time. Knock Off is the reason why this set is better played with Scizor than any other pokemon. Steel types have the most resistances (yes it's annoying and way OU but i'll go with it). Scizor is the only Steel type (in OU) to learn Knock Off and unlike Mawile (the only other Knock Off Steel user), Scizor has Safeguard and far better stats. With massive defenses at over 250 each (with the given EV's and max IV's), Scizor will be able to take hits, set up the status shield, knock off the opponents item and inflict a lot of damage with an Attack Stat at nearly 300, even with 0 investment. This is why Scizor is the Perfect Tank to use Safeguard and Knock Off together.
Roost is to heal this Tank after it gets beat down by a few hits.
Bullet Punch is the standard attack on Scizor these days and still shouldn't be overlooked. It gives pretty good coverage with the dark attack even though coverage isn't as big of a concern for this set. The priority matches its low speed and with Technician + STAB, this thing can not only just be a tank, but it can work great as a revenge killer against lots of weakened threats.​

This seems like it has potential. Do some damage calcs, though, and back up your claims.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

Knockin' at your door, is a Shieldzor @ Leftovers
Technician
Careful Nature
EV's: 252 HP | 80 Def | 176 Sp.Def

Safeguard
Knock Off
Roost
Bullet Punch

Scizor could already take hits.. with this set, Scizors defenses are far higher than in any standard set.
Scizor can set up the status shield, Safeguard which gives you safety against status. Status is a very important part of the game and by avoiding burn, confusion, freeze, paralysis, poison, and sleep, you could very well gain an advantage in no time. Knock Off is the reason why this set is better played with Scizor than any other pokemon. Steel types have the most resistances (yes it's annoying and way OU but i'll go with it). Scizor is the only Steel type (in OU) to learn Knock Off and unlike Mawile (the only other Knock Off Steel user), Scizor has Safeguard and far better stats. With massive defenses at over 250 each (with the given EV's and max IV's), Scizor will be able to take hits, set up the status shield, knock off the opponents item and inflict a lot of damage with an Attack Stat at nearly 300, even with 0 investment. This is why Scizor is the Perfect Tank to use Safeguard and Knock Off together.
Roost is to heal this Tank after it gets beat down by a few hits.
Bullet Punch is the standard attack on Scizor these days and still shouldn't be overlooked. It gives pretty good coverage with the dark attack even though coverage isn't as big of a concern for this set. The priority matches its low speed and with Technician + STAB, this thing can not only just be a tank, but it can work great as a revenge killer against lots of weakened threats.
​

I think Light Screen is a much better option than Safeguard in the first slot.

 

[mtr]

Well, a defensive Metagross can also set up a Light Screen and has higher base defenses to boot. The only reasons this set would be viable are Knock Off and Bullet Punch, so you might as well have Safeguard to try to make sure that you aren't simply using a worse Metagross.

Really, though, that's an incurable problem with a lot of the original sets for Scizor (like Scarf and stuff). It's just that before Platinum, Scizor was practically completely inferior to Metagross, with worse attack stats, worse defenses, worse movepool, whatever. Bullet Punch is the only reason that it changed the metagame, and many original sets go away from that.

But I might test this out. It looks like it might have potential.

 

[Seymor]

Burnsey

Pokemon Name: Blissey
Moveset Name: Burnsey / Burnbliss
Move 1: SoftBoiled
Move 2: Fling
Move 3: Counter/Seismic Toss/Thunder Wave/Charm
Move 4: Counter/Seismic Toss/Thunder Wave/Charm
Item: Flame Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature(s): Bold
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SpD

Send Blissey in on something that is going to switch, The switch is usually to a physical attacker of some sort or another, Fling the Flame Orb for a 100% chance to burn the target. This set has the advantage of working on clear body Metagross, which CharmBliss cannot. Burnsey is not burned during the fling due to losing the orb before the end of turn burn comes into play.

A burned, life orb, 0 dragon dance Adamant Salamance using outrage will not quite kill this Blissey in one hit, which is an accomplishment I guess (max damage = 209, Burnseys HP = 652). Salamence needs 3 dragon dances to get a one hit kill. More importantly Dugtrio cannot trap Burnsey to death without being countered or burned to death.

Surviving a Salamance switch is not the goal of this Blissey. It just happens to do it. Many of the physical pokemon that come into Burnsey in order to force it out usually end up failing to kill it once they are burned. It comes down to one simple thing, does the pokemon have insane attack (through choice band usually)? It can probably take out Burnsey even when burned. Does the pokemon have a Fighting Type move and decent attack? It can probably take out Burnsey even when burned


I'm having trouble deciding which moves are appropriate for the last two slots. The extra SpD is needed due to the lost of leftovers. This makes any type of direct physical assault a bit lacking due to the lack of SpA EVs. Blissey isn't going to be taking down physical threats like Salamance any way you look at it so she just needs to be able to kill the traditional special threats after flinging the orb off. Charm will prevent pokemon that will love to boost their attack on the free turn they think they are getting from Blissey. Either way the entire set requires prediction and surprise. While the surprises are plentiful, the prediction is up to the user. The stats need a bit of adjustment as it might be possible to fit either calm mind and either bolt or beam, or possible just bolt/beam or something. I could really use suggestions as to the last two move slots.

Major problems with Heracross/Machamp/etc as the burn will boost it's power to obscene levels, so be prepared. The other major problems stems from the lack of leftovers. Specifically, Sandstorm and Hail now hurt.


Sey was not burned in the making of this pokemon.

 

[Veedrock]

You might want to check your 'Mence calcs again. Your max damage is without burn.

405 Atk vs 130 Def & 652 HP (120 Base Power) (burned): 262 - 309 (40.18% - 47.39%)